The Naked Hypocrisy of a Christian Disney Boycott

Conservative Christians have crawled out of the church pew woodwork to rend their garments and beat their breasts, at word that Disney’s live action adaptation of Beauty and the Beast will feature an openly gay character. They’ve loudly promised to boycott the film and Disney itself in spiritual protest.

This news alone is of little surprise, as it’s been the M.O. for these opportunistic, self-righteous Bible-thumpers who never waste an opportunity when there’s publicity to be had, damnation to be dispensed, and joy to be squashed. Such unprovoked jerkery is what we now expect from the American Religious Right, who have long since jettisoned the loving, compassionate, redemptive justice work of a poor-loving Jesus—and gone all in with the glossy, homophobic pulpit bullies who arouse their passions. Their continued persecution of the LGBTQ community and anyone who supports them, is a sad song we’ve all gotten used to them singing.

But right now their sanctimonious diatribes and their public castigation ring more hollow than usual, because to offer these things they’ve had to take a break from the work of breathlessly and violently defending the three-time married, adultering, vile, misogynistic, professed p*ssy grabber that many of them voted into office. To ratchet up the energy to launch a witch hunt about a fictional gay character, they’ve had to pause from doubling down on supporting a flesh and blood President guilty of Olympic levels of lying, vulgarity, and a seemingly endless stream of decisions targeting the poorest, sickest, most vulnerable—not to mention the water we drink, the air we breath, and the planet we stand on. (Thank God there aren’t any Bible verses addressing any of that stuff, or these folks would be looking pretty darn ridiculous right about now.)

It turns out that when the rubber meets the road (or the campaign trail), “Biblical morality” is far less of a concern when it’s the guy who claims he’s against abortion, the one who promises you a Supreme Court Seat, the one who can keep your state Red. Then, the selectively parsed out words of the Scriptures become far less pressing, the life of Jesus much less critical—and a stranger’s sexual activity no longer a priority. In that case, they can in one breath lament the corruptible influence of LGBTQ people simply trying to live quiet, undisturbed lives—and in the next breath they can pledge allegiance to a foul-mouthed predator who’s repeatedly treated woman as utilitarian sex objects.

And this is the pathetic, hypocritical corner the Evangelical Church has now painted itself into. By throwing its muscle, money, and manpower behind such an unapologetic, reprehensible, amoral human being like Donald Trump—it has lost the very small patch of moral ground it had left on which to stand to point the finger at any professed sinful behavior. They now haven’t a pulpit to pound on. And this is why their decision to once again go back to draw from the well of making the LGBTQ community the target of attack is so reprehensible. That they insist on inflicting damage on an already marginalized community to rally their base, is opportunistic bullying and hypocrisy of the highest order.

More and more, younger generations view gender identity and sexual orientation as non-issues, which is making these religious folk’s righteous indignation look more and more like the unhinged ramblings of an old man who has lost his faculties. The Christians who are weeping and gnashing their teeth right now aren’t winning any converts, they’re doing nothing to damage Disney, and everything to damage the image of the Church in the eyes of the world, as an out-of-touch, hateful, inconsistent horde—who apparently find gay people “icky” but misogyny perfectly Presidential.

I’m sure these folks will do some wild theological gymnastics to make a gay character in a fictional story somehow more of a threat to our children than a confessed predatory President who brags about forcing himself physically upon strangers. They will work overtime to try and get God to consent to their inconsistency—but God will not. They can conjure up all sorts of Biblical slight-of-hand to try and justify themselves, but it will all be fruitless.

There may have been a day in the now distant past, where the preachers and Evangelists would have gotten a nice bump from such histrionics; a time when they may have even convinced some Biblically illiterate, easily suggestible bystanders to go along with them. It may have been sound Church business at one time. But these self-righteous reservoirs are drying up, as the old folks in these communities die out and the building themselves grow dormant, with no new converts to fill them. They are quickly become dusty museums of a religious bigotry that thankfully fewer and fewer people feel like practicing.

Today these protests are falling on deaf ears, by an educated, technologically connected generation, who see such obsessions with people’s personal plumbing all as much ado about nothing. They have no interest in a Church who doesn’t seem at all burdened to attend to the real suffering in the world, preferring to protest musicals, out terrified teenagers, and police public bathrooms for nonexistent boogeymen. 

Disney’s primary business is in the telling of stories and the dreaming of dreams and the singing of songs. And in days when the world has become so dark and so starved of simple joy—we need their brand of beautiful magic more than ever. The majority of us who affirm the inherent value of all people will pack the theaters and escape from that dim existence for a couple of hours, celebrating the diversity of this life with our children in stories and songs. Meanwhile “the Church” will stand outside with signs, sneering and scowling and being miserable in the name of Jesus—before returning to social media to troll some folks online who believe Donald Trump isn’t a great model of morality for our nation’s children.

And those of us who believe that we’re all equally welcome at the table despite who or how we love (many of us committed Christians), will stand at the door smiling, and with our hands pointed toward the dining room, simply sing to all who gather:

Be our guest, be our guest…









304 thoughts on “The Naked Hypocrisy of a Christian Disney Boycott

  1. I thought for the longest time that I was an “Evangelical” Christian. I went to the mega churches and led worship and taught Women’s bible studies and signed a Christian record deal. I always felt that I didn’t belong there, like I was never like the others. I tried to fit in. I truly did, (I had moments of profound touches from God during those times, an example being once when I was leading worship I felt the Holy spirit so strongly I went to my knees weeping and praying, while singing) After the service I got a call from the Pastor asking me what that was about. He told me my job was to lead the people in worship, not to go worship on my own. I also taught a women’s bible study on Women in the Bible. At the end I shared my testimony, which included my experience in receiving tongues. By the days end I was told “they didn’t believe in that gift.” and perhaps I belonged somewhere else. I share this only to say that until this election I was “hanging” in with the modern christian church. This election clarified for me what I AM NOT. I am NOT a person who believes that we are the moral police of our society. I believe we are to love and embrace all people. I am NOT a person who believes that we should tell a woman what she must do with her body. I believe that is between her and God, not for man to dictate. I believe in feeding the poor, I believe in taking care of our environment, I believe in welcoming and not rejecting. I believe in always being kind, no matter what because everyone is hurting. Am I always successful? No, sometimes I hear myself being critical and hateful of the other side. (I am sure that’s not cool either which I think we have to be careful in speaking truth and in our hearts concerning it) What I am saying is that this election showed me MY truth. And for that I am very thankful. I am also thankful that you were a voice in the wilderness for me at the beginning of this transition. God Bless you. I pray we will both remember what is the MOST important commandment of GOD. To Love…all…including our enemies.

    • That could be my testimony. Thank you for sharing, it is beautiful. I hear what you say about being critical and find myself there, it isn’t easy is it, but then like Grandpa used to say, we aren’t guaranteed easy. Peace……………..

      • Thank you for sharing your testimony. I too am finding myself thanks to this election and constantly saddened and disappointed by my Christian brothers and sisters that I have been in fellowship with for many years. It is so encouraging to hear from others walking the same psth. Thank you again.

    • Dr. Lynn, so beautiful. Been there myself. I tried too to fit in many times, always crushing part of my soul to do it, until it became clear to me that the driving pulse is the leadership, not Jesus. What a waste! It was also about the time my daughter came out. Now I’ve found countless beautiful people who really seek to love each other the way Jesus said, not to support a patriarchal, MANMADE structure. <3 Thx for sharing.

    • Amen: I share your freedom having embraced an “unaffiliated Christian” status…. Most importantly not letting the “Church” persuade me I can not call myself Christian. I believe a lot of hidden harm has been done over the years as the Church causes people to needlessly walk away from God as they reject the Church

      • SO true! My mother left the Church behind aged 18; she never shared entirely why she’d done so, other than to say that she had been profoundly disappointed and disillusioned.

        She only set foot in any church after that for such rites of passage as Christenings, weddings and funerals.

        My father was an agnostic and had no real faith at all; he felt it was arrogant to call oneself an atheist because he couldn’t disprove that God exists but neither could he say there was proof. Despite this being so, I was Christened aged 14 months, as are most Anglican babies in the UK. (By a visiting Southern Baptist preacher, mind you, who probably had a cow over the concept of baptising an infant into the faith).

        My own attendance at the local High Church of England establishment began at around age 3, when I would accompany our neighbour on Sunday morning while my parents worked. I dutifully attended church and Sunday school up until I was 12 years old, when I suddenly found myself thinking that if there was a God, he wasn’t at all concerned about the bullying and cruelty I was being subjected to on a daily basis during the school week because he wasn’t doing anything to stop it.

        Came back aged 22, then at 26 fell away again because I couldn’t find a church that spoke to me.

        • Thanks for sharing Michelle. I can relate to your story. I think there are many more people like you with similar experiences. Those who are doubtful or agnostic who don’t fit in at church because they have not bought in to the religious culture and language of the organization.

          The best experiences I have had at church have either been when it is empty and I can enjoy the silence, look at the stained glassed windows– or the cross, flip through a hymnal or Bible and think about who God is and how Jesus lived– and the other is when I have sat down to eat at a potluck with fellow christians and all the pretense of the masks churchy people wear come off and we can chat like fellow human beings face to face.

        • I do hear you, Michelle. I am so sorry.

          One can’t help but notice the many voices of those who are disillusioned by their experiences in various churches in the USA. Hard not to be, really, if one is a critical thinker. Herd not to be when one is a caring, compassionate, tender person.

Refuge is offered in the Facebook group ”Celebrate What Christians Have in Common” where a daily buffet is spread of Asceticism and art, cartoons and quotes, comics and contemplation, memes and meditations, music and musings, photographs and prayers, just about anything that is one of the many voices from the many flavors of Christianity.

          There is one discipline required of all who join: one must not utter a negative word because this space is a refuge, a respite, a place of peace and quiet. If one chooses to engage in discussion one may only write about one can affirm in the selection. No arguments, no vitriolic words, no spammers and trolls will be tolerated,

Please come and celebrate what Christians have in common and let us together remember our faith is based upon God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and not the actions and choices of frail, sinful human beings.

      • (DISCLAIMER, I AM MESSIANIC JEWISH ANARCHO-CAPITALIST, SO NO BIAS!) Just clarifying, you call yourself an unaffiliated “christian” who condones homosexuality? When God calls homosexuality an abomination
        (Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13) does he not mean it? Please ruminate on this idea, I implore you.

        • Also Messianic Jew.
          It is also an abomination to extol oneself. Jesus pointed out the man who thanked God that he was not like another man present in the temple praying. Jesus saw no one as unworthy of his love. We worship an awesome Savior and yet act like we save ourselves, and his act on the cross is unnecessary because we have goodness all sewn up and are so self righteous. We’d do better to attend to the log in our own eye, and leave the judging for God.

    • Thank you for your honest & heart-felt posting. For some time now I have felt cynical about the church & feel really bad about that. If someone asks me about my faith, I tell them I am an evangelical Christian BUT I am NOT a right wing judgmental fanatic. I tell them I am a liberal & love Jesus. Since the new administration has come to power, I also add I am a Democrat & am in support of human rights & equality, environmental protection, freedom of speech & the media, & in honesty & truth.

      • Kathe Mauldin, thank you. If you really want to see their heads explode, tell them Jesus when He walked the earth probably looked a lot more like Saddam Hussein than Ewan McGregor, Christian Bale, Ted Neely, Henry Ian Cusick, Robert Powell, Jim Caviezel, Max von Sydow, Jeremy Sisto, Jeffrey Hunter, Juan Pablo Di Pace, Robert Torti, Haaz Sleiman, Bruce Marchiano or Willem Dafoe. All fine actors, none of whom Near Eastern.

        One can’t help but notice the many voices of those who are disillusioned by their experiences in various churches in the USA. Hard not to be, really, if one is a critical thinker. Herd not to be when one is a caring, compassionate, tender person.

Refuge is offered in the Facebook group ”Celebrate What Christians Have in Common” where a daily buffet is spread of Asceticism and art, cartoons and quotes, comics and contemplation, memes and meditations, music and musings, photographs and prayers, just about anything that is one of the many voices from the many flavors of Christianity.

        There is one discipline required of all who join: one must not utter a negative word because this space is a refuge, a respite, a place of peace and quiet. If one chooses to engage in discussion one may only write about one can affirm in the selection. No arguments, no vitriolic words, no spammers and trolls will be tolerated,

Please come and celebrate what Christians have in common and let us together remember our faith is based upon God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and not the actions and choices of frail, sinful human beings.

      • If you were thinking of voting for Hillary Clinton, then you care nothing for honesty or truth. Also, how did this post go from boycotting Disney to bashing followers of the WHOLE BIBLE, not just the parts that, you know, forbid homosexuality and the like. Just saying…

        • Altair, if you voted for Trump you don’t care about honesty or truth.

          Sorry, your statement about hillary has no actual basis in fact. It’s based entirely on the years of utter BSthat the GOP has conjured out of thin air.

          To quote: When God calls homosexuality an abomination
          (Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13) does he not mean it?

          Well since God didn’t write the BIble, humans did, your question is silly from the start. Considering that homosexuality has been documented in..oh..2000 other species it would seem that God doesn’t have the problem with homosexuality that you think He does.

          Oh btw, if you want to argue this then you can answer these questions:

          1: So God wants farmers punished for planting two different crops side by side?
          2: God wants people punished for wearing clothes of mixed thread types?
          3: God wants the consumption of pork and shellfish banned?
          4: Women should be barred from leaving their homes when they are having their periods?
          5: Slavery is acceptable?
          6: Fathers should be able to sell their daughters off?
          7: When country A conquers country B they should kill off all the citizens, including the elderly and the children, of country B…except the virginal women who they should take to be their sex slaves?

          As for “messianic Jew” oh you’re an evangelical Christian pretending to be religiously Jewish.

    • That is also more or less my testimony too. It’s amazing how common this is. If the Church expects people to come in and become honest people, then they will get people coming in who are indeed honest – with themselves. And sometimes that honesty grates with the Pastor as you question things.

      I too am a worship leader. I saw where you’d written, “…when I was leading worship I felt the Holy spirit so strongly I went to my knees weeping and praying, while singing) After the service I got a call from the Pastor asking me what that was about…” and that really chimed with me because usually I didn’t ‘feel’ much when leading (although nowadays I do)…but one day, while leading, the Spirit came upon me so strongly that, well, I survived the worship time, but then I had to go and lie behind the seats at the back in order to let the Spirit wash over me. And that was what I got told off for, the lying down… if it had been a ‘ministry time’, though, I’m sure it would heva been OK. God escaped from His box on that day, and I’m suprised He didn’t get a ticking-off too 🙂

      • One can’t help but notice the many voices of those who are disillusioned by their experiences in various churches in the USA. Hard not to be, really, if one is a critical thinker. Herd not to be when one is a caring, compassionate, tender person.

Refuge is offered in the Facebook group ”Celebrate What Christians Have in Common” where a daily buffet is spread of Asceticism and art, cartoons and quotes, comics and contemplation, memes and meditations, music and musings, photographs and prayers, just about anything that is one of the many voices from the many flavors of Christianity.

        There is one discipline required of all who join: one must not utter a negative word because this space is a refuge, a respite, a place of peace and quiet. If one chooses to engage in discussion one may only write about one can affirm in the selection. No arguments, no vitriolic words, no spammers and trolls will be tolerated,

Please come and celebrate what Christians have in common and let us together remember our faith is based upon God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and not the actions and choices of frail, sinful human beings.

    • My sis and bro in law’s life in the evangelical church mirrors your’s almost perfectly including the record deal. My sister just got too sick of the hypocrisy.

      I started out as an evangelical along with her and after 40 years the memories are as fresh as ever. It was exciting wasn’t it? Instant friends, cool music concerts, weekend retreats, revival meetings and that whole youth vibe thing. My God it was intoxicating! And who could forget the annual Knott’s Berry Farm Night! I still have a 1977 sew on patch somewhere in my boxes o junk. It was a whole new magical sparkling world for this withdrawn, self isolated, and untreated clinically depressed teen.

      How soon it wore off though. Those of us who had tough questions had our own little group and we all eventually left the flock even though it hurt. If they would even have acknowledged my doubts as being genuine instead of some kind of Satanic attack I might have stayed awhile longer. But it was a blast while it lasted.

      I held a deep grudge for years, blaming them for taking advantage of my naivete and emotional illness but the bitterness wore off long ago and I enjoy the memories which is good. I know a lot of my peers are still bitter after all these decades and that’s really a shame.

