Guys, Stopping Campus Sexual Assault is on You

The Rape and Incest National Network (RAINN)  reports that 11.2 percent of all college students experience rape or sexual assault while undergraduate or graduate students.

A 2015 survey of women places the number at 23 percent—nearly 1 in 4.

Young men, I need to tell you something, something that maybe your fathers or your coaches or your uncles or your buddies or your action movie heroes never told you, but something that you apparently really need to hear.

I know you’ve been led to believe that when a sexual assault occurs, it’s usually somehow the girl’s fault: the way she dresses, the shape of her body, her flirtatious nature, her mixed messages, her level of intoxication.

I know you’ve grown-up reading and hearing that since guys are really “visual”, that the ladies need to manage that by covering-up and keeping themselves hidden, that they need to drive this whole physical interaction deal—because we’re not capable of restraint in the heat of the moment.

I know the media likes to suggest that when a woman is sexually assaulted, that how she dresses or the way she dances or who she’s dated or how much alcohol she’s consumed is somehow to blame.

And I need you to know that’s a load of garbage.

Stopping sexual assault on campus or anywhere else—is about men not assaulting women. That’s the deal.

Yes, we are visual.
And yeah, we do love the shape of women’s bodies.
We are aroused by their physicality.
Yes alcohol does complicate all of that by clouding judgment.
And our responses to all of that are solely on us—not on them.
You see, we are not helpless victims of our own libidos.
We actually live in our bodies.
We direct the limbs and movements.
We choose what we grab and touch and rub-up against.
Our bodies ultimately do only what our brains tell them to do.
And so guys, sexual assault is not a sex issue—it’s a brain issue.

This is about what we choose to cultivate in our heads and what we choose to do with our hands as a result. It’s about the value we ascribe to another person’s life and about our decency and character and goodness in response to it.

At the end of the day, guys—this is a matter of ownership.

The women you date, those you share classes with and meet on social media, those you pass on campus and hook-up with at parties are not only not property, and they’re not only priceless—they don’t belong to you. It’s really that simple. They are beautiful, specific, never to be repeated in the history of the planet lives, and they merit a reverence befitting that truth.

Women deserve full autonomy over their own bodies. You don’t now, and you never will own a square inch of another human being, and so any part of your actions that breaks the plane of a woman’s body ultimately aren’t your jurisdiction—they’re hers. Yield to her in these matters.

The only thing you own at any given moment, the only thing you’ll ever own—are your body and your choices. That’s why it’s called self-control. This is a poorly cultivated art for us historically, but it’s worth the investment of our time.

I know that’s a rather old-school idea and it isn’t particularly popular or sexy.
It’s not typical pop music fodder.
It’s not something you’ll brag about in the locker room, and it won’t make a good multiplex movie.
It also the place where we move from being men in theory, to men in practice.

True, sincere, decent, mature men don’t rape women—period. They don’t force themselves on or physically intimidate or coerce or take advantage of another human being for their own pleasure.

I’m sorry to have to break this news to you, as I know it’s probably difficult to hear.
It will certainly make life much more challenging for you and you’ll probably have to make some changes as a result, in the way you think and talk about sex. But I also know that these words could alter your relationships now, and preserve your marriages someday. These words can protect women from damage, nurture your character, and shape the campuses and workplaces and communities that other young men will enter after you.

Women shouldn’t have to bear the responsibility for stopping sexual assault. They shouldn’t need to dress differently or carry a gun or take self-defense classes or stop drinking. They shouldn’t have to look over their shoulders or alter their social lives or inventory their dating histories. They shouldn’t always have to account for our propensity as men to be horrible or to take advantage of a compromising situation simply because it presents itself. They should be able to count on better from us. They should be able to count on a baseline of human decency.

Women should be able to walk out every morning into a world where men won’t assault them; men who understand what consent is and why they don’t get to decide for anyone else what that person wants or needs.

That’s the truth today, guys. What you do with that—is on you.

 

 

 

 

 

316 thoughts on “Guys, Stopping Campus Sexual Assault is on You

      • With you, Sandi & James. And ‘Yes!’ to all you wrote, John. Will never understand how anyone could think 45 was close to leadership material after the things he has said – just sinful. Mortified as a parent, female, and human being.

        • Cathy,
          With you, as well as Sandi, James, and John. I am still in disbelief that this self-admitted sex-offender hasn’t been publicly called out, confronted or charged.
          That he is President, I have no words. Relative to John’s post, I can’t help but think about what a horribly damaging example it is that he is known to be a sex offender, no one has done anything about it, and he holds the highest office in the country with complete unaccountability.
          What is wrong with our country that this could happen.

          • Well Ed that’s a long list.

            But the short version is that the GOP has spent the last 40+ years proclaiming itself the party of “Christian family values” but has proven time and time again that claim is only a facade. That they only make that claim in the pursuit of power no matter the cost. And that they’re oh so willing to jettison those supposed principles in that pursuit. Just like they’re willing to deny reality in favor of their self crafted bubble world. When one worships ignorance and fear one makes oneself vulnerable to the predations of people like Trump.

            They have become as malignant as fundamentalist Muslims and they have become as gullible as cult members

          • Yes, indeed, Edward M. I would add another question, what is wrong with our country that there are those who **still** admire him and the band of despicable people he has appointed to positions for which they lack qualifications.

            How can any Christian admire people intent on destroying the planet of which we were made its stewards?

    • “Gropenfuhrer” What a perfect thing to call him.

      Frequently, I read stuff that leads me to believe the Gropenfuhrer has declared open season on women.

    • Although, technically speaking, it should be Gropenführer or Gropenfuehrer if you cannot make the umlaut over the U. However Alt 0252 (on the number pad, not the top row) gets you ü, and finding it elsewhere and copying and pasting works well too.

      Sorry. My parents were/are linguists. It’s a curse.

      • Patricia, I made the umlaut simply by pressing on u until a number of u-options came up in a little thought bubble thingie.

        Missed you. Glad to have you back.

      • Bless your heart Patricia, that would be a curse in a nation that so often cannot tell when to use your and you’re!

        • James, Sandi, Cathy, Gloriamarie, Patricia, Caitlyn Anne, I’m with you all on this. As a man who values and respects the rights, boundaries, and choices of others very highly and has family members who have been violated, I feel that we need to call predation and violation by their names. “Locker room talk” euphemisms only serve to rationalize these crimes and further marginalize the victims.

          As parents, we need to TEACH this, and as a society, we need to call it out when it happens. I can’t believe that we have a President who is a self-admitted, serial sex offender. Why isn’t he in jail? WHY? If you voted for him, you are complicit in allowing these crimes to continue by virtue of the example set by letting THE
          PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA OFF THE HOOK! DO YOU GET THAT? I DOUBT IT.

          • Well said, Edward M.

            There are so many reasons he should be in jail. Emolument, nepotism, tax evasion/fraud, not paying his bills, ties to organized crime, wasting the tax payers’ money on too many vacations in too short a time, sexual molestation of children by entering the dressing rooms of Miss Teen Universe when the girls were changing clothes, sexual molestation of adult women of the Miss Universe pageants for the same reason, rape, fraud of Trump U. It’s really quite the staggering list. And that’s only what I remember off the top of my list. Oh, and housing discrimination.

          • Edward M, I couldn’t agree with you more. But those who voted for him either see it as boys will be boys or they don’t care, or they are like him, so they will never get it. If they did, they would not have voted for him. Peace,

    • It figures that someone would go low and use this as an excuse to further demonize Trump. I was going to credit Pavolovitz for leaving Trump alone, but maybe he knew his sycophants would do the dirty work.

      Sad.

      • What is “sad” Joe Catholic, is that Trump was heard bragging about being sexually aggressive and his supporters laughed it off. Likely the same folks who talk about how a rape victim was dressed, danced or was drinking to excuse away the violation.

        • Even Joe has brushed off Trump’s sexual sins as something that can be forgiven. I’d like to know how he thinks that is possible when T is on record as saying he won’t ask forgiveness because he has done nothing to be forgiven for. Meanwhile, Bill Clinton’s sexual sins remain, in Joes POV, as unforgivable despite all the evidence that Bill has turned his life around.

          Joe’s hypocrisy is blindingly obvious to all except, apparently, himself.

          It’s also a shame that he attempts to detract from the importance of this post to twist it into something else.

          How can he possibly disagree that men need to learn to keep it where it belongs? But then, of course, he is part of the tradition of keeping women in second-class citizen roles.

      • I see you are making excuses for Trump again, Joe. I doubt Trump could find a more loyal man and fortunately for you Trump believes in being loyal to those who are loyal to him. He did give you are job at the White House, right?

      • You know what, Joe, the more I thought about your nastiness above the more I realized something. You have proven you are no one to take seriously.

        What your words tell me about you is that you idolize Trump so much that you don’t care if women are assaulted and raped and why should you? The god of your idolatry assaults and rapes women and you still worship at his altar.

        If you are unwilling to face that violence aginst women is a real issue, then clearly you are not grounded in reality.

      • Joe Catholic,

        If you are really a Catholic.

        I was raised Catholic including 12 years of private Catholic school. Your hatred of anything not pro trump doesn’t mesh with anything I learned in Catholic schools.

        Your advocacy of Trump (or the well coined Gropenführer) is an assault on decency. Why do you troll this non-Catholic blog to spew your Trump Hate? Surely Beitbart or the other “Alt-Right” sites has a forum for your hatred. You should sell your soul there.

        • Again, Joe, how many times have you called Trump out for demonizing others?

          And don’t you think it’s rather hypocritical of you to cry foul about him being “demonized” while you support him despite all his demonizing?

          Better question..do you really think having a self admitted sexual predator as POTUS doesn’t send a message that such behavior is, in some quarters, seen as acceptable?

          No one here, Joe, is holding a proverbial gun to your head and forcing you to participate in this blog.

          • To quote Joe: but maybe he knew his sycophants would do the dirty work.

            Sad.

            There’s a good word for you, Joe..sycophant. You are a sycophant of Trump. So go take a good long look in the mirror before you accuse anyone else of that word, Joe, because your chutzpah is astounding.

            • oh and btw, Joe, I’m not inclined to treat Trump with any grace or respect. For two simple reasons.

              Trump has never treated anyone else with grace or respect..especially not his opponents.

              Then there is the 8 years of all but declared war on Obama that you conservatives waged that Trump had no small hand in. And lets not forget the 40+ years of demonizing of Democrats and liberals by the GOP.

              So, Joe, you have no ground to stand on to complain about any demonizing, real or imagined, whatsoever.

              Perhaps you should have seen fit to apply your standard to you and your own first. Then you might have some right to chide others.

              Alas..you don’t.

              • Trump had Ted Nugent visiting the White House.

                Repeatedly Ted threatened the lives of both Hillary Clinton and President Obama. He also called Mrs. Clinton a “worthless bitch” and he called President Obama a “subhuman mongrel.”

                So, Joe, I have to ask…what was that about demonizing?

        • Dear Teri:

          I tend to give people a good deal of time in which to reveal their thoughts through the words they use. And over time, I’ve come to regard Joe Catholic’s Catholicity increasingly as an open question. You can go to this URL: http://tinyurl.com/kbnzbj9

          The ‘Catholic/abortion/homosexuality’ line looks increasingly like an argument substitute kept in reserve to be employed when facing a barrage of responses.

          I’ve also noted that while some are cited for ‘demonizing’ President Trump with obvious monikers, remarkably little is said by way of reply when I point out that for signing off on illegal and criminal attacks, Mr. Trump — together with all living Presidents, Vice Presidents, Attorney Generals, Secretaries of State, Secretaries of Defense and all Chair persons of the joint chiefs of staff — stand to be arrested, tried for crimes of war against humanity and against peace, and sentenced as were Nazi Party leaders in Nov. 1956.

          To my thinking, such statements are far more egregious than any above posted verbal inventions. Yet more grievous statements seem to get a pass while obvious humor is depicted as demonization.

          Perhaps this will be altered now that the incongruity is duly noted.

          Blessings!

      • We didn’t have to demonize him, he did it all by himself. I didn’t tell him to grab women by their P—-y, he thinks because of all his money he can do anything and you bought it, you voted for it, so you are covered with it. I didn’t mention all the other things he has bragged of doing, like with underage girls. Don’t whine to us because your idol has feet of clay. Obviously you have no respect for women and their rights to say no or yes or you would not have voted for him. There is something about being known by the company you keep. Just saying,

      • I have never referred to Trump as anything derogative other than what I know him to be-a child predator. He made his child rape case disappear before his election through death threats. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-dropped-230770.
        His primary relationship is with is daughter Ivanka, not his wife.
        Child predators are never rehabilitated and do not regret what they have done. They consider themselves entitled to whatever they want. The fact that we have a child predator in the highest office in this land is fearful for some women who, like me, have experienced rape culture firsthand.

    • We’ve sent the message that we tolerate sexual assault and sexual harassment from our President already. Twice, even. In 1992, and 1996. Stop pretending Trump is any different that Bill Clinton when it comes to his treatment of women, just because the later is a liberal democrat. If you didn’t bemoan the awful message sent in the 90’s, you don’t get to bemoan it now. The behavior is unacceptable on both sides.

      • You’re correct. Bill Clinton was a serial womanizer.

        HOWEVER…

        Bill Clinton also faced an impeachment trial for his indiscretions, and was almost removed from office, while Trump’s actions have been explained away as “boys being boys”, “locker room talk”, or, in your case, “Clinton did it first”, as though that somehow justifies his actions. Worse yet, the pepole who led the attack on Clinton, Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh, are themselves serial womanizers. Gingrich even walked out on one of his wives just days after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Is it any wonder that they’re among the first to defend Trump’s actions towards women?

        So, no, Trump and his rhetoric do not get any sort of a pass here. At all. Saying “Clinton did it first!” does not give Trump, or anyone else for that matter, the right to do it second. If anything, if they’re so against what Clinton did over twenty years ago, then that should be an even bigger incentive to not do similar things now!

        Otherwise, they’re all hypocrites of the highest order. By defending Trump in this manner, you’ve revealed yourself as one, as well.

        • Amen, Amen and another Amen. By the way the wife who had cancer was in the hospital when she was notified that the good ole boy was walking. I would like to add that they also blamed Hilary for Bill.

          • Yes, they did. I believe the accusation was that if Hillary was better in bed, Bill wouldn’t have cheated. I also vividly remember people accusing her of being a closet lesbian (as though being a lesbian is somehow an insult. I wear that like a badge of honor!). It was vile.

            • It’s like I told my husband, you can tell what generation it is by the insult. It used to be your mother wears army boots, now he’s gay or she’s a lesbian. Then my grandson the millennial says so don’t you have anything better than that because that doesn’t matter. I mean he has cousins that fit in both categories. Peace.

        • Surely, Caitlyn Anne, being a smart woman, you know that President Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, not marital indiscretion. If he had been honest about his indiscretion he never would have been impeached. Trump may one day be impeached. He may not. His relationship with the truth is not particularly intimate, to put it mildly, so lying under oath and eventual impeachment require no stretch of the imagination to picture.

          As to the rest of you, where was I defending Trump? My point wasn’t that what Trump has done is OK because Clinton did it first. My point is that there are hundreds of thousands of people who claim to be outraged by his behavior, who have given a pass to identical behavior when it appears on their side of the aisle. Some of these folks appear here in the comment thread (or in the by line) on the regular.

          You all attacked me for defending Trump when I did no such thing. Anyone, please, explain how what I said in anyway defended Trump. That you chose to argue a point I never made, instead of the one I actually did, suggests, deep down, you know I’m right. In the past you voted for someone who’s behavior you know has been reprehensible, but because he’ll vote the way you want him to, you’ll look past it. There are an equal number of Trump voters who found Clinton’s womanizing and lying rightly detestable who now don’t seem to find it as big a deal. You all got pretty touchy when all I did was out wrongdoing isn’t exclusive to one side of the political spectrum.

          • But you did not “out” anything Anonymous! No one said or implied that “wrongdoing” was “exclusive to one side of the political spectrum”. No one!

            Sexual assaults and rape happened and were ignored LONG before Bill Clinton was president. Same for politicians being “womanizers”. But both of those things are SYMPTOMS of the societal and religious doctrine of submissive women and men being superior.

            That is why men will kill a woman before giving her a divorce. That is why men can rape their wives. (BTW, that was an accusation Trump’s first wive made). That is why Strom Thurmond had a child with “the help”, that is why the Kennedy’s (such good Catholics) were so notorious, that is why South Carolina’s Governor lied that he was “hiking the Appalachian Trail”, that is why Newt, Hastert, and several others who condemned Clinton so publicly ended up with their sexcapades in the news.

            It is oddly telling that Trump held a press conference to “support” Bill Clinton accusers but all of the women who have accused him of assault were just “liars”.

            The culture of demeaning women is a very, very long one and no party has the high ground. But it is much worse for the hypocrites of the supposed Christian Right Republican Party not to.

      • You are right about the behavior on both sides. Three politicians – Newt Gingrich, Bob Livingston, and Dennis Hastert – served or nearly served as Speakers of the House during the impeachment of President Clinton – all three men experience public sex scandals of varying severity. I guess they forgot the one about throwing stones.

        There is one big difference between Trump and others. His personal claim to fame was being a rich playboy. He has never hidden who he was. He put himself out there for radio shows, tv, newspapers, and magazines bragging of his sexual prowness. His words – it doesn’t matter what they say about you as long as you have a young beautiful piece of ass on your arm.

        He is on record rating women by grade. He is on record discussing sex with his young daughter by his side. He brags about his treatment of women.

        I cannot help but gag when he now pretends to care about women issues or even utters the words.

        • I guess I don’t see the difference between Clinton and Trump merely because one was better at hiding it from the public than the other. They both suck, one just happened to have been audio taped confirming it.

          Not sure where you’re going with Gingrich and Hastert. Gingrich resigned in disgrace under an ethics cloud, and Hastert is in prison, in part due to being a sexual predator. Neither of them were ever elected to office again, not due to a lack of trying in Newt’s case. I have to admit I’m unfamiliar with Bob Livingston. What’s your point?

          Cute comment about a limp knife. Try addressing my actual point about voter outrage and hypocrisy instead of making it about me defending Trump, which, news flash, I didn’t do.

