No, We Don’t Have to “Get Over” Anything


I’m not okay with this.
I’m not getting over it.
I’m not going to accept it.
I’m not going to move on.

I’m not going to shut up.

I’m not going to make nice or give the benefit of the doubt or hold my tongue or fake unity or pretend that my eyes don’t see what they see. They see clearly, and that of course is the source of my burden. I don’t want to see this, but I do.

And so it really doesn’t matter how condescending the bullies become or the insults they hurl or how loudly they attempt to shout me down or the violence they generate against me. I am fully secure in my pissed-offness and they will have to contend with it for as long as it is required—for four years if necessary.

That is how valuable the really beautiful things of this country and its people really are. This is the fitting price tag for preserving the brilliant diversity that has always made America great. It is the fair cost of nurturing a Liberty that should be available to everyone. The sleeplessness, the wounds, the things and the people that we will lose are all worth it.

There are times when outrage is the most precious virtue the human heart can house, and this is such a time. This anger is a sacred alarm in the center of our chests telling us to respond. These are not days to shrink back or to cling to decorum or to look away and hope that it will all be okay.

Yes, it will all be okay—because we will make it okay. 

We will do the messy, painful, exhausting work of waking up and pushing back the daily Cancer that seeks to metastasize around us. We will find other like-hearted people and we will craft an opposing reply to all that is unloving or ignorant or fearful. We will be the steady, strong resistance to that which we cannot and should not get over.

This is what humanity does when it is at its best; it protects its most vulnerable, it stands firmly in the face of the bullies, it raises a defiant middle finger to tyrannical power and declares that Love is the far greater weapon.

The tactic of the bully is to try and make you feel ashamed for your decency, to become apologetic for the goodness in you. The bully depends upon your silence. He tries to isolate you and make you believe that you are alone and that no one feels the way you feel.

To Hell with that. We know better.

We know that numbers don’t bear it out. We know that we are not in the minority. In fact the bullies know that too. That’s why they’re so loud and so persistent and so desperately flailing now—because despite “winning” and despite seeming advantage they are still so afraid, so worried that it all will come tumbling down—which of course is true. Any victory of darkness is only temporary. Love always has the last word.

And so no, getting over anything isn’t necessary or even advisable in these days. Getting over this would be consenting to it, agreeing with it, making peace with it—and that would be defeat; acquiescing to the darkness.

So embrace every bit of sickness in your stomach, every ounce of heaviness in your heart, every tear that clouds your vision, and allow them all to move you toward other good people who are equally burdened and begin fighting. 

Light does its best work in the darkest places and so this is exactly where we need to be. 

Brothers and sisters, we shall not get over—we shall overcome.



380 thoughts on “No, We Don’t Have to “Get Over” Anything

  1. This is the first time that I will disagree with you, dear John. God knows better. He is placing all leaders in place for His purpose. At some point, we do need to practice faith.

    • Thalia you can’t possibly be serious. *God* did not elect Trump, the Electoral College did; Hillary Rodham Clinton was the People’s Choice and the numbers bear this out.

      You really better crawl back under that rock you just came out of; the sunshine is clearly too bright for you to see the truth.

      • Only if “god’s” plan is to punish us, like Rome was for it’s greed and conceit than I would agree. I for one do not want to go down with those who think this country is meant to be for whites of European ancestry and that women’s rights to make their own health care decisions no longer can without fear of incarceration and so on…… I will NOT get over the trajectory of a president-elect who tweets outrageous lies and can’t even be bothered to check his sources and refuses to be open and available to our free press. The stakes are too high to just “have faith.” I have faith in the majority of decent people in this country who will fight for truth and the values on which this country was created, to shelter, protect and help those less fortunate.

            • I don’t know if they are all hoodwinked

              …. after listening to my evangelical friends they are convinced Trump is a Nebuchadnezzar/Cyrus like figure who will bring God’s punishment on the wicked and restore America as a city on the hill, a glorious nation under God.

              Manifest destiny. (but was that God’s will or the will of those who took possession of the New World?)

              So, for some, they are knowingly bringing this about.

              They voted for it.

              That is even more shocking.

              We get what we ask for, but can we control what we put in motion?

              So let’s drive this bus off the cliff and God will catch us…

              …well in their minds God will catch some of us.

              This is where they think God is in control.

              • And when they discover that God respects their free will too much to interfere with the logical consequences of their choices? Seems to me that is when they discover just how gullible, hoodwinked, and manipulated they were.

              • “Thou shall not test the Lord thy God”. Their attitude is no different than Satan tempting Jesus to throw himself down from a tall building knowing angels in heaven would catch him lest he stub his toe. Catch them? Catch some? God promised He will tell them, “I knew you not” and He will “destroy those who destroy the earth”.

              • Exactly, my point, Dawn. I expect Trump to be impeached pretty quickly. It will be hard for even a Republican Congress to fail to notice it when he breaks the law. The word is emolument, I believe and it would count as a high crime and misdemeanor.

                He has waffled on campaign promises already.

                And if there is any Christian reading these words sho think his proposed Cabinet will be good for the USA, then I guess they gullible, hoodwinked, and manipulated they were.

                God gave us stewardship of the earth. That doesn’t give humanity permission to kill the planet and yet Christians have voted for exactly that.

                Not to mention all the other evils they voted for.

                No, Dawn, I don’t know how they can’t grasp what they’ve done, but available evidence tells us they have not.

                • I have read all of the comments Gloriamarie has written. She has never once said abortion is good.

                  You are the one twisting her words and bearing false witness against hear.

                • You have a twisted sense of compassion if you are going to prioritize that over the legions of children in foster care. No, that is real and actual work and commitment. Blathering about fetuses makes you feel noble and justified while achieving nothing except to threaten the Constitutional rights of other people.

                  • Catholic Joe, supporting the right to choose does not cancel out someone’s humanity.

                    Sorry you are wrong on this point.

                    You are the one showing little compassion.

                • Hey Joe–when every anti-choice person adopts one unwanted child (,that would be 2 children per anti-choice couple), I will begin to respect you a little bit.

                • Why is it that the party of pro-gun, pro-war, anti-healthcare, anti-education are the ones blustering on about being pro-life ?

                  Sometimes abortion is the most compassionate response possible.

                  • Abortion is compassionate??? r u kidding… saying we killed our mom so our family could have a better life, with her money.

                • I hope you are right about impeachment. The fact that we hold elections that are subject to gerrymandering, voting machines that malfunctions and have no paper backup, we have recounts in states where there were more votes than voters, and a president-elect that appears to have conspired with another country to achieve victory, it makes one wonder how it is even possible that he has not been tried for treason. Washington is now in the hands of billionaires and multinational corporations, our worst nightmare. If the Christian right truly believe that Trump will avenge evil, they will wake up as he will throw this country in to a darkness that this country has not seen before. This is our wakeup call.

                • “I see so many Christians talking about abortion being a crime against God. It’s not a wonder that they are hard pressed to find a conclusive biblical statement to corroborate their position. In their determination to control women they have been forced to rely on exceedingly week sections such as “thou shall not kill”,”I kneweth thou in the womb” and their favorite: “When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman’s husband shall lay upon; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth…“–Exodus 21:22-24 The problem here is that the man who injures a pregnant woman in the process, shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted on her, not the fetus. I am often dumbfounded at how Christians can assume that abortion is wrong judging by these feeble verses when the Bible clearly advocates infanticide and many other atrocities against children and pregnant women.” Abortion:

                  Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”? 2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

                  • I have to say, I’d love it if, when a woman does finally become President, she immediately signs an executive order mandating vasectomies. No exceptions, no excuses. Men would howl bloody murder at that!

                • What about after they are draw that first breath? Republican ideology would say these same people are at that point, on their own.

              • “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”  –  Carl Sagan

          • I couldn’t agree more, sad to say its the arrogant attitude of many Christians that have the I’m ok attitude and the rest will be judged that I find so offensive.

        • Unity with people who would deny women and minorities their civil rights, deny medical care to sick people, stifle a free press, support a President-elect who appoints utterly unqualified people to his Cabinet and chooses them as heads of Federal agencies while telling preposterous lies over Twitter is not unity; it is complicity in the dismantling of the country, and I refuse to be a part of it. The United States deserves better. WE deserve better.

      • The Electoral College hasn’t yet voted. And these individuals are already facing our future smack in the face. If this is the country they submit to, we will have to work hard and long to
        Preserve Liberty and justice… We will come together and do it because there is no greater task.

      • Scott a little grace to Thalia wouldn’t hurt. This campaign has had enough nastiness. It appears the God of scripture has always worked His will through the history of mankind. So in that sense Thalia may be right. If there is a high road here it may be by us living in love (light) in the presence of hate (darkness). As John suggests this does not have to be done with roll over passivity but can be a quite active, very present to those who would try to be hateful. Especially those who are hateful to those with a different life style than thier own.
        Jesus seemed pretty clear that our job is to give the love/light we have received.
        If we have the light within us then let it shine. If we do not then find it first.
        Peace and Grace

        • As Christians…we already know what we should be doing. Guarding our tongues. Helping orphans & widows…avoiding worldly stuff. Plenty to keep us busy till Christ takes his people.

        • “Scott a little grace to Thalia wouldn’t hurt.”

          Lemme tell you a thing or two, pal. I am a fifty-four-year-old Gay man who has been living with HIV disease for twenty-seven years. On top of that I have suffered from Bipolar Disorder for the last fourteen of those years. I take more medicine at the age of fifty-four than my mother did at seventy.

          I am afraid that if it is grace you are looking for, this imperfect human’s well is running a tad bit dry.

      • The problem is 43% of eligible voters didn’t bother to even show up to vote. If they had maybe she would have won the states with the higher electoral count.(like Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin). Sorry but if you want to blame anyone blame the asshats that didn’t vote. That’s the problem I have with the protesters most of them didn’t vote and if you didn’t vote in the election then you do need to shut the hell up. You don’t get to bitch about a problem if you refused to be apart of the solution.

        • How do you know most of the protestors didn’t vote? And no one’s right to express themselves gets abridged here – your statement that someone who didn’t vote has no “right” to complain is both absurd and provincial.

      • Sorry, but the electoral college didnt vote yet, and they dont until dec 19th! Try to keep up. The American people have spoken. We tried it “your way”, and its crystal clear your way STINKS!

      • Hi Scott. Merry Christmas—and I hope you are doing well. If you will recall the prophetic vision that was given to me, God’s plan was to destroy the Republican Party utterly and completely (the millions of airborne splinters that caught on fire and were totally consumed as they hit the Earth). Donald Trump had to be elected miraculously for that to occur so the man in office would be allowed to head the Republican Party and totally discredit it by the outrageous things he would do to our country and its people once he is in office. If Hillary had been elected, the Republican Party would have kept on existing as the same old, same old Republican Party.