    • I see that quite differently. Regarding the election, would you have preferred Clinton? I think Christians were willing to take a chance on Trump because of his background and the criminal nature of hers. As far as the other, the LGBTQ community has never wanted to “live quiet lives” as this guy puts it. Once the vote was in in Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage, the community wasn’t content with that. They went after the kids, to change the curriculum to embrace gay couples. They want to force the rest of us to accept their lifestyle as normal. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin. Period. It is not a worse sin than others to God, but the Bible also is clear that sexual immorality is a sin against one’s body and comes with its own consequences for the sinner. It is not unloving to be unaccepting of gay couples. It is unloving and lazy for Christians to accept them as they are living a sinful lifestyle which will lead to their destruction. It is a sad testimony when Christians approve and support this lifestyle because they know God’s truth and will have to give an accounting of their own to God. God cares more about our holiness and righteousness than our love life. The only sexual activity that has the approval of God is that between a married man and a women. Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

      • The Bible also deals with people who have issue with this. I know it seems like outdated foolishness to some. But people cannot understand why this is right because it is spiritually discerned and the Bible is clear that unless someone has received the Lord and submitted to the Spirit, they cannot understand these truths. I know there are same sex couples and I do not hate them at all. But neither will I dilute the truth of the Bible to make people feel better about themselves and their actions. I stopped taking my kids to Disney projects a long time ago once the innocence was lost and the gay agenda became clear. There is no project or movie they will release that is worth planting ideas that are approving of things that I know are wrong.

        • I pray to God that none of your children turn out to be LGBTQ. For what it is worth, nothing Disney or anyone else does “plants” anything in children’s heads. There is no need. At some time or other they will encounter someone who is different and the seed will be planted through experience. Sadly, though, it is parents who do plant the seeds of bigotry and prejudice in the minds of children. They do not know such sins until they are taught them. If you truly follow ALL that is in Scripture, it will not matter. At some time or other your children will be rebellious and you will be required by that same Scripture to stone them to death. (See Leviticus) Perhaps then, when faced with such a contradiction, your own eyes will be opened and your heart softened and you will understand God’s radically inclusive love. In the meantime, let your children grow and develop and learn to understand a diverse and complex world around them.

        • Thank you Jodi! My sentiments exactly. I’ve had this same conversation with family members who have regurgitated these same claims about how unchristian it is to not accept this sin because after all the world accepts it. It amazes me that John has absolutely no scripture to back up his claims, yet he feels Christ would approve of the LGBT lifestyle. Christ teaches us to love everyone, but not condone sin. Why would he have said “to go and sin no more” if he was accepting of sin? And now, the very, loud and pushy LBGT community is going after our Children with a vengeance through media that targets children. Boycotting a movie that supports this agenda does make a difference. If we stay home and don’t support this movie with our dollars we are sending a strong message to Disney or Target or any other company forcing this agenda on us that we’ll do business elsewhere and we’ll take our money with us. Just ask Target if it hasn’t made a difference. It has!

          • Debbie, for the bloody last can not convert someone to homosexuality. For something to be a sin it has to be a choice. Homosexuality is no more a choice than heterosexuality is.

            To quote: And now, the very, loud and pushy LBGT community is going after our Children with a vengeance through media that targets children.

            You mean as opposed to you conservatives who are infinitely louder and infinitely more pushy?

            Curious how you complain about another group supposedly being “loud and pushy” when your side is the one for decades, at least, has been demanding that the United States follow “God’s law” and that y’all have some right to force everyone to obey your religious beliefs under penalty of civil law.

            Would you like to explain that hypocrisy?

          • I am sorry that you are filled with hate. The Bible was not written by God it was written by men. It was used to control the masses. How do you know for certainty that good did not want homosexuality?Homosexuality is found in nature not just in humans.

            In regards to Disney. Please by all means boycott them. That way when I go to Disneyland you won’t be in line ruining my amazing experience.

            And if gay is all you get out of Disney then you don’t know the true story behind the “agenda”.

            Example: Beauty and the Beast – the main lesson kids learn is the beauty comes from within. The most good looking person can actually be a jerk, while the beast can be kinds and caring.

            Again thanks for boycotting so that I could have shorter lines and an amazing experience in Disneyland

        • I am sorry that you are filled with hate. The Bible was not written by God it was written by men. It was used to control the masses. How do you know for certainty that good did not want homosexuality?Homosexuality is found in nature not just in humans.

          In regards to Disney. Please by all means boycott them. That way when I go to Disneyland you won’t be in line ruining my amazing experience.

          And if gay is all you get out of Disney then you don’t know the true story behind the “agenda”.

          Example: Beauty and the Beast – the main lesson kids learn is the beauty comes from within. The most good looking person can actually be a jerk, while the beast can be kinds and caring.

          Again thanks for boycotting so that I could have shorter lines and an amazing experience in Disneyland

      • One “SIN” is no greater than the other. It is not our place to judge”lest ye be judged” but to live as Christ and tell others of the “Good News”, not tell them you are going to hell. That was the message of the ruling religious group/ministers who held authority over Jesus’s religion. Jesus was scorn many times (by his religious leaders) for his interaction with “SINNERS”. Jesus said “Ye with no sin, case the first stone”.

        • To Jodi, I have a couple questions.

          What crimes did HIllary commit? With evidence from unbiased sources please.

          Secondly, should we discuss Trump’s nature? The multiple affairs? The bragging about sexual assault, the bragging about walking in on teen girls when they’re naked? The 175 million dollars he conned out of gullible conservatives with his Trump University scam. The racist birtherism BS that he led for 5 years. All the other frauds, scams, cons and outright lies he’s engaged in over his lifetime? And last but not least…all the pandering to white racists and neo nazi’s he’s done.

          You, Jodi, took a chance on Satan hoping he wouldn’t be Satan and yet that is all Donald Trump is..Satan. And all because of your stupid fear, your stupid ignorance, your stupid intolerance and your inability to tell reality from fiction.

          • And what is Hillary, Yeshua in human form? While Trump has done QUESTIONABLE things, Hillary has committed MULTIPLE FEDERAL OFFENSES, some of these being lying in court about said offenses! Do not ever presume to judge someone who is pushing the law like everyone else, but always presume to when they break the law!

            • You continue to spout speculation and innuendo. Hillary Clinton has not been charged with any crimes, nor has she committed any. If you are referring to her email, I suggest you check to see how many of Trump’s appointees and advisors, even those with high level security clearance, are still using personal email and twitter accounts housed on public servers. Even Trump uses non-secure personal devices.
              The issue with Clinton was that of being a woman, no matter how hard many want to veil that issue with something else. They could not bring themselves to vote for a woman over a man. The patriarchy still holds too much sway over our country. She was, far and away, the most experienced and qualified candidate for President in decades and decades. Maybe her toughness was just something some of the “boys” could not take. Not unusual, but so sad.
              Clinton is also a woman of faith, demonstrated faith, attending church regularly.
              Trump, on the other hand, has had multiple prior marriages, all but one to women who were not born in the US….all foreigners….most of whom he loathes.
              How many times has Trump filed for bankruptcy leaving the government on the hook for his debts? Those are matters of public record. What about his boasts about sexual predation in which he engaged? The man lacks morals and judgement. He never engages his brain before opening his mouth or letting his thumbs loose on his devices. He creates and thrives on rumors and innuendo….often to his own detriment.
              So what has this to do with the Disney “boycott?” Simple: Hypocrisy continues to hold sway with the religious right and with so many others. Yet for the right amount of money and attention, they will overlook it among themselves. So sad!

    • We are absolutely to love all people but to accept a lifestyle that will damn their soul is the most un-loving thing you could do. Jesus preached repent and turn to God.

      • since evangelical Christians damn their souls with their fear and hate they are the ones that need to repent. They are not followers of Christ when they so gleefully disobey Christ at every turn.

        • This reminds me of a story of a street preacher and a gay couple.

          The street preacher screams and being a total annoyance about damnation of the sinners, for people to get right with Jesus by outwardly and conspicuously praising him, saying magical prayers to the Lord, and the tortures that await sinners in hell.

          A gay couple holding hands approach the street preacher and the taller man asks the preacher, “Will we be allowed in Heaven?”

          The street preacher scream, “You two are damned to hell! Get thee away from me vile sinners! My Lord Jesus will not accept you! Only the true believes of Lord Jesus will go to heaven and join his crusade to clean the world of sin!”

          The shorter man asks the street preacher, “By the way, who will go to heaven?”

          The street preacher yells, “People like me, the true followers of my great and powerful Lord Jesus! Lord Jesus be praised! We will stomp out sin once I arrive their, lead by our Lord Jesus!” while making a big show of his praise for Jesus.

          The shorter man is repulsed by the yelling and the preacher’s show of piety.

          The taller man asks, “Then who will go to hell?”

          The street preacher screams, “Demon spawn like you and your sinful friends! Lord Jesus will cast all sinners to hell where you belong!”

          The two men look at each other. Then shorter man says to the preacher, “Man, you really need to work on your threats.”

  2. Love this, John — your phrasing is almost poetic in some places. I would like your permission to reprint in my own blog with proper credit and a link, if that’s OK.

  3. John, once again I thank you for your wisdom, and your willingness to call out these-called Christian Right on their never ending stream of BS. Keep giving us all hope! Oh – one small thing: please double-check your spellchecker. “Fowl-mouthed” really did jump out at me. Otherwise, don’t change a thing. I love you to bits for being a light in the darkness.

    • And why not. Tweety Trump’s last televised TV speech was filled with lies. Out of 91 statements, 51 were absolutely untrue. He wants religion back in schools where it definitely does not belong because of the diversity in religion and culture in our country unless he plans to dictate one and only one religion – Christianity. Tweety Trump has brought forth more violence, hatred, racism, uncontrollable anger, and other disparaging personalities in those people who primarily voted for him. Churches should be taxed as businesses since they have private schools which are privately paid for by parents , after school programs again paid for by parents, rent out their auditoriums for people to use for non religious programs, and thus the list continues. This marks week four of the whole family vacationing in Florida, and with the number in this family, the security costs are overwhelming and unnecessary. Religion is a personal experience. It is not experienced the same by any two people. Of course your mega-churches are filled with greed, lies, money making schemes, and hypocrisy. The salaries of the so called pastors is outrageous, and that money could be put to better use such as helping the homeless, building more shelters, providing nutritional meals, and needed health care. The only goals Tweety Trump has in his tiny brain is to wipe out everything Obama did for our country, put close to 30 million people without insurance, cut Medicare and Medicaid funding, continue his Buddy-Buddy relationship with Putin, and start a war.

  4. Excellent post. It feels a little like a rant, because it is, and a justified one. I feel your frustration with people who claim to follow Jesus Christ but in reality stand against everything he stood for.

    I would like to believe we’re coming to an inflection point where all but the most hard core supporters of Conservative Christianity turn away as they realize it’s all been an exercise in hatred and manipulation. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening in the United States anytime soon. Here, Christianity is a cloak that the majority wear as a social identity, not a moral one, and they wear it in order to live their lives as they wish, without having to grow as human beings or care for anyone outside their tribe.

    It’s very unfortunate that so many people use the life of a man who tried to bring us peace and joy to cover their addiction to fear and hatred.

    • ” Here, Christianity is a cloak that the majority wear as a social identity, not a moral one, and they wear it in order to live their lives as they wish, without having to grow as human beings or care for anyone outside their tribe.”

      I’ve seen this far too often. First in a small Florida town and now in northern Indiana. Here I see it mostly in poorly educated relatives (which sadly can make family get-togethers difficult to stomach). I wish more people would read their Bible and think for themselves instead of letting their beliefs be dictated by their church leaders.

  5. Thank you, thank you, thank you! This article speaks to the very reason I have left the Evangelical church after 61 years. I can no longer be associated with the hate and fear created in the name of Jesus. As followers of Jesus we have been called to love and care for the marginalized people in our world not beat them up with the Bible. So, as I continue in my crisis of church I will take encouragement from articles like this. Keep up this holy work!

    • One can’t help but notice the many voices of those who are disillusioned by their experiences in various churches in the USA. Hard not to be, really, if one is a critical thinker. Herd not to be when one is a caring, compassionate, tender person.

Refuge is offered in the Facebook group ”Celebrate What Christians Have in Common” where a daily buffet is spread of Asceticism and art, cartoons and quotes, comics and contemplation, memes and meditations, music and musings, photographs and prayers, just about anything that is one of the many voices from the many flavors of Christianity.

      There is one discipline required of all who join: one must not utter a negative word because this space is a refuge, a respite, a place of peace and quiet. If one chooses to engage in discussion one may only write about one can affirm in the selection. No arguments, no vitriolic words, no spammers and trolls will be tolerated,

Please come and celebrate what Christians have in common and let us together remember our faith is based upon God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and not the actions and choices of frail, sinful human beings.

  6. Homophobia and misogyny come from the same root: rigid concepts of gender roles. So, it is no shock that those who are homophobic are a-okay with misogyny: it fits their worldview.

    And, of course, it’s wrong.

    Thanks for this excellent article.

    • well it also has to do with power and control of it. And those who don’t like sharing.

      And quite a bit of it can be summed up as “Those who have lived their lives safely ensconced in the cocoon of privilege will come to see equality as oppression.”

  7. Amen, amen and amen! If any watched the ABC documentary “When We Rise” you witnessed what those of us who are LGBTQ have experienced over the last 50 years or so. Those of us of a certain age were part of the events depicted and I even knew some of the people. So imagine the worry and sadness of seeing what so many gave so much to accomplish now threatened by 45 and his minions. In the story, the religious right exercised much power….except in the end with the Supreme Court decision. It was almost comical how they had no defense for their position that same gender marriage would damage anything or why there should even be a restriction against it. So here they are again….spewing judgement and bigotry instead of the love of Jesus. Now we get to see the trolls come out on this site and attack John and the rest of us who support us. Maybe we should just completely ignore their posts this time by not responding??

    • Bruce you said “..they had no defense for their position that same gender marriage would damage anything or why there should even be a restriction against it.”

      May I add– because, there is no reason to attack something something that causes no harm.

    • Bruce, I think you are right about the trolls, and I do think that perhaps ignoring them is the answer. They really only want to tell us how much better they are than us, and how we are all going to hell. If you try to state your position, they have a narrative to belittle. I have come to the conclusion that they are afraid to hear us because we just might change their mind. Of course I will admit that I won’t change mine so it’s an impasse, and so I am going to try to love, accept and where that becomes too much of a problem I will ignore. I would like to also apologize for my generation being a much of bigoted idiots against anyone who is different than them. Please know there are some of us old people who never, and I mean never held those views. They puzzle me as much as they puzzle younger generations. Peace……………..

      • For the sake of full disclosure, it is my generation that has perpetrated so much of this. I will soon be 68 years old and have witnessed amazing, disgusting and saddening events in my life including assassinations, bigotry, riots, unjustifiable wars, and the list goes on and on. Like another writer said, I have watched friends die, created new friendships only to watch them die, created more, and now I am the old fart still hanging around. I know that God has been more compassionate with the bigots and haters than I could ever be….but that is why God is God and God is love….I’m not always, but I try.

    • As a 63 year old- When We Rise told much of my historical story- and it was heart-wrenching to watch. From the early police brutality- roving fag-bashing gangs and Anita Bryant- to the election and then subsequent murder of Harvey Milk while I was living in SLC Utah. Then on to the earliest beginnings of the AIDS crisis while I was spinning records in gay clubland- watching all my friends who moved to the Bay area get sick- while my friends in SLC died along with my new friends in Denver. And then here in Colorado- the state passed the anti-gay Amendment 2 (not mentioned in the series but pivotal to all future court cases) and it went all the way to the SC and got thrown out. And still to come were the country-wide one-man-one-woman constitutional marriage bills- that we then had to get thrown out as unconstitutional- knowing full well that the mormon church I grew up in funded Prop 8 in CA. And finally to watch DADT and DOMA get tossed by the Supremes- and the actual marriage equality bills passed.

      A factual story of recent equal rights history- fought against- tooth and nail every step of the way- by heterosexist biblical christian religionists- who reveled in scapegoating the GLBTQ community like it was the Devil. So thanks for this John Pavlovitz- and thanks for your recent apology- but christians will NEVER be able to apologize for the harm they have done in the name of their jesus. The ones still holding onto their positions of hate deserve to get back exactly what they are putting out. And their support of -45? The single most disgusting thing I have EVER seen.

      And thanks to Disney- which- post Walt- has always been very gay. And thanks- Bruce Garner- for your comment.

      • May I please add, that there were those of us who were in the church who tried to bring a note of sanity to it. It was not the evangelical church but mainline but still that was prevalent there also. Some of us did try, so I would hate that all would be tarred because of what a segment did. Beyond that I also had friends and relatives that were harassed and died for being who they were. It wasn’t right then and it is still not right. I guess what I am trying to say that not all straight churchgoers are or were the same. Peace……….Love………..Resist……….