          • Mr. Hutz, My point was I do think there is a big, huge difference with Mr. Trump. My opinion is that Trump the man is not equipped to be President. His behavior is beyond the pale. He cannot be believed because he has 0 regard for the truth. He is 70 years old. His whole life has been about putting money in his pocket. That is his right. He is a wealthy man.

            To me that doesn’t make him smart. There are plenty others who have made more. Even the Republicans admit he knows nothing about policy making. His cures for the ills of this country are a sixth grade sales plan.

            Almost everything he accused Hillary of doing, he does. He does not have this country’s back. He will never admit to making a mistake, constantly takes credit for what he didn’t do, blames anyone else if things turn out badly, bullies and mocks anyone and everyone. That is who he is. He has never tried to pull this country together – just the opposite. He has no moral compass and just doesn’t care. No one held a gun to his head to run for President. Yet, he has been allowed and will continue to be allowed to crap on every norm.

            In my eyes excusing Trump as being no worse than anyone else will always be a limp knife argument. I could go on but even I know I am being tedious.

            Peace

            • I agree again, Joanne! The entire persona, campaign and now presidency of Trump all prove that he is not normal, not presidential, not honest and not a leader. His approval ratings, the lowest in modern history, are that way for very valid, documented reasons. That people choose to ignore that and “normalize” him is on them, not reality.

            • Joanne, I have seen no evidence that Trump is smart. A lot of evidence that he is an abuser, an adulterer, a bigot, a groper, many other things that lead me to believe he is really kinda stupid.

              It is not the act of an intelligent man to enter the dressing rooms of teens and young women.

            • How many times do I have to tell you I’m not excusing Trump? Why are you stuck on that. I’ve made no argument that he’s fit to be President, that he’s a good person, or that I support him. None of what you say about him do I find disagreeable. The difference between me, and a lot of commenters here, is that despite the fact that I’m a conservative, I can admit the fact that my party’s candidate is an objectively awful person.

              I take issue with people who wail with righteous indignation about his behavior, when they do no such thing when that behavior is exhibited by people with whom they are ideologically aligned with. That Trump is a lecherous womanizer is not breaking news or debatable. But if you voted in the past for someone who exhibited identical behavior because he had a (D) after his name instead of a (R), which we as a nation did, twice, you’ve lost the moral high ground to go after people who voted for Trump anyway.

              • Lionel, you assert we’ve “lost the moral high ground to go after people who voted for Trump” if we voted for Clinton. But in truth, when has it ever been an established fact that anyone has to “have the moral high ground” before they assail any politician? It isn’t like Newt had it when he went after Clinton, it isn’t like the Christian Right had it when they went after both Clinton’s for decades either. So maybe you can tell us when this rarefied “moral high ground” was established and by whom?

                And not for nothing, but other than the women making accusations, (the same is true of Trump), when did we hear a tape of Clinton displaying “locker room banter”? When did we hear Clinton publicly comment on a woman’s looks? When did we hear Clinton’s wife accuse him of marital rape? When did we hear Clinton say anything about his sexual exploits and avoiding STD’s was his Vietnam? When did we hear any of the Trump coarse, crude, and crass views on women? There is no way on God’s green earth that Clinton’s lecherous actions were “identical behavior” to Trump’s. AND Clinton has been called to account for much of it, if not in the courts for all of it, certainly in the right-wing media for decades.

                And unless you have known some of us for decades you have no honest claim that we “do no such thing when that behavior is exhibited by people with whom [we] are ideologically aligned.”

                • Sandi, I suspect he thinks we should assail Hillary Clinton for Bill’s sins, after all it is always the woman’s fault. That is where we went wrong.

                  • Yes Kathleen you are right. I do not think there is an accusation that has not been leveled at either Clinton by the same folks supporting and / or defending Trump now. Like I said, there may be ‘high ground’ but they are not on it.

                  • Hillary’s sins are more than enough to disqualify her for the majority of voters.

                    By all means keep getting angry about things I’ve never said. Must make for a fun day.

                    • Lionel, there may have been a day that you could have credibly said “Hillary’s sins are more than enough to disqualify her for the majority of voters” but Trump is now president, so clearly there is nothing credible about such a stupid statement now. He proves every day what a terrible person, president, world influence and representative he is. Whatever you think her “sins” were, she was qualified, capable, and sane.

                • WSell, done, Sandi, brava.

                  I would add that Bill Clinton has apparently cleaned up his act because if he were still cheating, the press would have been all over that. He appears to have reformed and become a faithful husband.

                  There is no similar evidence for Trump. In fact we have it in record that he said he won’t ask forgiveness because he has done nothing which requires it.

                  Yet we all know he has done heinous things which do require forgiveness.

              • Mr. Hutz, I honestly do not want to irritate you but my feelings about Trump have less to do with him being an adulterer and more about what I think of him as a man. I tried to list some of the other reasons earlier so adding to the list would be tedious.

                If Trump had run as a Democrat I would have filed as an Independent and wasted my vote on someone who had no chance on winning. My husband has always been registered as an Independent. I really am a more a middle of the roader on some fiscal issues but lean left on many more social issues. I would never call myself a Republican because I think many of their policies have been failures and have caused this country to go backwards.

                I did vote for Bill Clinton. His adultery was not make or break for me. We have been programmed, I think, to accept this behavior as not as damning as the Bible or the 10 Commandments shows it should be. We also accept that politicians do lie, nowhere near the volume of Trump, but we certainly accept the reality of it. The same with scandalous behavior.

                Hopefully this response makes more sense to you.

                I did vote for Hillary because while she had way to much baggage – some deserved, others undeserved and I also dreaded another 4 – 8 years of the Republicans wasting taxpayer money
                tacked on to the 20 years they have spent making the Clintons and then Obama public enemies #1 and #2 – because, to me, she was the most qualified of the bunch.

                My preference would have been Joe Biden. I did not vote for them but I did think that Bush I and Bush II were fine men. Their presidencies affected me negatively but I still respected them as men.

                Peace to you sir

                • I could have voted for Biden. Or Webb. Or really anyone other than the two we were left with. Except maybe Cruz. That guy is irritating to no end. I wonder if Biden regrets not running, cause I think he’d be president if he did.

                  They all waste our money, though. That trait is shared by both parties. The debt doubled under President Obama. You don’t add as much to the national debt as every one of your predecessors combined by spending wisely and efficiently.

                  • Mr. Hutz, Biden has, just recently, said he regrets not running because he thinks he could have won. Like he said at the time I think the timing was off because of the death of his son.

                    Yes they do all do waste money – the bureaucracy is bloated and does need to be trimmed, logically, (not like Trump wants to do), the Pentagon has “lost track” of 6.5 trillion dollars over 2 decades and now they want to throw more money at the military without correcting their obvious auditing process issue.

                    Peace

                    Obama did double the debt in dollars, but in percentage is was 68% while Bush’s percentage was 101%. Obama was handed a far bigger and costly pile of poop than Bush had handed to him.

                    Besides, part of Obama’s debt you have to attribute to the Republicans for what we now know as playing at policy making for 7 years, blocking anything and everything and holding those ridiculous committee investigations which accomplished nothing but sending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars down the toilet.

                    Peace

                    • If you double the debt in dollars, how can it not be increased by100%? I don’t get that. What are those percentages of? Both Bush 41 and Obama doubled the debt. They both increased it by 100%. Also, pretty sure the deficit went down every year after the GOP won the house. Sequestration had a pretty big role in that.

                    • I see the disconnect. The article rightly points out that the first year of a new presidency is executed under the last budget from the previous administration. Bush doesn’t get credit for running a surplus his first year, since it was handed to him by Clinton. As the numbers from FY17 aren’t complete, as we are only half way through, they aren’t counted against Obama yet.

                  • Lionel, you claim (as many have) that our “debt doubled under President Obama” and you assure us that “You don’t add as much to the national debt as every one of your predecessors combined by spending wisely and efficiently”.

                    Surely you realize that every president inherits our debt from the previous? That makes it a virtual certainty that the debt is going to grow.

                    So using the raw numbers is not fair or correct. What’s important is the percentage change.

                    Under President Obama, the debt increased 70 percent after nearly six years. But look at Reagan.

                    Size of national debt when Reagan took office: $1 trillion
                    Size after six years: $2.3 trillion (130 percent increase)
                    Size at the end of his presidency: $2.9 trillion (190 percent increase)

                    Why does everyone need to keep bashing Obama? As we were told time and time and time again when we mentioned anything Bush had done or caused…he is no longer president.

                    • Why is Obama always blamed when what happened under Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 is ignored?

                      Obama is black.

                    • That’s just it! Obama is a Negro – a half-blooded Negro, but one nonetheless. Therefore, the burden of accountability is higher upon him than Reagan and the Bushes; he’s held to a higher standard. Similar burdens will be placed upon the first female president (technical Hillary Clinton) and the other non-White presidents. I almost dread when the first Hispanic is elected to the U.S. presidency. Accusations of his/her citizenship, as well as voter, fraud will be relentless.

                    • Thanks for the econ lesson. Of course everyone knows that Obama was president for eight years, not six. If I claim that he doubled the debt, arguing that it hadn’t yet doubled three quarters of the way through his presidency is totally irrelevant and pointless.

                      What is it with this group? Sandi Saunders and the Vicious Circle. Sandi or Kathleen or Gloriamarie will build an elaborate strawman, and rail against a statement that was never made. The rest of you will applaud and comment “You go girl!” Do you waive pom poms when you do it?

                      I made the statement that everyone in Washington, Ds and Rs, all waste our money. This is not controversial or untrue. It was also in response to a comment that Joanne made about being tired of the GOP wasting our money, as if they had exclusive rights to that problem. You ladies somehow twist that into an accusation that Obama is to blame and Bush is a blameless saint. It’s amazing how you reflexively turn everything into an attack on your messiah and total absolution of his predecessor, the devil incarnate.

                      Here’s a free English lesson. My quote was, “they all waste our money.” The definition of all is “used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.” Guess who falls under the umbrella of “the whole quantity?” Bush, Boehner, Ryan, Cruz, Pelosi, Reid, Trump, Clinton. All of them.

                      It must be an absolutely miserable and exhausting existence turning everything you hear into something you can take personal offense to and be outraged by.

          • The difference, Lionel, is in allegations versus self confession.

            the difference is between what has been proven and what has been alleged. Notice I have never brought up the fact that there are allegations that Trump raped women nor have I brought up that there is an allegation that he raped a teen girl despite the fact that I loathe Trump with the heat of a supernova.

            There is a reason for that. Because those are allegations…they haven’t been proven.

            You want to use the allegations against Clinton not because they’ve been proven..but because you don’t like Bill Clinton.

            now if those allegations against Bill Clinton had proven to be true you’d have a point. But I have yet to see you or anyone else come up with actual proof.

            now if this was a discussion on Trump having affairs in his history then yes Bill Clinton’s affair with Monica would be a fair comparison. But to argue that an allegation against Bill Clinton is the same as Trump’s own confession is a serious case of apples and oranges.

            • OK, since you seem to think President Clinton is a paragon of virtue and chivalry merely because he was never found guilty of anything, lets use Ted Kennedy as an example. He killed a woman. This is not disputable. He drunkenly drove his car into a pond, and left his female passenger to die, for twelve hours, before he called the police. That’s not an unproven accusation. Mary Jo Kopechne is dead, and Teddy waited all night to tell anyone about it. Yet Massachusetts voters sent him back to the senate for 40 years. True blue Massachusetts, filled with hundreds of thousands of people who despise Trump and abhor his behavior, let vehicular manslaughter slide because Kennedy was a staunch liberal.

              Stop pretending double standards aren’t a thing.

              • Lionel, I don’t think James is denying that there is a “double standard” he is merely denying it is all on one side. Kennedy made a terrible drunken mistake and he met his maker having to answer for it. Clinton made calculating lecherous decisions and he will do the same. But if you think no liberals found either one of them to be wretched, lecherous, men you are wrong. Again, there may be “high ground” but neither D nor R nor I nor L can claim it.

                Go on back to JFK if you like, but the issue remains, you do not have the high ground either.

                • I must have missed where I was claiming the high ground. People here seem to have a knack for arguing the validity of things that were never said.

                    • Sure Lionel, happy to. You said ” People here seem to have a knack for arguing the validity of things that were never said”.

                      So let’s look at things you claimed “that were never said”:
                      “If you didn’t bemoan the awful message sent in the 90’s, you don’t get to bemoan it now”. No one said they did not “bemoan the awful message” and you have no way to know or prove they did or did not, but you hurled the accusation anyway.

                      And you did it again: “I take issue with people who wail with righteous indignation about his behavior, when they do no such thing when that behavior is exhibited by people with whom they are ideologically aligned with” when there is no proof offered or in evidence that any of us did “no such thing” when other scandalous behavior happened.

                      AND then you did it again: “But if you voted in the past for someone who exhibited identical behavior because he had a (D) after his name instead of a (R), which we as a nation did, twice, you’ve lost the moral high ground to go after people who voted for Trump anyway” which first tries to normalize what Trump is, has done and has been accused of and then again makes an accusation that is making an equivalence that is not really true and without any proof.

                      And then there is your: “since you seem to think President Clinton is a paragon of virtue and chivalry” which is not only a wrong accusation it is a totally dishonest accusation.

                      And while I am at it, let’s hit this one head on too: Way to ignore the truth I presented to carp about “Obama was president for eight years, not six” but that does not change the fact that his “was the fifth-largest increase percentage-wise”. Obama ended up with a 68% increase, Bush – 101%, Clinton -32%, Reagan – 186%
                      https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

                      You can claim anything you like, it will still not be fair or correct if it is not fair or correct. Raw numbers, like “doubling” are dishonest.

                      What is it with this group? We are friends, and friends take up for each other, stand with each other and appreciate each other. Got a problem with that? Tough!

                      We make no more straw man arguments than you and those who think like you do. Still want to claim you don’t “rail against a statement that was never made”? Really?

                      Yes, you “made the statement that everyone in Washington, Ds and Rs, all waste our money” but you could not resist throwing in a dishonest dig at Obama. That is gratuitous and will be noticed. You could have left it out but you chose to do it so no whining when I called it out!

                      Both do waste money, but one is more likely to waste it on Americans and the other on the rich, powerful and defense contractor industrial complex. We notice.

                      And speaking of twisting something into something else, NO ONE said or implied Obama was our “messiah.”

                      Here’s a free English lesson for you. When you write something and then add something else, people will likely notice both statements.

                      You tell us, is it “an absolutely miserable and exhausting existence turning everything you hear into something you can take personal offense to and be outraged by”? You seem pretty comfortable doing so.

                    • You need to take more ESL classes. You’ve not mastered it.

                      At your next class, ask the professor to explain the word “if.” Once you grasp it’s meaning, you’ll be able to better understand things. For example, when I say, “If you didn’t bemoan the awful message sent in the 90’s, you don’t get to bemoan it now,” and you were on the fledgling internet in 92 and 96 screaming about the horrible message we sent by electing a serial abuser, my statement would not apply to you.

                      Likewise for “if you voted in the past for someone who exhibited identical behavior because he had a (D) after his name…” There’s that little word again. If (see what I did there) you can’t see that that happens (i.e. The Distinguished Gentlemen from Massachusetts), you and I don’t occupy the same reality. You should also finish the quote. If you did you’d see that I referred to the entire country, not just you and the superfriends here in Pavlovitzland. Stop taking things out of context, Sandi. It’s beneath you.

                      Now, contrast my “if” statements, with this bit from Caitlyn, “Otherwise, they’re all hypocrites of the highest order. By defending Trump in this manner, you’ve revealed yourself as one, as well.” No “if” in that one. A declarative statement with no qualifiers. It’s an obvious accusation that I am defending Trump. Please point to any statement I’ve made in defense of the man. We’ll all die of old age before you succeed.

                      “…since you seem to think President Clinton is a paragon of virtue and chivalry…” This is called hyperbole. Exaggeration for effect. You’ll probably have to take a lot more English classes til they cover such a big word. I don’t recall learning that one ’til high school. The same goes for referring to the former president as the messiah.

                      So you admit they all waste money. Good. We’re making progress. Though if you waste it on the Pentagon, or you waste it on completely ineffective social programs, it’s all still waste. I’d prefer they waste it on neither. Federal and state governments spent just shy of 1 trillion on anti poverty programs last year. That’s enough to give every man, woman and child living under the poverty line $22,000. That’s almost 90 grand for a family of four. Since the poverty line for a family of four is about $25000, that actually would eliminate poverty. Even if you gave every man, woman, and child living in poverty seven grand instead of 22, it still lifts every family in the US above the poverty line, and it would save the government almost 670 billion dollars. That’s more than the federal deficit was last year. I just solved poverty AND balanced the budget. Someone give me an award. Instead we’ve foolishly spent over 20 trillion dollars since LBJ declared war on poverty, and more on welfare than defense in the last 30 years, but poverty is still winning. Waste is waste, regardless of whether it’s billions spent on a fighter plane or a welfare program, or $856,000 to film mountain lions running on a treadmill (yes, we did that). Who cares if it’s spent on something you think is worthy, if it all gets pi$$ed down the drain?

                      In case you’re interested…www.rosettastone.com/learn-english

                    • Lionel, playing semantic games is a terrible way to excuse your own dishonesty. My use and comprehension of the English language is no worse than your own.

      • Funny, would you like to recognize the difference between allegations and self admitted confession?

        Oh yes..the GOP did make allegations that Bill Clinton sexually assaulted women but they could never prove it.

        Trump openly admitted he did. Hell he bragged about it. Then he bragged about purposely walking in on contestants at his beauty pageants while they were in various states of dress/undress…including teens.

        So no, Lionel, not the same at all. but continue with your false equivalency if you insist.

        • So you’d have no problem leaving your daughter alone with Bill Clinton, then? You should start a club. Not sure you’d get many members.

          They both suck, dude. Stop pretending otherwise.

  1. It is the truth and it is apparently not being taught well enough in homes, churches, communities an circles of friends. Accountability matters.

    • Children are helpless. Adult women are not. Taking steps to making being the victim of a crime is always smart. I bet you lock your doors at night. Just because the crime is sexual assault doesn’t mean women shouldn’t take steps to make themselves a more difficult target to victimize. Insisting that it isn’t fair doesn’t make the world less dangerous.