        In the comment below, KM may be right. This may be a punishment for the American people. The fundies will say it is a punishment for abortion and gay marriage. I will say it is a punishment for having cold, rigid hearts, abandoning “the least of these” in mind, heart, and action and punishment for making greed for money and material things our authentic national god. Both sides are loaded down to the hilt with sins of various varieties.

        I see one thing for certain that is coming over the next four years. All of us are going to be extremely disappointed by our new President Trump. If you think people in general were upset with Obama, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Severe collateral damage from the Trump storm in Washington will adversely affect every American family. As Shakespeare said in one of his plays: “By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

        • Actually, Hillary was elected. So far the Electoral College have yet to vote. And if it really does turn out that the Russians hacked in, then , no, he wasn’t elected according to our laws.

          • True.

            Even if there was a recount and Hillary Clinton won…

            …because she conceded she gave up the position, technically, right?

        • Hitler was elected Chancellor of Germany by the existing laws of Germany too. Would you have said the same thing if Hitler had just been elected our President? I think this is the message you Trumpites are not hearing. WE THINK YOU ELECTED AN AMERICAN HITLER PRESIDENT—and unlike the German people in 1932 and the Catholic Church that sold out to Hitler, we intend to dig our heals in deep, make a public stand, and work with Congress to remove him from office at the first sign of committing a high crime or misdemeanor—and he will commit them—and he shall be legally removed from office when he does. You can pull out your firearms and start a civil war if you want to, but remember, our side has firearms too—and we know how to use them.

            • That is an oversimplification to say he was appointed.

              Under the Weimar system, the presidency was a powerful office. Hindenburg, who deeply distrusted and personally detested Hitler, had been motivated to run for a second term primarily by a desire to stop Hitler from winning the presidency. Nevertheless, following his re-election, Hindenburg failed to prevent the Nazis from assuming power. Two successive federal elections left the Nazis as the largest party in the Reichstag and anti-democratic parties in control of a majority of its seats. Under this political climate, Hindenburg reluctantly appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933.

          • Lol, like “millions” of illegals voting?
            Like watch the sex tape that didn’t exist?
            About Obama’s birth certificate?
            About the number of African Americans commiting crimes, etc.etc.etc?

          • yeah joe, don’t think I need to subscribe to get the message from this horses ass’s mouth- the media does a great job of announcing his every tweet. and left wing media don’t really have to do much to destroy him he’s doing a good job of that himself every time he opens his mouth.

      • Everyone in the media wants you to ‘think’ that Hillary won the popular vote?

        If you take time to count the counties and locations, YOU will see she won the popular votes in a FEW LARGE CITIES and not the popular vote within our states or counties.

        There is a BIG difference.

        There are 3,141 counties in the United States.
        Trump won 3,084 of them.
        Clinton won 57.

        There are 62 counties in New York State.
        Trump won 46 of them.
        Clinton won 16.

        Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.

        In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond)

        Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.

        These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles.

        The United States is comprised of 3, 797,000 square miles.

        When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.

        Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don’t and shouldn’t speak for the rest of our country.

      • Scott Amundsen — Obviously you do not know scriptures!!

        Who Put Trump Into Office? Man or God?

        (Daniel 2:20-21) “Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: {21} And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:”

        • thanks eddie. good points about the area map. The Electoral College is a brilliant invention, and ensures that we remain a Constitutional Republic, where each state and each district ELECTS its REPRESENTATIVES that BEST Represent our diverse population.

        • “Who Put Trump Into Office? Man or God?”

          The answer to THAT one depends upon to whom you are speaking and you can ask a whole roomful of Biblical scholars and half will say it was the people that elected him and half will say God did it…or more likely some will way God, some will say the people, and a whole bunch will not be able to answer the question at all.

      • I find it saddening that after a whole written speech on anti-bullying and standing up for what you believe in a productive way, the first person to disagree was bullied and told to crawl back under a rock. I don’t feel like the author of this piece would enjoy you “supporting” him by spewing the very vitriol he is railing against. Tolerance and respect is NOT a one way street. If you propose to claim the moral high ground, earn it. If you are unwilling to do so, then you are just the reflection of those you pretend to disagree with. Thinking it’s ok to spew hate or anger for your cause because you “know” you are righteous is nothing but unearned moral superiority. I understand I probably won’t change your mindset, but I hope I do, just a little. Take an extra minute before you respond in anger and find a way to try to reach that person. Slow, steady, positive progress forward is how it all gets better.

      • The popular vote you speak of and the millions of votes she received, ALL comes from Orange County, CA. Of you want to go back under your rock, take a look at the US map, and the sea of RED! Your candidate is a disgrace and her husband is worse.

      • She was not the people’s choice. She was California’s choice, where the president didn’t campaign. Lop off the wiggly west coast and she loses by millions. Get real.

      • Scott, you wouldn’t know truth if it walked up and bit you in the butt. You and John drink some more progressive kool-aid and everything will continue to seem ok even when it is not. One day the kool-aid will run out and you will wake up to discover you are on a liberal path to hell.

        • Interesting. You used the words “progressive kool-aid”. Drinking the Kool-Aid, of course, refers to the cult leader Jim Jones forcing his followers to drink Kool-Aid laced with cyanide. It has a negative connotation referring to blindly following an evil person without question. “Progressive” is a positive word. Without progress, we would still be dying in our 30s. Without progress, we wouldn’t be communicating with each other through digital impulses. People who are progressive are interested in bettering life for all humans (generally speaking, there are bad apples in every demographic). People who are progressive value people thinking for themselves because it is through the exchange of ideas that great things happen. Therefore, by adding the word “progressive” to “drinking the kool-aid” you change the meaning of the phrase from a negative to a positive. That means that your reply can be understood as saying that doing good is the path to hell. I am pretty sure that is not what Jesus taught.

      • Wow, Scott. The point of his article is discussing how he won’t be bullied and how love will win out, then you go and make your shitty little remark. You are the bully pal. As far as the popular vote, NYC and CA don’t dictate things for the whole country.

      • I am sick to death of hearing “christian” trumpers saying. God put him in power. He didn’t put trump in power any more than he put hitler in power. Evil exists in this world. Period. proof of that!

      • Sir, that Rock is about to fall squarely on your head; that rock being our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You obviously don’t know Him.

    • Thalia, do you believe God will’s evil? I ask because the entire Republican National Party agenda is turning it’s back on good.

      • Rather, whatever you definition of good is, and the facts speak for themselves; your definition of “good” is hideously flawed.
        You wouldnt recognize “good” if it walked up to you and smacked you upside the head.

        • I don’t mind it when people disagree with me as long as they do so politely. Sadly, I can’t say that about the way you choose to write. I pretty much dismiss people who write as you do as a troll.

          Please tell me what is good about authoritarianism, bigotry, discrimination, fascism, gynophobia, homophobia, intolerance of those who disagree with one, misogyny, mocking the disabled, racism, rape, sexual assault and/or molestation, sexism, transgenderphobia, white supremacy, and xenophobia?

          Those are all evils, as is the Republican Party national platform.

          Mocking me will not make those things any less than evil. Mocking me only demonstrates which one of us knows the difference between good and evil.

    • If God chooses our leaders, why do we go through the farce of pretending to vote for them? I say, let’s just stop voting and let God do his job.

    • Thalia, your reasoning works if you believe in a puppet master god. I believe in a God that is all knowing and all loving, but not all manipulating. My faith is that people of good will, people who love God, people who follow the teachings of Christ, and people who follow the teachings of other prophets, will come together to resist the evil in the world. That doesn’t happen if we abdicate all responsibility and just have faith.

      • The puppet master God is coming from people who have a strong dose of Calvinism in their religious traditions. The fundies have that dose. I never cared much for Calvin, a Johnny-come-lately theologian who dared to dispense with the previous 1,500 years of Christian theology, church tradition, and church history in some critical matters.

        • Agreed. That TULIP thing is not based on the NT and let us not forget the Supralapsarian Calvinists who proclaim “God’s chief intention is last in execution” by which is meant that some people will live with God forever. That God created some people simply so they would be damned. That is the ultimate end of the “God wills everything happens” idea.

          God doesn’t will everything that happens. We have free choice and sadly, because we are sinners, we choose sin. It’s really too bad that since the Reformation Protestants have thrown out so many useful medieval concepts such as the Seven Cardinal Virtues and the Seven Deadly Sins.

          We reap the consequences of our own sins and those of others. We see the pattern of dysfunction repeated from generation to generation.

    • No. God isn’t forcing Donald Trump or his terrible unChristianly cabinet picks on us. He gives us free will. God didn’t out Hitler in place, either. All of this came from the hate, ignorance, and bigotry of men.

    • So, when my son died at age 7 from a rare, terminal genetic disease, this was because God knows best. He is the reason my son died. And, me as his mother, should just get over it by “practicing faith.” Gee, thanks for being sharing this wonderful, comforting, piece of wisdom. I have gotten through the past 25 years just knowing that God grieved over this as much as me. Now–I have to be pissed at God because I’m shocked and saddened to know that’s why by little boy died. Thanks.

      • Linda, I am sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences. I know this was not God’s will for your family and yes, God weeps with your tragic loss.

      • Hey Linda. Merry Christmas. Yes. In the Calvinist view, that is exactly what happened to your son. Modern Christian fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism have a strong dose of Calvinism in their veins. Have you ever been to an open casket funeral Down South. Old ladies with white hair casually line up near the coffin, chat, and tell every other grieved person that comes by:

        “Hit was his appointed time. The Lord saw fit to call your son home. It was his will.”

        In other words, God directly killed your son because He had it on the “To Do List” attached to his refrigerator. The day he died was when God scheduled it. Because God killed your son, rather than ex-convict Homer Mason or the smallpox virus, you can take great comfort in knowing that God was his real killer.

        Look lady. Don’t blame me. I didn’t create this fundie religious crap—I just explain it.

    • Seriously Thalia? That is how people in Nazi Germany were able to embrace Hitler. People use “god” to avoid taking responsibility for their choices.

    • Is it possible that God’s purpose is to give us “yet another” opportunity to fight injustice? God did not elect Trump. But, the Spirit is in this and will guide us if we are open to looking for a path toward light. There is nothing about this that suggests to me that I should keep my mouth shut and just “go along” with what I see so far. In my heart I would not feel ethical, moral or Christian.

      • Well said, Donna. We have the examples of the rise of fascism in Germany and Italy, the witness of the Holocaust from which to learn and do better than those who “accepted God’s will.”

    • So, thank you for enlightening me. When my son died at the age of seven from a rare, terminal genetic disease, I got through the next 25 years thinking that God was as sad about this and grieved about this right along side me. I had no idea that this was his plan, that he knew better. That to know better meant to make a child suffer with the pain of a cruel disease. If only, if only I had know that all I had to do was practice “faith.”