      • I keep wondering if anyone recalls that in Nazi Germany it was the official state church that promulgated the death of Jews and of homo-sexuals as being the will of God. What scares me most is such seems to be happening again.
        I pray God that this will cease. It must, or we asChristians and gay will have no place to stand. And neither will those who live among us who are illegal immigrants, most of which seem to be in these Untied (spelling intended) States hoping to be a citizen here. God help us!

        • I so agree with you, I am so dismayed that we have learned nothing from the past and the bad guys keep doing the same thing over and over and people keep going along over and over. You would think that by now there would be enough people who know better and will do better. I thought there was but now not so sure.

  8. My broken record, Thank you, for being here and for speaking truth. You certainly help me get thru this tunnel, a light on the other side. Much to the dismay of the older folks in these churches you speak the truth about the younger generation. I live in a very conservative red area and my grandson and his friends think these old people are crazy to get all up in arms because two people love each other. A lot of these grew up in very conservative churches. I would listen to them when they were here at my home, which was quite often, and they would express themselves about some of these things, then would say to me, “Nana, don’t tell our folks, they wouldn’t understand”. So I hold onto that. Peace……………

  9. Do the leaders of the Christian fundamentalists express and represent the views of their members or do they manipulate and create the views of their members? The question is incorrect. The question should be to which degree the leaders manipulate and create the views of their members. The answer has to be : 100%. In an authority based organization as the church where very little freedom of thought is possible, of course the views of members are dictated by what the authorities, who justify their views on biblical authority, will say. My point of hope is that the people are not out of themselves this malignant and ignorant. They have to be herded up and spoken to, to become that way. And that is also a reason to despair. A human being with good relationships and a life that more or less works is not quickly going to start attacking and denouncing others unless riled up by strong leaders. And it is shocking what these leaders can get accomplished in people to the point of total mind captivity. The feeble minds lose their humanity by listening to authorities. The tragedy of human “civilization” on display again. Authorities will never rile anybody up to become more human. That has to come from ourselves. Authorities want power , the Christian right wants power, it has nothing to do with any form of Christianity but with the oldest thing in the world: power over others. The world will for sure get a lot better if a Disney movie is boycotted. I just sigh and go to see the movie immediately. Boycotting anything, in general, is a boring response but that is good. It means you are not going to be violent. Even though your mindset is a war mindset. So long term this mentality of boycotting cannot lead to anything good. But does a boycott ever do any good? I doubt it. But I will take it, if people want to do something, go for it, as it is better than getting violent. Biggest challenge for all humanity: how to educate the young to be resistant against the temptation of giving up independent thinking and become a captive mind where all talk alike? The group think that is so characteristic of all churches? Churches are based on a basic mistrust of the human independent mind, and churches were founded to bring a remedy, which is uniquely obtainable through the church (how unlikely is that!) and requires humility and only limited questioning. It is an impossible battle to win. The individual has to wake up out of his free will. You can’t shake em up with a speech or a mind development program. You don’t them to buy into another captive program. So we are literally helpless and have to completely trust the ultimate freedom tendencies in the human spirit to reject this totalitarian group think that is the hallmark of the Christian right. One person at a time. We are ready to welcome them from the shadows into the world.

  10. Good! It leaves plenty of good seats in the theatres for those of us who don’t have our religious piousness crammed up our butts!

  11. New to your blog~so thankful I found it! Thank you for your wise, sane, and caring take on things. “Be our guest”~love!

  12. I started off appreciating your perspective but now I feel less so. You are arrogant and mean-spirited. Even the “needs to be said” conveys a sense of self-importance. Conservative Christians don’t “crawl out of woodwork” like roaches. They believe, they have values and they mean to honor Christ. They just don’t think like you. I’d hoped you were another side I could learn from. Well, I guess I have, just not what I’d hoped. I recall a quote from Oliver Cromwell to Parliament: “I beseech you, by the bowels of Christ, to think it possible that you might be wrong.” It’s not a bad thing to recall from time to time.

    • Hysterical conservatives that find it far too much trouble to be “in the world”, but not “of the world”, came up with the plan to try to force the world to conform, so they could be more comfortable living here. Instead of cleaning up their own house, well contaminated by mammon worship, gluttony, gossip and selfishness, they focus entirely one “sins” that mostly don’t apply to them, while their obvious sins, that everyone else is seeing, goes unchecked. These folks definitely “crawl out of the woodwork”. Are all conservatives like this? No. However many of the ones that are not, if they are speaking up, seem to spend more time defending the ones that are like this, instead of calling them on their obvious hypocrisy. Which invariably makes people assume they are of the same mind. When I see people easily turning their backs on widows and orphans to protect their bloated consumer lifestyle and perceived safety, a popular mentality among conservatives today, I don’t see regenerate hearts, I see people whose true allegiance is, to themselves and those in their insular little group, not to the gospel. I don’t want to hear their whining about “gay” anything. From what I’ve observed, perhaps a “log hunt” is in order. As with all of us, before we pick up that stone, we better make sure we are sinless.

      • Philippians 1:8
        “For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.”

        That is the essence of Christ and his spiritual body that Paul speaks of. Not his physical body.

        • William, in koine, the word translated as “bowels” is spláchna. Although the English translations are coy, in the Greek version Judas hangs himself and his spláchna falls to the ground. If you don’t know it, when a person dies in this manner, that person’s bowels and kidneys void.

          Unpleasant image to associate with “bowels.”

          • The word in this verse isn’t about the bowels of the human body. The King James Bible translators rendered it correctly for the spiritual context associated with what the Body of Christ represents.

              • Biblical scholars also can’t agree on what version of the Bible to use.

                I find it very curious that all of these umpteen translations, all translated by armies of Bible scholars, manage to not agree very much regarding the content. A person could read Luke 2:33 in one version and learn that Joseph is not the father of Jesus, and then read another and find out he is the father of Jesus. Even the worst Bible scholar that ever lived ought to know that the father of Jesus is non other than God.

                Ought to, that is.

                • Translating from one language to another often leaves a lot to be desired. One has to consider the original context of the document. Which is its historical setting, culture, society, as well as language. Idioms in one language have no meaning in another. Translators also have to interpret what was meant.

                  The KJV is a monument to the beauty of Shakepearean English.

                  If you want a translation that is word from word from the Greek, that’s the New American Standard version.

                  But even then, it was translated with an agenda about interpretation. Gender inclusive language was translated as gender exclusive. In Romans, Junius is acclaimed as an apostle, despite the fact that the name is in the feminine second declension, although the poor woman’s name was finally translated as Junia in the NRSV. And now it is standard.

                  I always recommend that people learn to read the NT in koine. It can be eye-opening.

                  • Luke 2:33
                    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                    33 And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him.

                    The NASB version would have the reader believe that the father of Jesus is Joseph. The father of Jesus is God. If Joseph were the father of Jesus, then Jesus would have been the son of a sinful human being, with his father’s sin nature. Thankfully, this is not the case, and we have the King James Bible to thank for it in this regard. The KJV preserves the divinity of Christ within it’s text and has done so since 1611.

                    • William, what it says in the NASB is what is written in the koine.

                      The KJV is not faithful to the original language.

                      A qualified translator’s concern is to translate a document as faithfully to the original as possible without imposing a pleasing interpretation.

                      Maybe we need to wrestle with the original language more.

                      I wish Dr. Carey was still following the blog as he is a scholar of the Biblical languages.

                    • The father of Jesus is God, not Joseph. Luke 2:33 in the NASB deceives the reader into thinking that Joseph is his father, which subtly eliminates the divinity of Christ and it continues to do so across the rest of this modern translation.

                      The KJV has managed to do the job of telling the Christian world the truth of the contents of the Bible for over three hundred years until modern book publishers got the idea to re-tran$late it into umpteen different versions, all of which say something different within the body of the text. Doesn’t that alone raise a red flag?

                      It most definitely should.

                      Who is the father of our Lord Jesus Christ? Joseph, or God?

                • You know, in times of old when truth was difficult to find and agree on and when the world seemed to be falling apart God would call a prophet to guide and lead the people in the right direction. Is it possible that he has called such a person in this generation to help get and keep humanity on the right path?

        • Chris P — thanks for your comment & the Cromwell quote , — most people know ‘bowels’ is used in the literary sense, ‘the deepest inner parts of something.’ , i.e., the bowels of a ship, the bowels of the earth… [not talking about the colon obviously. ]

          NIV uses the phrase ‘with the affection of Jesus Christ.’

          • Well done leslie, the word from the Greek is splagcnois which is translated most commonly as compassion or affection but meant from the gut and with deep feeling.

          • My Aunt Selma called them the “bals.” Imagine 10 old women sitting in a circle talking about all their female friends and their diseases. When Aunt Selma’s turn comes, she asks the magic medical question of rural Tennessee:

            “Well, hize her bals?”

    • That is true Chris. Thanks for your comment. May I kindly I suggest that you start with yourself by going to my blog and taking a peek into the mirror it offers to you. If you read all the blog articles, you will learn an awful lot you did not know about Christian fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism in the United States. I have studied its bowels for many, many, many years—particularly the corners of its bowels it would like to hide from the rest of the world and folks like you. It is a real eye opener. Just click on the following safe link and have fun learning new stuff:

    • Chris, your argument would have a lot more credibility if those same conservative Christians didn’t 1: so gleefully disobey what Jesus Christ actually taught. And 2: Didn’t so gleefully act like the Christian version of Iran’s ayatollah’s and 3: didn’t so gleefully wallow in hypocrisy.

      Just a few days ago there was a republican politician arguing that the poor should be deprived of health care because “Jesus said there would always be poor people.”

      You quoted Oliver Cromwell. Let me quote someone a little closer to our time. “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” –Barry Goldwater.

  13. Thank you, John P. for those wonderful words.

    I’ve been boycotting Disney for a long time because of the image of women they have presented with those fatuous, helpless, Disney princesses.

    You make a strong case. It is indeed hypocritical to boycott Disney when one has demonstrated that is one voted for the Cheeto Voldemort that one holds to the exact same “values” as he: authoritarianism; bigotry; gynophobia; hatred of anyone different from one’s self; homophobia; intolerance of any disagreement; misogyny; racism; rape; sexual assault and molest; transgenderphobia; white supremacy; and xenophobia.

  14. Did they also boycott Moonlight? Because if so it didn’t matter because it won best picture. It seems now more than ever people are marching, boycotting, etc. I hope the boycotters of this movie get equally boycotted for their bigotry. There is never outrage at rape or incest or justice for victims of hate crimes because their sexual orientation. To boycott a film with an openly male character….I just look at those people with disdain and with pity over their pathetic lives.

  15. I have had such a hard time understanding why Christians love Trump. Some say they had no choice because they would not vote for Hillary but I have been profoundly confused and greive the blatant joy that many “good people” are getting from backing him.
    After a conversation I had recently with other women who grew up as I did, it dawned on me that this pattern is not new, in fact it’s been very much alive in the shadows. Many have known and been a part of the cover up of abuse and ungodliness by church leaders and members at the devastating expense of the “less than” in their midst. Christians have hidden these sins for years and continue to do so. It’s very rare for a prominent leader to be exposed for abuse unless it is impossible to hide anymore. The more powerful the leader the more protection they receive. This is such a well worn path in the brotherhood and trying to hold a elder, deacon, pastor or evangelist accountable is not easy, especially where woman and children are involved.
    Finally the curtain has been pulled back and we see this “pattern” in full view. All those who have eyes to see it do, but there are still those who refuse to see no matter how concrete the evidence. (Video, sound bites, facts and testimony). It baffles me.
    As hard as this is to witness it has given me a gift. It confirms that all those years I was not crazy. I saw it, I experienced it but was blown off, belittled and silenced. It’s a relief and a sadness to my spirit to witness the absolute truth that they know and don’t care.
    I’m hopeful this is the end of the hold the church has on so many, and dare I say, (lightening rod in hand) the end of the church I have known since my youth. I can’t say I’m sorry to see it go. There is a huge amount of healing that so many need in the wake of all the damage done.
    My hope is a unified, loving movement of truth and integrity will rise up and take its place where love reigns, diversity strengthens and acceptance heals. You know, the kind of movement Jesus talked about. What’s happening has fanned the fire of hope in me more than ever. I’m confident and believe that the truth will truly set us free.

    • if I hadn’t left the GOP 20 years ago when the GOP flipped its lid at Bill Clinton then Trump even getting close to being the nominee would have sent me running for the hills from the GOP and I would have had no problem voting for Hillary.

      I would have preferred voting for Bernie but *shrugs* Hillary while not perfect is still lightyears better than Trump.

  16. The Church of Disney will take your cash the same as any other church. Just pick your allegiance and drop off your cash accordingly.

    • yeah well I don’t see Disney threatening me with eternal damnnation if the last Disney films I saw were Lion King and Toy Story.

  17. Well now – for those here who function in reality rather than fantasy….

    Since election day, four special elections (in blue states) have occurred.
    Virginia (house & Senate, Minnesota and Connecticut – and guess what…..every Democrat lost by wide margins if not double digits.
    Even more interesting, Democrats outspent Republicans 2 to 1!

    Here’s the undisputed fact:
    The Democrat party lost a net total of 1,042 state and federal Democratic posts–including congressional and state legislative seats, governorship’s, and the presidency–while Barack Obama was president and this trend continues.

    Now why is this important – well ….”voters”; even in states that went for Shillary continue to move away from the fantasy land John P represents…..

    So, be good observers and pay attention – the “tyranny of the minority” will continue to wane as local, state and federal power centers shift.

    • I will only speak to one aspect. There were 3 people in the Ct specials election, two Dems won by larger margins than has been seen in quite a while and the Rep won in a very red area by a smaller margin. I don’t know if your info came from Faux News but at least get the correct info when you cast shade.

      • Look it up….
        Republican State Rep. Eric Berthel beat his Democratic opponent, Greg Cava, by 12 points for an open Connecticut state Senate seat in the 32nd district.

        • That was one, ONE, of THREE, in a red district. That is what I said, the other two which you conveniently left out thats TWO, twice as many as one, were Dems who won by larger margins than in the past. The republican was expected to win. That does not mean the Dems are a dying party. Get your facts right. Please and read what someone writes.

          • Kathleen, as you have probably noticed, those that come here to troll John P are rarely concerned with facts or reading what people actually write, especially when it contradicts their preferred worldview, even when that worldview has no basis in reality.

            • I know but he was casting shade on my beloved Connecticut. Trying to make people believe that it all of a sudden has become RED. NOT. I tried and just couldn’t let it go. Don’t live there anymore but my roots and most of my family are there. Peace……………..

                • Thank you for that. I was born and raised there, my family helped found most of the towns in SE Conn along the coast, most of my family are still there and a lot of my heart is still there. Nice to know that others are living up to what I believe about the place. Peace…………

                  • –During Obama’s Administration, 1,045 elected seats in the DEM party were replaced by REP. (it couldn’t all be redistricting) what’s up with that?

                    President Obama is livin’ the dream. He & his ‘live-in’ V.P. (Jarret) have set up their ‘3rd Term’ just blocks from the WH. [weird?]

    • well Anon, you aren’t the majority. You jokers are far closer to being the minority than us Democrats, child. Or did you not notice that Trump only got 17% of the people to vote for him?

      Oh btw, child, that special election in Minnesota. that was for a district that had been held by Republicans since..oh…2010. And that area of Minnesota is so Republican bent that God could come down here, run as a Democrat and lose.

      So no, child, you really don’t get to claim that represents some sort of shift towards the GOP.

  18. John… not everyone who believes that homosexual *activity* (as opposed to orientation) is sinful believes in gay-bashing , and certainly not everyone who believes that homosexual activity is sinful supports Trump.
    There’s a whole segment of Christianity whose leader, Pope Francis, reiterates the Church’s teaching that homosexuality is a “disordered state”, but who also declares that ” the church’s respect for LGBT individuals “must be real, not rhetorical, and ever reflective of the Church’s commitment to accompanying all people”
    …and the Holy Father is definitely not a supporter of Donald Trump.

    • And we are lucky that a majority of US Roman Catholics don’t feel the way that you & the Pope do at all. Check with the religious pollsters, over 50% of US Catholics support equal marriage, don’t support denial of services based on deeply held homophobic beliefs (such as yours) and love & support their LGBTQ family & friends in spite of what His Holiness has to say about it.

    • Cynthia Raenette Gee, these are the words of the homophobic. These are words of straight privilege and not the words of someone who loves her neighbor as herself as God has first loved her.

      Were I gay, these words would be just another slap upside the head.

      God creates people gay. That’s the bottom line.

      • Conservative Christians, Catholic Church, Mormons, Orthodox Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims , and every sect there-in, teach against homosexual marriage. Progressive Christians and some atheists approve of homosexual marriage.