      • *Taking steps to make being the victim of a crime less likely is always smart.

        Jeeze. What a horrible sentence. I should learn to proof read.

  2. John, John, John. I am weeping. OH thank you. Bless you. Bless you. Bless you.

    This so absolutely needs to be said. It needs to be said everywhere, everywhen.

    I was sexually molested as a child by a family member who thought he owned me.

    I was raped as an adult by my evangelical husband who thought he owned me.

    After I divorced him, I went to seminary and dated men who wanted to own me but I would cease to date such people and eventually they married much younger women at the local evangelical college who had been brainwashed to think it was okay for men to own them.

    I know you are addressing men here, and I am not your audience. A similar message needs to be written for women with the aim to liberate them from ownership messages they were raised to believe.

    • I am trying to think what ownership messages I was given. I know what I didn’t own. I didn’t own my body, my feelings, my preferences, or my dreams for my future. I didn’t own an expectation that I was worthy of being loved or respected or valued. What I was given to own was that I was stupid and ugly and hard to spend time with. That made me prime pickings for paedophiles and rapists.

      • I am in a lot of pain today and so might not be speaking as clearly as I would like.

        I grew up being taught my value was in my relationship to various men, my father, my brothers, and eventually, my husband. I was taught that I was owned. This is what I meant when I said “A similar message needs to be written for women with the aim to liberate them from ownership messages they were raised to believe.”

        After I divorced my rapist husband, I went to seminary and heard more messages that the Bible teaches us women that we only have value in our relationships to some man. But it was the early eighties and too many of us women were not taking that nonsense any longer.

        Reading Paul anew, it is clear that Paul was a first-century feminist, although I do cringe at that anachronism because he taught us egalitarianism between the sexes, not patriarchy and hierarchy.

        • Yes Gloriamarie, there can be no doubt that the church has reinforced that submissive role of chattel to women (and the men happy to do so) for centuries.

          I was molested when I was 6. I knew enough to know that if I told on him, my daddy would at least attempt to kill him, so I lived with the shame and lack of understanding for years. I know in my mind, he was sick, twisted and weak but it did not help me any at the time.

          I have not experienced anything but love and equality in my marriage so I cannot fathom the pain your situation would have been. Many of us are carrying some kind of suffering. It just seems to vary by degrees.

          • I am sorry that your father’s tendency toward violence only added to your violation.

            I was with my husband for seven years what with dating, engagement, and marriage. The rape occurred a few times in the last six months. As best as I ever understood, he felt he was losing control of me.

            He was in some men’s Bible study and I used to wonder what sort of bs was being taught in that group.

            One of my college professors and his wife gave me refuge in their home. Guided me to counseling, etc.

      • Oh Patricia, that broke my heart! Yes, sadly that kind of message does set children up for predators. I was (and remain) “ugly as homemade soap”(and “meaner than a striped snake”) but my Granny loved me dearly and my parents did too and that kind of love is so deeply important to self-esteem and empowerment. My siblings and I squabbled but let anyone else mess with us and we were a united front (still are!). I ache for the many that do not have those strong bonds.

    • soooo sorry to hear this , this man needed better leadership and accountability , Knowledge that he is and will have to give an account for his actions to God, and Does Not Know the Bible , A wife is a special, sacred gift from god and should be treated as such. Love her as himself, lay down his life for her, and above all Respect her as God has Commanded .

  3. Thank you John for extremely important message. Throughout centuries the onus has been laid on the woman’s shoulders. Adultery has been ignored with a wink and a nod. You cannot keep acting the same old way and expect different results. Each party has to accept their own responsibility.

  4. 1st , Set Higher Standards
    2nd Greater Punishment
    3rd Better education of why, how, who ,when
    4th Intry level standards each must sign off on and agree to . to start school with easy Expel abilitys for crimes committed.
    5th Stop letting in anyone who cannot understand american laws, adhere to american standards, follow american ideologies.
    One standard that all have been explained in detail before entrance.
    6th make college an achievement , not another party. Stop the Pay to Play standards, and Preferential treatment for MONEY
    other than that there is no HOPE
    until you the managers, directors, leaders set higher achievement standard for accountability , you will never stop this problem. It just gets worst

    • I have a much simpler solution: Keep it in your pants until a woman utters the word “Yes.”

      Learn that. Teach that. Problem solved.

      • You can’t honestly believe that. You think people that commit crime, sexual assault included, were never taught not to? Are people murdered because we haven’t done an adequate job of telling our kids that it’s not OK to take the life of another? Of course not. The vast majority of murderers know full well what they are doing is wrong, they just don’t care. Likewise for sexual assault. The problem isn’t that not enough people hear “No means no!” growing up. We need to stop treating it like sexual assault is somehow different than any other serious crime. It’s not in a category by itself.

        • The thing is, sexual assault is a crime different than any other because it DOESN’T get reported in every single instance.

          Burglary doesn’t result in the victims feeling ashamed. They are outraged. Murder doesn’t result in the family members feeling shame. They grieve. All othr categories of crime are reported.

          Sexual assault,molestation, pedophilia, rape are not reported. These crimes have significant impact upon the victim in a way other crimes do not.

          All you demonstrate, anonymous, is a lack of compassion.

          Please read:

          Rape and Sexual Assault

          Dean G. Kilpatrick, Ph.D.
          National Violence Against Women Prevention Research Center
          Medical University of South Carolina
          https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml

          • “Murder doesn’t result in the family members feeling shame.” This is truly a bizarre reply. Sexual Assault is a violent crime with horrible consequences for the victim, but at least they’re still alive.

            I don’t follow your logic that because they often go unreported we need to tackle the problem differently. You can’t get from A to B, there. Taking necessary steps to reduce the odds of getting victimized is wise, no matter what you are trying to protect against.

            • You don’t understand how rape and sexual assault can be seen as more shameful for the victim than murder?

              Well lets see. There’s morons arguing that the victim of the rape did something to deserve it..that she or less likely he “led the rapist on” or “was wearing provactive clothing” or that her/his “sexual history” means that the rape was really consensual sex.

              And when was the last time you heard of a judge, while sentencing the murderer, praising the murderer as a good person? Because that has happened to quite a few rape victims whose cases was brought to trial.

              • Thank you, James Kessler. Anonymous reply to me was so disingenuous, I simply couldn’t bear it. Thank you for your excellent response.

              • No. I can’t understand why being a victim of sexual assault is more shameful than being a victim of other crimes is used as a reason to not teach our daughters that drinking until they pass out will increase the odds of it happening. Telling women to drink responsibly, lest they lose control and awareness of their surroundings, is not the same as telling them not to wear a short skirt, or go out with their friends. See the below if you’d like a more long winded explanation.

            • Anonymous,
              When I read your posts, both above, there are a number of things that I have a different opinion about. My brother Matt was murdered in his sleep when an insane visitor slit his throat with a butcher’s knife. Not an enemy in the world. My 85 yr. old invalid father was severely beaten and robbed in his home by an intruder with nine prior felonies. My stepsister was serially molested by a family acquaintance as an innocent child. A lifelong buddy of mine was serially sexually assaulted by the adult woman next door. My sister was raped. So was a close friend of mine. Both are intelligent, positive, aware and “unsafe situation” averse women.

              Additionally, a portion of the work that I do involves working with law enforcement agencies and puts me in direct contact with intelligence across the full spectrum of violent criminal acts, along with all of the associated details, dynamics, interview transcripts, and psychological forensics.

              Although this is not the reason that I felt compelled to reply, almost none of what you posted makes any sense from my experience, either personally or professionally.

              The rationale you use to support your opinion is so incredibly oversimplified and completely omits the other 95% of the picture that includes quality of parenting, or the lack thereof (e.g., “I don’t want to deal with it – I gave them the information – they should know right from wrong”), FACT: with the exception of “organic mental illness, DSM-IV”, the progression away from societal norms of accepted behavior and the self-reinforcing consequences that frequently lead to criminality without significant and sustained intervention are almost exclusively rooted in early familial dysfunction, parental failure to establish functional behavior modeling, lack of parental involvement, or parental failure
              to meet basic nutritional, educational, emotional, or social needs of the child. (paraphrased from basic criminal justice standard text).
              In other words, the people you speak of who know it’s wrong but commit crimes “because they just don’t care” almost exclusively get their start in childhood environments that involve some form of parental failure, especially the failure to provide genuine, socially acceptable behavior modeling.

              Sexual violence IS NOT the same as every other form of serious crime. Murder IS NOT the same as violent assault and battery, which IS NOT the same as kidnapping and torture. They are all different from one another, they have different consequences, and they have different social outcomes and different emotional outcomes for everyone involved.

              Focusing on “punishment after the fact” and proposing some system of categorizing violent crimes as all the same by lumping them together arbitrarily, while at the same time vociferously rejecting “out of hand” the notion of at least investigating the necessity of greater effort in changing attitudes from the beginning and possibly PREVENTING a crime in the first place is just outright unbelievable.

              And with regard to your belief that “serious crimes are all the same” and my very personal experiences with my family and friends, I will tell you this. My family has grieved Matt’s murder and we have healed to the point of being able to go on with our lives. We will always miss him and there is still sadness at times, but we can once again feel the other things in life that bring happiness and joy. It took my dad awhile to get through the trauma of having his home invaded and being beaten, but he is okay today and doing fine.

              My longtime friend has never been able to resolve his sexual abuse as a kid. His life is a mess, and he feels no happiness or peace. Prior to seeking help, my sister, stepsister and female friend all experienced varying degrees of emotional problems, pain, shame, and social/relationship chaos for many years. My sister was so overwhelmed by self loathing she almost died from body dysmorphic disorder, directly related to having been raped. Over time, all three eventually sought help and worked their asses off in therapy for years. All are still wounded. One, a lot, and the other two are starting to feel more healed. After thirty years.

              I’m not so sure you know what you’re talking about with respect to how you think we should deal with sexual assault. But, as I said before, I wasn’t prompted to reply to your post because I disagree with you.

              I replied because I couldn’t believe the lack of compassion, or your total insensitivity toward the people here who have experienced being violated.

              • Edward M. You and your family have been the victims of so many tragedies. How wonderful of you to work to make things better. I am sorry for all the pain you, your family and your friends have gone through.

                • Dear Joanne,
                  I admire the way that you express yourself, the rational and balanced approach you demonstrate, and I am always glad when you are here. Thank you for your caring words.

              • Edward M, Thanks friend. As someone who was abused as a child and still carries the scars some 65+ years later, I truly appreciate your attempt at trying to set the record straight. Peace and Love,

                • Dear Kathleen,
                  If I were the only one here I may have let it slide – I can’t believe that accurate information and firsthand experience would change any minds. But I thought of you, Gloriamarie, my sisters (in principle), and others here who would be feeling the twinges in your hearts from that stunningly insensitive and grossly misinformed rant, and I just could not stand by.

              • Thank you, Edward M, for so many reasons but most especially for the last sentence.

                If someone is going to post an opinion, they had better have the evidence, facts, and information to back it up otherwise the level of ignorance is appalling.

                • I don’t need evidence to say that taking steps to make yourself safer is always a smart thing to do. To suggest that’s not true is mind blowing.

                  • The question, Anon, is can you recognize that that isn’t the solution?

                    Or more specifically..that’s it not all of the solution.

                    The idea that women should have to be responsible because we men can’t control ourselves is doubly insulting.

                    • I never said it was the only part of the solution. It’s just the most easily implemented part, and one that is always dismissed. Women shouldn’t have to be responsible for men’s behavior. I shouldn’t have to lock my doors at night, or take everything out of my car in order to leave it in the driveway. I do those things, though, because I know there are people in the world who just don’t care if they do what’s right. The consequences of having my stereo stolen are less than getting sexually assaulted by about a billion orders of magnitude, but there are some who insist we not teach the similar preventative measures. It makes no sense.

                      Stop saying “we men.” I’m never going to sexually assault anyone. With every other crime we are lectured not to impugn a larger group due to the actions of a few people in it. We often take great pains to defend the larger group, rightfully, as not being all bad. Give “we men” the same courtesies you give other groups frequently maligned for the actions of a few.

                    • Well, Anon, do you want to deny that at least some of the time the mindset is “women have to protect themselves because men can’t control themselves”? Do you want to deny that there are people who run with that mentality?

                    • Nope. But just because some men are a$$holes doesn’t mean we shouldn’t advocate responsible drinking. Wisdom isn’t predicated on other people’s opinions.

                • Dear Gloriamarie,
                  Well, you know how I feel about all of the disingenuous agendas, baiting, and bickering that goes on here. But there’s a line at dismissing the injury of others. Are there people that don’t know it’s not okay to march into a synagogue shouting “Oh, quit throwing your WWII history in our faces as a preventative warning – we all know genocide is bad – it seems to us you should have protected yourself better”?

                  • Dear Edward, Yes, I do know how you feel “about all of the disingenuous agendas, baiting, and bickering that goes on here. But there’s a line at dismissing the injury of others.” And I know you k now I feel the same way.

                    I am desperately sorry that you know the truth of John’s words from so much violence to women you love. But I rejoice that you love them and care for them. That is something urgently needed.

                    My father did not believe me that a male family member was molesting them. Christian friends did not believe me that my husband raped me because of their ignorance. The friends who rescued me were eyewitnesses and they defended me. But there were always those who can’t believe rape occurs within a marriage.

                    The bottom line is that rape is a violent act a man chooses to perpetrate upon a woman or girl. It is solely the responsibility of the man to choose otherwise.

                    We women have been speaking up against rape forever and ever and finally, it seems, some men are grasping the principle that men have to change their attitudes, change what they teach boys. Just as John says.

              • I’m truly sorry for all you and your family have endured, Mr. M, but I stand by my statement. Telling people to not put themselves in bad situations is never unwise, and the notion that all we have to do is tell people not to commit sexual assault and the problem will go away doesn’t hold water. We cannot educate away evil. I would think with a crime that has such consequences we would want to do everything we could to diminish their likelihood, but that is apparently not the case. Why is rape the only crime where it is unacceptable to teach our kids to take proactive steps to reduce the chances of it happening ? Sometimes bad situations arise out of nowhere, and there is nothing that can be done to prevent it. Sometimes bad situations arise out of decisions we make. Nothing good ever comes from getting blackout drunk. Nothing. To the best of my knowledge, no one on this page who has been assaulted was unconscious due to binge drinking when it happened, so my stance on this issue doesn’t apply to them. It is not my intention to offend anyone, but I get incredulous when people claim that telling kids to not to willingly and enthusiastically incapacitate themselves is re-victimizing assault survivors, or blaming them for it . It is neither. I imagine you know this.

                This article is about college sexual assault, ergo my comments need to be viewed in that context. It cannot be denied that people in college drink alcohol to the point that they no longer have control, or even awareness, of what is happening to them with unfortunate frequency. It’s not victim blaming to point that out. It is a sad but unimpeachable truth. As I have said before, this does not mean they are asking for it. This does not mean they deserve it. Someone who chooses to smoke cigarettes their entire life doesn’t deserve to have their lungs ravaged by cancer, but we all know that they made it far more likely with every drag they took. Drinking to excess is no different. It increases the likelihood that things will go south and spin out of control.

                Sexual assault on college campuses is a complicated problem, and it is intrinsically linked with drinking. Refusing to tackle it from both ends is counterproductive. Everyone takes steps everyday to prevent bad things from happening. We cannot treat sexual assault as being off limits to this basic act of self preservation and expect the problem to get better. You accuse me of lacking compassion, but as the father of two daughter’s I have a very vested interest in seeing sexual assaults decrease. It’s not compassionate, though, to send people out into the world without equipping them with every tool we can with which to protect themselves. I am not going to rely on other parents teaching my values to their children. A young woman who is passed out and defenseless is always going to be a more inviting target for someone engaging in predatory activities. Always. I will spend every year until my girls move out of the house driving this point home. Getting offended at the notion that our kids can put themselves in bad situations with alcohol, and refusing to suggest they be more careful isn’t helping anyone. It will, in fact, do just the opposite.

      • Agreed. Recent campaigns have rejected the “no means no” message because women may be screaming “no” in their heads, but be so terrorised or pressured or inebriated that the word cannot make it past their lips. The current emphasis is that men can only know that consent has been given when a clear “yes” is heard.

      • Wise that were true, but thats not,
        Accountability, Penalty’s, Consequences for actions, More of NO at a early age. and teaching self control.
        Bible accountability . Gods Punishment for sin, Respect, Unselfish Love

    • I was in agreement until you had to go all nationalist in number 5, like all of the rapists on college campuses are immigrants or something. Nothing could be further from the truth.

      • To quote Patrick: 1st , Set Higher Standards 2nd Greater Punishment 3rd Better education of why, how, who ,when 4th Intry level standards each must sign off on and agree to . to start school with easy Expel abilitys for crimes committed. 5th Stop letting in anyone who cannot understand american laws, adhere to american standards, follow american

        I love it when someone talks about “better education” and then misspells Entry.

        And #5 is completely irrelevent, Patrick. Would you like to stop being a fascist Nazi for one minute? Because at one point, Patrick, someone was saying the same stupid **** about your ancestors that came here.

        *Points at Trump* But we get to expel him right? Because he sure as **** doesn’t follow American law, american standards, etc.

        • oh and joe..before you complain that I’m demonizing Trump again..just stop yourself. If you do I’m just going to tear you a new one for your hypocrisy again. So save yourself the pain.

          • Dear Caitlyn Anne:

            Please, please tell me you mean the website…

            Men are people and have feelings too.
            We want to feel safe when we’re in the loo.

            Blessings!

            PS: I think that the ‘important’ thing is that we put the word ‘American’ in front of everything.

            I’m afraid we’re way past patriotism here. This ‘Americanist’ thing has gone from that to obsession to fetishism to religion.

            We may not concern ourselves with the safety of our daughters, but don’t even think about touching my gun or the war-based policies that fatten my portfolio. Now I lay me down to sleep … America … America … America … America … america … america … amric … amica … amca … zzzzzzic … zzzzzzic

            • I did. That was well played. 🙂

              You’re absolutely spot on about how people value their daughters, and it’s so sad. It’s as though just being female somehow means you’re worth less than men. Don’t touch a man’s guns, beer, or his sports, but if you rape his daughter, somehow she must have been asking for it. And we won’t even get into if she’s trans or gay.