    • Seriously? So God made Hitler the monster he was?
      Jesus lady, I have news for you, there is evil in this world as well.
      God did not make Trump the dishonest, sexual deviant, con artist, xenophobic, mysoginost, liar he is.
      God did not make him president either.

    • Did he also put Hitler into power? These two men frighteningly have used similar techniques to gain power such as lies,misrepresentation of facts and using scapegoats.So I must disagree with your statement.

    • Thalia, you are insane. God did not place this unholy jackass in power. A bunch of frightened bigots did. Do not blame God for the insane behavior of heartless idiots.

    • Thalia, this response is BS. God does allow tyrants and demagogues because of hardness of hearts. If God was so involved, why is there such disagreements among even the millions of evangelical Christians? Some think he is going to save America, others think he is the Antichrist.

    • So true. I’ve been waiting for this moment that is overdue. The moment in which God places a lesson on our path. We’ve been too apathetic as a nation. Too quiet… too tolerable. It is now the opportunity to speak out, to organize, to teach others, to deconstruct fallacy. I’m grateful to Him because I know that in darkness comes a brighter light. So, during the next four years of darkness, we, those who truly are the image of God and love and acceptance will shine brighter than you can ever imagine.

    • I do believe God works through people. So one may be tempted to believe that is why Trump was elected. But, the caveat here is he works through informed, educated, thoughtful people. He usually does not work through angry, bigoted and poorly educated people. I do not believe this election reflects is HIS PURPOSE. If that is the case, we have a laughable faith, and we worship a horrible being.

    • Thalia, I find it interesting that somehow evangelicals and conservatives did not accept “God’s plan” when the black guy got elected. Twice. Why exactly IS that?

    • God has nothing to do with this election! Darkness has invaded this election and it is up to us to fight the darkness and we are all showing just how strong and powerful in Gods love & Light we can be, by coming together to fight that darkness. That is what you call faith.

    • God gave us free-will and brains to use. Anyone who took the time to pay attention to what was happening and to research what was true had enough evidence to see that Hillary Clinton was the most qualified candidate for President we have ever had and Trump the least qualified. Don’t put this on God. I suspect that on election night the first tear to fall was God’s.

    • You are very wrong. The truth shall set you free. And in the words of your Prophet, God helps those who help themselves. And further, heaven is here for you to create (paraphrase).

    • There is no god. No one who supposedly preaches love, would do THIS to us. There will be a scandal. only question is, how soon.

      You have been hoodwinked.

    • Thalia-God did not put Donald Trump in the White House. Do you really think God would want such a hateful bully to lead the world? No he would not. This was done by man and I’m sure God is not pleased.

    • I agree with you, Thalia. God is allowing this to happen for His purposes and His ultimate glory. We all need His mercy, grace, and forgiveness.

    • Thalia, I do believe you missed the entire point. God doesn’t elect our leaders, people do. People also collude with the FBI, Russia, and others to influence elections, again, not from God. John, thank you from the depths of my soul. Your words echo the call to action I feel so deeply. This unpaid Christian grandma social worker activist will resist, persist, educate, demonstrate with like minded people to restore the balance of love, courage, and strength in our nation.

    • “God Knows Better” Yes that is why Jesus gave us the Sermon on the Mount! God is not complicit on this mess, People like you made it possible. Do not put it God, is on you. BTW To take the name of God in vain is a Mortal Sin. Hitler was not put in place by God, He put us in place to take him down. Wake Up! The resistance is his purpose!

    • Funny. My Christian circle of friends and some family members at the time never said that about President Obama. God will let people have their way and in prez t’s case, it is His way of trying to get our attention as to what level of darkness is really in our nation’s heart.

    • I agree with you Thalia. It is people who won’t move on that are the real problem. Telling others to do the same is disgraceful.

    • God is not doing this as these men are sinning in their greed at the expense of the hard working public ….

    • Thaila, I agree God has purposes for everything. In this case, let’s entertain the thought that maybe God’s purpose is to get His People to stop being so lukewarm and stand up for what is right and what is wrong. A lot of Christians stood by muttering about Hitler but did not do anything about it. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran pastor, stood up for what is right. He was known as an anti-nazi. He later died in a Nazi concentration camp. He stood up but few did. We all know what happened. Faith is also a verb. It has action. Do we live a life of faith doing in our lives what God has placed in our hearts? Do we care for the poor, the hungry, the homeless? What about the women who have been raped? If our new and improved health care is passed in the Senate, she will have no coverage. The current administration appears to be biased towards women when you look down the list of preexisting conditions. Do we sit on our hands or do we stand? Each must do what their conscience dictates but as for me and my house, we will fight.

    • Thalia: Therefore by your logic, God placed Hitler in place for His purpose. Great assurance for 6 million who were slaughtered.God allows as He is sovereign but you and many Christians who thinks He ‘places’ or its His divine will is speaking blasphemy as you are putting words into God’s mouth.

    • Thalia, God did not place evil in positions of power. He loathes evil is us. Man places man in positions of power, Man judges; man condemns; man lies; and man destroys.

      Your position as stated means that God put Hitler in position as Chancellor in order to bring the entire world to the brink of destruction. God wanted the deaths of millions of Jews, gays, Gypsies, political prisoners and allied forces. The faith that we practice is that we shall overcome; that love will brighten the darkness that man has created through his free will. The free will that was granted to us is the free will that has allowed monsters to climb to positions of power. It will also be our free will that puts us to the test. Do we lie back and cower in the darkness or do we have the courage to rise up and show that together we can save each other from the hatred that is being peddled under the guise of political strategy?

  2. John it appears that you have become that which you have written about and against for so long…….a dogmatic voice that harps and barks about one subject….your dislike and disgust with TRUMP and THOSE WHO SUPPORT HIM.

    THALIA, I agree with you 110%. Way to go maim. Spot on.
    Daniel 2:21
    “He (GOD) controls the course of world events; he removes kings and sets up other kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the scholars.

    John and Scott A., perhaps people voted on one or two issues like distrust of a congenital liar, a failed SOS, BENGAHZI, but most importantly of all a person who proposes, approves, and legislates murder in the last trimester and the last month by way of positioning and inserting a rod at the base of the baby’s skull then suction and disposal of the remains of a human being that GOD OUR FATHER created.

    Don’t even start about the a woman’s right with her body-90+% of all abortions are due to risky casual sex.

    So fellows, how can you as Christians promote such a candidate? The people have spoken regardless of your like, dislike or acceptance.

    By the way, if this election were reversed, you fellows would be saying the same thing with little or no talk about diversity and it’s embrace and propagation.

    Here’s something you both might want to consider-the love of Jesus Christ. Being a peacemaker and not a passive aggressive hater of those who disagree with you.

    Lastly, I will leave you with the words of #RICK WARREN – “Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.”
    Rick Warren

    John, your “pissed offness” doesn’t look well on you. Start writing about different topics that you are SO VERY GIFTED at writting about. Otherwise, you may have a falling away of your more conservative readers. You stay pissed off long enough, you’ll start pissing on other people. That’s not you friend. That’s not you.

    • “Don’t even start about the a woman’s right with her body-90+% of all abortions are due to risky casual sex.”

      Wow. Judgmental much? People like you make me sick; sitting up there on your high horse and gazing down at us maggots.

      You know almost nothing about late-term abortions; for Christ’s sake do some research. These procedures are not a casual method of birth control; they are usually done to save the life of the mother, a woman who if she had a choice would save her baby.

      • Oh so you agree with late term abortions Scott A.? I’ve ask you to answer once. You didn’t. Am I to presume you do believe it’s alright to perform late term abortions? Maybe you don’t want to go on record. Again, most of us voted on issues not the person. And the two that we all had the opportunity to vote for were the most disliked and distrusted candidates in recent history. By the way, not a Dem. or a Rep., constitutionalist here, i.e. , Constitutionalist, #7principles.

      • Ignore him Scott. He is just a fat, bald, conceited bully of a man consumed with pride because his man won the election—and now Trump is going to show us all what a great guy God really is.

    • You contradicted yourself. First off, it’s false to make the assumption that God did this. That’s arrogant and contradicts biblical teaching that we have free will.

      God didn’t choose Hitler, and he didn’t choose Trump. The free will of fearful, ignorant, bigoted men did both.

      And if your poorly-made assumption was true, Hillary Clinton is a leader, for all intents and purposes. So therefore you contradicted yourself again, by admitting then that God would be putting her in place just as much as he has the others as well as giving her guidance for all of those ignorant fables you keep blabbering about like been Ghazi. I know the facts don’t matter to you, but even the mother of one of the been Ghazi victims has ask you and other ignorant Christian conservatives to stop using her sons name. She even specifically called you and Trump out on it. I would suggest you honor her wishes if you want to continue even pretending that you’re any type of Christian.

      Your abortion statistic is in accurate and false. I doubt you care. But you know what is a true statistic about abortion? Making abortion illegal does not decrease the number of abortions at all. Zilch. Nada. Zero. Have I dumbed that down enough for you? Do you know what it does do though? It raises the death rate by nearly 40% of both mothers and fetuses. So stop calling yourself pro life, and call yourself a murderer and brainwashed Christian male misogynistic pig, because we all know you vote for capital punishment anyway. The statistics are right here in front of you, so stop pushing abortion as your reason for supporting Reoublicans. Furthermore, the Christianly thing to do based on those facts is to be pro-choice. No one is pro abortion. It’s called pro choice for a reason.

        • God is the direct cause of most abortions—as a matter of purely stated fact. He sits there “knitting in the womb” and says: “Uh-oh. This one ain’t gonna work. Gotta get rid of it.” Ask any gynecologist.

          • Actually Charles made a good point.

            What about all the spontaneous abortions?

            Was and is that God’s will?

            Then that would make God an abortionist, right?

              • You are right there is no excuse to kill humans not even war, but we do it don’t we. Yet you rationalize one kind of killing over another. If you want to get down to the heart of the matter like Jesus did, we kill people with our condemning words and hateful hearts…

                …those who support war and then turn around to condemn those who have abortions are hypocrites.

          • I have been there and done that. Many women who have spontaneous abortions never even knew they were pregnant. They just thought they were having a heavier than usual late period. If I hadn’t been deliberately trying to become a mother, that’s what I would have thought, but because I was keeping track, I knew and had it medically confirmed.

            I always use the medical term “spontaneous abortion” because the word “miscarriage” implies a wrong doing on the mother’s part. Indeed some family members even suggested to me that I must have lifted something or worked too hard and that I h ad better do better the next time. My doctor assured me that this was nature’s way of eliminating an ill-formed embryo that would not have survived, clearing the way for a better-formed embryo with an improved chance at life.

    • Barry,

      I don’t know who you are, but you have a very high self righteous opinion about you. You talk as if you were a conservative preacher, shoving your narrow minded antiquated beliefs down peoples throats.