      • Ms. Amalfitano, the attitude of “I want it all and I want it now” works fine on TV and in the movies, but not so much in real life. The Pope is working against centuries of Catholic dogma and tradition.

        By all means, slap him for making small steps in the right direction instead of encouraging him for having the courage to make those steps against such opposition in the first place.

        European and North American Catholics are more liberal than their African, Asian and South American counterparts. He has to work to keep the Catholic Church united, not tear it apart.

        Pope Francis is pushing in the right direction. He should be supported in that because I know he has his detractors in the Church for doing what he is doing. The point is he is making a point. If he succeeds at making this stand with enough support within the Church, he can take another … then another.

        I don’t doubt there are homosexual Catholics who want full acceptance of who they are. I don’t doubt they are pained by the conflict they have between who they are, the faith they have embraced and the internal conflict that brings. I would like to think they see Pope Francis as understanding some of their pain and working to ease it … and they understand he must work slowly for the billions of other Catholics who are still unsure about what you and I understand ~ homosexuals are as much made in God’s image as any heterosexual.

        Time ~ patience ~ moving forward in the right direction.

    • Cynthia thanks for your comment. If you are not one of those boycotting the movie consider this to not be about you.

    • Thank you, Cynthia Raenette Gee, for stating the Catholic teaching so clearly and kindly, distinguishing between the inclination and the activity. Those of our brothers and sisters who experience same-sex attraction need to be loved and accompanied, never ostracized or demeaned.

    • Ah, yes, ‘Love the sinner, but hate the sin.’ How many have I heard that bullshit! I’ll tell you what’s a “disordered state”, Cynthia; the Roman Catholic Church suppressing half of humanity (females) in the belief they are inferior; protesting birth control, while millions of people, including children, starve to death; standing by, as pedophile priests and nuns sodomize helpless youngsters and then try to make excuses and pay off the families in order to maintain their gilded reputation. It’s also a “disordered state” that Judaism believes it’s perfectly okay to strap their infant sons to a board and half part of his penis cut off because some unidentified old bastard sitting in a cave overlooking the Sea of Galilee some 2,000 years ago said it was okay. It’s a “disordered state” that Islam forces women to wear those stupid veils and circus tents; making look like beekeepers.

      Even Pope Francis said we needed to pray for those pedophile priests. Excuse me?! Several years ago the bishop of the archdiocese here in Dallas, Texas stated in a radio interview that altar boys who were molested might bear some responsibility for what happened to them. People have killed themselves because of what happened to them as children at the hands of the perverts who run the Catholic Church.

      Like I’ve stated here – and to several others in private conversations – Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the three most vile ideologies humanity has ever conceived. They are collectively responsible for most of the suffering humanity has endured for nearly 2 millennia. Entire peoples have been enslaved and / or annihilated because of them. Christianity alone is responsible for the widest-ranging and longest-lasting genocide on the planet: the near-total destruction of the indigenous peoples of the Western Hemisphere. (I know that’ll piss off a lot of Jews who’ll wrap themselves in the Star of David and play the victim card, but I don’t give a shit.) I don’t see humanity moving beyond the grips of these three monsters any time soon, but I can only wish I see it in my lifetime.

  19. John, you said “…a seemingly endless stream of decisions targeting the poorest, sickest, most vulnerable—not to mention the water we drink, the air we breath, and the planet we stand on. (Thank God there aren’t any Bible verses addressing any of that stuff, or these folks would be looking pretty darn ridiculous right about now.)”
    I suggest that there ARE Bible verses about that–the ones that deal with stewardship:
    (First, the definition of stewardship that I am working from: “the job of supervising or TAKING CARE OF SOMETHING (my emphasis), such as an organization or property.”)
    Genesis 2:15: “Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.”
    1 Corinthians 4:1-2: “Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy.”
    1 Peter 4:10: “As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace.”
    Here is a thoughtful conclusion about stewardship:
    “Jesus said “Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.” (Matt 13:12) so which are you? Are you a good steward? Then you will receive a great reward but if not, you will receive little or next to nothing. As for me, I would rather hear Jesus say “Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master” (Matt 25:23). I suspect that if you’re a believer, that’s what you want to hear too.” (Jack Wellman, “Top 7 Bible Verses About Stewardship”, from

    From the moment God created Adam and Eve, human beings have been charged by God to be stewards, in both a physical sense (caring for the planet) and a spiritual sense (caring for the people).
    It seems that too many Christians think that being a steward means that they “own” the planet and they can do “anything they want to”, to it–and they are not terribly concerned with keeping it in anything approaching a pristine state. Why should they? They are only here for a short while (comparatively speaking) and then they will go to Heaven to be with God. So it doesn’t matter if the Earth herself becomes polluted, fouled, destroyed…it has “nothing to do with God”. (So their thinking seems to go.) My own mother has expressed this view, also citing the verse about God giving “dominion over all” to Adam. And her explanation made it very clear that she believed it meant that humans were allowed to do whatever they wanted to the Earth. Further, her explanation also made it sorely obvious that she considered human beings to somehow be outside of the cycles and realities of the ecosystems, the use of resources and so on. They are not part of the equation when figuring out how life on Earth works.
    According to what I’ve read in the Bible, she is wrong on all counts.
    Imagine a world where every Christian actually *did* this work. It meshes neatly into Matthew 25:36-41, where Jesus laid out the tasks that his followers were to do: feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and et cetera. Not only were humans called to be stewards of Nature, but they are to be “stewards of God’s mysteries”, to care for others in a way that reflected God’s love and care for his children.
    Being a steward is hard work. Apparently it’s much easier to boycott and protest things that have ZERO to do with God or the Bible.
    ( )
    ( )

  20. If supposed Christians are against gays, that’s already a pretty big irony considering the number of gay people who work there. Typical of their never-ending hypocrisy. How about you quit going to just about any kind of entertainment, concert, musical, theater, or dramatic program, period. More tickets for the rest of us.

  21. Nicely stated John. The mainline church wonders why it’s losing members. Easy. It is not a place of refuge, hope or love. So much of it is a place of “my way or the highway”; their way being the cherry picked Bible beliefs they have….which with Trump obviously shifted.

    • Thanks for your comment John. Just one important clarification. The mainline Christian churches are not the ones responsible for all the religious loon-nut crazy stuff you encounter. It is almost exclusively the estate of the Christian fundamentalist, Conservative Evangelical, Charismatic, and Pentecostal Churches in the United States. They are the central headquarters for “batsh*t crazy in American religion. You can read all about it at my blog:

    • JW: The Mainline Churches, are preaching what John P. preaches [‘Worldly Progressive Christianity’.] And that’s why they are losing members. Who needs Church to be in the world?

      The Conservative Churches that teach the narrow road bible are large & growing larger. (Seekers want something different than what the World offers.)

      • leslie, I have heard both sides saying the other side is losing members and their side is getting bigger– I am confused which is it?

      • Jesus does. He needs his church to be everywhere. As Baptist preachers are so famous for saying:

        “Her feet and head are so much in Heaven that she has become of no use to God in this world.”

        The church was established in this world and it has a purpose here—and there is more to that purpose than evangelism alone.

  22. This has been a very wonderful post by John, and the comment thread was very, very wonderful.

    Kathleen, you brought up something earlier in the thread that I was very glad to hear. It was about ignoring the negative stuff and/or not responding to the t—-s.

    “Those” people come here just for that very reason – to get people to react and get pissed off. It’s a power trip. “Look how easily I can provoke you and have you lose your peace! Ha, ha, ha”

    I love this place and there are so many wonderful people that come here. Those of you who know me a bit know how important you and John and this place are to me.

    But yesterday, this place was disgusting. I could barely stand to stick around. “Those” people were here in droves, and several here just took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. And went on and on and on with it. This beautiful place was so F*ing toxic I couldn’t stand to stay and let it get all over me.

    Today, here, has been beautiful. A lot of very wise, warm, and friendly people who, even if they might not agree, are mature enough to keep it civil.

    And then it happened. Someone decided to get kind of snotty and judgmental, and two of you, whom I like most of all here, started to take the bait and run with it. And it went back and forth, but fortunately it died down.

    I would like to ask you, PLEASE, could we just try this for a time. PLEASE. If someone is making obviously vile, provocative statements, could you just PLEASE NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THEM and just move on to the next thing. And, could we PLEASE, PLEASE not bring up the “T” word or anyone’s NAMES, or SPECULATE ABOUT IT? Every time you do that, they show up and GET OFF ON IT AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

    Can we PLEASE just try this? Because if that back and forth, immature bullsh*t keeps up because you allow them to just snatch up your peace by choosing to participate, it ruins this place for everyone.

    It makes me not want to come here anymore.

    • Ah, I apologize. Point taken, and I agree. Sometimes it’s hard, though, so if once in a while we fall short please be patient with us. Peace,

    • Edward M.,

      You wrote, “But yesterday, this place was disgusting. I could barely stand to stick around. “Those” people were here in droves, and several here just took the bait, hook, line, and sinker. And went on and on and on with it. This beautiful place was so F*ing toxic I couldn’t stand to stay and let it get all over me.”

      I am sorry to be the one to tell you this, and maybe you have figured it out for yourself, but some of the people with whom engaged yesterday are among the worst offenders here. It’s pretty obvious who is here to profit from John P’s wisdom and pastoral care, absorbing the words he speaks with a prophetic voice, and those who are here to tear him down in the most vile way possible. You don’t want a certain word used, but sadly that is what they are. Charles has discovered that there internet sites that teach people how to be more effective at it.

      • Thank you for reading and responding, my dear friends. I’m sorry that I sort of used some unpleasant language. I genuinely apologize for that, because it’s irritating to some and very offensive to others.

        I realize that the worst of the worst were here yesterday. Can you imagine, however, that if NO ONE acknowledged them AT ALL how deflating that would be? If you put yourself in their shoes (hard, I know), where you went to some site and started posting (anything, whatever, it doesn’t matter) and waited for a reply. And waited. And posted again. And waited. No replies. Not one. And tried one more time. Nothing. And came back way later. Nothing. Talk about being dismissed.

        Not only is there no payback, but now it’s there for everyone to see: this person has posted three times and NO ONE has acknowledged them. THAT would be very embarrassing, and I would venture to say that they would be reluctant to post any additional comments that day, as it would become even more glaring that NO ONE ANSWERED THIS PERSON. They may try again tomorrow, but if we keep it up, we have taken our power back. If that becomes the norm, they will be far less likely to even show up: no payback (taking people’s power away by pissing them off), and it will be embarrassing to them if we meet them across the board with no attention.

        I’m sure that there will be some “marginal” people that we may choose to acknowledge, and I guess we’ll just have to use our own good judgment. I had an experience the other day like that with a person who was bashing JP (I think you were there, too, Kathleen), and instead of retaliating I simply said, in essence, “If you don’t like it so much, then why are you here? If I felt the same as you, I sure wouldn’t be wasting my time hanging around here.” That person had no reply. I didn’t attack them, I just asked why they were here if it was so distasteful. The only answer that is possible to give is foolish, so they say nothing. That person had nothing else to say to me after that.

        Thank you, again, for listening. I deeply appreciate you, you all know who you are.

        And, Kathleen, you needn’t be concerned about any judgment from me if you get caught up – you don’t answer to me, I’m your friend. It doesn’t matter how well you do it or don’t do it – I love you just the same. And that goes for all of you who replied. I am grateful for you good and loving people. I want to be here with you very much.

        • Edward, I very much appreciate what you are saying. May I suggest another thing we can do is engage people frankly like you are doing. For those who are truly meaning harm, ostracizing them as you suggest, works– but for those who sincerely have a different opinion perhaps engaging them respectfully first off rather than attacking them or being suspicious of them, would work towards building bridges between us in the long run.

          Liberals and conservatives are both legitimate christians–catholics and protestants are both legitimate christians. I believe there is a broader church consisting of all who are called. Oftentimes it is the hurt from our wounds responding to those who hold a different view. Even JP falls in to that category at times. He was hurt by the church as well. Many of us were.

          We can recognize that some who come hear have a different view but are not out to harass us rather it is an opportunity, for us, to show them grace and welcome them– not turn our backs on them.

          Our first encounter with people can be welcoming. There have been many missed opportunities on this blog for fellowship between those who have different opinions about things.

          • Hi Kathy,
            I could not agree more with you. In fact, I think your point describes a really important distinction that reaches far beyond just this site. As far as I am concerned, two rational, respectful people who are on opposite sides if the belief or political spectrum have more in common and a better chance of growing, changing, or resolving an issue than two people of somewhat similar beliefs or political views who are fearful, disrespectful and stubborn.

            I actually wrote a lot more on this on John’s next blog, “There’s no such thing as a Bible believing Christian”, mostly in the latter third of the thread, in 3 (?) posts.

            I like what you have to say, Kathy.

            Edward M.

  23. In the last couple of days, six people have asked to join my Facebook group. Only one person answered the security question, the screening question, so as a result the other five were declined.

    As you can imagine, a group such as mine has over time attracted many a person whose only desire is to cause trouble or spam us with unwanted merchandise. That’s why there is a screening, security question.

    If you were one of those who responded to my invitation and have not yet been informed that you are now part of my group, the reason is I declined to admit you because you didn’t answer the question.

    If you would like to join, please be sure to take the time to respond to that question. Thank you.

    One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

    • Hi Gloriamarie, I am not sure whether the problem is on my end or yours, but I tried to answer your screening question, but when I push the submit response button, nothing happens. It just cycles back to my response in the box with the submit button still there. I will keep trying and hope you don’t get 50 responses from me!

      • Leah, I am sorry that you are having problems. I wish I could fix it but to computer is an arcane gnosis which mysteries have yet to be vouchsafed unto me so I haven’t a clue.

        What is very puzzling is that other people manage to submit their answer. How frustrating.

        I accepted some people this morning. If you were one of the rejected, please try again and I’ll keep an eye out for your first name.

  24. Spoiler Warning! I think I hurt myself from the eye roll caused by the theater cancelling this movie… despite the fact that it was totally predictable that somebody would get their knickers in a knot over this plot point. First, from everything I’ve read, the movie doesn’t make it definitively clear that LeFou is gay. Indeed, if it were not for recent articles about the subject, I think it would have gone over the heads of most people while watching the movie, and it’s extremely unlikely that kids will figure it out when they see it. That said, more than a week ago, when I saw scene of LeFou singing the Gaston song, my thought was, “Okay, someone’s got a man-crush!” but that could have been easily interrupted as a straight guy being so impressed with another guy who gets all the attention and accolades… I mean, just think about how tons of guys act about their sports heroes or favorite musician in their favorite rock band. Furthermore, even if it were obvious that LeFou is gay, seriously, if that’s someone’s biggest worry in life that a fictional character is gay, that person should count themselves lucky that their life is so easy… actually, easier than the life of a lot of gay people.

    That said, of the various changes to the cartoon that I’ve seen in previews, I find this easier to accept without a concern than plot points like Belle plotting from the beginning to escape (especially since it was Belle’s request for a rose that gets her father in trouble for stealing it) and Belle being told about the curse ahead of time. From a character development stand point, LeFou having some latent romantic feelings towards Gaston makes LeFou’s behavior a little more understandable, rather than LeFou just being some run of the mill lackey who admires this person who is jerk people, including LeFou himself. When someone has romantic feelings for another person, looking at them through the proverbial rose colored glasses, they may be more willing to overlook the behavior of the person whom those feeling are about. The only compelling argument against this vaguely referenced plot point is a comment that I saw from someone in the LGBT community that pointed out that it was kind of lousy that they get representation in a movie in the form of a guy who’s a creep willing to prop up the villain.

    Personally, I look forward to the release of the live action “Beauty and the Beast”… though I have concerns about some of the other aforementioned plot points and how they may impact the story as whole, it think the visual impact of this film will be well worth the cost of a movie ticket… and not all change is inherently bad, remember “Beauty and the Beast” existed LONG before Disney’s cartoon, and I actually like that they incorporated from other versions of the tale the plot point of Belle’s father picking the rose being what earns him the wrath of the Beast… I also like that the costume designer put practical thought into costuming decisions, like Belle’s blue dress has large pouch for her to keep a book with her, and the side of her skirt is hitched up to make it easier for Belle to mount and ride a horse — very clever.

    To see the scene that has some people in a tizzy, here is the Gaston song clip: where LeFou sings accompanied by a crowd of other village sycophants who think abusive, bully Gaston can do no wrong. At the end of the day, among the various versions of “Beauty and the Beast” over hundreds of years, BatB is about societies fawning over those people with superficial strength, regardless of their cruelty, while misfits like the Beast and Belle are looked down upon as less than. Thus, the tantrum that some are having about the mere implication of a gay character in this movie actually exemplifies that they are part of the Gaston fawning crowd in real life. ‘Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?’
    #BeautyAndTheBeast #BatB #Disney

    • Thank you, that was truly interesting. All those crazy protesters are the jerky sycophants. That puts the best interpretation on it. How droll.