              • If someone raped the daughter of one of my ancestors they would be facing a less than Christian, lead filled, response to the chest or head. I’m not proud of it but that was the way in the Appalachian wilderness long ago.

      • Well thats a hard one. as so many variations today .
        Law, Punishment for violation s
        Better teaching of legal accountability, more documentation of punishment for violations .
        Better education
        Entrance Statements
        signed and agreed upon standards at each year of entry into college.
        upfront crime and punishment class

  5. Thank you for saying so earnestly that which desperately needs to be said and heard. One of the best lessons we can teach our children is self control and to switch places in their heads (what if it were me). I’m genuinely afraid to send my daughter to college because of those decrepit, warped and deviant traditions that’s perpetrated such a preditorial culture.
    You da man!

    • Whatever you do, do not send her to a fundie college (see my long post below), and I would also avoid all colleges in the American South. They are filled with fundie men, many Christian men, whose mindset runs in the direction of Bill O’Reilly’s. I grew up in the American South and went to college there. No offense meant to you or the other ladies here, but “free vagina” is thought of as the best quality bulk commodity (like bags of sand and sides of beef) by college men in the American South.

  6. Very poignant and very concise, well written, thank you! My daughter graduated from high school last June, at that time, 2 of her friends had been ruffied at a concert, but girl friends realized something wasn’t right and 911 was called. Another, one of her closest friends wasn’t so lucky, she was found on a beach by security after she had gone to the hotel lounge with her cousins on vacation. It’s unclear how this happened so quickly, the cousins claim they only turned for a few moments, that was all it took. Luckily she survived her ordeal, but the scars will last a lifetime. These girls were in high school. One of her freshman college friends was also ruffied, but similarly one of her good friends recognized something wasn’t right and 911 was called. Teach you girls to watch drinks from the time they are ordered to the time poured to the time placed in your hand by the bartender when out. Never take a drink from anyone else. Make sure your crowd is of similar mind, take care of each other, nobody else will. Girls shouldn’t have to encounter this but they do. Parents should start early and often with their daughters lest they end up like the one girl whose life was almost taken because they were not prepared. It shouldn’t be on girls and women, but it is, because we are worth it. We are stronger, we are smarter together than alone and we have the most to lose, never let anyone say anything different. I preach this to girls and young women at every chance I get. They are worth it, and often when I tell them, it’s the first time they’ve heard it. We are doing something wrong as a society with our daughters.

    • It is more that we are not teaching our sons what is a proper way to treat women and our screwed up society’s attitude to sexual assault. Women do need to be careful but if that is all we teach we are teaching women how to not be “the one” assaulted or raped at a common college social gathering, which implies that we can’t offer all women the safety they deserve. Also a committed attacker will find a way to make the assault happen to his target.

      It is estimated that the cost of each rape to the victim can be as high as $300,000 over the victim’s lifetime in lost wages and treatment for PTSD and/or depression assuming the victim gets help at all. It is said that if the victim presses charges they are raped by the system. Read this victim impact statement for details:

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/06/04/you-took-away-my-worth-a-rape-victim-delivers-powerful-message-to-a-former-stanford-swimmer/?utm_term=.521c4ba8767f

      • I don’t disagree at all, but while society is starting to think about telling boys this, the young women of today need to understand they are worth taking care of, that was sort of my point. Many girls I meet, I am the first one to tell them, they matter, they are important, their bodies are precious, and don’t allow anyone to abuse it. I fully endorse what Pastor John said, however, our experiences are very recent (and only 1 was even in college yet), so yes, we need in the mean time to enforce in girls the idea they are worthy of any goal they set forth and they do not need to compromise themselves or how to keep themselves safe in today’s High School and College years. You would be shocked how many girls I talk to where this is NOT taught at home, and that is where we are failing our daughters. They ARE worthy of anything they choose. Sorry if it came across as just holding girls accountable, that is not the case. Girls need to know how to keep themselves safe and know they are worth it, and boys need to know they do not own women, drugging or assaulting women is illegal every day of the year, and if they put their hands on a girl, assault a girl, drug a girl, they should spend some time locked up. Our boys should know they are better than that.

        • I agree with you. I think girls have been brainwashed into thinking that unless they are part of a couple they don’t have the same value. So they put up with stuff because they don’t think they are worthy. Peace,

          • I agree. “I need a man to complete me–or else I am not a whole person.” Complementarianism is dying out among the members of the Millennial Generation coming up and probably those in the generation behind it. We will all be better off for it.

            • Amen, my grandson chuckles when I tell his girlfriend that she is worthy whether with him or not. He says, she know that.

      • Robin, I agree with both you and Chris. We need to teach both boys and girls. We need to teach them that they only control themselves, no one else, and we need laws that when someone crosses the line they are held responsible and not victimize the victim again. Peace,

        • I totally agree, especially not victimizing the victim. In the situation we dealt with, it was as bad as the crime because the girl no longer felt she could trust even her friends, most of whom unwittingly or not shamed her so badly she had to be tutored at home the rest of her senior year. So if you can’t trust your friends, who can you trust? Just terrible… She’s had years of therapy.

          Thankfully my daughter handled the situation very well and stood by her even when it was hard (and my daughter was younger than she was by 2 years), the two girls remain close friends and I’m glad my daughter could be that person and still is, I know the topic still comes up, but I do not pry. My daughter sought out counseling from both me and the counselors at her high school so that she could help her and not hurt her as the others had done.

          • Your daughter had a good example, I can tell that by what you wrote. I think perhaps that is the most important thing going. Good on you and your daughter. Peace and Love

            • Thank you Kathleen, your comment brought tears to my eyes. I have worked for years to try and educate all girls and teens I have come across among my travels that they have worth and meaning and are precious. My daughter is just one but there have been many. It’s nice to see another adult figure notice it. Most of these girls have no back up so to speak. I do what I can and pray I’ve done enough to make a difference.

  7. You folks should know that sexual assault on women is almost always the fault of the woman. Visit the counseling office at any Christian fundamentalist or conservative evangelical college. The guy who does the assaulting goes free with no consequences—not even getting kicked out of school. The woman, however, is encouraged to understand that it was all her fault because God made males “unable to control themselves” with sex—and fundie women just have to understand that basic fact of life and live with it. Such B.S.

    The college counselors also instruct the women that they must do everything within their power to forgive their assailant, because Jesus wants her to, and that she needs to do everything within her power to prevent her assailant from incurring negative consequences. Furthermore, the female college student must apologize to her male assailant for causing the attack. Subsequently, the assailant is allowed to follow two feet behind her all over campus each day trying to get another date and otherwise harassing the woman he attacked—with no consequences from the college.

    An excellent example of all that is set forth by a fellow writer of mine (Samantha Field) who was raped by her date at Pensacola Christian College in Florida. You can read all about it in multiple posts at the following safe link. Scroll down after reading the first article:

    http://samanthapfield.com/tag/pensacola-christian-college/

    This is just one more reason, among hundreds of others, why sane American citizens should stay away from Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical churches, colleges, and people. A fundie person or institution in your life is potential bad news in far more ways than just one—and you would be well advised to never fall in love with one of them if you are a woman—especially a career woman. If you, as a woman, are not already brainwashed from birth with fundie B.S., your life will most likely be miserable.

    A good example is Pensacola Christian College

    • This is BS
      It is never the women’s fault
      Take Responsibility for your own actions
      Be Accountable
      Teach boys to walk away
      Say NO
      GET The HELL OUT
      STOP While you can , leave the situation
      Stop cuddling the babies , and teach them to be a REAL man , Respect, Self Control, Accountable for their own actions.
      Payment for what they do.

  8. I have a great way for guys to stop sexually assaulting women: just don’t do it. It’s that simple. Really.

    Before doing something, ask yourself, “does what I’m about to do have the potential to cause lasting physical and/or mental scars to another individual?”. If so, don’t do that thing, and that includes assaulting a woman sexually.

    I had a close friend who lives in Northwest Indiana. In the town of Griffith, there’s a bar that’s owned by a Trump supporter. Last summer, after the Billy Bush incident, they thought it would be funny to put “GRAB ‘EM BY THE PUS*Y” on their marquee. The town eventually made them take it down (after much legal wrangling), but not before it made national news. Worse yet, my friend thought it would be hilarious to put it all over his social media pages, celebrated it as free speech, and had a fit when the town stepped in and people started boycotting the bar.

    He and I are no longer friends.

    This points to a huge problem in our society, that many men firmly believe they should be able to do whatever they want to a woman, whenever they want, with total impunity. Don’t believe me? Look up “men’s rights activism” and read some of what they say. They blame women for rape, they believe they shouldn’t be responsible for any children that result from rape (or sex in general), they believe that paying child support is equal to being enslaved, they literally believe that women are property. It’s utterly vile.

    I’m also a victim of sexual assault, during childhood as well as adulthood. The scars it leaves behind, both mental and physical, are permanent. They may fade, but they never fully go away. It’s not something I would ever wish upon anyone. So boys, if a girl (or guy, if you prefer) says no, she means no. Period. That means stop what you’re doing, hands off, you’re done. No means no.

    • {{{{{{{{{{Caitlyn Anne}}}}}}}}} I am so sorry you are also a survivor of sexual assault. There are many of us telling our stories here.

      I’d like to think that the number of us who have told our stories is support for what John P writes and points out all the more reason why what John says is so very true.

      Yeah. Just don’t. If she doesn’t say “yes,” then just plain don’t.

  9. This is great. A real eye opener. Next you should write one about what black people can do to stop robbery, or what muslims can do to stop terrorism.

    • So, you think it is ok for men to rape women? And apprently you believe that the only people who rob are black and that we haven’t had any white supremacist terrorists.

      If a woman is raped, as I have been, it is because the man forces himself upon her.

      I can see you are one of the people who really desperately needs to hear what John is saying.

    • Mike,

      Your first mistake is implying that only blacks commit robbery. I have a cousin who is serving time for armed robbery. It’s the fourth time he’s been in prison, and his rap sheet is as long as both my arms outstretched. He’s also white. Very white. So, robbery occurs across all demographics.

      Your second mistake is implying that only Muslims are terrorists. Apparently, you’ve forgotten about the IRA, Sinn Féin, the Weather Underground, and all the other white terrorist groups out there. So, terrorism occurs across all demographics.

      Your third, and perhaps most egregious, mistake is your sarcasm. Basically, through that sarcasm, you’re placing the blame for sexual assault squarely on women. That’s wrong. No, we don’t want it, we don’t ask for it. Just because we don’t wear freaking burqas doesn’t mean we’re looking for someone like you to stare at us, catcall us, grope us, or rape us. You don’t get to do that just because you’re a man. No.

      I have a rule on here: don’t insult someone you’re arguing with. I’m suspending that rule. You, sir, are a flaming douchenozzle.

    • Dear Mike:

      Here’s a thought!

      Let’s stop the robbery of the banking/investment/1%/criminal class.
      The US should stop destabilizing Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

      Oh, and if you grab my daughter? I’ll cut off your hand. That’s presuming the doesn’t do it first. Along with whatever other appendages she happens to access.

      Blessings!

      • I have a suggestion, Mike.

        How about John next write one about what whites can do to stop murder, robberies and terrorism caused by whites.

        You’d be fine with that..right?

  10. Thank you for this. I especially like that a man wrote it, because most of the time it is a woman and she is accused of whining. I thought as I read this of the little 8 yr old girl who was molested by her step-father, the 12 yr old girl who was molested by another family member, or the young woman in her first job who was groped by a man in management, or the preachers wife who was groped by men in the congregation, or the older woman who was still being groped by a man in management. All of those people are me and I sometimes wonder had all this not happened, who would I be, because that is who I was meant to be, until these men behaved the way they did. I also thought this should be given to every middle school boy, and then I thought this should also be given to their fathers because boys pattern themselves after the father figure in their lives. Perhaps it should be given to the father when the child is born so Dad knows how to treat Mom and then the child has a good pattern to follow. My sons learned how to treat women by how their Dad treated me and how I would accept nothing but respect. I also think that children are not taught no means no. We were careful when we used no because we knew we could not back down. That they needed to understand that no really meant no. Just some of the thoughts that rattled around in my head as I read this. I thank you, that you as a man have a very clear vision of what it is to be a man. Peace,

  11. Thank you for this John.

    I am not going to argue about Trump. Even those who believed that Trump could make life better never thought the sexual misconduct was okay.

    When I was gang raped at 16 by 7 adult males ,and at 17 gave birth to my daughter as a result, I was told “If you were at home where you were supposed to be, it would not have happened” To this day, ,I still blame myself, because if I had not been a rebellious teenager trying to escape a evangelical, fundamental, independent baptist pastor father, I would have been at home and it would not have happened.. My other parent told me, “well, you knew if you screwed around, you would get pregnant” Till this day, my dad questions whether I was really raped or if that was a lie I made up to cover up getting pregnant out side of wedlock.. All I know, when I stop hearing their voices, I know it was not my fault for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It was not.. and more men need to hear what your saying, and more women need to learn that it is not their fault.. and that no one owns us or has a right to violate and abuse us.

    So again, thank you John

    • It was NEVER your fault! I am so sorry that anyone felt the need to blame. Someday they will have to stand up and be judged for what they did.

    • {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ANGIE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

      I am so deeply sorry that you experienced this horror.

      It was NOT your fault. It was NEVER your fault nor could it EVER have been your fault. Those criminals made a decision to perform a criminal act.

    • I am so sorry, I also recognize the voices of some of the adults in your life. You were never at fault, you will never be at fault. The adults around you were at fault, the rapists were at fault but you, you were never at fault anymore than I was when my step-father molested me. There were people who wanted to blame me an 8 yr old and it took me a long time to be able to say “No, I did nothing wrong, he was to blame and it is on his soul not mine”. I think perhaps the most positive thing we can do is speak up, let young girls know they are not alone and it is not their fault. That is half of the healing. Peace and Love to you, a fellow survivor

    • Angie, I do not even have the words to respond to the horror of your story. The people who should have loved you most and helped you heal seem to have chosen to add to your pain. I am glad you know none of that was your fault, not even a tiny bit! You are a victim of the dysfunction and evil in others. My heart does bleed for you. The sad truth is that many women are violated and many children are not conceived in love. Praying you peace because clearly you already have strength. Thank you for sharing your story.

    • Angie, I am so sorry this happened to you, but you must stop blaming yourself! I’m sure you know this on a logical level, but you must feel it in your heart.

      The fault lies with the men who committed the crime. Every time you block out the noise of the questions, you are doing yourself a favor, I would continue to block it out and seek counseling in a place you will not be judged until your heart no longer feels any level of blame. I wish you peace, healing and many blessings.

    • Dear Angie,
      This really made my heart hurt. I am so sorry that you were raped by those men. I am also sorry that your parents did not support you. None of it was your fault. You’re not at fault for wanting to be away from your father’s toxicity. You’re not at fault for being away from the house. You’re not at fault for being in the place where your attack occurred. It is the fault of the men who attacked you there.

      You are absolutely right, more men of all ages need to hear that message. And, even more men who innately embrace respect for women’s boundaries need to step up and work harder to ensure these values are clearly instilled in the hearts and minds of boys who will become men one day.

      I truly hope that you know that most men are not like those that harmed you. Regardless of any other characteristics, beliefs, or attitudes, most men are not rapists. And by most, I mean the vast, vast majority.

      I also want you to know that among all of the men that are in my family, are my friends, or close acquaintances, there is not one, myself included, that would hesitate for a second to race to your aid if we could have, regardless of the risk. And there are many, many men like that. I hope you understand that I’m not saying that as some kind of defensive or gender-apologetic thing, I simply want you to know that there are so many men that respect and value women. I’m one.

  12. I was hoping that some of you Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical men and women out there might chime in here and tell us in depth about:

    A) How women were created to be helpers for fundie men and how giving you sexual pleasure was the GREATEST HELP God had on his mind when he created women.

    B) I would also like to know more about the great fundie paradox. On the one hand God, hates sexual immorality more than just about any other sin (to hear you talk about it). However, when a woman gets raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by a fundie teenager or man, it is the woman’s fault. Shes incurs the punishment, and the male fundie gets no punishment because he is just behaving the way God created him to be and “he just can’t help himself.”

    Leslie, Anonymous, any of you other fundie toadstools. Belly up to the bar here and explain to us the unfair and unjust treatment given to women like Samantha Field at Pensacola Christian College and so many other fundie colleges. Here is the link again:

    http://samanthapfield.com/tag/pensacola-christian-college/

    START EXPLAINING—and I want to see the Biblical proof texts that condone fundie male sexual assault, say the woman should be punished because it is all her fault, and say the man should get off Scot Free because he is a man.

    I’M WAITING….

      • That business about rice… that’s not a quote from that horrible Brooke Shields movie where she something like 9 and sent to serve the sexual needs of a man? I never saw it, I just remember being horrified by the ads and there was some bit of doggerel about rice in the previews they showed in TV

      • Caitlyn. One of the comments we will no doubt get on this from the fundie “Peanut Gallery” is the following:

        “If you had a Godly worldview—like we do—you would understand our behaviors on these matters. But you do not. Therefore, we cannot possibly explain it in any way you would understand.”

        Talk about a copout!!! Sure. “The fundie boy did not trip on the hiking trail because his boot snagged a tree root in the trail. He did everything right like all fundies do. It must have been the mountain’s fault—we think maybe the trail surface lost its elevation by about 2 feet while he was on it—and it just popped right back into place after he fell. Yeah!!! Yeah!!! That’s the ticket.”

        OR my all-time favorite:

        “Maybe the speed of light slowed down—that would explain it.”

        Maybe the doctor did not give Billy an enema. Maybe little Billy gave the doctor an enema instead. Yeah!!! Yeah!!! That must be what happened!!!! It had to be!!! It’s the only explanation that keeps our inerrant scripture fantasy intact.”

        • One of the verses, lifted out of context and with a long long long tradition of being mistranslated is “wives be submissive to your husbands.”

          Because the Greek was mistranslated by misogynists, the verse gets isogeted to mean that a wife is her husband’s property to do with as he will.