      Your voice not only barks but has a bitter bite that is a real turn off. You’re a bible thumper, quoting scriptures, meantime you are really a bully at heart. Its your way or the highway.

      You would love if everyone believed in organized religion, because it keeps everyone ORGANIZED.

      And don’t even start about woman’s rights? Women never had any rights since the beginning of time because of men just like you. And today men like you are still trying to tell them what they can and can’t do with their bodies.

      You make it sound as if a woman deciding on abortion is as thoughtless as spitting out a piece of unwanted gum, well its not.

      And because your not a woman you should keep your mouth closed on subjects you know nothing about.

      And about risky casual sex? Happens to be great, unbridled way of letting go and screaming like crazy with pleasure. Everyone takes risks in life and everyone dresses casually, but when people put both words together they become….like you.

      By the way, god your father created Adolf Hitler and every king throughout time that started every war, raped women and killed innocent children too.

      Men have always sought control and power which brought us to the exact place we are right this very moment. Living in a world filled with violence from men, not women.

      You are a living breathing example of how men continue to try and control, even now from your home computer, in your piss stained boxer shorts.

      Now thats birth control!

      If you don’t like the way John writes, go back to reading your bible. At least he has the courage to say what “he feels”, not how you feel. People own their own feelings, don’t like what you are reading then start your own site.

      Go away, you are contaminating the energy on this page.

      He’s not conservative, thats why I am on his page. He is human, thinks with his head and feels with his heart and when they get together he writes so beautifully with a perfect blend not too sweet and not too sour either.

      You Barry, are just bitter.

      • Catholic Joe I have noticed your subversive technique of gas lighting people through your comments.

        “Gas-lighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.”

        …this can include manipulating phrases, stating un-truths, doublespeak and using absolutes to dehumanize people.

        I am on to you.

    • Two things: 1. I’m curious to know where you got that statistic on abortion and 2. I’m curious to know what you interpret to be “scholars.” One thing beautiful about the bible is its many interpretations. God ensures to keep us on our toes.

  3. Jon, I disagree with you on most issues. I’m on the opposite side of the table. But I’ve been following you for a couple of years now because I’ve appreciate your thoughtful approach. I want to challenge my thought thoughts and conclusions and I therefore purposely seek out people who are to the very left and very right of me.

    But I must say……you’re simply becoming unhinged. You’ve simply devolved to ranting without making ANY attempt to understand.

    Which of course you apparently don’t need to since you have the monopoly of truth on your side.

    Sad to see.

    • Check back in four years or eight and see if you will be piping the same tune. Bottom Line: Trump is evil and the American people are about to find that out the hard way.

    • Oh for crying out loud. FIND SOMETHING TO DO, you jerk! You say nothing. Nothing of value, nothing of wisdom and certainly nothing of God. You’ve no clue and no chance of swaying anyone with your judgements. Go be self-congratulatory with the other tools. No one has to justify themselves to you.

  4. I agree with John on this because it takes that mindset to overcome that which in many respects can hardly be called human. It takes a burning zeal and desire to gather the strength and fortitude to say – never again will we allow this to happen.

    I would also say the folks who most disagree in that they support the new ‘regime’ are also the folks who had similar thoughts 8 years ago when that new administration was in power. They were just as vehement and determined to say this will never happen again. I can say that because at that time I didn’t understand and was very disappointed not because of race or color or any of that but because I believed much of the ‘fake news’ of that day.

    So remember, it isn’t that one side is completely right and the other completely wrong but that the human dynamic and condition has always and will always find differences that create friction, that friction creates intolerance and that intolerance creates hate and that hate creates fear. That is humanness and until we cross the new frontier of consciousness into the light of love it will continue.

    • Thing is, we have already had warnings of the disaster to come. The GOp was incontrol of the WH and Congress and the bottom fell out of the economy during the Bush2 years. The Republicans had control of the WH and Congress in 1928 and the bottom fell out fo the economy in 1929.

      The GOP has been pushing the exact same economic agenda during the Reagan and Bush 1 years as during Bush 2 and 1928 and always the same result. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

      Not to mention all of the other evils of the Republican nation party platform.

      No, we already know what is going to come. And while Republicans may encourage women to just lie back and enjoy it when they are raped, doesn’t make it any the less evil.

      • Not that being presented with actual evidence and real facts will make a difference…

        But please google: “Texas Candidate’s Comment About Rape Causes a Furor

        DALLAS, March 25— The Republican gubernatorial nominee apologized today for an off-the-cuff remark suggesting that some victims of rape should ”relax and enjoy it.””

        Please google: Clayton ‘rape victims should relax and enjoy it,’ Williams is funding TX Gov GOP nominee Greg Abbott

        Please google: The 8 Worst Things Republicans Have Said About Rape, Sex and Women’s Bodies

        Please google:
        Say goodnight, Todd Akin: Claire McCaskill’s opponent walks back comment on ‘legitimate rape’

        From, please google: Personal Foul
        A list collects controversial and embarrassing statements about rape made by Republican politicians.

  5. Joe Catholic – So you have a formerly pro-choice president (who now claims to be pro-life) who is also an unrepentant misogynist, bigot and serial liar? Doe his seeming agreement with you on this one issue make all of his manifest shortcomings ok? Is there no other way to work for the social changes you desire without empowering someone who denies climate change, threatens irresponsible use of military force, and has no experience in either government or foreign policy and very little understanding of our constitutional freedoms? Are your interests and priorities really so narrow that you are willing to overlook all the rest? As a Christian, what on earth do you think your God would think of Donald Trump?

    • Charly, you ask, “Are your interests and priorities really so narrow that you are willing to overlook all the rest?”

      The answer is “yes.” Many of us here have learned that some who comment here are one issue people only and are deaf to anything else.

      • You obviosly can’t see evil, no matter how many communion wafers you shove into your mouth. The idoloter of the golden calf and casinos you voted for has coerced his own wife to have an abortion, she refused. Its not that far a leap to believe that he has paid for other abortions when he commited adultry, which he has according to his own accord. Some one who hides behind a false name “Joe Catholic” is a peddler of lies…enjoy Hell.

    • You’re begging the question. I don’t see Donald Trump in the way you’ve defined him. At any rate, his personal sins are between him and God. I have no doubt Jesus loves him and if and when he repents of his sins will be forgiven.

      Meanwhile, he’s making excellent choices regarding his cabinet and other appointed positions and has promised to appoint conservative justices.

      From my Christian perspective, I like what I’m seeing so far.

      What I don’t understand about the blog host and his followers is how closed-minded and bigoted they are. Anyone who is not on the same page with them politically is a “bully” or worse. They refuse to allow for the possibility that we Christians who are politically conservative have taken that position in good faith and for the benefit of all.

      • “What I don’t understand about the blog host and his followers is how closed-minded and bigoted they are. Anyone who is not on the same page with them politically is a “bully” or worse. They refuse to allow for the possibility that we Christians who are politically conservative have taken that position in good faith and for the benefit of all.”

        If people write in such a manner which indicate that they are close-minded and/or a bully, it shouldn’t surprise them when they are treated that way. It’s regrattable and it is not loving, but it’s also human.

        There are a large number of people who are here solely to be trolls. They can be identified because they are obsessed with only one issue be it abortion or telling John that he his not a Christian.

        No one has any business saying whether or not John is a Christian because that is solely between God and JohnP.

        Having known a great many “conservative Christians” over the decades, I can no longer agree that position can be taken in good faith and for the benefit of all because if one studies the Republican party platform it is adamantly clear that it is not for the common good. It is solely to benefit rich, straight, white males.

        Other “conservative Christians” have made it to me over the decades that they have embraced the heresy of the prosperity gospel which is personal avarice, greed, and selfishness at work.

        Reading what “conservative Christians” write as comments also fails to convince me that “good faith and for the benefit of all” is what they desire. They are quite clear about their personal agendas which do not recognize all of humanity as their neighbors.

      • His personal sins are NOT simply “between him and God” when he abuses people publicly. That is nonsense reasoning and entirely unjustifiable from Scripture. Reviling and mocking are serious wicked sins.

        • Whoops-I read that wrong. I was referring to Trump. Have been so tired of hearing that line that Trump’s (public) sins are “between him and the Lord” that I misread in skimming. Apologies. Hope clarified.

          • Oddly enough, Melody, I figured you meant Trump. His sins are many and it suits his narcissism that they should be public. Because, sadly, he doesn’t think he is sinning. That’s the great tragedy, he thinks he is being smart to defraud, delude, embezzle, molest, etc.

  6. John, you are Right On. You see at a deeper level than most, and what you see is accurate. I’ve seen this develop over the last 40 years, every year more saddened at the direction an contingent of our country was going. There was hope with the Obama presidency, but I knew it would unleash the fascism that is the shadow of our country. I didn’t know so many people embrace fascism. That hurts my heart.

    Here is a quote from Carl Jung, the Swiss Psychiatrist AND OSS Agent 488 (under Allen W. Dulles) who helped the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency profile Hitler in order to defeat him. He wrote, “. . . there are people who live on a higher plane of knowledge because their perceptions and sensations are finer than those of other human beings. Such ‘seers’ are able to see manifestations of forces where ordinary people can see nothing.” You are one of those people, IMO.

    Thank you for standing up for Truth, for what is Real. You are a Light in the darkness. My Buddhist daughter-in-law quotes you on FB — because you speak Truth when so many others have no idea what is true anymore. Many others DO see what you see, and are banning together to protect what is precious and good about our country. But many will go to sleep — or ARE asleep already — because they cannot see what is Real and don’t want to be disturbed by the uncomfortable Truth. Your beacon of Truth is so important for those of us who are awake. Thank you, thank you.

    • Carl Jung, the occultist, who openly disdained God’s word, is not someone that believers align themselves with.

      Jung’s idea that some live on ‘higher’ planes of knowledge is opposite of what the bible teaches. And it certainly sets up a hierarchy where none should be. Much to man’s egoist disappointment, there is no such thing as Enlightenment.

      • You have NO idea who or what Carl Jung was. Some know-nothing has spoon-fed you. How sad! You are informed by an ideology — not from the Holy Spirit. Otherwise you would not make such uniformed statements. Jung knew the Bible inside and out, and brought it alive in ways that only Christian mystics could. May God forgive your ignorance.

        • Interesting, perhaps you can enlighten us to how Carl Jung’s psychology developed from contact with his “spirit-guide” who he named Philemon.

          While your at it – explain Carl Jung’s written and practiced conviction that spiritual reality is ultimately a construct of the human unconscious.

          Use the “force” Suzanne!

          • Nah. You are happy with the tidbits that support your belief. An ideology tells you what to believe, and you aren’t open to learning anything new. If you were, you could easily educate yourself on Jungian philosophy instead of just Googling a “clever” come-back.