  25. The hypocrisy is real. Tonight, my evangelical Christian family (father retired pastor) is posting all over social media to pray for my brother, his wife and children who are in immediate danger on the Somalia border where they went for “vacation” in their adventurous online Christian blogging life mixed with online business. This is the same brother and sister-in-law who did a video a few months ago boycotting Target because their it was too dangerous for their children to use the bathrooms now that Transgender could use the bathrooms they identified with. My entire family is worried and frantic over if they are going to be able to escape the border of Somalia. But those bathrooms…

    • DJ… I pray they get home safely. asap. –kinda of surprised you have energy to criticize them when they are in eminent danger. –let us know how they are doing. sounds frightening. thank you.

  26. Some people live in the Middle Ages and try to pretend that they’re not living, working, recreating, and yes, even peeing, next to LGBT people all the time and have been for centuries. They just don’t want to admit it and they’re so unhappy now that LGBT people are coming out of the closet and enjoying life. In about 28 states, though gays can legally marry, they can still be evicted or fired from a job for the sole reason that they are LGBT. Yet they are tax-paying American citizens! We still have a lot of growing up to do, America!

    • You just explained something I have grappled with. When I think back to when I was young, the dark ages as my sons refer to it, I don’t remember people getting all upset about gay people but most wouldn’t have let anyone other than a trusted few know that they were gay. I knew people who were gay, some were close friends, but as I think back, no one really outside of friends, acknowledged it. Now most of the people I know are out of the closet and I guess all the bigots can’t pretend that they don’t exist. I just hadn’t thought about it in that way. Thanks,

    • siddigfan, when Obama was giving his speech, 11/08, I wept with joy that the USA had finally grown up. Then I watched the cockroach-like authoritarians, bigots, gynophobes, homophobes, misogynists, the prejudiced, racists, rapists, sexual assaulters and molesters, transgenderphobes, white supremacists, and xenophobe flow out of the woodwork and I realized I was wrong. This country is still full of immature toddlers and now we have one in the WH.

      • Gloriamarie,
        Well said. I too had some hope after the 2008 elections, even though Obama was a centrist beholden to the people who caused the great recession. Immediately the GOP said, publicly, that their number one mission was to make sure Obama failed, and the Tea Party with their racism began pushing the nation to the extreme right. The election of a mixed race man awakened and galvanized the worst of elements of our nation into action. Those people are now in power and our nation and the world is suffering as a result.

        One thing that strikes me as particularly relevant is that the theme of Obama as the anti-Christ was a constant presence in some “Christian” circles, but no one on the religious right is suggesting that of Trump despite the fact that his behavior is almost completely contrary to the life of Christ.

        • Chris Lamke, Exactly so. I have many a friend who asked why wasn’t Obama being the liberal he is and I asked them how they got the impression he was anything but a moderate.

          As for the Christian thing, how a man with a record of faithful church attendance could ever have had his faith doubt is something I will never understand. We saw examples every day of the way his faith shaped his actions. Look at the way he bent over backward trying to woo recalcitrant GOP into bi-partisanship, but they wouldn’t meet him halfway.

          Why isn’t Trump being attacked for all of his decidedly non-Christian values?

          Something I wonder about… the conservatives were screaming in outrage at his abuse of the Constitution. I daresay a man who taught Constitutional law at Harvard knows the Constitution better than his attackers, else there would be outrage over the stomping on the Constitution that is a hallmark of the present administration.

          • Good post Gloriamarie, I never understood how they couldn’t see that Obama turned the other cheek. I would have assumed that they would have admired that, but no, I guess the color got in the way. He definitely was not a liberal but I’m not sure it would have mattered. My sense is that if he had suggested one of their pet projects, all of a sudden they would have hated it. He was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t and that, my friend, was the shame of it, it had nothing to do with ideology, other than the one that we are a white nation of christians. At least that is how I perceive it. Peace…………

            • I am convinced the only reason Obama is as hated as he is, is abused, insulted, berated, etc is 100% solely due to his skin color.

              At no other time when a Democrat won the Presidency have the GOP gone into a huddle on election night and vowed to oppose every single thing he did by whatever means. Their favorite means, of course, turned out to be lies. And as these lies suited the prejudices of the ones lied too, they believed them.

              • As a Republican in 2008, I can tell you soon-to-be President Obama’s Race wasn’t foremost on many our minds.

                First off … we were pretty surprised you chose Barack over Hillary because she was far more qualified in 2008 with more Washington experience and twice his time in Congress to boot.

                Then there is this quote by our 44th President back in November, 4th 2004: “I can unequivocally say I will not be running for national office in four years.” Whoops.

                No. Our biggest concerns were his pseudo-Communist mentorship in Chicago, his poor record in the Illinois Senate and his lack of experience compared to both Hillary and McCain.

                Was he really a Kenyan? We discounted such nonsense. We assumed the Clinton’s weren’t that incompetent to let that slip by in the primaries.

                Muslim? Nope. He went to Jeremiah Wright’s church, if you recall.

                No. We simply thought he was the least prepared for the top spot. Back in 2008, we thought that might matter. You proved us wrong.

                Initially we thought Hillary was a shoe-in too. We figured whomever the Dems put up would win due to the crappy shape of the economy and war fatigue … then Barack won the Dem primary and we had hope once more.

                Then … here it comes … my Black friends clued me in … they were going to vote Obama in 2008 … because he was Black and only because he was Black. They didn’t know when the next opportunity to vote a Black person into the Presidency would arrive so this was what they were going to do. I appreciated their honesty even while it filled me with dread.

                Oh yeah … there was racism going on alright ~ just not White racism. The polling numbers bear this out of course. Mind you, we all knew the Dems did better with most minorities than we Republicans, but this was a stampede. The proof is in the sheer number of minority votes cast in 2008 hasn’t been equaled by any candidate since.

                From what I recall, not a single person I knew was a Democrat who switched parties because Obama was Black, or a single ‘anything else’ decided to vote against Obama because he was Black.

                Then, in 2012, President Obama received 3.5 million FEWER votes than he earned in 2008 while Romney received a million more … and still lost … think about that. A 4.5 million voter shift and Barack STILL won … which is why I call the results of 2008 a stampede.

                Then there was the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize … yeah … we were talking about that too.

                Yes, there were wing-nuts out there. They are still out there. To think they dominated the debate on the ‘other side’ is foolish. It just wasn’t so.

                Maybe there was some angry old White Dems who didn’t use the internet much who railed against such a thing. They were not in the chat rooms I visited. I also discounted rumors he was an Ethiopian prince and a descendant of King Solomon ~ part of some uber-Jewish conspiracy. Woot!

                What I am saying is mainstream Republican resistance wasn’t as obsessed with Race as you think we were. Trolls using the N-word were usually deleted, or mocked if not. Stupid is stupid.

  27. John P. did a marvelous job on this post—actually out did himself. Our family will no doubt watch this movie in some form because we like Emma Watson.

    I would like to make a suggestion. Pick out two Southern Baptist or Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) churches in your area; get the pastor’s e-mail address from their website; send him a URL link to John P.’s blog article. Tell him you are a Christian and close your short message by telling him that his church’s support of Donald Trump and his outrageous package of daily sin has caused you to lose all respect for Christian fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism—and emphasize that both they and their church have become the new national standard for moral depravity and hypocrisy on the American stage.

    Speak the truth to fat-bellied “power”!!!

  28. John P, I know I’m getting boring by my constant admiration of all you do to help us limping (so to speak) people walk a bit longer, stand a bit taller, and be encouraged to endure a bit longer. I doubt that you realize how many of us you lift up and make us realize that
    we are not alone. You helped me when my husband died when you wrote “It’s Gonna Be Ok”. I have since sent that essay to others who have lost loved ones and they, in turn, have sent in on to suffering friends and family who have lost their loved ones. For the untold number of times: Thank you again and again.
    I understand that you do not read the replies to this blog, but just in case you decide to get curious and peek in, I just wanted you to know this.

    • Dear Anonymous, I am in agreement with you about John. I am deeply grateful for him, and all of you. Thank you.

      I am so sorry for the loss of your husband. I wish for you much peace and love.

    • I have thought about you today and I know that you didn’t post about your husbands death for sympathy, and I won’t say I know what you went thru or are going thru, I don’t, I just felt the need to send you a hug and let you know that there are lots of us out here that are with you. Peace………….

      • Dear Edward and Kathleen: Thank you for your kind words

        My husband died very shortly after John P’s father and for him to reach out to others who may have been going through what he was experiencing… well, what can I say? He’s an incredible man who helps the grieving while he, himself, is grieving.

        If anyone ever loses a loved one, go to John P’s archives and try to find that essay. I practically memorized the whole thing. I kept repeating day after day, “it’s gonna be ok, It’s gonna be ok.

        And, ya’ know what? He was right. It’s ok now. I hope it’s ok with him, too.

  29. fat lazy americans are not about to boycott disney. their children might awaken during the night and kill them dead with fire. plus it would require them to stand up for something other than racism, homophobia, islamophobia and just general fear hatred and rage. pass the deep fried twinkie please. christians! besides, isn’t that a contradiction in terms? aren’t they really following the apostles paul and peter who made new rules soon as zombie jeebus went into the clouds?

  30. however, you really need a love button for this post!!! like the orange ferret wearing fascist you’ve used the best words!!! except yours are true

  31. As a Christian and registered Republican, I am appalled by state of this country. This article demonstrates it very well. Very vocal amd very ignorant people who claim to be Christians and cherry pick the Bible to enforce their predjudices and agendas have abandoned all willingmess to understand the meanings of Jesus’s words and actions. This willful use of interpretive blinders has also served to help elect a man who is in no way a true Republican, and holds zero real Christian ideals, to the office of the highest seat of the executive branch of our government.

    With all of that in place, let’s all flip tables over the sexual orientation of a supporting character in a work of fiction and how we assume it will damage the moral fabric of our children. Because there’s never been an LGBQT character in fiction before, right?

    And, frankly, LeFou was apparently gay in the animated version already. So there’s not even a leg to stand on for a complaint about “changing a classic.” Disney alters the stories from the originals anyway. No one boycotted The Little Mermaid because Ariel didn’t turn into sea foam.

    Disney’s artistic license in the production of escapist entertainment is such a non-issue, even if the person in the oval office was universally favorable to all Americans regardless of religion or party affiliation. But given the seriousness of the misstep we’ve taken in the stewardship of our country, it’s an even more preposterous subject to rally on.

    • Mark, I really appreciate what you have written. We need more voices like yours here.

      As soon as I heard about this Christian Right boycott of Disney and how outraged they were, I thought to myself what a successful red herring this is as it draws our attention away from some really serious concerns Republicans must focus on. Such as would be Cabinet members perjuring themselves before the Senate. Such as Russia’s interference with our election process. Such as the Trump campaign evidently embracing Russia’s interference. Looming lack of medical care for millions and millions of our fellow citizens…

      I could go on. But these are real issues. A LGBTQ person in the film industry is not because they have been in the film industry since the get go.

  32. Pavlovitz begins and ends with a false presumption…that all Christians are happy with, and voted for Trump, despite his personal actions, and therefore his entire assertion, no matter how cleverly written with large words,is false as well. I assure you, no true follower of Christ ever touted Trump as a devout Christian, nor have we voted for him based on his theology. Most evangelicals backed Trump for 3 reasons. 1) by nature, we are both fiscally conservative and socially conservative. Trump promised a smaller government, better negotiations of national and international contracts, and protection to be able to express our faith without looking over our shoulders for the PC police. 2) promise of nomination of a Scalia like conservative constructionist on the Supreme court, and 3) Because Hillary was his opponent and we felt any choice the Republicans came up with would be closer to our values than her. Our beliefs haven’t changed, our focus isn’t diminished, and Christians have the same right to express their disdain for a movie, product, etc… as anyone on the right has for blocking the appointed Sec of Education from going into a school, BLM protesters for blocking traffic, looting, etc… Look for double standards with a better argument.

    • Jeff,
      John doesn’t make the assumption you’re claiming. He doesn’t say that anywhere. In fact, he’s very good at avoiding binary perspectives.

      We define ourselves by our actions. If you voted for Trump, you may not like him or approve of his behavior, but by your vote, you affirm that you support a man who:
      1. Is a sexual predator and treats women as objects for men to use
      2. Supports white nationalism
      3. Treats Muslims and other refugees who need our help as objects to be hated.

      You likely have reasons that seemed to warrant voting for Trump, but the fact is that you supported a fascist who stands against everything Jesus Christ stood for. You enabled a man and a movement driven by hatred instead of love. At the end of the day, your acts in the world matter much more than any words you use to justify those actions to yourself.

      • Thank you for you thoughtful answer. You also saved me because I knew he needed an answer but couldn’t seem to come up with the right wording. You did well. Thanks,

      • I can’t thank you enough, Christopher. Anyone who disagrees with anything John Pavlovitz says is just evil and stupid. They hate old women and puppies and want to reinstate the Atlantic slave trade. I am surprised anyone so dumb is capable of even surviving the day without accidentally walking into traffic or sticking metal utensils into electrical outlets.

    • Umm… Jeff… I have no idea how long you have been reading this blog and the comments, but over the months there are many here who claim to be Christians who are overjoyed that the Cheeto Voldemort was elected and many have touted Trump as a devout Christian.

      As for the three reasons you list, if you consider voting for those whose policies are based on evil plans, such as dismantling all the climate protections, the EPA, reversing Clean Car Laws etc an improvement over Hillary, then the result is that you voted for evil.

      • Well said, Gloriamarie.

        I don’t agree with calling 45 or his minions names, but I completely understand the impulse such a hateful man inspires. My wife can’t stand to utter his name, so we’ve settled on calling him 45. I don’t think he deserves to be called President because he refused to run honorably (even denying he’d accept the election results unless he won) and has no respect for truth or the rule of law. As a former soldier and deputy sheriff, I’m glad the military and most others in positions of authority take an oath to defend the Constitution rather than an oath to obey a particular person.

        • I have never called people names, my grandsons think the s word stands for stupid but in this case we have made an exception. My husband and I use the “orange man”. I can’t bear his name or his face. I understand your wife. Peace…………

  33. I will say that regardless of one’s opinion and where they stand on the LGBTQ front, they have every right to boycott a business that promotes a standard they do not agree with. (Isn’t boycotting a favorite tactic of the left anyways?)

    I will point out that 95% of what’s written here are ad-hominem attacks with fancy words to make your argument more appealing. You present no logical case to support your beliefs, you merely attacked the morality of both President Trump and Conservative Christians because they voted for him. #1 Your attacks at morality are unfounded and false, #2 Christians have rights to boycott just as much as everyone else, #3 I’ve found conservative news sources to be a lot more polite than anything you’ve written. How’s that for “tolerance”.

    • Daenon, I can see where you are coming from. Evangelicals are often polite when they condemn people– after the preacher whips them up into a hateful frenzy. I’ve seen this happen with my own eyes. The preacher gives a fire and brimstone sermon and afterwards he says gently “Now go and speak truth in love”. My thoughts always come back to– just because you are polite it doesn’t make your condemnation any softer or gentler to those you are condemning.

      Anyways, I wonder if you can see that from a LGBT person’s point of view?

      • I would add that the polite condemnation hurts more than someone who is just out there condemning. No one has said they shouldn’t boycott, I say knock yourself out, doesn’t matter to me, what matters is be honest, about it. Not duplicitous in voting for an amoral, (I know, he’s white and he likes girls,) person, then get all up in arms about a movie. I think John was just pointing out the incongruity of it. I also doubt that most conservative christian could see anything from a LGBT perspective. I do appreciate you attempt at dialogue. Peace………….

        • Thanks Kathleen. I agree with much of what you said. I am still wondering how Daenon would respond to my comment and question though.

          I think open and real honest dialogue is the way to understanding each other better as Christians with opposing views.

          • I agree. I think, to be really honest, my problem is, that having tried for 50+ years to have a dialogue, too many times one gets shot down with the usual comments, ending with something akin to “Your mother wears army boots”. That will be lost on a lot of people because I just really dated myself. Anyway, instead of dialogue it ends up being a besting battle. Who can one up the other. In the end I believe that just entrenches people in where they are at and not stretching themselves. Not sure I explaining myself well but that is where I am at. As someone who used (she got overwhelmed these past few months) to be Suzy Sunshine, much to my family’s dismay, I keep hoping that someone will surprise me. I do believe in dialogue but I am trying to be realistic and when I start getting the usual responses I will quit. I think everyone has the right to their opinion, not their facts, we all have the same facts, that is what drives me crazy. I think I have said before that I would die for their right to believe what they will but my problem is that I sense they do not feel the same way. They insist on demanding I accept their truths or I am damned. It is really hard to dialogue with someone who doesn’t know me but is already condemning me to hell. Sorry didn’t mean to preach or rant. Must be Sunday. Peace………..