          What gets almost zero attention is that word for love in husbands live your wives is agapeo, the verb form of agape or unconditional love.

  13. Definitely a good lecture by pastor John. Christians parents already teach not to ‘use’ someone in any way, shape or form. We are never to objectify another human being. Ever.

    Unfortunately, as soon as ‘junior’ has a few drinks, his inhibitions & every parent lecture he withstood go out the window.

    [85%-90% of all college sexual assaults are ‘acquaintance rape’ or ‘date rape’. Virtually all perpetrators are men.)

    70% of the perps were under the influence of alcohol.
    43% of the victims were under the influence of alcohol.

    I think I would advise any College Student. Don’t Drink.
    [I attended a private college that banned alcohol/drugs, and students were expelled if they broke that rule. It added greatly to safety on campus & dorm rooms. ]

    • My husband could drink and not have everything go out the window, my sons could drink and not have everything go out the window. That is a cop out. There is never a good reason. If they are truly taught that they have no control over women than nothing could go out the window.

      • It certainly is a cop out. It’ a disgusting cop-out. If junior wasn’t taught to drink responsibly and to treat all women with respect all the time, then the blame for his behavior rests entirely on his parents or whoever raised him.

      • Kathleen. alcohol lowers inhibitions, and is a large factor in campus sexual assault. obviously. [In fact, it looks like it is the biggest factor.] Why not make improvements there? If one less person got assaulted, it would be worth the sacrifice of doing without alcohol on campus. It may even reduce sexual assaults by 50%. A huge victory by anyones standards.

        • Prohibition didn’t work the last time it will not work now. If boys are taught that no is no and that they do not own women, are not above women, are not better than women and that women hold all the rights over their own body that would be far better. I am not advocating drinking but that is still a cop out from where I sit. They need to learn self control, you can not bar alcohol all their lives so they need to start learning how to handle themselves. My boys did not go to a school without alcohol and they didn’t rape anyone, they knew better and they knew they weren’t better than the girls they dated.

          • Something that continually confounds me is that there are seemingly intelligent people who believe forbidding something would ever be effective.

            Give a kid a bike, for example, tell the child “Do not ride your bike on gravel.” What will the urchin do? Ride the bike on gravel. What happens? The bike skids and the child is injured.

            Simply forbidding doesn’t work. But education, teaching responsibility does work.

            Blaming booze is simply a failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions. It’s also a failure to take responsibility for teaching one’s children how to use booze responsibly.

            Forbidding sex by preaching abstinence only ends up increasing the number of teen pregnancies and the transmission of STDs.

            I think abstinence programs are a copout. I think people who teach it are obsessed with sex outside of marriage and yet they know in the back of their minds, that they really can’t prevent people from having sex outside of marriage. So they attempt to coerce and control, rather than educate.

            Here is a link to a peer-reviewed study which proves my point.
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194801/

            • Spot on Gloriamarie, not to mention that in a teen’s mind, “remain a virgin” leads to some unhealthy but creative sexual activity that no parent would consider a better choice. I am not a total prude but when a counselor told a group of parents what abstinence only was leading to with teens, I almost fell off my chair in horror. Ignorance is simply not a healthy situation for young people.

              • It is akin to sticking your head in the sand, with your fingers crossed. I have an acquaintance whose daughter was brought up with the abstinence only mantra, went on a christian only dating site, met some guy and now has a std for life. Didn’t work out with the guy but she now has a constant reminder and her mother is kicking herself for thinking that abstinence only was going to work. It never does.

              • I don’t think I want to ever know what caused you to almost fall off your chair in horror.

                But I think people who preach abstinence need to know.

                When I was in high school, I instigated a campaign for sex education that had a lot of support from students, parents, teachers and we convinced the school board. We were in the middle of the Sexual Revolution at the time.

                One of my fellow students had a baby at sixteen and was forced to drop out of high school. She was cruelly treated but no one said anything against the boy.

                My next door neighbor got pregnant while in college and brought her twin boys to live next door.

                My mother got pregnant at forty.

                I had been sexually assaulted by then by a family member.

                I had a LOT of motivation to instigate a campaign for sex ed.

                • Well, I will just say that teens are practicing a lot of that stuff Wayne goes on and on about to avoid ‘the old fashioned way’ of having sex.

        • Good Morning Leslie m. Hope you are doing well. I do have a differing opinion on your statement. While alcohol can be a contribution factor, rape by its very name is about force, power, and aggression.

          I find it a tad hypocritical when Republicans are just fine with creating rules except when it comes to making money. It makes me think that for some money is more important that God. If all laws worked we would have no reason to have jails.

          It is a fact that the wealthy have many, many more layers between them and the law. One case in fact – the boy was drunk, got in a car, and killed a few people. His defense was he was spoiled and rich. And, it worked.

          Republicans are fine with gutting regulations protecting this earth that God created. Republicans are fine with gutting safety requirements for workers. What are a few deaths or traumas if it gets in the way of making money. Republicans are fine with attempting to gut ethics laws. Republicans are fine with saying you do not have give your client advice that is in his best interest. That is like a get out of trouble free for screwing over someone else card.
          Is it because these laws are not Godly laws in your opinion?

          Republicans are fine with cutting other people’s wages and benefits while Trump is promising big beautiful jobs and everything will be moonbeams and rainbows. Republicans are fine with hurting the bottom of the pile while enriching the top. Government is supposed to be a well oiled machine that functions to serve everyone, not just the few. It needs tinkering, not pounding with a sledge hammer but being careful to protect the rights of the very top.

          Just my opinions.

          Peace

          • My first year of college, I lived in a dry, non-smoking dorm. I smoked like a chimney and drank like a fish, right up until the day I started HRT. Having rules that just say, “No! That’s bad! Because we say so! Don’t do it!” makes kids want to do sotherwise because kids love breaking taboos.

            • The third college I attended, the one I granted the honor and privilege of bestowing a bachelor’s degree upon me, was an evangelical college with a strict no-booze policy. People drank the dorms all the time.

              At my seminary, booze was allowed and then it was banned at the end of my second year there. People still drank.

              It is not only naive and irresponsible to think forbidding something will work, it is also the height of irresponsibility.

          • It is unrealistic to believe you can. This cop out ticks me off. You all can probably tell that by now. We made sure our boys knew what booze could do and that it would never be an excuse for anything. We also taught them from the very beginning that no meant no, not maybe, not you can change my mind, not anything else but no. And that went for anyone’s no. I truly do not believe that children are taught that anymore. I think that it is easier to give in and then they expect that everyone else will give in and give little Johnnie what he wants. It is lazy parenting. That’s my take for what it’s worth.

            • I’m Italian. My grandfather made wine in his basement. We had Sunday dinner with my grandparents every week and everyone drank wine. I too drank it, starting age two, well-watered. I think I was ten or so before the watering stopped but I was only allowed half a glass.

              Somewhere along the line, my parents would give me half a glass of beer when we cooked burgers and dogs in the backyard.

              As a result, the first time I went off to college, I was astounded at the way my fellow students, away from their parents for the first time would drink like fish.

              It had no appeal to me because I had been taught to drink moderately. It was not a forbidden pleasure. Just part of everyday life.

              I’ve never been drunk. Never abused any substances as a result of the Italian way I was raised.

              • I freely admit I drank heavily through college, and even for several years after. A lot of it was self-medication, particularly because I hated the antidepressants I was supposed to be taking. That said, I completely quit drinking for about five years, and when I was able to finally enjoy a glass of wine, it was with a new-found respect and clarity. Since then, my wife and I have been drunk once (it was our anniversary, and we had picked up a bottle of cava [Sierra de Viento, a great sparkling wine with notes of gala apples and a sweet finish], and it just kind of happened…), and I found I really didn’t miss that feeling.

                So, yeah, education and respect. Banning something just makes kids want it more.

    • Dear leslie m.:

      Then there were all the Bob Jones University women who came forward to tell the GRACE commission their stories.

      I made it as far as Angie’s story when it struck me that of all the women whose existence has been negated and violated by this heinous crime, the few who come here have filled the board with heart-rending experiences.

      To proffer simplistic, platitudinous mantras about staying sober and drug free as a substitute for real recognition of the prevalence and insult of a most grievous, cultural wrong does more than an horrific disservice to what these women have borne. This is simply profligate behavior. It is to be lost to every principle — indeed the very premise — of virtue.

      Reading your post, I recalled Hophni and Phinehas who bullied and helped themselves to the women at the Tent of Meeting. Just as Eli offered a faint rebuke [boys, boys, what is this I’m hearing] when justice required a strong rebuke, so you blend drink, drugs and unsupported statistics and serve up this as a proper reckoning of this matter.

      To the women here for whom any sense of a moral universe ‘collapse’ in a moment of time, you owe a free and full confession of wrongdoing.

      Frankly, Leslie m., I’m wondering how you could expect forum participants to regard you to have a solitary shred of human decency.

      Consider your ways.

      • I’ve been sexually assaulted twice, once as a child, and once as an adult. Both times, I knew the man. Both times, he and I were both sober. Both times, it was someone I trusted explicitly. The first time, I couldn’t fight back. The second time, well, he’ll probably never have children as hard as my knee impacted his crotch.

        Every woman I know who was assaulted, their attacker was sober. Some of them had been drinking, but most not.

        These stats are suspect, at best.

        • Caitlyn Anne, Thank you, my stepfather was stone cold sober when he was molesting me from the time I was 8 til I was 12 and learned to fight back. Blaming alcohol is a cop out. I am so sick of it. Why anyone would give these guys a pass is beyond me and another affront to what happen to me and every other woman who has suffered. I suspect that Leslie M is one of the lucky ones and to that I would say “Hurray” but I would add if you don’t know what you are talking about be silent. Peace and Love,

      • Thank you, you made me cry, which is a good thing, Leslie M made me mad, which is a bad thing and you just made it better. Peace and Love,

      • Gdd. uh, for heavens sake, i am addressing a very narrow aspect of sexual assaults on college campuses. I’m not talking about all heinous crimes that ever have been committed . just the ones that John P was addressing in his topic. [college campus ‘aquaintance-rape’ where the victim knows the attacker in a social context. ] Again, not all assaults are in that category, just 90% . Which, you must admit, is a lot.

        Staying sober is most certainly a wise decision for young people at college. It increases their odds dramatically for not being sexually assaulted. To say i have no human decency is mean. I would never negate someones horrible experience of being a victim of a savage crime. Obviously!! I couldn’t even bring myself to comment on angie’s trauma, or the other ladies here. It’s too painful for me to even address it. That’s not the type of crime I was addressing. It’s my wish that all rapists spend at least 10+ years behind bars. Also, I want more community support & law enforcement support for any women that needs to report a rape (obviously!) so that the criminals are can be brought to justice & be put behind bars where they belong. Stay safe ladies. Buy pepper spray. Learn Self defense. Stay with a buddy. Carry a weapon.

        • Dear leslie m.:

          That wasn’t the confession/request for forgiveness that is required. Please provide it now.

          Waiting on you.

        • So… live in fear? Screw that. I have a better idea. Teach men and boys that women aren’t objects, that we’re their equals, and that committing a crime like rape is just plain wrong. Even better, we should show men and boys just how awful it is by exposing them to the stories of survivors. Just a thought.

          In the mean time, I’m going to keep refusing to live in fear.

          • Attention, strong women and compassionate men here.

            Are you as astonished as I that people writing here are unable to accept the truth of what John has written in this post?

            Are you as astonished as I that there are women who are unable to accept what John has written?

            Are you as astonished as I that there are otherwise seemingly intelligent people who fail to shout Amen to every word here?

            To me that reeks of something quite poisonous in the what people are taught about women.

            My upstairs neighbors literally broke in the door of my apartment because I was screaming so loudly as my husband raped me. “Stop. Stop it. It hurts. You’re hurting me,” I shrieked at the top of my voice.

            My husband thought he had the right to use me whenever he wanted. He didn’t see me as person but something to be used. He wasn’t like that when we were dating, engaged and in the first years of our marriage. But afer he started to go to some men’s Bible Study, he changed in his treatment of me, and ultimately, forced himself on me.

            So what vile, despicable thing was he taught about women and marriage and being a husband?

            Something poisonous and I betcha it is still being taught.

            • ((((((((((Gloriamarie)))))))))) No one should have to live through that. No one. I am so, so sorry. 🙁

              I had a friend who, a few years ago, was a victim of spousal rape. I think hos leg finally healed recently…

                • Yeah, I understood what you meant. LOL

                  A couple of years ago a paranoid schizophrenic off his meds assaulted me outside the Rite-Aid Pharmacy. I struck him between the legs with my cane, he went down. I got into my car, locked it, called the police, and then insisted that he be taken to County Mental Health for a 5150 instead of being hauled off to jail.

                  When the ADA contacted me and asked if I wanted to press charges so he would go to jail I said I wanted him in psychiatric treatment. So that’s the way the case was handled.

                  I stand firm that the mentally ill should be treated, not punished. Our jails would be less crowded.

              • Yeah, I agree. But more women experience that then we will ever know.

                My point, though, was not what I experienced but to ask what had he been taught.

                Because I have the impression from what certain people are saying here, that that same poison is till being taught.

            • Oh yes it is still being taught. That would be women aglow who are subservient to their husbands because Eve was bad, Adam was good and led astray, therefore we women need to know our place beneath the boot of some man. I think I got it all there. I have fought that nonsense all my adult life. I am equal to any man. What drives me to distraction is the fact that women are peddling this nonsense, and I say Shame on them, that makes them complicit. Peace,

              • A lie based on a faulty reading of the Bible. It is astonishing to me to think that there are people who think the first chapters of Genesis are history. They are part of the Wisdom Literature of the Hebrew Scriptures and as such are not historical events.

                This is an example of what I wrote about the other day (and apparently no one read, LOL) that human beings thought differently before the Age of Reason.

                Before the Age of Reason, people knew that Wisdom Literature was not to be taken t face value but had a much deeper meaning that was mythos, mystery. The mythos tried to communicated the mystery.

                “Myth in the Hebrew Bible is a complex and controversial topic, depending on how one defines myth and sometimes on one’s religious orientation. In everyday usage today, myth carries a meaning of something untrue, a fable, a fiction, or an illusion. That usage has a long history, traceable back to certain Greek philosophers. Anthropologists and historians of religion, however, use the term “myth” with a quite different meaning. For them myth refers to a traditional story, usually associated with the time of origins (e.g., creation or some important institution) that has paradigmatic significance for the society in which the story is operative. In this latter meaning, myth is characteristic of every traditional society; some would argue that myth continues to be operative even in modern, scientific society, camouflaged under other terms, including science itself (e.g., the big bang theory). Persons who hold that the Bible has been infallibly revealed by God and those who consider myth as something untrue may well find it offensive to posit that myth is present in the Bible. By contrast, those who see myth as one of the ways that a traditional society expresses it most profound truths may find inspiration in seeing biblical narratives as myth.”

                http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195393361/obo-9780195393361-0125.xml

  14. I will tell you a Vision that I have. Perhaps your website could encourage it.
    I believe if a MANS MARCH happened it would change the opinion of Men worldwide.
    I believe the 1000’s of Men who are good fathers, workers and respectful even with their own human faults that we all share – Women and Men.
    These Men will march because they are not Pedophiles, rapists brutalizes, over simply abandonment men to responsibilities.

    I would think if Men who have respected and fulfilled the story of men in a positive way deserve to March to show the wide World there are terrific Men out there who never receive the respect that they have enjoyed while respecting the role of Men on Earth. Organize this March which they deserve as gratitude. Stop concentrating on the pricks and recognize True Men. Enough is Enough

  15. For someone to sexually assault another human being (doesn’t matter the gender), that person must be mentally ill or just plain evil. But, getting back to your point about stopping it? Start carrying a gun AND USE IT!! Anyone who thinks assaulting another person in this way is remotely acceptable deserves to die, and die painfully! Start shooting at the crotch and don’t stop until you reach the brain.

    • Please get psychological help stat. A desire to do violence is a desire to do violence, be it rape or murder and if you think a rapist “must be mentally ill or just plain evil” then what does that make someone who recommends “shooting at the crotch and don’t stop until you reach the brain?”

    • Paul. Good idea. Carry a firearm. I don’t own a firearm. But my Dad taught me how to use one. As a teenager, he also taught me Self-Defense, and quite a few other safety tips. Don’t park in a dark garage. Check behind your car before you get in it. Check the back seat of your car. Don’t tell strangers you’re alone… etc., etc.

  16. Another note for “those” guys out there. Poignant story in the Book of 2 Samuel; regarding Amnon and Tamar, after violating her…

    “Then Amnon hated her with very great hatred, so that the hatred with which he hated her was greater than the love with which he had loved her. And Amnon said to her, “Get up! Go!”
    2 Samuel 13:15

    If you disrespect women, you’ll end up hating and reviling the very thing you desire. And you leave women “nowhere to take their shame”; it becomes internal. I know.

  17. Right off the bat, I’m a Father who will be sending my Daughter to college in 28, or 40 months. She is debating taking a year off between High School and college to travel the Globe. One or two years after that, I will be sending my Son to college as well. I’m looking at this problem from both sides.

    I find it truly abhorrent people think I have to lecture my Son to NOT be a rapist as if his normal upbringing wouldn’t educate him to I) respect women as equals, II) know drugs, alcohol and hormones are no excuse for bad behavior and III) rape is WRONG.

    Strangely, my Daughter knows the exact thing things yet no one feels the need to have me to lecture her to not rape men on campus despite ~5.4% of college men being victims of sexual assault.
    Is it because the numbers are too small to matter? Is it because the victims are men? Is it because you wrongly believe the aggressor is always a man?

    ***

    Now, let’s go over the numbers:
    In 2016, 11.7 million women will enter higher education compared to 8.8 million men. 11.2 ~ of just female students ~ would mean 1,310,400 sexual assaults over a four year period, or 327,600 per year.

    According to the U.S. Department of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Survey there are only 237,868 sexual assaults in the ENTIRE COUNTRY per year. That would MORE than double the number of sexual assaults.

    Up that figure to the 23% and you get 672,750 sexual assaults against college women per year. That is 2.82 times the national total … for just colleges.