            • Well aren’t you the snarky one….funny my questions were valid and remain so….yet, it’s clear your total contributions hardly qualify as clever or informative.

        • I actually know quite a bit about Jung & Freud. Not difficult to understand Jung. I feel compasdion for him that his own philosophy failed him.

          • Paul, you say, “I feel compasdion for him that his own philosophy failed him.”

            I assume you mean, “compassion”. Sorry, but I don’t see any compassion in your statement. You’re going to have to convince me that you feel compassion for Jung.

            Next, to say that “his own philosophy failed him” makes no sense. A person who understands Jung and his psychology/philosophy would never make that statement. However, if you said that Jung’s philosophy failed YOU, I would understand much better what you are trying to say. If you have studied Jungian theory and found that it disturbed you, that it was in opposition to your beliefs and ideology, I can respect that. His perspective of “reality” and the human experience is not for everyone. Just like there are 2 ways of seeing reality: one corresponds to Classical Physics (the material world at the organic level which is visible); and Particle Physics (the world of the subatomic which is invisible). Jungian thought has much in common with Particle Physics. In fact, Wolfgang Pauli (the Nobel prize-winning physicist) and Jung collaborated on some of Jung’s perspectives.

            As far as rejecting the Bible, you’ll have to show me evidence of that. Which of Jung’s 18 volumes on psychology have you read? Most of them make reference to Biblical passages and especially to Christ as being the pattern that humans should aspire to.

            I don’t know what you mean by, “Jung put his faith in Man.” Maybe that makes sense in your ideology, but it doesn’t make sense to a Jungian. Jung, above all else, emphasized the reality of the Soul as a prime component of his work. Very few religious leaders and teachers have come close (except the mystics) in making the Soul a living reality the way he did.

            Whoever taught you the things you’ve said here had an agenda against Jungian thought. If you feel comfortable believing them, then God bless.

            • Suzanne, I also asked Paul for sources for his allegations and have yet to see them. I too have read a lot of Jung and see no evidence for Paul’s assertions.

              • Thanks, Gloriamarie. I suspect that someone or ones have prejudiced him against Jung and he has not investigated for himself.

                • I suspect the same. In fact I was reminded of those who tell me “the Bible says” something it doesn’t even thought they have never read the Bible for themselves but were told it by someone else who had never read the Bible for themselves, ad nauseum.

                  Over the decades I’ve met several Christian Jungian psychologists and psychiatrists.

              • My sources are Jung himself.

                [I feel compassion for CG Jung because he was exposed to Christianity as a young man, but ventured far away from the truth of the bible and never returned.]

                The poor man suffered from, isolation, psychosis, schizophrenia, and toyed with his own madness while writing his depraved Red Book. (yes, I know some experts disagree, but that he could ‘control’ it does not impress me. )

                His closest colleagues called him ‘The Master Sorcerer’. I think he tried to camouflage his deep dependence on occult, magic, automatic writing, divination, spiritism, seances under the guise of ‘psychological science’. (all strictly forbidden by the God of the bible, and for good reason, it’s dangerous , destructive & ungodly. )

                Jung was determined to prove that Light/Dark, Good/Evil, had to be integrated & merge into one, for true actualization to take place.

                This is not possible. And, it is against God’s word. (What does light have to do with darkness?)

                Carl Jung’s ultimate blaspheme (which proves he is against God) was his teaching that, ‘Jesus Christ only had power because he was possessed by the ‘Savior Archetype’ and as a man, he was insane because he claimed to be God.”

                [Segal, Robt A. ‘The Gnostic Jung’, Princeton U. Press, 1992, pgs 181-193].

                The reality is, Carl Gustav Jung, is the Father of New Age Religion, a place where creative psychosis meets Shamanism.

                • Of course, you chose a source prejudicial to Jung to quote. Partisan sources are not impressive.

                  As for the so-called New Age stuff, that is merely the most recent name for the same-old, same-old, Gnostic dualism, neo-Platonic theosophic stuff that has been around since about 200CE.

                  Most certainly not invented by Jung.

                  • Then you are aware of the problems or short comings with the topographical and structural elements specific to the Freudian and Jungian psychoanalytical theories….this of course is hardly prejudicial – rather, academic and practical reality has assigned Jung to his rightful place in history and has moved on towards a more objective and less circumspect approach to human nature and concepts of spirituality.

                • Paul – I would add – Jungian and the entire psychoanalytical school has been eclipsed by the behavioral and cognitive schools of psychology.
                  While I personally think Jungian psychology is interesting – modern psychology and for that matter psychiatry – has a proven and documented track record of assisting individuals with mental health issues.
                  On the matter of spirituality – Jung simply provided an alternative construct of understanding IF of course, you can accept his premise of God as essentially an unconscious archetype (developing this point is rather lengthy). Of course – this is where the conflict begins and ultimately ends as the concepts of atonement and salvation are conspicuously absent.
                  Regardless, Jung’s work provided some fascinating insights and continues to find fertile ground with and in “contemplative spiritual” groups.

      • Paul, would you please provide some sources fro your assertions about Carl Jung? Because I have read a lot of Jung and have yet to see anything that resembles what you say of him.

        I also attended an extremely well-respected evangelical seminary where we were taught to use our critical thinking skills and the Pastoral Counseling department thought highly of Jung.

        Have you ever read any Jung yourself?

        • Yes, Gloriamarie, I have read Jung, and taken Joseph Campbell’s course twice.

          And I have studied/practiced, Freud, [& Anna Freud], Piaget, Carl Rogers, Eric Fromm, B.F. Skinner, Abraham Maslow, Ivan Pavlov, Alfred Adler, Gurdjieff, Zen Buddhism, Hagel, Hume, Descarte, Kant, native american religion, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Science of Creative Intelligence, The Bhgadvad Gita, Tao, I Ching, Pantajali’s Yoga Sutras, The Siddhis, every kind of Yoga, Hindu mantra meditation, T. Merton, McClaren, Spong, Keating, E. Tolle, D. Chopra, Einstein, Quantum Mechanics, Fermi, Maharishi, Feynman, John Hagelin, Theosophy, Transcendentalism, etc. , too long a list to mention here.

          Basically, I have a good Liberal Education, a degree in Fine Art & I’m very proficient in classical cello. (but i count it all rubbish!).

          • I see. You have dipped your toes in a lot of ponds. It would take fifty lifetimes to actually became an expert in all those fields/people.

            • Ditto. Fundies always try hard to make people think they are smarter than they really are—but the really smart people know better. How old is the Earth? Ask any fundie, and the answer you get will be 5,000 to 10,000 years tops. No one in their right mind takes these fundies seriously.

              • No, not rubbish, merely your prejudice. Entirely too many Christian teachers, ministers, psychologists disagree with you.

                If you know rubbish when you see it, you could see the rubbish that proof-texting in which you so often engage.

      • For those of you who are not aware of it, Christian fundamentalists like Paul are on record as being officially against all psychiatry and clinical psychology. They believe both are a creation of Satan because Sigmond Freud, the founder of modern psychology, just happened to be an atheist. They live in a bullshit world where all psychological problems are a direct result of the sin in the life of the person who has the problem—and if they will just accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior—all of their mental illnesses will just instantly disappear. And if it does not disappear, the person is still holding on to sin in their life as something precious. This is typical fundie bullshit that deserves no hearing in public space, and you would be crazy to listen to it.

        • Paul, as I suggested, Jung’s philosophy failed YOU. And that fine. And you interpret it through the ideology of your version of Christianity. And that’s fine. Incorrect, but fine for you because it reconciles the dissonance that you feel when you read that which contradicts your belief. But to make claims about Jung from your ideology is the problem. Those claims reflect YOU, not Jung. They tell volumes about your worldview, and demonstrate the lack of education in areas needed to understand Jungian thought. Jungian thought evidently disturbs the foundation of your “reality”, so you have to destroy its validity. I am saddened at how many times people who call themselves “Christians” need to destroy anything that disturbs them. Not at all according to what Jesus taught. BTW, your dependence on the Bible as one’s connection to God only began in the 16th century with Martin Luther. It’s called “Sola Scriptura”. There is a more authentic connection which was initiated by Jesus 2,000 years ago:

          John 14:15-17 (NIV)
          15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

          But if Sola Scriptura works for you, God bless.

          I won’t respond to your posts any more. I made a positive statement about John’s work, and you felt the need to discredit it. Again, I notice that certain “Christians” seem to need to do this often, as if their worldview needs to dominate (like in a theocracy). So debating is futile. And I have no interest in it.

          • I’m sure John P is happy to read Jungs quotes, as he’s in full agreement with Jung’s teachings. His church also embraces Gurdjieff’s (another occultist) teachings & ancient eastern mantra meditation (contemplative prayer) . As do many progressive churches. They have a right to offer what ever they wish to their congregation… but I always have concern about being honest to sincere seekers. Sometimes, a mishmash of philosophies & certain spiritual practices is not what is best for Jesus followers.

      • It tells me that truth is truth is truth where ever it is found because the ability to distinguish truth from falsehood is part of being created in the image and likeness of God which is common to all human beings.

        It also tells me basic principles apply.

        John P has a gift for exhortation which he speaks in a prophetic voice. All the prophets of the Bible hold up a mirror in front of their audience. When one dislikes the reflection, it indicates one is convicted by the prophets words and one can either heed them or not.

      • Wow! John respects the relationship with God practiced by people other than “Christians”. That respect is one element that drew me to his blog. I’m surprised to see people here who do not respect people of other religions. I see why they are defending Trump. Just sad to see them here.

        • Sounds a bit like Jesus to me. He didn’t have time for arrogance either. Too much of it in American evangelicalism. It does need to be spoken to firmly and firmly rebuked. Of course those on the receiving end don’t like it. But what if they had humility?

    • Right on Suzanne.
      Carl Young was – still is – a voice to listen to and be heard.
      The problem with Paul – below – is, he might listen in, but doesn’t hear.

  7. What’s the criteria for a pro-life President, Joe? That he simply says something about abortion procedure during the debate? Are you counting on his words? Just wondering. What are his pro-life credentials other than he is not Hillary? Did he donate to a crisis pregnancy center, has he been in pro-life protests or prayer vigils, has he attended the right to life marches, has he written legislation, voted on anything related to abortion, sought out facts or figures, written articles? What are his pro-life actions? He’s pro-life in the same way he respects all women. I’m sure at one point he’s probably said “No one is more pro-life than me.” Everything he says is absolute truth, right? Trump said it, you believe it, that settles it? He will back pedal on this – like Obamacare and like “locking up” Hillary – because he has no clue what he is doing, and really that’s his point. You elected a mad man, the tweets show he has no restraint and is a one-man PR nightmare. Trump will be the most powerful man in the whole world in a few weeks. Certainly, given his very unusual behavior for a president-elect, aren’t you are a teeny bit concerned? (PS: I DO have pro-life credentials – previously a speaker, protester, and served time in jail for this belief – yet, I won’t support Trump)

    • And you believed him. Roe v. Wade happened when I was a little boy. In the years since, we have had several “pro-life” Republican presidents, some of whom have appointed Supreme Court justices. But none have attempted to overturn Roe v. Wade. And Trump is no different. That you believe him suggests you’ve had too much of that Kool-Aid.