            • Hey Kathleen. It’s perfectly fine. We probably won’t or can’t change someone’s mind or heart because that is God’s job– we can by example and with our best efforts And through the Spirit’s help change how we are and how we speak or behave towards others– through God’s grace this longsuffering/ tolerance thing is not easy under the pressures of rejection and hostility eh?

              Peace to you as well !

              • Dear Christopher, Kathleen, Steve, Gloriamarie, and Kathy,
                Whew! That was a long thread to read through and keep track of, but, not only do I agree with you all wholeheartedly, I admire your tone. I love you guys. Oh, one thing that I also wanted to mention, Kathleen, “your mother wears Army boots”. I keep trying to tell you we’re not that far apart!
                And, Steve, I appreciate that you went to bat for John – I love him. I hope that what you meant, though, was “anyone that attacks John”, since there are times that I may disagree with some of the things he says, but that doesn’t mean that I would ever attack or disrespect or demean him.

                And Daenon, I agree with you when you wrote, ” I will point out that 95% of what’s written here are ad-hominem attacks with fancy words to make your argument more appealing”. There is far too much of that around here. I must say, however, isn’t that exactly what you were doing with the snarky comments like “leftist tactics”, fancy words “ad-hominem” (you’re correct, but Latin is hardly in common use), a sarcastic “how’s that for tolerance?”. I don’t disagree with some of the main points you started out with, but you lost me with the attacks.

                • Dear Edward M.,

                  You wrote “And Daenon, I agree with you when you wrote, ” I will point out that 95% of what’s written here are ad-hominem attacks with fancy words to make your argument more appealing”. There is far too much of that around here. I must say, however, isn’t that exactly what you were doing with the snarky comments like “leftist tactics”, fancy words “ad-hominem” (you’re correct, but Latin is hardly in common use), a sarcastic “how’s that for tolerance?”. I don’t disagree with some of the main points you started out with, but you lost me with the attacks.”

                  I understood Daenon to be attacking John P. In that context all of the remarks made sense.

  34. I’ve sat here waisting 3 minutes thinking about America, Disney, Chick Fil A, President Donald Trump and the Church. Good coffee topics for wife and I. It’s weird how in one single inaugural day on Jan 20, 2017 the entire liberal movement & agenda was blown over like a house of cards and reduced to paid protesters and angry bloggers. Maybe Disney will triple in revenue like Chick Fil A after our boycott. Probably not.

    • The move to portray Le Fou as gay, in my opinion anyway, was a way to deflect criticism from the left when they don’t make Elsa a lesbian in the Frozen sequel. There is a campaign to “give Elsa a girlfriend,” but Disney isn’t stupid. They’re well aware that if they made Elsa gay, they would see a real financial impact on the movie and its associated product line. This way they can show solidarity with the LBGT community without damaging one of their most reliable cash cows. Beauty and the Beast will still be successful, despite the hit it will take from the boycott, but it doesn’t have anywhere near the merchandise and advertising tie-ins that Frozen does. It is a smart business move. There’s a reason Disney is as successful as it is.

    • Hi Jeff. We are an army. Nothing has been blown away. We are kind of like geology. All it takes is time and pressure—and something Obama did not have—a liberal news media that is angry at Trump for marginalizing them with lies. The liberal news media, which is almost all of the news media, is dedicated to taking Trump down—either impeachment or voluntary resignation is where this is headed. Right now, the republicans in Congress see Trump as a fool they can control and dupe into signing off on their Congressional agenda. When they see that he no longer serves their purposes, they will side with the Democrats and get rid of him so Pence can be President. When Pence gets in there, we will return to the same old, same old. You know:

      “Damn you North Korea for firing those missiles!!! I shake my fist in the air at you!!! If you do this again, I will shake my fist in the air harder next time.” That’ll show you.”


      • *falls over laughing* Liberal media?

        Really? Charles, if there was a liberal media Trump wouldn’t have gotten 2 billion dollars worth of free advertising during the campaign because every time he uttered the dumbest craziest thing, which was all the time, the media was there lapping it up like people lost in the desert dying of thirst who just spotted the mirage of an oasis.

        Nor would the media have regurgitated all the bullshit lies that Trump and the GOP spouted about Hillary.

        The conservative definition of “liberal bias in the media” is this: If the media isn’t 100% kissing the arse of the GOP then it has a liberal bias.

      • “The liberal news media, which is almost all of the news media, is dedicated to taking Trump down—either impeachment or voluntary resignation is where this is headed.”

        And you don’t even appear to realize how WRONG this is. It should be a Free Press’s obligation to inform the populace so we can make the proper decisions. In the case you so beautifully describe, they have stolen that right away from the citizenry and replaced the public Will with that of a few un-elected elites.

        Please, please, please … try to imagine 90% of the media attempting to crucify President Obama back in his first 100 Days to understand why we shouldn’t let them do it now. Inform us – Yes.

        Buy the rope, create the noose and throw it over the tree – NO!

        The Congress, not the Media, is a more representative body of America. Let Congress do its job. Yeah, I know they are the GOP too … but why is that? They won elections … which is how our government works – people casting votes.

        The alternative, Charles, is obvious. A significant segment of the population stops listening to the major media outlets and falls prey to even less credible ‘news’ sources because they KNOW the mainstream media has an egregious bias.

        A lynch-mob media helps no one, not really.

  35. I found these priceless pearls in a my morning devotional,

    “Every good relationship between two or more people, whether it is friendship, marriage, or community, creates space where strangers can enter and become friends. Good relationships are hospitable. When we enter into a home and feel warmly welcomed, we will soon realise that the love among those who live in that home is what makes that welcome possible.

    When there is conflict in the home, the guest is soon forced to choose sides. “Are you for him or for her?” “Do you agree with them or with us?” “Do you like him more than you do me?” These questions prevent true hospitality – that is, an opportunity for the stranger to feel safe and discover his or her own gifts. Hospitality is more than an expression of love for the guest. It is also and foremost an expression of love between the hosts.”

    — Henri Nouwen

  36. I always find it interesting how things look so different when you stand on opposite sides. I respect that this is your worldview of things but I myself don’t understand it. I am a bible believing Christian, who values all people, my liberties in this country and the rights I have to make choices for my family. You have pointedly accused Christians of many things here. I have a question for you in that, do you know why we conservatives voted for Trump? Have you at all considered it? Not asking that it would change your mind but maybe that it would help you and others understand why we didn’t see things your way. For me my vote wasn’t for Trump as much as it was against Clinton. There are many things I hold dear in my little piece of the world, my family, my religious freedoms, my ability to choose how myself and my family will serve other practically and financially, are among those. The road that Obama took us down and Clinton would follow at an even higher rate has and would continue to chip away at how I view my world. Does that mean I don’t think everyone should have equal right, no it doesn’t, but it does mean that I don’t think any people group should have special treatment. Every citizen of our country should be allowed the same liberties and rights. Why should one group of people’s rights take away another group of people rights? That is exactly what has been happening to conservative Christians. If you have a more liberal bend and live your life differently than me why does that have to be shoved in my face and me made to accepted it and embrace it? I am happy to let others live their life and I think in our country for the most part that is happening, I am just not ok with me being required to join in on things I find direct opposite of the values I hold.
    Now in regards to Disney and what they put out in the big screen. I don’t think that a child’s movie is the right place to be having a grown person figure out their sexual orientation, desires and attractions that goes for heterosexuals too. Children shouldn’t understand sexual things, they are not equip for that, it is confusing for them even if it is a heterosexual situation. We as a population have sexualized our society so much that we are no long protecting children but we are inflicting it upon them. So us conservatives have no other choice than to avoid these things and spread the word. Disney has always been about being a kid, well until now, now they are about a agenda. Very sad.
    I know some of you will feel the need to attack me I accepted that the moment I posted this. I just hope this helps you to understand why I and so many others have these views.

    • Melanie, a couple of phrases give you away and show that you do not have any concept of the discussion here.

      You state: “Does that mean I don’t think everyone should have equal right, no it doesn’t, but it does mean that I don’t think any people group should have special treatment. Every citizen of our country should be allowed the same liberties and rights. Why should one group of people’s rights take away another group of people rights?”

      We ARE talking about equal rights and not special treatment. The right to live as ones authentic self, based on sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. is no different than you wanting to live your life as a heterosexual woman.
      You state: “I am happy to let others live their life and I think in our country for the most part that is happening, I am just not ok with me being required to join in on things I find direct opposite of the values I hold.”

      No one, I repeat, no one has required you to “join in” on anything. You are free to observe your faith as you see fit, as long as doing so does not interfere with others doing the same, even if they profess no faith. None of us can inflict our faith beliefs on others. Allowing someone to just live their life is not inflicting anything on you and it isn’t requiring your to “join in.”

      If one follows some of the more hard line interpretation of Scripture, you would not even be allowed to post here, just because you are a woman. Do I support that? No way. I support your rights, but you do not support my rights as an LGBTQ follower of Jesus Christ. Living my life is not shoving it in your face. So try looking at this from a perspective different from your own. Remember, one of your children or grandchildren might turn out to be LGBTQ….will you say the same things to that child that you post here?

      • As I was mulling over an answer, you came along and gave the best answer, I would add that she needs to ask herself the same questions that she asked all of us. No one here that agrees with JP has ever said that she should not believe, worship, think, any other way than what she does. The difference is I think that we don’t believe laws should be made based on her religion or any other. When you are in the public square, all peoples should be welcomed. One can’t shove them in the corner, like out of sight, out of mind. Peace………..

        • Nobody is asking for laws to be based on any certain religion. We just don’t want laws that would be against our religion. If I am not free to believe and live out my faith that would be against. If I am not allowed to run my business or household without fear of being jailed or losing everything those laws are against my religion. We have a constitutional right to freely practice our religion. That means I get to decide how I run my business and my household. No law should change that.

          • All I can say to you is that once you step into the public square, all people are created equal. I have gay family members, I also have mixed race families, and I don’t want them to ever feel less than in the public square. There are people who believe that it is a mortal sin for people of different races to marry. They can believe that, but once they step into the public square, they can’t act on that. If there was a way to make sure that people who run business’s who want to discriminate could not receive any tax or other benefits from the public perhaps that would be different. They would also have to publicize their, in my opinion, bigoted views. But we don’t make our laws for any one religion so one cannot descriminate in the public square. If we allow that we allow white’s only, and all manner of ugly things. Anyway that’s how I feel, I recognize you won’t agree, so………..Peace………….

          • well melanie, since it is against the law for any business to refuse to serve someone because that someone is Christian then would you like to try explaining why Christians should be both protected by the law on one hand and allowed to violate the same exact law on the other hand?

            And you aren’t going to be jailed for how you run your household or your business, child. So knock off the histrionics.

            But when you open a business you agree to abide by the laws that apply to said business. One of those laws are open accommodation laws.

            If you don’t like having to obey the law, melanie, then don’t open the business.

          • Melanie! Sorry- but in America we continue to move towards non-discrimination. For everybody. And that pretty much means your religion does not get to allow you to discriminate against ANYONE if your business is supposed to cater to the public at large. Why? Because homosexuals are just as much a part of THE PUBLIC as anybody else in our country. It’s just that your religion HAS been discriminating against homosexuals for centuries- and our secular laws changed even though religionists didn’t want them to. The tide has swung. Too bad. For you. You have a business that caters to the public? That’s ALL of the public. YOU don’t get to pick and choose what public you will serve in your business.

            You think it’s 3.8% of the public? YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. We not/heterosexuals are everywhere- and there are so many bisexual men hiding in relationships with women that- well- gosh golly gee- if you could see them all you’d faint- dead away. That’s the day I hoping for. And trust me- I know they’re there because I’ve been getting to know them “biblically” for well- more than 50 years!

      • Bruce, I grew up in Los Angeles surrounded by my extended family which includes an aunt who is a lesbian and a cousin who is a gay man, I love them both dearly. They both have had relationship for most of my life, I love their significant others also. They have not been activists, they have not been any of the negative stereotypes one may suggest about homosexuals, they have just been people living their life with the person they love. They have never insisted that anyone recognize their relationship in any certain way and they have choose to not frequent places that may not treat them with the respect that any person should recieve. They also haven’t gone to any business, religious organization, club or church and demand that those people compromise their values to appease them. We are a country of mix origin, culture, religion and worldview points. When Christians are forced to compromise their values that is not equal rights that is special rights for the group of people forcing it on others.

        In regards to shoving in our face the LGBT community represents what is said to be less than 5% (3.8% to be exact) of our adult population yet if you would merely watch tv/ movies, pay attention to media outlets and read liberal minded papers you would understand that the representations make it seem much higher. If you as LGBTQ is wanting to just live your life you wouldn’t support the agenda that wants to infultrate every aspect of every citizens life. That isn’t equal rights that is special rights. If you support shutting down a Christian business because they want to live out their Christian values that is not equal rights that is special rights.

        Additionally woman of the Bible were given great authority in many situations. The view that men rule over woman is not a mainstream conservative view it is an extreme view. I am not part of some strict religious group, I am a follow of Jesus Christ, which does my best daily to live a life pleasing to him. You are free to live your relationship with Jesus how ever you feel best, only you are accountable to God for your life, just as I.

        • Melanie, no one is forcing you to do anything. If there is a television show you don’t want to watch, change the channel or turn off the TV. Don’t go to movies that are at odds with your faith as you perceive it. You speak of others who you knew to be LGBTQ and how they haven’t “forced” themselves on others. You seem to forget that LGBTQ folks, particularly of a certain age, lived in fear of being discovered. In many cases, being out could cost a job, an apartment, or any number of a myriad of rights and privileges you take for granted as a non-LGBTQ person. Quite frankly the way I “hear” you is the same way I used to hear other white folks justify discrimination based on race. They would say such absurd things as “well I have Black friends” as if that could excuse their attitude towards those of a different culture.

          If you own a business and hold yourself out as serving the public, you cannot use your religious beliefs to discriminate against others. I’m old enough to remember that garbage line when it was used to refuse service to Black people. You either serve all who come to you or you shut down if you can’t do that. The only exception is “no shirt, no shoes, no service” and that is because of health code issues. You would have a proverbial cow if I opened up a very nice restaurant in your neighborhood and after building up a clientele decided I didn’t want to serve anyone who was not LGBTQ or who was white. If I tried that and used my religious beliefs to back it up, not only should I catch hell but I should be shut down. Discrimination and bigotry are the same no matter how nicely you try and dress it up with a bunch of fancy words to justify engaging in them.

          I too am a born from above by water and the Holy Spirit follower of Jesus Christ. What baffles me is how little of what Jesus actually taught gets taught today. Jesus was radical in his welcome of the marginalized and outcast. He had little patience for those who tried to use religion as a club to make people behave or believe a certain way. He had even less patience with the Scribes and Pharisees who twisted the “law” in order to put people down.
          My sincere belief is that when I stand before the One who created me, I will be asked only how well I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick and imprisoned, and watered the thirsty. Our petty games and squabbles are not likely to be brought up. God as made it clear and Jesus reinforced it: Love God (with all your heart and soul and mind and strength) and love your neighbor as you love yourself. I’ve witnessed literally thousands of people attempt to put exceptions on those two commandments in order to justify their own behavior. There are no exceptions. It is very clear….and sometimes it is very difficult.

          Use whatever excuses you want to justify behavior, that’s with you. But don’t expect some of us to buy in to them. More importantly however is what you teach and demonstrate to your children and grandchildren about love. Will that be something you will be proud of when you stand before your Maker?

          • Bruce, you did so much better than I. I agree with every word you said. I also have to admit that when I read Melanie’s comments the first thought that popped into my head was, “I have black friends.” Thank you, just wanted you to know you are appreciated. Peace……..

        • Melanie, TV studios are businesses that recognize the LGBT community has disposable income, and they are a targeted audience for marketing. It makes perfect business sense they are being included more and more within entertainment. Maybe it is only 5%, but that 5% obviously means something or the financial investment would not be made. If the hetero/non-hetero ratio were reversed, don’t expect the studios wouldn’t pursue what is best for their bottom line.

    • I won’t attack you Michelle, but one observation I have is that Disney has been introducing gay characters and social issues in their animation for a long time. Many writers have used the written word to teach us about social issues in subtle and powerful story telling ways such as: To Kill a Mockingbird, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, Night and so on.