    Does anyone else see the disconnect? The accusations are not sustainable. If they were, what would it say about our society if we let this go on ~ sending our daughters, sisters, mothers, girlfriends and friends into such a physical and emotional meat-grinder?

    Or, are people playing with the numbers and definitions for dramatic effect?
    The answer too often is … ‘but most sexual assaults are not reported!’
    Yes. I agree. The problem is – THEY ARE NOT REPORTED!
    Oh, and if you follow the RAINN numbers … women between 18 and 24 are actually SAFER on college campuses than their non-collegiate sisters ~ 20% less likely to be victims of sexual assault.

    The numbers make no sense.

    ***

    The true sickness of this approach is it attempts to teach perfectly healthy young men they are all potential rapists – indoctrinating them to fear themselves. It treats them as if they don’t already know rape is a horrific crime. It treats them as if they haven’t have access to social media for the past two decades.

    In turn, it removes all responsibility from women. Not because they ‘dress for it’, ‘were asking for it’, but because it excuses female hormones, drinking and bad behavior while holding men completely responsible for theirs. How is that equality?

    ***

    Ownership of women … in the Western World … in the 21st century? Okay, beyond 50 Shades of Grey (which was written by a woman and driven by a female fan base) and some wacky fundies, no sane Western man thinks he ‘owns’ a woman. Even in the BDSM community, ownership is something given, not something taken – and it can be retrieved at any time.

    I’m sure there are obsessive-controlling partners, but they come in both genders with the appropriate pitfalls and dangers. It is hardly a male domain anymore if you are living in a land where the principles of Western Liberalism holds sway. Furthermore, modern metropolitan police forces actually specialize in these sorts of criminal cases ~ stalking and harassment. We are way past blaming the woman for what she was wearing, drinking, or where she was at.

    The problem is any guy who really thinks he deserves to own a woman, isn’t going to give a damn about this article. He is already an aberration, knows it and doesn’t care. This does nothing to address that mindset except to say ‘gosh, you’re bad’ and since he doesn’t respect mainstream male opinions anyway … which argues women ARE equals … ARE’NT property … and shouldn’t be victimized … which you have totally ignored.

    Instead, you have insinuated most men are in fact like him – the monster who sees women as ‘less’, thus subject to their will and predations. If it wasn’t for you valiantly running around and reminding them not to rape, they’d be more like the monster, eh? You even attempt to make men less confident in themselves ~ the ever-potential rapists ~ as opposed to those who are on guard for the actual monsters who do victimize others. Great job.

    ***

    Here are four clues how this article could have been salvaged.
    One: “men” who plan to rape women on campuses don’t give a crap about the above warning. They don’t respect women and most likely never will. They will rape because they are monsters. Worse, this article does nothing to defend women from such monsters, or encourage normal guys to be on the lookout for such predators.

    Second clue: drunk people won’t be able to benefit from this lecture either … because they will be drunk – male, or female.

    ‘Better yet’, it does nothing to encourage women to NOT GET DRUNK. It does not encourage them to travel in groups and look out for one another when going to clubs and parties ~ you know, things which would actually make them safer.

    Third clue: as a general rule, don’t drink something a stranger hands you and don’t leave your drink unattended. It is a common sense rule and a lot more useful than browbeating young men into not doing something they already know is wrong.

    Fourth clue: since guys going to college in 2017 already know rape is a horrific crime, this article misses a golden opportunity to encourage them on the proper behavior when encountering women who are incapacitated/inebriated.
    If you are unsure if they are truly drunk, or not, assume they are drunk and act accordingly.
    Don’t leave them unattended and try to locate a female friend of theirs to take care of them.
    Don’t let them walk off with a total stranger.
    Don’t let them attempt to drive home.
    Again, things which would keep them safer and might even save their lives.

    ***

    My rules for both kids when dating in college are pretty simple.

    A) When alcohol comes out, there can be no sex.

    B) ‘No’ means ‘no’. It is not a game. It is not ‘cute’ to use it playfully. It is a STOP sign – go no further.

    C) If sex becomes an option and it becomes ‘yes’, ‘yes’ then ‘no’ – stop, back off and call it a night. Cool down. If your date repeats this, call it off, delete their number from your mobile devices & don’t return their messages, or e-mails. You are at university for an education. Let them ruin someone else’s life.

    Harsh? Yes, but all too often all it takes is an accusation of a sexual assault to destroy a person’s educational career, if not their entire life.

    ***

    And finally, a note about President Trump.
    Did he talk smack? Yes.
    Did that lead him to raping anybody? No.
    ‘Bizarrely’ plenty of men and women realize the difference between what he and millions of other men have said and how it does NOT translate over to sexual assault of any kind. By all means, continue to beat this ‘dead horse’.

    • James, great comments, and lots of thought. Your ‘rule A’ is kind of a mind-bender. ‘When alcohol comes out, there can be no sex.’ Because, that’s what often leads to sex, because inhibitions are lowered x2, and sexual desire increases, x2. At least that’s how it worked back in my day! not trying to be funny about a serious subject.

      • The ‘alcohol = no sex’ rule is because of the codified rules of consent have become so strict on college campuses so, for their sake, better safe than sorry. Like most mantras, the more you have to repeat it, the more likely it is to stick ~ or so we hope. 😉

        There are a few other rules including:

        Nothing which you ever do, or ever happens to you, will ever make us ashamed of you … except becoming a Mime (Father only – I’ve got a thing against Mimes).

        Call us ‘whenever’. We won’t mind driving halfway across the State at 2 a.m. to pick you up if you feel drunk / sick / abandoned / what-have-you.

        If a partner ever says ~ “if you love me, you’ll do this” the response is “if you love me, you won’t make me” ~ every time. True love is not a tool of coercion.

        “But [insert pet name], I don’t like the feel of a condom” is responded to with “it is the feel of your hand, or the condom” because both STD’s and pregnancies can be forever.

        ***

        FYI, the wife and I are not ‘friends’ with our kids. We are the Parents and they are the Children. We simply acknowledge there will come a time they will move out and on with their lives and have been trying to equip them mentally, spiritually, physically and financially for when that happens.

        When they get out of line, we drop the hammer down … though that doesn’t happen much anymore – thankfully. The biggest thing is they feel free to discuss with either one of us what is on their mind, free of condemnation. It is a Big, Brave, New World out there for them.

        • I’m going to directly quote your statement, just to make sure I have it correct:

          “The ‘alcohol = no sex’ rule is because of the codified rules of consent have become so strict on college campuses so, for their sake, better safe than sorry. Like most mantras, the more you have to repeat it, the more likely it is to stick ~ or so we hope”

          Okay.

          Are you daft?

          Those “codified rules” you’re so nonchalantly bitching about are there because girls are sick to death of guys taking advantage of us and getting away with it, because all the guy had to say was, “she was drunk, and she seemed to be enjoying it”, and if, per the rape kit at the hospital, there was *ANY* alcohol in your system, the guy would get away with it. The D.A. wouldn’t even bother to file charges.

          So yes, the rules of consent have changed, because girls are sick of date rape, something you seem to have no problem with, you asshole.

    • James Dosher, since this blog host and those here are so woefully inadequate by your standards, maybe you should start your own blog and be that fount of all that wisdom you appear to think you are.

      • Dispute, factually, what he said. Make the case that you are right as well as he did, instead of just telling him to leave.

      • Ms. Saunders, if Pastor John wishes this to become an echo chamber he will let me know. Until that time, when I find fault with an argument, I will challenge it. In this case, I did, in fact, challenge the data … with data.

        The numbers don’t match up and numbers are the crux of the ‘rape culture’ argument. If 1 in 4 college women are suffering sexual assault in US colleges today we are suffering a rape epidemic and a culture of denial.

        I challenged that. The numbers offered to support the 1 in 4 don’t make sense compared to national figures. Having refuted both the 11.2 and 23% figures, I went on to challenge the idea average young men, and the way they are raised, are the problem here.

        “Young men, I need to tell you something, something that maybe your fathers or your coaches or your uncles or your buddies or your action movie heroes never told you, but something that you apparently really need to hear.”

        ‘… something that you apparently really need to hear’ … which only makes sense if you go with the 11.2%, 23%, or 1 in 4, but which makes NO SENSE if you look at overall violent crime statistics … which tell us even if ‘fathers, coaches, uncles, their buddies, or action heroes’ aren’t telling our young men these things, they are figuring it out anyway => Rape is WRONG.

        Outside of a few fundamentalist sects, no male well-adjusted graduating high school male thinks they can ‘own’ woman. They already know rape is wrong ~ a very horrific crime. They don’t think a woman is ‘asking for it’.

        Court cases for the past two decades have drilled this into their heads as has mass media. TV and media has exposed them to rape, rape victims and rape survivors. The revulsion our society holds toward rape and rapist is ever-present.

        Then this article comes out and tries to tell them ~ “Hey! You haven’t learned a damn thing. You are all potential monsters who could slip up at a moment’s notice and become rapists” … thus filling them with self-doubt and self-loathing.

        I protested against that negative message.

        For future reference; I most often approach blog posts on this site from a Libertarian/Right perspective. I’m bi-polar, so if I do get ‘snarky’, please call me out about it. I’ll apologize. If your sole protest is that I protest … perhaps you should get your own blog, invite me to it then ban me once I try to post ~ in protest.

        • You can refute the numbers all you want, it doesn’t change them. The Department of Justice, local, state, and federal law enforcement, the CDC, and several other advocacy groups are in agreement with these numbers.

          Yes, it is an epidemic. No, boys are not taught that rape is wrong. My own father even taught us that if a woman is married, that it’s the man’s right to do as he pleases with her (which is why my mom left him at one point, prompting him to change his stance).

          Just take a look at the “Men’s Rights” movement, and the garbage being spewed by them. Look at the literally thousands of YouTube videos from so-called pick-up artists. This isn’t just common, it’s worsening.

          Feel free to keep denying. Those of us who have lived through it, or have friends or family who have lived through it, know the truth.

          In fact, if you have any female friends, ask them if they’ve ever been assaulted. The number who say yes will probably shock you.

          • Good points, Caitlyn Anne, I would like to add that I am offended by James Dosher’s stance on behalf of every one who has ever been used or abused sexually by anyone ever. This minimizing it says to me that he does not see it as wrong. He can deny it all he wants but when you start justifying and minimizing another persons experience you are complicit with their rapist/abuser. So I will pray for him, that no one he holds dear ever loses their power. I also suggest that those of you don’t know what your talking about should just shut up. Peace and Love,

          • Ms. Anne … this is the ugliest side of this issue – women ARE being sexually assaulted. I’m not denying it is happening in the least. What I am arguing with is the approach this blog post takes is not just INEFFECTIVE, it is deceptive.

            It is ~ “we can all lecture young men on how BAD sexual assault on college campuses are and they will miraculously all not become rapists and thus save women from being sexually assaulted” … then congratulate us on what a great job we’ve done.

            Should I be quiet when I feel this is hollow and false?

            Which is it?
            The U.S. Department of Justice’s National Crime Victimization Survey says there are only 237,868 sexual assaults in the ENTIRE COUNTRY per year.

            If 23% of women are suffering sexual assault some time during a four year stay at a college that would equate to 672,750 sexual assaults against college women per year ~ on just college campuses!

            Worse, what wasn’t even reported was RAINN’s own findings that non-college attending women aged 18 to 24 were at even MORE risk of sexual assault than their college-attending sisters.

            What is going on here?

            “The Department of Justice, local, state, and federal law enforcement, the CDC, and several other advocacy groups are in agreement with these numbers.”

            They are in agreement? No, they are not. Their numbers are in denial of one another. You cannot have both 237,868 sexual assaults nationwide according to the DOJ and 672,750 just on college campuses according to RAINN happening at the same time.

            I didn’t make either of those numbers up – the DOJ (2012) and RAINN (2016) did. If you are worried about me using different years … according to RAINN, the number of sexual assaults over the past decade have been in DECLINE which has somewhat been compensated by the increase in overall female college enrollment.

            I am not denying a single offered fact. The facts are denying the facts. I was merely pointing it out.

            ***

            I certainly don’t believe women aren’t being sexually assaulted on college campuses. They are. Right down the road from me some enterprising college students at NCSU developed a nail polish which women can use to determine of their drinks had been ‘roofied’ ~

            So … hmmm … that would suggest both roofies exist, they are a problem and there are guys using them on girls at parties to – RAPE them … and some other guys realized this was wrong and did something about it to help make women safer at parties.

            Guys know that some guys are scumbags. The blog-lecture won’t make then not be scumbags since they already know what they are doing to women is wrong – and they don’t care.

            Instead of telling ALL men they are potential bad guys because some male authority figure in their life might not have given them the above lecture, why not equip them with the tools to spot predators in their own ranks?

            For pity’s sake, please don’t go off on locker room talk. I’ve said virtually everything Trump said on that tape and I’ve never raped anyone. I’ve heard dozens of guys say that and they never raped anyone either.

            If you want to censor speech … you may want to consider the reality you want to censor speech and go from there.

            ***

            Also, I am not a MRA. Not only am I happily married to a woman who wouldn’t put up with that crap, I encourage both my children to become married when they are ready – pretty much the opposite of a MRA.

            I do know about MRA’s and feminism and a dozen other fanatical devotions as I’m a hack writer.

            While I expect the 42 year old, triple-divorced, bitter & “blameless” misogynist on the MRA sites, I was taken aback by the 18 and 16 year old boys who have already give up on women and even the pretense of a positive male-female relationship.

            Not only do they do they lack a good male role model in their lives, they don’t have a good female role model either. They are the other casualties of acrimonious divorces and broken homes.

            They despise the mother who raised them and take that distrust into their high school dating lives. One, or two mishaps and they are spouting the MRA line … and I’m left thinking what the Hell went wrong?

            They still know sexual assault is wrong, the rules of consent and who strict college campuses are … but they’ve lost all respect for women as worthwhile life partners.

            What doesn’t help is the 1 in 4 figure which is both constantly used yet so easily challenged and the basic and persistent push that men, and men alone, are responsible for this ‘rape epidemic’.

            These kids don’t care things were grossly unfair for sexual assault victims in 1980. They care that today if they are both equally drunk and they have sex, he is automatically the rapist and she is the victim … yet women and men are supposed to be treated equally?

            They care about the fact if they are charged with rape their name gets in the news. Even if the charges are later dropped, the internet ‘hit’ follows them forever.

            They care that sexual assault charges are too often ‘click bait’ while retractions are buried on ‘page 8’ of most search engines.

            They have never developed empathy for the opposite gender and with thousands upon thousands of women shouting to the the rafters about ‘rape culture’ & ‘rape epidemic’ you have expended zero empathy toward them.

            How can you expect anything except bitterness to grow in their hearts? And if you don’t care about what grows in their hearts … well then, congratulations on creating yet another young MRA-advocate who believes women only care about women because apparently that’s all they ever see them do.

            • So just to get it right, because women don’t like being fondled, catcalled, taken advantage of, treated like playthings, objectified, treated like our self-worth should be in direct correlation to what men think of us, havr gained an actual sense of self respect, and generally being regarded as “less than”, men and boys are pissed off? Put yourself in our shoes for just a moment. Imagine having to deal with all the garbage we have to deal with. Imagine having men leer at you constantly. Imagine getting on a crowded train at the end of a long day and having some random guy feeling your butt or your breasts. Imagine every time you walk down the street, guys whistle and say lewd things to you. Imagine having a friend of yours try to force himself on you, reporting it to the police, and then having the police put the blame on you because you’d had a glass of pinot noir an hour beforehand and could have been leading him on because you were wearing pajamas, then threatening to charge you with assault because you defended yourself.

              Live through that. I dare you.

              Then you can lecture me on why women are so awful and why you have mommy issues.

              • I did.

                I wrote a story about it called ‘One in Ten’ under my handle – FinalStand starting back in 2014. It has eleven chapters now though I wrote the first chapter to be a ‘stand alone’.

                Read it if you dare. It is free.

                It is NOT a MRA story.

                It is NOT a story meant to invoke sympathy for men who get raped.

                I wrote it in order for men to understand precisely what it is for women to go through the as
                the experiences of a rape survivor – from the perspective of a male rape survivor living in a society where women hold all the cards.

                Strangely enough, men do get a ‘pat on the ass, or package’ occasionally. Sure, there are laws against it, but they are never enforced. The women don’t even see it as doing something ‘wrong’ ~ it is just something ‘that happens’.

                I tried to access every trope, every horror story passed on to me over the year in the media and by friends from their personal experiences – all I did was switch the genders. I wrote it because rape has consequences for the victim – the survivor.

                They don’t ‘get over it’. They are never the same. No one ‘loves it’. Suddenly, when those thoughts are rolling around a guy’s head, it becomes something real men can find association with.

                I do use the term ‘MRA’ – it stands for a terrorist organization.

                If you don’t want to access the site for any reason, contact me and I’ll send you the story. If you don’t trust me for any reason, I could forward the tale to Ms. Amalfitano and have her send it to you if she is amenable.

                ***

                FYI, I don’t believe women are awful. I believe we are equals thus equally bad and good. Gender only divides us if we let it.

                I was stating the opinions I noted on actual MRA sites I’d visited and I was dismayed by the voices raised against women, turning individual bad personal experiences into horrible generalizations about females as a group.

                Trying to explain to angry young men that just because their girlfriend of a year has cheated on them doesn’t mean all women will cheat is harder than it looks. They are angry and feel betrayed plus there are plenty of voices insisting “all women are alike”.

                Finally, I am coming at this as a Father of a Daughter and a Son and I want to protect them both. To think I would sacrifice my Daughter’s safety for my Son’s is insane. She is not only just as much my flesh & blood as my other child, she is bisexual and an LGBTQ+ advocate.

                She wants to be an Accounting Major going to the University of Austin which is half a continent away … so, I’m already thinking about her ability to get a Concealed Carry Permit and the hundreds of hours at the range to make sure she knows what she’s doing.

                Before that, she and two trans friends want to travel to Europe ~ I’m trying to talk them out of avoiding Russia ~ and ending up in Japan as they take a year off of school.

                I don’t think they are safe and I’d think that if the facts said the rates were 30%, or 1% ~ because I’m a father and if the victim is your child, ‘one’ is the only number which matters.