      • No one professing to be prolife in politics has done a whole lot about it. Voting Trump on this issue was a complete selling of the soul for a shot in the dark.

        • The Republican Party needs abortions more desperately than the women who want to have one. If abortion goes away, so does one of the major issues that fires up their voters. If abortion on demand did not exist, it would be essential for the Republican Party to create it and institutionalize it—which is exactly what they, Paul Weyrich, and The Heritage Foundation did in the 1970s. A stacked U.S. Supreme Court might overturn it in a high-profile court case, but you will not see republican Party officials with a hand in it—because they will get punished big-time at the ballot box—and they know it.

          • The GOP use of the abortion issue is a classic manipulative technique to distract people from what the GOP really wants to do.

            Where is all the outcry by those who would dictate what is or is not moral over the GOP’s plan to privatize Social Security and Medicare, putting the lives of millions and millions of children, disabled, elderly, handicapped, and vets at risk?

              • I should think Jesus might well feel that way about a good deal of their national party platform. I doubt though that Jesus hates anyone because God is love and God loves all of us.

                It constantly amazes me that those who think abortion is evil fail to see the evil in the party platform. The GOP wishes to cut funding to many programs that allow people to survive.

                Can’t help but also notice, Charles, that the loudest pro-fetus voices have yet to do anything to help you and I with our daily financial struggles. They claim they don’t want Big Gummit, yet don’t lend a hand where they know there is a need.

                I remember recommending to you, Charles, to create an Amazon grocery wishlist as I have done. And let it be known it is there.

  8. Is he really pro-life or just pro-birth? Can a person be pro-life if they are anti-women, anti-Muslims, anti-disabled people, anti-POC, anti-living-wage, anti-environment, anti-health-care and pro-nuclear-weapons?

    As a Christian, I am not at all happy irrespective of political differences.

    • Congratulations on completely misrepresenting everything I said. You may be surprised to learn that doing that completely invalidates any point you are trying to make.

      For the record, pro-birth is a real thing. I don’t think there’s anything good about killing embryos and fetuses and neither does it make me happy.

      I didn’t mention policy, I spoke about Trump himself.

      Perhaps you would like to read what I wrote again and look for the meaning that was clearly given in my text instead of insulting me for things that exist in your mind only.

      • And they complain about the left insulting them with ad hominems… Seriously. The lack of respect and extreme right-need is why others like me won’t vote Republican anymore. Something for the GOP to consider about getting that mandate they lack.

      • Patricia, I am sorry to say this person distorts and twists anything said to him. He chooses to believe lies about people, attributing things to them that they have never said. I am convinced he is about ten years old due to this lack of reasoning ability. his insistence on his way all the time, and his desire to cause trouble.

          • While I realize that is true, Patricia, it is the conclusion I have been forced to come to. Can’t help but notice he doesn’t contradict me, either.

            He (or she possibly) posts under multiple names on occasions, all saying the same things. He is incapable of staying on topic and has an unhealthy, possibly pathological obsession with abortion and is not able to talk logically and reasonably on any subject. His devotion to Trump borders on idolatry. He is a troll who delights in all the attention. He suckers people into discussion with him. I need to practice what I preach and ignore him.

      • I am not exactly sure what your question is, but I will say that I did not include the death penalty in my list because I was sticking to things that I know Trump said. If he spoke on the death penalty, I have missed it.

  9. No one really knows the big picture.

    Take heart John P, there is nothing new under the sun. High blood pressure, anxiety, and insomnia are probably not the way to go.

    As a Christian, I’m greatly relieved that US Economy is picking up (whereas a Hillary win would have spelled more doom). I think that many of our social ills were magnified because of deep economic insecurities.

    Since Nov 8, there is already an opening up of opportunities for all Americans. In my town, 1/2 finished construction projects that had been sitting fallow for 3 years, are now well on their way to completion. Empty store fronts (having been closed for years) are starting to turn the lights on again.

    Thank you God.

  10. YES! Still speaking out, even with knocking knees and a sick stomach. Our brothers and sisters are not anymore safe than they were the day after the election. We cannot just let this all fade away. We must continue to ring the bell.

  11. i enjoy your articles and this one is also well thought out. as far as God using evil for good, you sure can’t prove it by me. it is as you once said john, heresy is in the eye of the beholder.

  12. Eighty-one percent of Evangelicals have fervently prayed and God answered their prayers. Trump was elected. Some went as far as to say he is God’s anointed. This story is repeated among the Israelites in the Old Testament when they did not want God to reign over them. “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. Later the people mourned their decision: And all the people said to Samuel, “Pray for your servants to the Lord your God, that we may not die, for we have added to all our sins this evil, to ask for ourselves a king.” When people raise up a human being to lead because they believe him to be a panacea, it is idolatry. This country will rue its decision. It may not be today, but it will come.

    • I’m with Gloriamarie on this. John has expressed much of what I think about this election. I won’t try to say it better because I can’t. Anyone who would believe that any god would be in favor of Dump is plainly to mental ill to be taken seriously. As for the person who said that Dump’s supposed nominations to his cabinet were to be admired, I simply pity her. For she is totally lacking in humanity.
      Thank you John. I often agree with you. This is certainly one of those times.

      • Charlie wrote “As for the person who said that Dump’s supposed nominations to his cabinet were to be admired, I simply pity her.”

        Every single one of Trump’s proposed Cabinet posts is unfit and unqualified for those positions, as is Trump.

        But nominating a war criminal is simply bizarre, if not treasonous.

        OTOH, there will be so many conflicts of interest, so much emolument, that even the next Congress will have no choice but to impeach Trump.

        Of course, then we will be left with someone a psychologist of my acquaintance considers to have all the pathology of a psychopath.

    • Hi Patti. When George W. Bush was elected President, the old ladies would write to the editor of the local metropolitan newspaper and say:

      “Why can’t you all see it? Our nice Mr. Bush is the anointed one of the Lord. He is a very special vessel set aside by the Lord himself for the great benefit of our country.”

      It was not too long until those letters quit coming, and they were nowhere to be found after the war in Iraq went wrong and the economy crashed in October 2008.

      So much for the anointed ones of the Lord!!!

  13. We are already seeing shades of things to come. Look at his misogynist and racist picks for his cabinet. Look at already-broken promises… I will not give him a chance. Look at his admitted ties to Russia and the admitted-interference by Russia in the electronic voting systems. We’ve been hacked. We’ve been had. I’m sick of the deceits. I believe he is a very sick man.

      • How old are you? Ten?

        please google: The White Nationalists Who Support Donald Trump

        Please google:
        A White Supremacist Black Swan?
        Why Donald Trump’s fringe white nationalist supporters matter.


        Please google:
        Top Nazi leader: Trump will be a ‘real opportunity’ for white nationalists

        Please google: Meet The Members Of Donald Trump’s White Supremacist Fan Club

        Please google: Meet The Members Of Donald Trump’s White Supremacist Fan Club

  14. The hate from both sides is absolutely disgusting! No matter who you voted for in this election, you are being bullied and trashed….funny that a bunch of so called Christians can sit at their computers and trash each other…over who won the election!!! The funny thing is as Amercans we all have the right to vote for who we want to, and we do not have to tell anyone who we vote for or WHY! This entire election has been horrible, and continuing the hate and division helps no one! We are told by the blog host to love and accept everyone…is that only who he thinks are acceptable of that love? I love all people no matter race, religion, color, or sexual oreintation, all are creations of the Lord and should be loved and treated as such. But, I expect the same in return….I do not condone hate, bullying, or any type of such awful behaviour! I also do not see the bashing towards Trump and his supporters as helpful, or productive. If you think those who voted for him are being deceived and are bigiots and racists good for you…have at it. Same arguments could be made for Hillary voters…but again at the end of the day who is this helping? Are you that desperate to continue to spread the hate and division you so loudly speak out against?? Because guess what that works both ways, you say that all conservative republicans, are hateful bigots for voting for Trump….here is my question…are you not being the same thing by spewing your constant hate against anyone who does not walk your line of what you think is acceptable? You want to hate Trump, that is your right…but hating those who support him and bashing them is BULLYING! Just like what you say Trump is doing….you want to stand up for those you feel Trump is against go for it, but BULLYING , and screaming and the constant tantrums help no one….one might say from some of the posts here that those against Trump and his supporters are just as biggoted and racist towards those they do not agree with. Face it at the end of the day you can fight, yell and name call all you want, but you will not change anyones mind with that attitude, the election is over so you will not get someone to vote differently, and why do you get to be the all knowing authority on what is right and wrong for our country? The Hillary supporters are never going to agree with the Trump supporters and vice versa, You can sit here all day and fight and argue and bash each other but it solves nothing, and all it does is create more hate and division, which is good for nobody! You want to be sad and angry that Hillary did not win, fine….you want to live so angry and hateful? Fine….but at the end of the day you are only hurting yourself…I used to really enjoy your blog, but I came here for hope and love and acceptance, the constant hate, and bashing, and bullying is not what I look for in what is supposed to be a Christian Preachers blog….it has come to the point that if you are not LGBTQ, Black, or Muslim…you seem to not be accpeted here…while you are screaming and hating against those who do not fall into those categories you are letting it be known that you are loudly against the rest of us who you believe voted against your beliefs….guess what Hillary voters voted against our beliefs…I choose to understand both sides, I get why people voted for Hillary, and why people voted for Trump. I choose not to bash anyone for their right to vote and for their beliefs….I hope that all of you who are so hateful and angry can find some peace, and stop all the hate and division you are creating…I truly cannot imagine living my life so angry..I did not vote for Obama or agree with anything he has done, but for 8 years I have lived my life and Prayed and treated everyone with respect…even those who voted for something I did not agree with, and I will continue to do the same…hate is a poison that grows and ruins..I choose not to live that way. I have Jesus in my heart…not hate.

    • I agree with you that we can’t continue to treat each other as we have, but I will also not stand by and watch the removal of hard fought rights by religious groups (people) or hatefully ignorant people.