      Art is about more than beauty it is also a medium which sends a message and teaches us about human nature our foibles and goodness as well as stories of redemption and God. In my opinion this is what John Pavlovitz is trying to do as well but not so subtlety.

      In addition you may not realize it, but a conservative is by definition someone who wants to maintain the status quo at any given time and a liberal wants to challenge the things which are broken or harmful in the traditions we hold. Both perspectives can work together to solve the problems we have as a society.

      My question to you would be– do you have any liberal thinking friends? We are not so different from you. We want the same things peace, security, happiness…

    • Melanie. I would like to attack you, but I have better things to do right now than mess with than burn another fundie tree stump to a crisp. I feel sorry for you that you have to submit to fundie religion so you can feel exclusive and that you are better than everyone else. I caught you doing the “code word” thing with “Christian.” None of the regulars here subscribe to the notion that Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals are the only “true” Christians and all other people who claim to be Christians are apostates who are going to Hell. Who appointed you to be God?

      Feel free to visit my blog and look at yourself in its mirror:

      Also, being that you are a died-in-the-wool fundie, I would like you to answer a question for me:

      “Why do you fundies and your allies on the religious right tell so many lies about so many things to the American public.”

      One fundie said:

      “Lies. So what. Everybody lies.”

      That is not what the Bible says.

    • Melanie, while I credit you with sincerity, are you now really still pleased you voted as you did, given the debacle that has become DC?

      When people tell me they voted for Trump because they were voting against Hillary, my question back to you is this, and I mean it sincerely, do you really think voting for a party of authoritarians, bigots, fascists, gaslighters, gynophobe, homophobe, isolationists, liars, misogynists, racists, rapists, sexual assaulters and molesters, transgenderphobic, white supremacists, and xenophobes were really the better choice?

      Who refuse to enact sensible gun control even though the biggest threat to US lives are white supremacists?

      Who want to do away with the Environmental Protection Agency, Clean Car Laws and all regulations that protest our environment and prevent the planet from going past the point of no return?

      Who gerrymander in such a way that minorites are not allowed to vote?

      Where Russia is getting away with interfering with our election process?

      Who will do away with Head Start and free school lunch programs?

      Who will gamble away Social Security and Medicare on the stock exchange?

      Who will throw away the ACA without replacing it with something just as good?

      Who won’t show hospitality to strangers?

      Who won’t help the poor?

      Who won’t care for the sick?

      Who won’t clothe the naked?

      Who won’t for those at the moment are unable to provide for themselves?

      Who don’t love neighbors?

      Who worship the god of an idolatry, such as money?

      Who would take away the rights of all who are not rich, straight, white men?

      This is a country of religious pluralism, according to the First Amendment.

      You voted against the person who is probably more qualified than many people who have run for this office because you did not take into account the greater good, as Jesus commands us to.

      • Gloriamarie, Very good and before someone attacks you, saying it is just your opinion that those people are white supremacist, etc, I would invite them to do the homework required, check out the tapes, they say it themselves. I did, and there is proof. Look, check different sites, perhaps you might have seen things differently, just saying. Peace…………..

        • Kathleen, if they attack me, I will ignore them. Evidence is evidence, facts are facts, truth is truth.

          Not a single member of the GOP spoke against any of the white supremacists endorsing the one who shall not be named.

          The GOP is steadfast against sensible gun control laws despite the number if white supremacists killing US citizens.

          There has been not a word of condemnation for the white supremacist attacks on Jews, etc.

          If people choose to be gaslighted, if people choose to believe fake news, if people chose to be lied to, because all the lies suport their worldview, then they will simply be confronted with the logical consequences of their choices.

          Of course, those of us who are innocent of voting for evil are also going to suffer the catastrophic results of their choice to vote for evil.

    • To quote Melanie: Does that mean I don’t think everyone should have equal right, no it doesn’t, but it does mean that I don’t think any people group should have special treatment. Every citizen of our country should be allowed the same liberties and rights. Why should one group of people’s rights take away another group of people rights?

      And yet, Melanie, you are asking for special rights. You are asking that your businesses be allowed to refuse service to people because they’re gay but no business in this country is allowed to refuse service to you because you’re a woman or because you’re Christian.

      And your side thinks your rights to your religious beliefs means you get to ban same sex marriage. Or did it not occur to you that your sides precious bans on gay marriage was taking away people’s rights? Curious how your side wasn’t concerned about religious freedom then. Curious how your side routinely thinks it has the right to force everyone in the country to obey your religious beliefs using the government. And the gay marriage bans aren’t the only examples of that.

      So its time, little conservative, that you stop pretending that you conservatives are oh so victimized. You’re not. You’re not even close to being victimized. Your “Woe! We Conservatives are so oppressed” is nothing but the fakest false martyr complex in the country.

      you aren’t complaining because you’re being treated lesser than gays, Melanie. You’re complaining because you’re being treated exactly the same as gays.

      The fact that you and your side have had no problem with the law forbidding businesses from refusing to serve people because they’re Christian proves that.

      You are a clear cut case of “those who have lived their lives safely ensconced in privilege will come to view treating others as equals as if they are being oppressed.”

      • Melanie, since those two “Christian” bakeries are open in Oregon and Colorado lets look at the open accommodation laws from those two states. Tell me where gays are being given special status over conservative Christians: (Oh and I will put in bold the words I want you to pay special attention to)

        Oregon: Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, all persons within the jurisdiction of this state are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities and privileges of any place of public accommodation, without any distinction, discrimination or restriction on account of race, color, RELIGION, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is of age, as described in this section, or older. –From:

        Colorado: Places of public accommodation include a restaurant, hospital, hotel, retail store and public transportation, among others.

        Prohibited discriminatory practices in places of public accommodation must be based on certain protected classes and include these adverse actions: denial of service, terms and conditions, unequal treatment, failure to accommodate and retaliation.

        Protected classes for places of public accommodation are: Race, Color, Disability, SEX,SEXUAL ORIENTATION (including transgender status), National Origin/Ancestry, CREED, Marital Status and Retaliation

        Now explain where gays are being given special rights over Christians.

      • Melanie, I propose a compromise.

        You and your fellow conservative Christians can refuse to serve gays in your businesses… soon as you surrender your legal protections that prevent businesses from refusing to serve you because you’re Christian. Consider it an application of Jesus’ commandment to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourselves.

        And you can live your lives according to your beliefs..just as soon as you and yours stop thinking you have some authority to force everyone in the country to obey your religious beliefs under penalty of civil law.

        That means your side will no longer oppose, among other things, abortion, stem cell research the teaching of evolution in public schools, you will no longer protest against Disney or Starbucks or Coca Cola or Pepsi or Target or all the other businesses your side has been, and I’m purposely using this phrase, butthurt about for the last few years.

        And your side will stop demanding that tax money be used for your private religious schools, no more tax money for such things as that preposterous Ken Hamm’s Ark/Creationism bs in Kentucky and you will stop demanding “Prayer be returned to the schools” because prayer was not taken out of the schools…what was taken out was forced prayer.

        And your side will stop trying to legislate its religious beliefs into civil law. Meaning no more bans on gay marriage, no more sticking your noses up people’s crotches while they go to the bathroom, no more legalized discrimination against gays in employment or housing or whatever else and you will remove from office all right wing politicans who get it into their little minds to legislate their religious beliefs into civil law.

        And for the love of will end this BS “We conservative Christians are such martyrs/we’re being so persecuted!” false martyr/victim complex you got going on.

        You can live your lives according to your religious beliefs..just as soon as you leave the rest of us the **** alone. But as long as you conservatives think you get to meddle in our lives then we get meddle in yours.

    • Melanie, I imagine a child will be more confused and intrigued by the talking furniture and accoutrements to the point they won’t notice the ‘man-crush’ going on in this retelling of ‘Beauty and the Beast’.

      If you believe your Middle schoolers don’t have a clue what is going on … they very will might. I suggest you address the issue in a kind and supportive manner.

      High school and above: shouldn’t be a problem.

      Finally, it is a movie. If you don’t like it, don’t go see it. That is the wonders of (near) Free Market Capitalism. If Disney has made a horrible decision, the film will flop and they’ll veer toward ‘safer’ subjects the next time around ~ sad, but true.

      • there are quite the number of conservatives who only love the free market when it works in their favor.

        Just like they only love freedom and religious freedom when it works in their favor.

        Soon as those things are applied to things or groups they don’t like the love of conservatives for those things goes flying out the windows.

        They’re rather like when Frank Burns from MASH said ” “Individuality is fine, as long as we all do it together.”

  37. “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” -Voltaire

    Once you’ve committed to irrationality on one subject, you have opened the door to irrationality on any other subject you choose.
    This is why religion inevitably leads to bad decisions, and often, immoral and unethical behavior.

    Credulity is not a virtue, and can will never truly progress until we recognize this, and begin treating it with the derision and mockery that it so richly deserves, making pariah of those who promote and romanticize it.

  38. I think a great many people forget the love of Christ in their attempts to ‘enforce’ the Bible, and that is most definitely not what we’re called to do. Someone struggling with homosexuality needs our love and support as much as someone struggling with adultery, an addiction to pornography or alcoholism. The idea of protesting an AA meeting, for example, is laughably absurd.

    With that in mind, God has a plan for our lives, and homosexuality, like adultery, pornography or alcoholism, is in no way part of it. We need to be careful that as we seek to love everyone, we don’t end up celebrating their sin by mistake.

    Live by example, bring your friend to the feet of the Lord (preferably, right through the roof!) and let Him take care of the rest! 🙂

    • More “love the sinner, hate the sin” , eh? smh. Homosexuality is not equivalent to your laundry list. My concept of a loving god’s plan for my life is to be happy in my skin as a gay man– which is how I was created — and form loving relationships of all kinds with people, including a consensual homosexual relationship. Nobody who is homosexual needs the kind of ‘love and support’ you’re talking about. Most of us have experienced it, and it’s truly damaging. If you dropped it, there wouldn’t be as much struggle for gay people, I assure you.

    • JMJ, I have a question for you. Since homosexuality has been documented in 2000 other species and nature seems to have quite the fondness for sexual variety, including protandry and protogyny, perhaps it’s time to consider the idea that sexual orientation is not a choice?

      After all..did you choose to be a heterosexual? I certainly didn’’s just what I am.

      So if heterosexuality isn’t a choice then why homosexuality be a choice?

      • to correct that last sentence “So if heterosexuality isn’t a choice then why would homosexuality be a choice?”

        Can you explain that without resorting to some version of “The Bible says so.”?

      • I hear/read the secular arguments and I’m fine with them. I certainly wouldn’t expect someone who is not a Bible-believing Christian to give any credence or pay any heed to what the Bible says. Additionally, the points about nature and animal behavior are valid and understood, and my best answer is, “I definitely don’t know.” I can’t seem to find anything in my Bible regarding homosexual penguins. XD

        As a Bible-believing Christian, however, I’m far more confused by the responses from what seem like other Bible-believing Christians. I’d be very interested in how we square the idea that homosexuality is not simply a sexual sin when both the Old and New Testament plainly say otherwise.

        If you don’t believe in the unerring, infallible Word of God, then that’s the answer and we can agree to disagree, but if you do believe that God has preserved His word and that we can trust it, I’m curious as to why we make the exception, here.

        There are lots of things in our lives that would be more convenient if we chose to simply write them out God’s Word. Greed, pride, every kind of sexual sin, anger – all of these would be easier to hold onto and embrace, but when measured against the Word, we know that we’re called to rise above them, regardless of what feels natural.

        • To quote JMJ: As a Bible-believing Christian, however, I’m far more confused by the responses from what seem like other Bible-believing Christians. I’d be very interested in how we square the idea that homosexuality is not simply a sexual sin when both the Old and New Testament plainly say otherwise.

          Well first off, the Bible doesn’t plainly say what you think it says. Secondly the bible was translated from language to language to language to language and you can’t do a literal word for word translation from one language to another much less do it multiple times.

          To quote JMJ: If you don’t believe in the unerring, infallible Word of God, then that’s the answer and we can agree to disagree, but if you do believe that God has preserved His word and that we can trust it, I’m curious as to why we make the exception, here

          See that’s the difference between you and me. I assume you’re a evangelical Protestant. I’m Catholic. So lets just assume I’m right about you being an evangelical Protestant. We Catholics don’t subscribe to that “The Bible is the literal and inerrant Word of God” bit because my church is the one that decided what was in the Bible and what was not. The BIble was inspired by God yes…but that doesn’t mean it was written by God. Considering the Bible does such things as say slavery is acceptable or that you should, when you conquer other people, kill all the males, all the nonvirgininal women, all the children and take all the virgin females to be your concubines then you might want to figure out that there are parts of the Bible that simply do not apply because 1: they were written by humans with an understanding then that 2: doesn’t apply now.

          Do you eat shellfish? How about pork? If you answer yes then are disobeying God’s “literal and inerrant Word”

          The Bible has been rewritten multiple times to serve various agendas. And if the Bible was the “literal and inerrant Word of God” then there wouldn’t be multiple versions of the Bible. the various Christian denominations can’t even get the Ten Commandments straight.

          Then there is the fact that the laws of the United States don’t answer to the Bible. The US Constitution, not the Bible, is the Supreme Law of the Land. So if you think homosexuality is a sin that’s fine..but that just means you shouldn’t engage in sex with someone of the same gender.

          While you are free to live your own personal life according to your religious beliefs you are not free to demand that everyone else do so. The freedom that protects your rights to believe what religion you do also protects the rest of us from your religion.

          It does not mean you get to force everyone else in the country to obey your religious beliefs under penalty of civil law. Nor does it mean you get to legalize discrimination against those you don’t like because of your religious beliefs. Especially since it’s illegal to discriminate against Christians.

          • To the first half of your response, that’s fine. You don’t believe the Bible in any accessible form can be trusted to tell you the truth. I disagree, and I feel fine doing so (regarding all the do’s and don’t’s in Lev. and Ecc.) because I know the difference between Old Testament Law and the New Testament covenant. My belief cannot/does not dictate/malign yours, and I don’t expect you to agree with me if we’re not coming from the same foundation.

            To the second half of your response, no sane, Bible-believing Christian is expecting/should be asking the government to do much of anything about this issue, one way or the other. We already have a system in place for topics like this, and per the 10th Amendment, we could have/should have left the it up to the individual states.

            I’m sure that the people, left to their own varying degrees of tolerance and enlightenment, would have happily accepted gay marriage in all 50 states, but making it a legal mandate nationwide by the Supreme Court is just as unconstitutional as mandating it illegal nationwide by the Church.

            • Well, JMJ, your opposition to homosexuality based on the Bible is straight out of the Old Testament.

              Secondly, your fellow conservatives were legislating their religious beliefs into civil law by banning gay marriage. You know..violating the establishment clause.

              Thirdly shouldn’t have been left up to the states. For the reasons I just explained in the second paragraph I just wrote and for the same exact reason that the interracial marriage bans weren’t allowed to stand.

              They were violations of the US Constitution’s 14th amendment. The 10th amendment doesn’t give the states permission to ignore/violate the 1st or 14th amendments. The US Supreme Court had exactly the same authority to strike down the bans on gay marriage that they had to strike down the bans on Jim Crow and interracial marriage.

              You really want to try arguing that a gay couple getting married in Minnesota shouldn’t be considered married in Alabama if they move there? Ever hear about the 14th amendment’s equal protection clause?

              How about Article 4’s full faith and credit clause? You heard about that?

              To quote: To quote: I’m sure that the people, left to their own varying degrees of tolerance and enlightenment, would have happily accepted gay marriage in all 50 states, but making it a legal mandate nationwide by the Supreme Court is just as unconstitutional as mandating it illegal nationwide by the Church.

              And how many years would you leave gays as second class citizens with lesser rights until that “enlightenment” struck all the states? Because quite a large part of the south still hasn’t gotten it through its head that the civil war is over and that Jim Crow is dead buried and gone?

              Sorry, JMJ, you do not get to deprive gays of their equality just because you and yours want to stay stuck in the past. The rights of your fellow Americans don’t depend on your approval. You don’t get to vote on whether or not they have the same rights as you. Sorry, to be don’t get to enact a new version of Jim Crow.

              Your 10th amendment argument was also rendered null and void when in response to Massachusett’s legalizing gay marriage nearly 15 years ago your side in this debate promptly ran to the federal government to block it.

              So you can knock off that hypocritical double standard, JMJ.

              • so, JMJ, slavery is acceptable to you?

                You should punish people for wearing clothes of mixed thread types? Should my father have been punished for planting two different crops side by side? Should a woman be confined to her house when she is on her period? Should men be forbidden from shaving their beards?