          • Thank you, Caitlyn Anne, for this exellent reply. Facts are facts. Every law enforcement agency affirms these are the facts.

            To dispute them is like saying the earth doesn’t revolve around the sun.

        • James Dosher, the facts are clear that over and over the FBI and researchers admit that rape is an egregiously under-reported crime to law enforcement so just like the gun statistics, they can never be where you hang your argument due to that truth.

          Clinging to only the law enforcement statistics is what will indeed cause the issue to continue to be swept under the rugs, victims browbeaten into not making a case out of it and the stigma and victimization to continue. For a father, that should be an especially bitter pill, not one you should push.

          This is what you should worry about for your daughters, not what statistics assure you.
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2015/06/12/1-in-5-women-say-they-were-violated/?utm_term=.6675a653cf06

          • Right off the bat …
            “victims browbeaten into not making a case out of it”. Who does that anymore? Since 2000 all major police departments train how to properly handle a sexual assault case and that does not include brow-beating the victim.

            Since 2012, colleges and universities have been stumbling over themselves to kick out anyone who ‘might’ have done anything wrong … and now they are facing law suits over it.

            The push has been toward ALWAYS believing the victim and thus we ended up with Virginia v Rolling Stone fiasco. In that case, the ‘victim’ was clearly lying … but the damage was done … to both sides.

            So, if none of the figure are legitimate, what do we use for statistics?

        • James Dosher, nice dodge but the issue is not about wanting the blog “to become an echo chamber”. It is about folks like you who under the guise of a “challenge” tell him how to write it. Crass behavior at best.

          I am not sure who made it your job to “find fault” or attempt to correct it. But is you want that kind of power, start your own blog, get your own audience and live happily ever after.

          And no sir, you did not simply “challenge the data”.

          According to many young women, who should know, unless they are lying, there is a ‘rape culture’ and women (even some men) are suffering what feels like a “rape epidemic and a culture of denial” and you just added to that denial.

          Apparently there are graduating high school males who think they can ‘own’ a woman. They apparently do not all “already know rape is wrong ~ a very horrific crime” and many do seem to think a woman is ‘asking for it’ or that they are “owed”.

          Stories of this kind of assault are in the news too often for that “past two decades” to have truly “drilled this into their heads” and mass media is as guilty of objectifying women as you seem to think they are at warning them.

          I don’t know how many young men read this blog but you give him entirely too much power and young men no self-esteem if this is “filling them with self-doubt and self-loathing”.

          You “protested” by re-writing he message. Do you enjoy having that done to you?

          Have no fear, I am not shy about calling anyone out. I will never invite you to my blog.

  18. James, you are very passionate about this and I respect that. John did write in the first paragraph that he was talking to those whose fathers or coaches might not have told them these things.

    My husband and I raised 4 boys. We certainly never sat them down and told them we hoped they didn’t grow up to be rapists. Boys and girls learn how to treat each other from the way their parents treat each other. We are our children’s first and longest teachers. We show them the difference between right and wrong. We tell them how we expect to be treated and we show them how we treat others.

    Maybe in today’s world parents are so involved, maybe with themselves, their work or something else some, not all, are not very good teachers. There is an abundance of divorces, leaving children missing the constant visual of how the opposite sex engages with each other. Children are exposed to drug use, abuse, molestation which clouds their concept of healthy relationships.

    I certainly do not know how to start fixing all that. Most and I repeat most parents do the best they can and their children grow up just fine.

    When I was growing up I wouldn’t have thought twice about taking a drink from someone I knew. This is a new and scary phenomenon and both sexes need to take that seriously and I think it should be repeated often.

    All of us who at one time were teenagers and then have raised teenagers know the bizarreness of the teenaged brain. They think they have all the answers and are indestructible.

    I have never been molested or raped. So many on these pages have shared their stories and I cannot even imagine what they have gone through. Horrific things do happen to innocent people.

    Anyway, good to see you commenting here again. I hope all has been well.

    • Having dated two women who were raped (before I met them) … it is tough because ‘a guy’ who wants to do ‘something’ and yet there is nothing you can do in the classic, macho sense. You learn to be patient, listen and provide what comfort you can. Mainly – you learn to listen because talking about it is very tough. You can’t even appear to be judgmental, or the trust can vanish in an instant.

      I was truly stunned to learn how much the women blamed themselves. To me, they were clearly the victims of both physical and emotional abuse yet the whole episode had become twisted up inside them.

      “What had they done wrong?”
      “What had they done to deserve it?”
      “Why had they left themselves so vulnerable?”

      It pretty much confirmed in my mind there is good and evil in humanity. Sometimes, some really freaking evil people exist and it isn’t as if they walk around with placards indicating who they are. My kids are going out into that world and there won’t be anything more I can do for them …

      Those experiences showed me sometimes victory is ‘today’ and not ‘forever after’. Sometimes victory is convincing a friend it is okay to cry ~ you aren’t going anywhere. Sometimes victory is ‘no dreams/no nightmares’. Sometimes victory is seeing the realization in their eyes when they accept you see them as a wonderful person ~ scrapes, scars and all.

      Mostly it is knowing the victory must be theirs and at best you can be an ally in their on-going struggle.

  19. Please stop with the 23 percent of women will be sexually assaulted in college nonsense. The most violent city in the country, per Forbes, is Detroit, where slightly less than 2,200 out of 100,000 people are victims of violent crime each year. Just over 2% of the population falls victim to violent crime. For simplicity’s sake, let’s assume female victims are present at the same rate they are in society as a whole, or about half the population, so half of those victims are women. This means about 1% of the women in the most violent city in the country will be victims of a violent crime.

    I think we can all agree that rape is a violent crime. The US Department of Justice does, anyway. In order for the 23% statistic to be true it would mean the average college campus is more than 20 times more violent than Detroit. And that’s just rape. It doesn’t even factor in other violent crime on campus, like assault or robbery. Does anyone actually believe that’s true? Honestly? Even if the figure is just 11%, that still makes college roughly 1000% more dangerous than the most violent place in the country. Still pretty far from the realm of possibility.

    It does no one any good to continue repeating these figures. Stop doing it just to score points and virtue signal. It accomplishes nothing.

    • Did you ever stop to think that the vast majority of rapes go unreported? Did you ever stop to think that most women feel absolute shame after being sexually assaulted?

      When I was raped as a child, I blamed myself for a long time, on multiple levels. I blamed myself because I wasn’t strong enough to fight the guy off. I blamed myself because if I told my parents, my dad would be losing a friend, and a close friend of mine would be losing his dad. I blamed myself because maybe I was too “feminine” because I already knew I was transgender.

      In the end, I did tell my parents, and while the man did go to prison, my parents also put the blame directly on me for the reasons above. It took years to heal from that.

      When I was raped as an adult, I knew better. The guy who tried to rape me was a friend. He came over to borrow one of my laptop computers, ostensibly for a project he was working on. When he walked in, he started making his usual lewd jokes (that was his “thing”). I laughed a few times, but then he walked overy to me and started fondling my chest. After saying no and stop several times, he pushed me up against a wall and told me explicitly he was going to rape me anally, that because I was a “tranny slut”, I deserved it. I waited for him to start to pull down his pants, turned around, and rammed my knee as hard as I could into his crotch. He passed out from the pain, so I pulled him outside and left him.

      Fun fact: he never did have kids.

      If we take into account the number of assaults that don’t get reported to police, about one in four women, before graduating college, will be sexually assaulted, whether it’s date rape, violent rape, spousal rape, or even just molestation. The guy who assaulted me the second time, I didn’t report that, because I was horrified about what happened, and embarrassed that I had let a guy into my apartment when I was alone.

      The statistics are correct. You just don’t want to believe the truth. I bet you even believe that the way a woman dresses invites men to rape, don’t you?

      • Thank you for putting him in his place. I hate what happened to you and I hate that I have heard similar stories all my life. As someone who was molested as a child, the only person who knew up until a few years ago was my husband. I tried to tell people when I was a child and they would shush you, say no you are making that up or what did you do wrong, somehow it was always your fault so you kept your mouth shut. I finally have been able to put it behind me but one never forgets. It sure does leave it’s mark and when some man makes light of it, it’s like it’s happening all over again. So I thank you for all of us survivors. Peace,

        • I just want to say I am grateful for all the strong women who comment here. I am grateful to the survivors for telling their stories.

          I am grateful to the men who get what John wrote.

          What saddens me is that I predicted how Certain People would respond and I saddens me that I was accurate. They and their attitudes are part of the problem why men still rape women.

          And what about the mindset that certain men have that is they rape a lesbian, it will turn her straight?

          • That just shows how ignorant some people in this country are about sexuality. And they are the one’s that don’t want anything but abstinence only taught. Give me a break.

            • Well, Kathleen, I agree with you. Have you noticed that the same people who don’t believe in climate change are the same people who don’t seem to mind it if we overpopulate the world?

              We must continue to speak out. We must continue to share our stories, if only because it might encourage other women to speak up, instead of hiding the secret in shame.

              Because the only people who should feel shame are the rapists and the people who taught their sons that women don’t deserve respect.

        • I started speaking up about being molested after I was assaulted, because so few people ever actually speak up about it because of the sense of shame most women feel. No one should ever be ashamed of something like that. No one should ever feel as though it was their fault. It wasn’t my fault a man raped me, nor was it my fault I was assaulted. I quit carrying that shame and opened up, telling my story whenever I could.

          I am so sorry you ever had to deal with that, Kathleen. No girl should have to suffer that sort of abuse from the very person who should be protecting them from it. *hugs*

          • Thank you, I have found that talking about it and putting the blame squarely where it belongs has been cathartic. I know that stuff will continue to happen but if we can make it safe to speak up and out perhaps less will happen, or these pedophiles and rapists will end up where they belong.

      • What happened to you, while horrific, doesn’t make college 20 times more dangerous to women than the most violent city in the country. Take your emotion out of it, and you know it is a preposterous figure. There is no way on earth it is possible those numbers are true.

        Thanks for the breaking news on unreported rape. I’m aware. Those don’t explain the two numbers being off by a factor of twenty. Also, an ability to extrapolate basic statistical data to larger number sets doesn’t make one a sexual predator. Easier to make such accusations instead of citing data, though.

      • “Did you ever stop to think that the vast majority of rapes go unreported?”

        Yes. Absolutely. In fact, none of the women I know who were raped reported it. I’ve actually studied sexual assault and how it is handled, and mishandled, for years.

        Not only do rapes go unreported, colleges go out of their way to have such criminal charges prosecuted ‘off-campus’ to make their schools artificially look safer ~ a rape at an off-campus apartment, even if reported, wouldn’t be registered by the college as a campus rape even though it happened to a student attending their school.

        “Did you ever stop to think that most women feel absolute shame after being sexually assaulted?”

        Absolutely. The blame and guilt can appear overwhelming. Simply getting someone to open up about what happened to them can take enormous patience and love.
        Or, what I wrote nearly three years ago …

        *”I have been rendered worthless, ****,” I struggled for my own understanding. Because of that I will probably never be comfortable believing I’m worthwhile. I’ll have to prove it to myself again and again. I doubt I’ll ever accept that I’m the [person] I should be, or can be. Consider it a flaw in my lenses of perfection.” *

        “I bet you even believe that the way a woman dresses invites men to rape, don’t you?”

        No. I believe a woman wearing pasties, a thong, 6″ ‘F**k Me’ pumps and a smile while whistling ‘I’m Too Sexy as she walks down a dark alley isn’t asking for anything except directions.

        Women dress sexy so they can feel sexy. The often also like to appeal to their preferred gender. If the woman above is a lesbian, she isn’t going to care how I feel about how she is dressed. She isn’t going to be interested.

        Or,
        Me: “You look sexy.
        Lady: “Yes, I do.”
        M: “Wanna fool around?”
        L: “With you? No.”
        M: “Okay then. Want some ice cream?”
        L: “What?”
        M: “Ice cream. Do you want me to buy you two scoops of ice cream.”
        {Pause}
        L: “Okay, but it doesn’t mean anything.”
        M: “Yes it does.”
        L: {frowns}
        Me: “It means you like ice cream.”
        {Pause}
        L: “You are weird.”
        M: “I get that a lot.”
        L: “I bet you do.”

        Women don’t owe men sex. If a woman wants sex, she can ask for it. The same goes for men. If the woman rejects your appeal, it isn’t the end of the world. Also, since there are more women than men, the odds of you getting lucky eventually are pretty good.

        ***

        Childhood rape … there is simply now ‘silver lining’ to any part of it. Having to stack on your parent’s not accepting who you were in your soul … I feel for you. I do.

        I have done the best I can by teaching my children transexuals are people like everyone else. I have talked about my daughter taking a trip across Europe and parts of Asia after she graduates. Her two buddies are a transexual couple she knows at school. Of course, they are sophomores so we will have to see if the romance lasts.

        I also write about transexuals in my stories. No, they are not hypersexualized boinking machines though I do write porn.

        One was raped by her brother when she was little because … as you said … she was ‘too feminine’. Her adult struggle with both her gender identity and gender preference is a major subplot in the over all tale.

        In another story, the transgender protagonist is a Blackhawk pilot in the US Army in an all Transgender Unit nicknamed the Sacred Band (yes, I know the original SB were homosexual guys, but I liked the name and the esprit de corps the name engendered).

        ***
        “The guy who assaulted me the second time, I didn’t report that, because I was horrified about what happened, and embarrassed that I had let a guy into my apartment when I was alone.”

        This really stuck out with me because, AGAIN, this is a major theme in the rape survivor story I keep bringing up. It is his struggle to keep women out of his abode because he knows once they get inside they will expect sex.

        Having been raped twice; he is terrified. He is also terrified because he knows if he tells the police that he let them in … they won’t consider it rape … because he let them into his home. Why wouldn’t the woman expect to have sex with him if he let them in.

        I was doing this to put into perspective to men what single women ~ especially single women who have survived a sexual assault ~ go through mentally. Your home isn’t really a home. It is a place where you are forced to stay by circumstance. You don’t feel safe in it. This haunting sensation can follow you for years too.

        He also balances a candlestick on the doorknob, moves his cabinet partially against his bedroom door and sleeps with a baseball bat … all of which I’ve either personally witnessed, or have had women tell me they have done.

        I am not denying sexual assaults happen, Ms. Anne. I am trying to find a better argument than the ones presented here. ANYONE suffering from sexual assault is a bad thing. The perpetrators need to be put away.

        I think we both agree the system isn’t working the way it should.

        If you are right, and 23% of women will be victims of sexual assault on college campuses then do you really telling full grown men that rape is wrong is going to change a thing? If they don’t think rape is wrong, something has gone horribly wrong in their lives way before now.

        If I am right and the 23% is an aberration, and the DOJ crime statistics are more in line with what’s going on (the 6.1 per 1000) then young men do know rape is wrong and what we need to be teaching them is how to better defend women in the places they are at the most risk (where alcohol is involved) and to be better friends (as they are most likely to know their attacker in some manner).

        I’m sure a lot of guys will be happy to work toward making their college years happier and safer for their female cohorts and we should give them the skills and tools to do so.

        We should also hammer home the mantras:
        “You have nothing to be ashamed of.”
        “You did nothing to deserve this.”
        “That person was NOT your friend.”
        “Victims are wounded, not tainted. Do not reject them.”

        This is my stance anyway.

    • Speaking of “nonsense” Lionel Hutz, he did not say “23 percent of women will be sexually assaulted in college.” He said, “The Rape and Incest National Network (RAINN) reports that 11.2 percent of all college students experience rape or sexual assault while undergraduate or graduate students.

      A 2015 survey of women places the number at 23 percent—nearly 1 in 4.” and he offered a link to both sources. You are free to go find them and berate them for their “nonsense” as you like, but at least have the integrity to make the correct accusation.

      And if you had a remotely compassionate heart you would see the thanks being given and the stories being shared here in this one thread that belie your claim “it does no one any good to continue repeating these figures. Stop doing it just to score points and virtue signal. It accomplishes nothing”. Again, if the consensus in the world is that most rapes go unreported and prosecuted, you claiming to have standing to argue the numbers are wrong is beyond ludicrous.

      • I made reference to both the 23% and the 11% claims he referred to at outset of his post. Neither makes mathematical sense. Read and comprehend. Or, as you put it, “at least have the integrity to make the correct accusation.”

        Also, taking things at face value because they support your stance on an issue, regardless of how incredulous they may be, doesn’t make one compassionate. It makes one incapable of critical thinking.

        Cheers!

        • And again Lionel, you refuse to take responsibility for what you said, but feel so free to lay into others for what they said. You said, that he said, “23 percent of women WILL BE sexually assaulted in college” emphasis is mine so maybe you can finally see the error?

          What he did was cite references from two sources. One was and he clearly stated, “a survey” so he never tried to pretend either was above reproach but you know as well as anyone on the planet that sexual assaults on campus does remain an issue.

          Fighting over his sources without offering your own is poor debate Stop casting stones and look in a mirror.

          https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5176

          • You have to be incredibly obtuse to imply that people who cite the study claiming 1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted in college are not doing so to imply that it’s still going on. Why else would the author have brought it up? Here’s my source. Time magazine isn’t known to be a bastion of conservative thought or misogynistic behavior. The study he cited is junk and has obvious flaws and built in biases. People need to stop citing it. You can find a thorough debunking of it elsewhere, too. I’m not denying that sexual assault on campus isn’t an issue. But American universities are not the most violent places in the western world, which is what they would be if you believe those statistics.

            http://time.com/3222543/wage-pay-gap-myth-feminism/

            • I will agree that “Time magazine isn’t known to be a bastion of conservative thought or misogynistic behavior” but the author you cite is Christina Hoff Sommers, who “is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute” which kinda is…

              I think you “have to be incredibly obtuse” to claim that he cited the study implying that WILL BE what happens from now on.

              Most studies, especially surveys have flaws but the FBI and Justice Department statistics are pretty clear that it is an issue and it needs attention. No one has claimed or is claiming that American universities are “the most violent places in the western world,” even with those statistics.

              “The rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher for nonstudents (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per 1,000).

              For both college students and nonstudents, the offender was known to the victim in about 80% of rape and sexual assault victimizations.