  15. Jesus’ response to corruption. Just sayin’.

    Matthew 23 New International Version (NIV)

    23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

    5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

    8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

    Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees

    13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

    15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

    16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

    23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

    25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

    27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

    29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

    33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

  16. I don’t know what I found more entertaining, the click-bait tripe from the Cishet middle class white guy who will be just fine no matter what, or the responses from all you suckers who took the bait. Matt Walsh in progressive form, all about the traffic to his site, clicks and shares of his content, and seats in his church

  17. I’m with you, brother. I was raised Mennonite(still am) and was taught and have advocated “the quiet in the land” concept. I believe with all my heart that now is the time to stand up and proclaim ourselves in the love of Christ. It doesn’t do us any good to hate back, but we as Jesus followers must be heard in this time, not just in our country, but worldwide. I am sickened by the violence and naked greed in our world. Lord have mercy.

  18. Thank you. I can’t stomach our country run by Trump. I know good people who support Trump and I don’t get it. They can’t see how dangerous he is and what a threat he is to our country and our humanity. I believe we are already worse off. It is hard to be silent, I’ve tried because I fear the backlash. They don’t get it, I will not accept it, a Trump presidency is not OK. Thank you for the validation.

    • Not at all, Joe Catholic, we have heard what Trump says and have seen what he does…

      … which proves who he is.

      The things you believe about Hillary Clinton are unsubstantiated rumours and suspicions blasted over social media……some of which are already decided as unfounded.

      You are not even swallowing a gnat rather you are gulping empty air.

      • there are many false stories out there

        woe to those who spread lies

        thank God he has allowed us to see the truth of Trump

        may everyones eyes be opened

        and may we all resist the will of man we see

        and choose the will of God who is unseen

        and by faith choose to love














          He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

          You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. In my opinion, she was off-base.”

          “Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that — the face of our next president!?”

          “I think I’m much more competent than all of them. I mean, say what you want, the World Trade Center came down during his time.”

          “Knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay the legal fees.”

          “If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, which as everyone knows is ISIS’s ultimate trophy, I can promise you that the pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been president because this would not have happened.

          About a protester:
          “I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher, folks.”

          “I moved on her and I failed. I’ll admit it. I did try and f*** her. She was married. I moved on her like a b***, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.”

          “All I know is what’s on the Internet.”

          No need to have a trial or weigh the evidence there it is IN HIS OWN WORDS,

          don’t be fooled by this man, don’t be deceived.

    • Well, he is only about believing what he feels like believing. Evidence and facts, even when he demands them, are ignored. I used to think he was sixteen years old but I’ve reduced that number.

    • His intention was to mock and it’s wasn’t the only occasion.

      Policies? Gambling with Social Security and Medicare on the stock exchange is one policy that threatens the disabled. Not too mention, children, the elderly, the handicapped, veterans…

      If you really wish to be informed,

      please google:
      I’m a disabled American. Trump’s policies will be a disaster for people like me.

      Please google: Disability Rights Advocates Are Terrified Of A Donald Trump White House

      Please google: Trump Win Brings Uncertainty On Disability Policy

      Please google: An anti-Trump disabled boy was booed at a rally. The next day, he got to meet President Obama.

      Please google: A Trump presidency would threaten programs like Social Security. Here’s how we know.

    • It is no secret that before he ran for office, on his show the Apprentice, during past interviews and during his campaign Trump mocks those he thinks are weak. He thinks in terms of losers and winners.

      He is not a strong man, rather, by definition he is a bully.

  19. “Eighty-one percent of Evangelicals have fervently prayed and God answered their prayers. Trump was elected. Some went as far as to say he is God’s anointed.”

    If that braying jackass is “God’s anointed” then I am a head of lettuce. If you prayed for him to be elected, look out: you just got what you asked for. And may God protect all of us.

  20. “Linda, I am sorry for your loss. Please accept my condolences. I know this was not God’s will for your family and yes, God weeps with your tragic loss.”

    Well said Gloriamarie. If there is one thing that makes me grind my teeth it is when well-meaning (????) do-gooders claim a tragedy is “God’s will.”

  21. Scott, I think a lot of the time, people say things like that because they don’t know what to say. When some horrible tragedy occurs over which we have no control, it can be terrifying to realize horrible thigs happen.

    I also think people have some twisted notion that if they are Christians nothing bad will ever happen to us. The NT talks about us being safe in Jesus but I don’t believe that implies personal safety, but is discussing salvation.

    And then, of course, some people say stuff like that because it’s a way of saying “I don’t want to be involved with what happened to you.”

    • “And then, of course, some people say stuff like that because it’s a way of saying ‘I don’t want to be involved with what happened to you.'”

      Personally I think one of the first lessons people need to learn in life is that it is not always easy and not always happy, and it is incumbent on those of us who profess Christ to be present for them in times of trouble.

  22. I don’t actually believe Trump is pro-life anymore than I believe he’s a true believer. I think he’s just saying that to get people to vote for him. I guess we’ll have to wait and see what his behavior shows us.

  23. John, You are I are thinking alike. Here is my facebook post from one day before your post appeared here:
    This is the second time in my life when an event has shaken me to my core, in a way that feels violating so personally and deeply.

    And in each case people were present to use the words “move on” or “move forward.”

    To me, these words sound like something else.

    They sound like “be quiet,” “get in line,” “get onboard,” and “play nice.” They sound like “look away,” “pretend it didn’t happen,” and “go back to the way things were.”

    Frankly, they mean “you are making me uncomfortable bringing these things to light, and it might mean I will have a moral choice to make, so I’d really appreciate it if you shut up now.”

    And that’s the thing.

    Moving forward — truly moving forward — includes none of the above.

    Moving forward means seeing, it means noticing. It means not denying that you saw what you saw and heard what you heard. It means noticing abuse and slander and misuse of power and people being harmed. It means prioritizing people over anyone’s personal agenda and personal kingdom.

    Moving forward means speaking up. It means advocating for those who are harmed. It means engaging on behalf of the powerless, not blindly supporting the powerful.

    Moving forward means using all the privilege and voice and liberty you’ve been given to lift up and share liberty and advocate for the right of people who have been without.

    Moving forward means being willing to endanger some of your own popularity and VIP status in order to make it possible for others to have equal status and equal access to liberties you have had.

    So, yes, I’m moving on. I’m moving forward. It just may not look like you’d like it to.

  24. This post captures exactly how I’ve been feeling … From the sleepless nights to the upset stomach and the tears clouding my vision. Thank you for so accurately describing the anguish that, apparently, I’m not alone in feeling.

  25. Thank you, John. I too cannot “get over it” and continue to be appalled by Trump’s post-elction words and actions. He is the very antithesis of everything Christ taught. I pray that those who see this will call out his distortion of Christian values and the American character. May God grant us vision, courage and strength to stand up for others by standing against the evil this man represents.

  26. No, you don’t have to get over it.

    This is serious—not like when Obama got elected and the Republicans made juvenile and erroneous claims.

    What Trump has clearly proposed during his campaign promotes the abuse of human rights and dignity. He is now doing a short term damage control to placate people into complacency.

    In addition the posture of deception continues in the words of Trump’s advisor Bannon who appears to be a purveyor of misinformation and megalomania, ” In his first interview outside of the conservative website Breitbart News since the election, Steve Bannon said that he thinks “darkness is good.” [and he says] “Dick Cheney. Darth Vader. Satan. That’s power. ”

    Does this look like God’s wisdom to anyone?

    Whose team of “all stars” is Steve Bannon on?

    Sound like Bannon named it himself.

    The dark side.

  27. Here’s what I cannot understand, April, how can anyone defend support of Trump when one looks over his Cabinet picks. His recommended Attorney General thinks that protections for disabled students creates problems in our school systems, his DHS wants to send peaceful protestors to Gitmo,l and all of them are white supremacists.

    I could go on and on abut why bother and if there are any who don’t believe what I said about the Cabinet picks, please google it.

    • Catholic Joe does not represent the majority of people I know who voted for Trump. Many of them (although they still think they did the right thing by voting for Trump) are nervous and rightfully so. There is a fringe element of fanatics, like Catholic Joe, in every group.

      We should make friends with those who voted for Trump or who spoiled their ballot by voting third party— who are realistic in their assessment of Trumps’ aptitude and character—knowing they are honest— but were looking for change. Many of them were hoping to see better people picked for Cabinet positions. Many of them never voted for Romney in the first place and they rejected Giuliani in the Primaries in 2008. So we should be open to discussion with those people because they understand how bad this could get.

      • April, I do my best to ignore the trolls who frequent this site.

        “but were looking for change”

        I simply cannot accept that as a reason for voting for Trump because his character has been apparent since the 1970s. He is in it for no one except himself and if people actually listen to what spews from his mouth, they would have heard it.

        “Many of them were hoping to see better people picked for Cabinet positions. ”

        Upon what did they pin these baseless hopes. We all saw who he surrounded himself with during the campaigns. There was no logical reason to believe he would appoint decent, let alone qualified people.

        A vote for Trump, a vote for a third party candidate, not voting at all is basically saying one supports authoritarianism, bigotry, destruction of the system of checks and balances, discrimination, fascism, gynophobia, homophobia, intolerance of those who disagree, lack of Constitutional process, lack of due process, misogyny, racism, rape, sexism, sexual assault and/or molest, transgenderphobia, uncontrolled guns, white supremacy, nd xenophobia.

        I say this because all of these things were out there during the campaigns. They were not hidden but in our faces.

        Then there is the matter of the Republican Party National platform, also out there , not hidden but in our faces.

        If people such as those you know did not mean to vote for such evil, how do they now intend to stand against it?

          • I have no idea what you are talking about because I very clearly qualified my use of “people such as those” with “you know” which is in reference to April’s use of people she knows who voted for Trump.

            Please read more carefully.

            • There is a flaw in your ‘us and them’ way of thinking.

              “People such as those” are diverse not singleminded. They are not one entity joined at the hip.

              Those who voted for Trump who are not sold out to Trump will be the people you work with to resist Trump.

              Go watch Shindler’s List again.

              How could Shindler have protected the Jews under his care without compromising and associating with the enemy?


              If you won’t do it then I hope others will.

              • I fear you are a troll because you have chosen to ignore the context of what you quoted. Which you quoted out of context.

                Everything you say here is based on a misreading of what I wrote. And now it feels as if you have deliberately chosen to misread me because I have already corrected you.


                • “By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” – Confucius

                  You can call anyone a troll. You seem to do it when you cannot understand that someone may disagree with your methods and not be your enemy at the same time.

                  Gloriamarie I think you are fighting for a good cause but the way to peace is through understanding not making enemies.

        • Yeah, April, I was trying to have a serious discussion with you and was attacked. It happens. …sigh…

          Still interested in having a serious discussion, April.

              • You asked me,

                “If people such as those you know did not mean to vote for such evil, how do they now intend to stand against it?”

                I will ask them when the times comes . I don’t think they realize they voted for evil yet.

                • I also liked what Dmary said :

                  ” I would love it if my Christians friends would stop attending and supporting the evangelical churches they attend. My friends are angry at the rhetoric coming from the pulpits about how God has ordained this. There are ways to fight back such as protests by refusing to give tithes and offerings in these places that excuse the hatred, racism, and misogyny, and crude behavior. For people who say this election was from God, then Hitler, Stalin, and others who have committed mass genocide must have been from God as well. They use scriptures to justify the unjustifiable. Shame on them.”

                  I put much of the responsibility on the leaders of the churches who are influencing people like my friends. I feel bad for them.

                  • Christian teachers and leaders who teach and preach bad stuff have special consequences waiting for them. Leading other people astray is seriously bad.

                  • Although, I am starting to believe that ignorance may indeed be an excuse. Not everyone has the ability to distinguish satire or fake news or to tell truth from fiction, particularly when it comes presented with authority. And when that authority is so accomplished in telling bald-faced lies and in tarnishing the reputation of good, honest people, many will believe without question especially when it plays into their biases and prejudices. Trump’s campaign beautifully demonstrated that a lie told many times gains the ring of truth. So much so that facts cannot be entertained.

    • “protections for disabled students creates problems in our school systems”

      It does. That is why the disabled need their own schools, and to stop holding us normies back.

  28. God, what crashing bores you people can be. The more you yammer the more sleepy I get.

    (YAWN) See you in the morning. Unless I see you first.

  29. “We must be careful what we say. No bird resumes its egg…

    (pause) That’ll keep ’em guessing” ~ Emily Dickinson (Julie Harris), THE BELLE OF AMHERST

  30. Thanks again John. You help me to feel not so alone. I would love it if my Christians friends would stop attending and supporting the evangelical churches they attend. My friends are angry at the rhetoric coming from the pulpits about how God has ordained this. There are ways to fight back such as protests by refusing to give tithes and offerings in these places that excuse the hatred, racism, and misogyny, and crude behavior. For people who say this election was from God, then Hitler, Stalin, and others who have committed mass genocide must have been from God as well. They use scriptures to justify the unjustifiable. Shame on them.

    • Drmary, be moe than happy to help your friends understand how God could not possibly have ordained this and that only bigots, racists, white supremacists and xenophobes think so. Yeah, strong language, but the only people I know who voted for him either in person or on social media don’t seem to care what a despicable person he is. He has embraced evil and anyone who voted for him, whether they meant to to not, also voted for evil.

  31. John:
    Another great blog., yes indeed, the America that we Canadians have come to love will overcome the Cancer, that is now infecting America., no one should be quiet., we can see already the damage that Trump and his cronies are going to bring to the U.S. and it is scary., and sickening. All those people who voted for him saying ‘OH NO’, what is it they did not get during the campaign., was the hatred of Obama and Clinton really that intense? Wow., a huge wake up is needed., Satan has created this domain., reading the comments and people talking about having faith., Yes, I believe that Jesus and God are respecters of no person, but love us all., it is what we choose that belies everything else., And America really chose Hillary, but because of a Republic she is not the leader that is needed., instead we have the Spawn of Satan..Lord have mercy., we will not be silent., we will continue to watch, listen and respond in kind., if great things happen we will rejoice, if we go back to the bad old days, we will shout loud and fight..Amen..Thanks again John for your consent care for all of Humanity..

  32. The consent theme behind much of this is to compare Trump to Hitler. To do so is to believe Republicans and Independents who voted for Trump are Nazis.


    Have you lost your freaking minds?
    The crucible which propelled a fringe hate-group named the Nazis to power was more than 8 years of a Black President. It was losing the Great War. It was having your economy torn apart, combat in the streets – not protests, but people murdering one another wholesale. It was a brief, ephemeral recovery with weak democratic institutions the the Great Depression itself which devastated the banking and industry of the country. Once again, political gangs waged mass combat in the streets. People lost their jobs, life savings and their hope.

    We, in America in 2016 have experienced NONE OF THIS. Both Republican and Democratic Parties are Centrists, not extremists.

    Also, for those clambering about Hillary and the Popular Vote ~ two things:
    1) we live in a Republic, not a Democracy. If you think the Electoral College is unfair, then what is your opinion of the Senate ~ you know; the place where Wyoming and California each get TWO votes despite their VASTLY different populations yet each has an equal say to which laws are passed and which US Supreme Court (and Federal Court) Justices are appointed? Plus, no matter what, each Senate allotment is winner-take all each election. At least States can pass laws internally to determine a more democratic distribution of the Electoral Votes.
    2) Hillary may have won the MOST votes, but she didn’t win the MAJORITY. No one did. Hillary didn’t win over 50% of the Popular Vote thanks to the Green and Libertarian Parties.

    • When Hitler became Chancellor of Germany, very few Germans were Nazis. But they were disillusioned with their society and their government. They were strongly motivated by fear. And Hitler fed into those fears. He gave names to them, gave them enemies to hate. Unfortunately, a great many of those enemies were their fellow-Germans, but a great many more lived outside the borders of Germany, and once Germany invaded those nations, the set about the business of cleansing society of those elements.
      It doesn’t matter if the US didn’t follow exactly the same pattern to bring them to this point. What matters is that it was EXACTLY the same rhetoric Hitler used to rise to power that fueled Trump’s rallies. He spoke to their fears and gave them enemies to hate. That includes 2.75 American Muslims, 52 million Latino Americans (who all get called Mexicans, regardless of whether or not they were born here or what country their families came from), tens of millions of LGBT Americans, liberals, socialists. And because of the kind of mentality that appeals to, any non-white Americans got lumped in there, too, which is why the white supremacists are feeling empowered.
      Hitler, once he came to power, began by removing civil rights from segments of the population. Trump has called for a nationwide registry of Muslims, which is how Hitler started with the Jews, and which would be unconstitutional. Pence doesn’t believe LGBT have the right to employment, that they should have the right to marry, or have any protections against discrimination, and he advocates rounding them up and putting them in camps, just like Hitler did. In other words, no civil rights. And like it or not, there are a fair number of Trump supporters who are fully in favor of such camps. I encounter them online often.
      So when they come for the Muslims, will you be silent? When the come for the gays, will you be silent? When they come for the Latinos, will you be silent? When they come for you, who will speak up for you? History IS repeating itself.

      • “So when they come for the Muslims, will you be silent? When the come for the gays, will you be silent? When they come for the Latinos, will you be silent? When they come for you, who will speak up for you? History IS repeating itself.”

        Indeed. And when it gets to NO support, come see me…

        roflol (><)

        • “JohnP in no way speaks for most American Christians–just a tiny minority who have turned their backs on the church and scriptures in order to make friends with the world.

          The vast majority of us practicing Christians in America are very happy Trump was elected and very relieved we dodged Hillary and her policies.”

          I got a BIG FAT NEWS FLASH FOR YA, PAL:

          You may THINK the numbers are on your side, and I can only speak for my own home church, but there’s a LARGE CONGREGATION OF UNITED METHODISTS IN UPSTATE NEW YORK who awoke DEVASTATED on the ninth when they heard that the most HATEFUL BIGOT ever to be elected to office since SENATOR JESSE HELMS had just been handed THE KEYS TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

          I want you to understand what you’ve just done. You gave the office in which the man who defeated Osama Bin Laden worked to a braying jackass with no brakes on either his mouth or his brains (of which some of us are wondering if he has any).

          I pray that what I am about to predict does not happen (really because it means I shall die along with everyone else), but when that orange-headed orangutan says the wrong thing to Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong-Un or Li Keqiang and one of them hits that big red button and the Big Hot One is on and you realize that it will be Curtains in a matter of minutes, think of me, and remember that I warned you. Because you have brought this on all of us. Oh and don’t bother to come looking to me for forgiveness. I managed to survive twenty-seven years of AIDS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and Fibromyalgia. I shall probably already have forgiven you. But don’t count on it. I’d prefer you go into the light with that much doubt on your head.

      • Mike Pence made this a part of his platform when he ran for governor,

        “Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behaviour.”

        How many steps away is the VP from taking an interest in trying to influence policy makers and legislators on this matter? Especially when he has a bent towards blaming gays for health issues.

        It would be like going backwards in time.

        • I agree with your comment, although I think it would be very challenging to name an organisation that encourages behaviours that spread HIV. LGBTQ2IA (or as we like to say, the alphabet people) organisations have worked very hard at encouraging safe practices resulting in the rate of transmission in the Queer community being very low. A population that is showing a startling rate of transmission is seniors. When they were young, all they had to guard against was pregnancy (or so they thought). With the introduction of Viagra, and with people living much longer and in more health, and being past the fertile years, seniors are enjoying themselves without protection.

          When Pence says “institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behaviour”, it isn’t a clearly stated thought. If he means institutions promoting the adoption of safe sex practices, then I am in agreement. If he means institutions that engage in brainwashing torture practices in the misguided belief that sexual orientation can be changed, then I am heartily in disagreement.

          • Warning! Ignorance alert!
            Per World Health Organization, a full 70% of HIV infections on earth were contracted by heterosexual sex. In some nations, as much as 25% of the heterosexual population is infected. In NO nation is that high a percentage of gay people infected.
            I could say straight peoples spread AIDS, based on that, but then I’d sound as ignorant as you.

  33. All of you crack me up with your self righteous indignation. You aren’t on the right side of history you are simply a part of it. You aren’t better either…the contradictions on the left speak to that well enough. But you have plenty of denial though so keep clinging to that because just as it took a Bush to get an Obama, it took an Obama to get a Trump. So please don’t get over it. In fact I encourage all of you to remain bent and unyielding because that is exactly the attitude that got you to this moment in time.

  34. Thanks anonymous. This blog has a lot of unloving sounding comments. I appreciated your clear perspective. Extending the grace we have received leads to the peace we seek. Thanks Jake

  35. I’m not okay with this. – Too bad, grow up
    I’m not getting over it. – Well its get over it or its civil war
    I’m not going to accept it. – See above answer. Your call buddy
    I’m not going to move on. – You will or you will be steamrolled over
    I’m not going to shut up. – Yes, yes you will, this is not the Bush years, when we tell you to shut up, you will, or we will force you to via your businesses or job. You play dirty, so can we.

  36. It’s funny how democrats can’t accept democracy and the decisions “the people” make. You’d rather give away hundreds of years of a working and admired political system than let someone win, who isn’t “your candidate”.
    I’m not even American, so I shouldn’t care, but it’s just sad.

  37. No no and no. This country was founded on freedom of religion, not freedom of Christianity. Separation of church and state needs to prevail.

  38. “This is the first time that I will disagree with you, dear John. God knows better. He is placing all leaders in place for His purpose. At some point, we do need to practice faith.”

    I never heard such rubbish. You’re attempting to give God the credit for Trump; who then do we blame for Obama? The same God could not possibly have put them both in office; they are polar opposites. President Obama led this nation with complete dignity and composure. The Donald looks like he smells bad (and I would bet money that he does, at least when he speaks).

    Sorry guys; you can’t have it both ways no matter how much you may wish it to be so.

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