              Most (51%) student rape and sexual assault victimizations occurred while the victim was pursuing leisure activities away from home, compared to nonstudents who were engaged in other activities at home (50%) when the victimization occurred.

              The offender had a weapon in about 1 in 10 rape and sexual assault victimizations against both students and nonstudents.

              Rape and sexual assault victimizations of students (80%) were more likely than nonstudent victimizations (67%) to go unreported to police.”

              https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5176

              Good statistics for crimes not reported is hard to find.

              • So is every stat cited by Mrs. Summers incorrect because she’s a conservative?

                I’ll take the definition of “ad hominem” for 200, Alex.

                Between that and all the straw men that get burned to the ground on this site, you guys have debating down pat.

                • And again Lionel, you distort and misrepresent. YOU SAID: “Time magazine isn’t known to be a bastion of conservative thought or misogynistic behavior”. I replied “I will agree…but the author you cite is Christina Hoff Sommers, who “is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute” which kinda is…” I did not say or imply that “every stat cited by Mrs. Summers incorrect because she’s a conservative” you made that connection all on your own. Straw Man for $1000 Alex!

          • How men can keep denying this is beyond me. Put together a random sample of 100+ women, at least 20 of them will have been sexually assaulted, whether it’s molestation, rape, or other forms of sexual assault. Most of them will have known (and trusted) their attacker beforehand.

            My question is, why is it so difficult for men to understand the word “no”?

            • The other thing men resist is taking responsibility for sexual harassment. How hard it was to get those laws passed and there are still men who think women complain too much about it.

              • Boy, that hit the nail square on the head. I was groped and had smarmy comments all of my working life. When you complain you get the old adage boys will be boys, bs is my answer. This happened even though they all knew I was a minister’s wife, so can’t imagine what it would be like if you didn’t have that. Peace

                • Yup, me too. I remember fellow male employees would touch me, I’d complain to their manager, a man, who did nothing. I’d complain to my manager, a woman, who had no authority. I complained to the Branch Manager, a man, who did nothing. I complained to the District Manager, a man, who did nothing. I complained to Corporate and no one did anything and just allowed it to continue.

                  I am now at a place where I simply do not trust any man until I’ve known him for quite a while. I take each man on a case by case basis, I don’t generalize about them as a group. But I have been mistreated for too many years by men who think they had a right to do whatever they want to me.

                  Honestly, I’ve wished I could turn myself into a Lesbian, but sexual preference is not a choice but God-given.

                  • I was only groped by one boss, before I got my bachelor’s and started my career. I made sure to make that guy’s life as miserable as possible. He didn’t do it again, at least not to me. Unfortunately, he owned the business, so there really wasn’t anyone else to go to.

                    As far as “turning lesbian”, while women are much more fluid sexually than a lot of people realize, you can’t force something like that. If you’re not attracted to women, then you’re not attracted to women. *shrug*

                    • I worked at two companies where that happened.

                      Then employers realized the sexual harassment law was being taken seriously and enforced. So things changed.

            • Not for me. Precisely one woman I’ve been intimate with has NOT been the victim of sexual violence sometime in her past.

  20. John, I’ve agreed with pretty much everything you’ve written since I started following your blog a few months ago. But, this time, you’re way off the mark.

    First, I don’t know what man has normally ever assumed that sexual assault is okay. It’s a myth that sexual assault victims somehow asked for it with their attire or demeanor, it’s also a myth that human males are naturally predatory creatures and our behavior must be controlled by heavy doses of psychotropic drugs and / or feminist theology. The very title of this piece insinuates that ALL men are responsible for sex crimes committed within their respective communities and therefore, must be compelled to stop it. This is in line with the neo-cultural view that, when men are accused of sexual assault, they are automatically guilty until proven innocent and that the burden of proof is on the accused.

    Second, you keep referring to men as “guys”, while you continuously refer to women as…well, women or ladies. I guess the term “gal” (the appropriate antonym) would be too politically incorrect, as if though presuming all men are sexual deviants isn’t ever more outrageous.
    Here’s another politically incorrect statement: most men don’t commit sexual assault. Men are several times more likely to assault other men than they are children or women. Women, on the other hand, are much more likely to assault men. But, of course, violence against males is perfectly acceptable in this supposedly enlightened society. It’s why we have a law banning female circumcision (even though it’s never been practiced here), but no similar law to protect males.

    Either way, the vast majority of men can’t bring themselves to force sex upon a woman – or anyone for that matter. Men are much more likely to be protective than oppressive or violent. Of course, if just one person is sexually assaulted, that’s one too many. But I still resent the assumption that my gender inherently makes me a lecherous monster.

      • No, I did not. The very title of the essay insinuates that all men are responsible for the behavior of the handful of men who commit sex crimes, which is like saying all Hispanics have to answer for the illegal immigration problem because most illegal immigrants are from Latin America. The guilt-by-association theory plagues non-White men, particularly African-Americans and Hispanics, due to the relentless media presentation that these groups are more inclined towards violent demeanors. The concepts of both innocent-until-proven-guilty and due process of law have been discarded in the name of political correctness, as the issues of domestic abuse and sexual violence have finally been pulled from the shadows of shame into the light of logic and awareness. It’s a mixed blessing. It’s great that people are discussing these problems openly, instead of relegating them to gossipy chats. But it’s bad that men are automatically presumed guilty once an accusation of abuse is launched fired at them.

        I’m especially disturbed by this one phrase in John’s essay: “Young men, I need to tell you something, something that maybe your fathers or your coaches or your uncles or your buddies or your action movie heroes never told you, but something that you apparently really need to hear.”

        Really, John? You honestly believe young men today are totally misguided and without proper upbringings that the men in their lives – fathers, grandfathers, etc. – have never broached these subjects? I know some young men today (and in years past) never got the proper guidance from adult males. It’s unfortunate, but it happens. Much of the blame now lies in the breakdown of the family unit.

        But there’s a strong misandric element in contemporary dialogue about gender relationships and how people should treat one another. Extreme leftist feminists still perpetuate the myth that just about any type of male behavior (especially sexual) is inherently and perhaps genetically abnormal or dysmorphic; that males are naturally predisposed to violent comportments and that such tendencies must be short-circuited as soon as possible. Again, as I’d stated previously, this often comes in the form of chemical infusions. Beginning in the late 1980s, parents were fed the belief that drugs like Ritalin were the only means to control (mostly male) children. Then came the “testosterone poisoning” bullshit that was surely a feminist concoction. This assumed that millennia’s worth of social disruptions (e.g. wars) were the unfortunate result of trillions of gallons of testosterone rampaging through male bodies and minds and that – not until the modern-day feminist movement – did we supposedly realize it. Never mind that testosterone is a naturally-occurring hormone that’s essential to human reproduction.

        The fact is that the vast majority of men don’t commit sexual violence against anyone. We simply cannot bring ourselves to do that. But to assume that all men are somehow culpable in the nefarious activities of the few truly deviant males among us is disingenuous and flat-out derogatory.

        • You reply so vehemently. Ususally, when people have such a strong negative reaction to John’s words, it’s because those words hit them deep where they don’t want to look.

          John, nowhere says “all men.” He does talk to men who believe rape is a woman’s fault or those men who turn a blind eye.

          You are reading this article through somekind of filter, rather than reading it for what it is.

          Or, maybe, you are one who thinks it’s a woman’s fault when she is raped because I sure haven’t seen one word of compassion, empathy, or sympathy for those o us who have shared our stories of what men have done to us.

          • Wrong again! It goes without saying that sexual assault is an incredibly serious issue; therefore, so are accusations of it. I replied “vehemently” because assuming that all men are responsible for the criminal behavior of a scant number of other men is bigoted and insulting. I personally resent that because, as a man, I’ve never had such violent thoughts, much less acted on them. Most men don’t. Yet, the few who engage is such despicable behavior are held up as examples of the typical male.

            If John is speaking only to those men who blame victims for their own sexual assault, it doesn’t come across that way. Notice, in the passage below, he starts off with “Young men…”, not ‘Young men who think rape is when a woman changes her mind,’ or ‘Young men who believe a woman’s clothing signifies her sexual desires.’

            “Young men, I need to tell you something, something that maybe your fathers or your coaches or your uncles or your buddies or your action movie heroes never told you, but something that you apparently really need to hear.”

            I don’t want to get too much into semantics or writerly intent. But, in the present culture, men are almost always presumed guilty, when faced with charges of child abuse and / or sexual assault. You’ve heard of ‘driving while Black’? This is ‘driving while male.’

            In recent decades, children (mainly boys) have been injected with various anti-psychotic drugs to control their behavior. We’ve raised a generation of chemical dependents. That may explain why so many young men are dropping or flunking out of college. As kids their minds were saturated with prescription medications because their parents bought into the myth such drugs were the best way to handle behavioral problems – no matter how minor. The disintegration of the family unit also has a role in this mess.

            Since Ritalin-based regimens don’t often work, young men are now being shamed into compliance. It’s become fashionable for high schools to convene their male students into a large venue and demand they stand and announce their respect for women and promise loudly they will never hurt a female. This is all because one or two males in a given population have committed the atrocious acts of rape or kidnapping. No one seems to want to believe most men just don’t engage in such vile activities.

            How men treat women? Yes, some men treat women very badly. Some women treat men very badly, too. While many women claim their greatest fear is being raped by a man, most men fear a woman will laugh and humiliate them in public. Believe me – the latter scenario is much more likely. Then again, some women will say they enjoy ridiculing men because of their own personal, unpleasant experiences.

            So, there we go. Round and round. Nobody wins and everybody gets angry.

        • “Toxic masculinity” …

          One of my least favorite word jumbles.

          Mr. De La Garza, I’m completely on board with you this time. To me this blog post blames young men as all potential beasts who much check themselves as well as a back-hand admonishment to male authority figures for not telling the young men that sexual violence is wrong.

          This was not aimed at some kind whose Old Man has a few screws loose, or who grew up in a freaking War Zone. ‘Action Hero’ … really?

          This was an insult to both college-bound young men as well as their fathers and other paternal guardians and guides on the road to manhood.

          Pastor John didn’t say:
          Young ladies, don’t dress up like sluts.
          Young ladies, don’t drink until your so drunk you can’t recall what you are doing.
          Young ladies, don’t pass out in some strange house.
          Young ladies, don’t allow a male friend into your domicile after dark because he might get grabby.

          Because that would have been inane and insulting.
          Women may wear what they wish.
          Drunk girls aren’t ‘asking for it’.
          Passed out girls aren’t ‘asking for it’.
          A lady letting you into her house isn’t letting you into her pants – she’s letting you into her house.

          All common sense things … which is why the blog post is insulting ~ it assumes we don’t have enough common sense to know to not rape women and that we are failing to pass this knowledge on to our children.

  21. “Women shouldn’t have to bear the responsibility for stopping sexual assault. They shouldn’t need to dress differently or carry a gun or take self-defense classes or stop drinking. They shouldn’t have to look over their shoulders or alter their social lives or inventory their dating histories. They shouldn’t always have to account for our propensity as men to be horrible or to take advantage of a compromising situation simply because it presents itself.”

    This is not only unhelpful statement, it’s a dangerous attitude. No one deserves to be sexually assaulted. Let’s get that out of the way before the inevitable “VICTIM BLAMING!” charges get thrown about. We live in a world where evil people exist, though. Taking steps to reduce the odds of becoming a victim of assault is just a smart way to live. I bet the author locks his doors at night. He shouldn’t have to. An unlocked door isn’t an invitation to rob his house or harm his family. Nevertheless, he, like 99% of us, locks his doors every night, and his car when he leaves it in a parking lot. The stats show he’d be foolish not to. If he did leave it unlocked one night, and someone took the advantage he (or she, I suppose, in a minority of cases) was given, and stole valuables from inside it wouldn’t be his fault. He wasn’t asking for it, nor did he have it coming. Did he make his victimization easier? Yep. Absolutely he did. Likewise a college age woman who gets black out drunk doesn’t deserve to be assaulted. She isn’t asking for it. She is, however, without question, making easier to victimize her. We can’t ignore that there are despicable people in the world who will do despicable things. Why do we treat taking preventative steps to prevent sexual assault any different than taking similar steps to preventing theft? Why is telling a girl to be careful when she goes out for drinks victim blaming, while telling someone not to leave their phone or wallet on their dashboard isn’t? It’s ridiculous.

    I have two daughters. When the time comes for them to move out and head off to school I will make sure I have to done everything in my power to prepare them for it. That includes making sure they know what’s out there, and how to protect themselves from it. I’m not going to rely on other parents instilling my values in their kids. That means acknowledging the fact that not everyone has your best intentions at heart, and making themselves a hard target will go a long way toward keeping them safe.

    Sticking your head in the sand and saying “Boys shouldn’t rape,” helps no one. Accept reality and deal with it the best you can. “An ounce of prevention…” and all that. Evil exists. Sometimes it manifests itself in a college age male. Don’t make it easier for them take advantage of you.

    • So what you’re saying is, since boys apparently have a difficult time keeping their hands off women, then women should live in a constant state of fear? That’s what I’m getting from your statement.

      Screw that.

      I refuse to live in fear. If I want to go out and have a drink, I shouldn’t have to worry about some horny guy putting something in it and drugging me. If I want to go for a walk, I shouldn’t have to carry a weapon on me and constantly look over my shoulder. If a woman tells a man “no”, it means “no”, end of story. Period. That’s not putting my damned head in the sand, that’s common sense!

      And yes, some fathers do tell their sons that it’s okay to take advantage of women. My sorry excuse for a father did, as did a lot of his buddies. Women were something to be ogled, to be owned. To them, women exist solely for the pleasure of men.

      • You do you. I, meanwhile, will raise my daughter’s to be as safe as possible in the world as it is, not the world as I want it to be. Criminals tend to take the path of least resistance. If some chickens*** little frat boy who is looking to get lucky any way he can sees a girl who is passed out on a couch, and another girl who is awake, alert and with her friends, which one do you think he’s going to set his sights on? Will he target the one who is just going to lay there when he forces himself on her, or the one who might kick him in the balls? My job is to teach my girls to be the latter.

  22. If your, YOU , actions Cost YOU , YOU Will stop,
    When the Price is high , you will have a second thought .
    YOU must have a Price to Pay, God set up a standard, and If you violate that standard , YOU must die.
    Old Testament. New testament is forgiveness, acceptance , But thier is still a PRICE for that Sin.
    Cost for every action , reaction , natural law created by God and regardless if you believe or not , there is a Reaction to every action .
    God is not Stupid or turn s a blind eye to sin. there must be a price.
    If you teach this you will have people with a conscience and self respect, respect for others and a respect for law, God, and others .
    otherwise give up , no chance in hell for change.

  23. In my opinion, we need to redirect the conversation.

    How do parents teach their sons to respect women and not rape us?
    How do parents teach their daughters to be aware of who is and who is not safe?

    How do followers of Jesus introduce sanity into teaching about the relationships between men and women? How do we communicate that Paul have been misinterpreted for millennia by those who wish to subjugate women?

    • She (almost) has a point. It was the SJW’s crusade against EVERYTHING which pretty much whole turned whole swaths of social media against them. Their lack of a sense of humor, or moderation set the stage for the alternative media revolution. The author doesn’t claim ownership to her part in insulting so many folks to the point they felt galvanized to act. It was ‘Oh God, here comes another one.’

      Maybe she should have sat back, taken a breather and watched a showing of ‘The Producers’. It has Nazis and financial chicanery … and is hilarious.

      Sometimes it is the place of comedy to deflate the powerful, unmask the evil and bring wickedness into the light and rob it of its power thru laughter. You would think, as a comedian, she would know this.

      Rape jokes didn’t make Donald Trump President. The attempts by SJW zealots to suppress of various forms of humor did. They made themselves the focus of those who truly love humor ~ even when it hurts. Once we learned to make a mockery of them, bringing down everything and everyone they supported was so much easier.

  24. Not believing women is endemic to our culture.

    http://www.tor.com/2017/04/13/the-peril-of-being-disbelieved-horror-and-the-intuition-of-women/?utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_term=tordotcom-tordotcomnewsletter&utm_content=na-readblog-blogpost&utm_campaign=tor

    “The Peril of Being Disbelieved: Horror and the Intuition of Women”

    Emily Asher-Perrin

    ” But some of these lessons are simply mirror images of terrors we know all too well—like a girl telling someone that she isn’t comfortable, and being told in response that she’s the worst kind of downer for daring to admit it.

    ‘I hate this trope more than anything, perhaps because of its ubiquity. Or perhaps because it asks the most basic question of all, one that our society struggles to answer even to this day:

    “Why didn’t you believe her?

    “She told you she heard something, or saw it out of the corner of her eye. She told you she was scared, that she didn’t want to go into that boarded up house or creaky old cabin, that she didn’t want to keep making out, that she didn’t like this corner of the woods. She told you she was scared and you laughed at her. She told you she had a bad feeling and you thought it was adorable. She whined at you and she tugged at your sleeve and sometimes she even begged you to leave it, to just go home deal with it all later. You thought that made her a wet blanket, or worse, a tease. As though that somehow mattered more than the sanctity of her life. Or yours.

    “But she was right. And you were wrong. And if you had just listened….

    “Every woman knows what this feels like, they know what it means. They know how hard the world works not to believe them. “

    • Interesting.

      I would add … when it is the guy who has that gut instinct to ‘not’ do something, he is accused of cowardice instead. I’m not a true aficionado of the genre, but I’ve seen a few instances when guys have voiced their concerns right along with that of the ladies – and have been ignored, or even mocked. Some times women will ridicule the women with those intuitive hunches for reasons of group dynamics.

      ***

      As for not believing what women say in general …
      Virtually every child I grew up with OBEYING their Mother more than their Father.
      Virtually every teacher who ruled our classrooms was a woman. In those days, if we didn’t listen, we got smacked across the back of the hand with the side of a ruler. Trust me – that hurts.

      I’ve never thought of a single female professional I wouldn’t follow the advice of next to that of a comparable male associate.
      We obey both female police officers and judges just fine.
      We elect, or select, females to virtually every political office to speak for us. The assumption is they will know what to do.
      Women run some of the largest companies in the country. The assumption being their subordinates will do what they are told, or those people will be fired.

      How are we not listening to women? We are taking the advice and leadership of women now more than ever.

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