                Those are all things, JMJ, that exist in the same Old Testament that you conservatives get your opposition to homosexuality from. Some of them are even from the same exact book of the Old Testament.

                If you believe that the Bible is the literal and inerrant Word of God, JMJ, that means you don’t get to cherry pick which parts of it you obey and agree with.

                WHen you say the Bible is the literal and inerrant Word of God that means you obey all of it.

                If you think you can claim the Bible is the literal and inerrant Word of God while cherry picking which parts of it to obey and which parts to disobey, JMJ, you are a hypocrite.

                So which will it be?

                To quote: Bible-believing Christian is expecting/should be asking the government to do much of anything about this issue, one way or the other.

                Well then, JMJ, you are saying that you and your fellow conservatives are not sane. Because y’all want the government to do something about this want the government to ban gay marriage.

                So which is it? Sorry, you don’t get to argue it both ways here.

              • Unfortunately, there are far too many straw men and far too many assumptions in the way of any sort of meaningful dialogue. Good luck, everyone!

                • Here, ill make it simple for you.

                  By banning gay marriage your side legislated its religious beliefs and forced everyone to obey those religious beliefs under penalty of civil law. Which is a violation of the 1st amendment.

                  The 10th amendment no more gives the states the right to ban gay marriage than it gave states the right to ban interracial marriage.
                  The 14th amendment’s equal protection clause means that every americans has the same rights.

                  Article 4 means that if a couple gets married in one state that marriage is recognized as valid in all other states. That your side ran to the federal government to block Massachusetts’s from legalizing gay marriage 13 years ago means that your argument of “10th amendment” is a double standard.

                  Your religious beliefs on the subject of gay marriage entitles you to one thing: The right to not marry someone of the same sex as you. It does not entitle you to decide whether or not other people can marry someone of the same gender.

                  The rights of your fellow Americans do not depend on the approval of your religious beliefs.

                  There, that simple enough for you?

                • Someone else laid everything out in very simple terms for you. But I wanted to make something very clear to you and hope you grasp the concept: My life, the lives of LGBTQ children of God are not “strawmen.” The issues raised are very real. I work with homeless teens and youth and roughly 40% of those who get kicked out of the house when they told parents they were gay were kicked out because of the religious beliefs of their parents. Maybe we should reverse Leviticus: Let the children stone to death parents who do not show unconditional love to the fruit of their loins. Do you get this? It isn’t a straw man. It is life for a particular group of the children of God. If I sound a bit pissed…..there is a reason!

                  • Jmj, these are peoples lives you are reducing to “strawmen”

                    These are peoples lives being harmed when you say things like, and I am paraphrasing, “I’m sure that people would eventually let gays marry so the USSC shouldnt have intervened”

                    Your position is the same as those who argue”Jim Crow would have eventually ended on its own”

                    Perhaps. But in the meantime people were suffering, people were still treated as second class with lesser rights.

                    Since when should Person A’s rights depend on Person B’s approval? How does that not diminish Person A?

                    A friend , when he was nearly 18, had his entire family, save his brother, disown him because he was gay. His family somehow managed to convince themselves that the Christian to do…the moral thing to do…was to throw him out and treat him as if he no longer existed.

                    That was when I,all of 24 at the time, realized how much what your side preaches about gays, is thoroughly harmful and immoral. Because I could not understand how anyone could betray their own kin like that.

                    As i said to someone else here I come from a very large family. Now that means there are members of my family I’m not close to. And some I disagree with..especially politically. But one thing my family teaches above all is that family comes first. And that if anyone messes with one member of my family then they are messing with all my family.

                    So let me ask you what I asked someone else earlier.

                    Why in God’s name would I let you or anyone else treat any member of my family, or my friends, as lesser than because they are gay? Why would I let you deprive them of their rights and equality because of your religious beliefs? Why would I let you say you have the right to deny them the same rights that you and I have just because that equality offends your religious sensibilities?

                    • That, sir, is perfect. I love what you said and I totally agree with it, and since everyone is part of God’s family, which is my family, we need to protect all. Peace…………………….

                • The writers of Scripture had essentially no experience with same gender sexuality that was based on love and mutuality and care. The only model they had was based on a pattern where one male was more dominant over the other. There was a power differential such as master and slave, conqueror and conquered, and older man and younger man. There was no mutuality to the relationship. Keep in mind that even the term “homosexual” was not coined until the early 1900’s.
                  The references in the Hebrew Scriptures to same gender sexual relationships were part of the Levitical Purity Code. It existed primarily to promote ritual purity for men to enter the temple and worship. That same code prohibited the eating of shellfish and pork, touching a corpse, etc. It required women to squat on straw during their monthly period. The list of prohibitions is long…even includes stoning to death disobedient children!
                  The references in the Christian Testament are generally attributed to Paul. If you keep these references in the context of their larger narratives, they refer to various forms of idolatry or anything that gets put ahead of God in our lives and worship. All of these references are a part of a list of issues Paul claimed to be addressing. He was also writing to individual churches about their unique problems of trying to survive in a hostile environment. FYI, the most direct interpretation of “abomination” simply means to make to want to throw up. It isn’t addressed as being a sin.
                  Keep in mind that all of Scripture is from the perspective of writers in a time thousands of years ago. We have more knowledge now of human relationships, the relationship of the Earth to the rest of our solar system and the universe, and how the human psyche actually works. We know that disease is caused by viruses and bacteria and not demonic possession.
                  The sin in relationships comes into play if the relationship is coercive, abusive or exploitive. Any relationship that has such elements is wrong and sinful, even if in the context of marriage and regardless of the gender of the two parties.
                  Actually reading the Bible helps with understanding context. There are many passages that will curl your hair with their violence and the relationships they represent. It’s also important to remember that there are no hierarchies of sin….none rank above or below others. The only unforgiveable sin is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
                  I hope this gives you something to think further about and do some research. Our Scripture is a collection of 66 individual books voted upon during a council of Nicaea during the early centuries of the church before there was division between east and west. Some books got voted in and some did not. The 66 we have made the cut. There were also elements of politics, even in the church. Some of the books that did not make the cut are preserved for us in the Apocrypha…..usually placed between the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Testament.

    • Dude, how many times do you have to be told that a) sexual orientation is not a choice and b) that it is a false and dangerous comparison when you equate sexual orientation with alcoholism, drug addiction or other addictions? People do have sexually related addictions, but that is true regardless of sexual orientation. You are spreading lies that cause people to try and commit suicide rather than fit your neatly designed and inflexible view of Scripture and faith. I’m gay. God doesn’t have an issue with that. Jesus Christ is my savior. No issue there either. I have direct evidence via the Holy Spirit that has made that clear to me. And no I will not share that very personal experience so that a bunch of insecure, self-righteous, none the less children of God can throw rocks and arrows at my faith. It’s called a personal relationship with Jesus Christ for a reason. You do not get to judge its validity. You are certainly young enough to know that what you spout is a lie. I’m old enough to have learned about your lies decades ago.

  39. We in the church are the Pharisees Jesus warned us about. We take such false pride in our “principles”, declare that there is a war against Christmas and find ways to bring pain to innocent people while declaring that we really do love their little hearts. Where is the love our Lord preached? Our hands are unclean and we will be judged.

    I am a life long (age 77) Christian, and luckily I am in a church that preaches Christ and welcomes all into the fellowship.

    • God makes it all so simple~ love, don’t judge, and share. And amen Carol, welcome everyone. There are so many other serious issues in life that folks could spend their energy on , instead of worrying about who someone loves . Not judging frees you.

  40. over promoting gays in our entertainment gives the impression that this is somehow cool or an option. We do not need disney to jump on this bandwagon
    For every action there is a reaction, right? What happens when you push the gay agenda as hard as they are? Will there be more gays in the future? It’s likely, but what’s more likely is that in the future people will have a hard time differentiating between feelings of friendship and love. Our children will be confused sexually, they will likely “experiment” more, and I’m sorry but that’s not the same as being born gay . With an increase in “experimenting” will come in increase in what? STD’s, AIDS and who knows what else.

    • Jodi, homosexuality is not a choice. You do not “choose” to become a homosexual so what in hell are you worried about?

      To quote: STD’s, AIDS and who knows what else.

      Well first off, teens are going to experiment sexually anyways. Secondly you want to know the group with the highest rate of STD’s? Yeah that would be you conservative Christians. You also have the highest rate of teen pregnancies.

      So why should we listen to you?

      you talk about logic, child, but you have none. Because you’re not even dealing with reality at all.

      • Amen, a friend of mine, her daughter went on a Christian dating website, met a guy, they had sex, she got an STD, he was married, sooo I don’t think Disney and Gays or anything else except ignorance got her were she is today. Learned lesson but ended up with a lifetime reminder. I think it would have been better had she had some down to earth advice. Just a though, but Hey, what do I know.

    • and trump is a far bigger actual criminal than you can with any honesty prove Hillary as. Trump is a lying sociopath and one of the biggest conmen in the country. He is the definition of anti Christ.

      To quote: Once the vote was in in Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage, the community wasn’t content with that. They went after the kids, to change the curriculum to embrace gay couples. They want to force the rest of us to accept their lifestyle as normal.

      You know what you conservatives did after the vote in Massachusetts? You promptly ran to the federal government in order to block it. You whine that the gays didn’t want to lead quiet lives..but you conservatives had no intention of letting them do so anyways.

      Sorry, you don’t get to whine that “gays want to force the rest of us to accept their lifestyle as normal.” when your side in this debate wants to force everyone to not accept the “gay lifestyle” as normal.

      As for what the BIble supposedly says about it isn’t as clear as you think. And the laws of the United States don’t answer to the Bible in the first place. This is not a theocracy. If you think you get force people to obey the BIble then kindly move to Pakistan and join the Taliban because that is how you are acting.

      The Supreme Law of the Land, Jodi, is the US Constitution, not the Bible. So take your desire to live in a theocracy and move somewhere else.

      it’s a sad and tragic thing that you think being Christian means you have God’s permission to be an asshole to those you don’t like. That was not the message of Jesus Christ, child, and it is you that should be far more worried about the accounting you’re going to give than any gay person.

      To quote: Sex outside of marriage is sinful.

      And the group that has the highest rate of sex before marriage? Yeah that would be you conservatives once again.

      You are spouting the same bullshit, Jodi, that was used to oppose interracial marriage. You are using the same words. What do you think that does for your morality?

    • Speaking as an old woman, for whom Christ is my everything, I have to laugh at the expression, “Gay Agenda”. There is none, other than the right to exist and breathe free. If you are not homosexual, then spend more time examining any “heterosexual agenda” as you might know a bit more about that. It’s everywhere! What are you watching on TV? Sex is used to sell, exploit and praise while urging people to spend more, eat more, play more. If there is sin in sex, it belongs to all of us, not just gays. My long term and long suffering husband joined me in taking over 15 children into our home whom we did not produce. Many gay kids were panicked over their sexuality, scorned by birth families; straight kids would think they had to use sex to gain all the things our culture promises the sexy and beautiful. Some of them actually ended up realizing that they were loved by us, a church, a neighborhood and could be themselves I often saw Christ in people who didn’t know His Name but reached out in love. How can you make a faith around an issue you had no hand in deciding? You take for granted your own right to live and love whom you chose, but cannot believe that others might want the same thing. Why should you live in fear if Christ makes us free? Disney is not the enemy. Hatred is.

      Old age means we know we can’t waste time in judging when there is so much love needed in the world.

  41. James Kessler – Yes teenagers will experiment anyways but to add same sex experimentation unnecessarily is even more perverse and the risk of std’s and aids etc is higher. Also why do you think I am a conservative Christian when I said this is not religious? How do you know what I believe in? I could be a Muslim for all you know.

    • again Jennifer, the only reason a teenager will experiment with someone of the same gender is if they are gay or bi.

      You so desperately want to cling to the notion that homosexuality is a choice.

      It’s not. It is no more a choice than heterosexuality is.

      the concept that you can “encourage” gay or “convert someone to being gay” is patently ludicrous.

      And “perverse” is rather a subjective term. For example I find your obsession with other people’s sex lives to be quite perverse. I find your desire to control other people’s sex lives equally perverse.

      And why do I think you’re a Conservative Christian? Gee..could it because you’re using the same inane arguments that they have used?

      now admittedly I could be wrong. You could be a Muslim or whatever. But your religious beliefs only apply to you. You do not have the right to demand that everyone else obey your religious beliefs. And you certainly don’t have the right to legislate them.

      I have, roughly, 300+ paternal and another 100 or so maternal cousins. So statistically some of them are gay.

      Why in God’s name would I let you mess with them, demean them and try to compel them to live according to your beliefs? Why would I let you deny them the same rights that you and I hold? Why would I betray them like that? Why would I allow you to treat them as lesser than?

      As for your claim about them having higher std probably should figure out that in statistics the smaller the population the easier it is to affect the rate of something within that population.

      You sitting there telling gays “Homosexuality is bad” is not going to magically make them heterosexual any more than telling a black person that “being black is bad” is going to magically turn them white.

      • Forgot to add this part to what I wrote.

        “Jen, it doesn’t matter if only 1.8% of males are gay and only 1.5% of females are lesbian. They are still Americans and are still entitled to the same equal rights.

        And the reason that commercials, shows, cinema and such don’t have a problem with gay characters now is because by and large the majority of Americans don’t have a problem with gays.”

        Just because conservatives want to once again stand stride the flow of time and yell “Stop!” or reverse it so they can go back to their Leave it to Beaver trip back to the 1950’s does not mean the rest of us have to go along with it.

  42. I could be atheist for all you know, what I believe is irrelevant. According to the Washinton Post only 1.8% males are gay and only 1.5% women are lesbian. At this rate gays are certainly being over promoted in all sources of media. Commercials, shows, cinema, and now even children’s Disney movies and cartoons. There is a time and a place for everything. I do not feel that it is appropriate for such a controversial topic to be forced in our kids.

    • Then I think you should keep your children or grandchildren from seeing it, please don’t presume you know what is good for mine. My take was that this was not about the boycott per se but about the hypocrisy of supporting this administration, which you can’t get around is full of liars and other not so appealing things and then worry about a character in a Disney movie. I wonder if people realize that these self same children will someday ask them, “What the hell were you thinking”. Peace…………..

  43. If a child is born gay you deal with it, you accept and love the child anyway. If your child is exposed to a gay relationship you explain it (like the birds and bees), its a private conversation not something that needs to be forced upon our kids by Disney for example.

    • unless Disney is holding a gun to you or your child’s head and forcing you to watch their programming, Jennifer, they are not forcing anything on your kids.

      You ain’t kvetching that they’re “forcing homosexuality on your kids.” You are kvetching “They’re acknowledging homosexuality exists and I don’t want them to because I’d rather live in a bubble where nothing I don’t like exists.”

    • you’re rather like the Holy Rollers in my town that, when the Harry Potter books first made it on to scene in a major way, demanded that the city council and the school district ban the Harry Potter books from the libraries.

      It wasn’t enough that they already had the right to decide what their kids read..they also had to decide what everyone else was allowed to read.

      If you don’t want your kids watching Disney programming because of the choices Disney has made that is fine. That’s perfectly your right as a parent.

      The rest of us will make our own choices without your input, tyvm.

      Here, the book banning ladies in this clip from Field of Dreams is you:

    • Jennifer, why don’t you and Jodi and the rest of the Christian conservatives here go concern yourselves with what Jesus Christ told us Christians to concern ourselves with.

      Poverty, homelessness, lack of adequate food and water, lack of adequate health care.

      Or did you forget what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46?

      31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

      34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

      37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

      40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

      41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

      44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

      45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

      46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

      I would draw your attention, Jennifer, to the fact that nowhere in that list does it say “torment gays.” Considering the GOP is seeking to strip people of their health care, seeking to pollute the air and water, strip the needy of welfare, and seeking to strip average Americans of what little money they have so the GOP can give it to the already rich..why don’t you and Jodi and the other conservatives go after the people that Jesus would really oppose?

      That being your precious Republican party.

      Or is it so much easier to go after gays so you can ignore how much the GOP blatantly disobeys Christ at every turn?

  44. What’s sadly hilarious is that these people who are so upset about “Beauty and the Beast” seem to have no idea that gay artists have been working on Disney films since forever– and all those movies have been just fine with them, as they have with the rest of us.

    Didn’t they even notice that the Sea Witch in “The Little Mermaid” is a thoroughly, classically campy drag queen?

    • I suppose they would have rather that the Nazi’s win WW2. After all, Alan Turing who was instrumental in cracking Germany’s Enigma code was gay.

      And then there is all the art we’d have to get rid of by Leonardo and Michaelangelo and Donatello.

      We’d have to stop teaching about Alexander the Great and Socrates and Plato and Hadrian and Sir Francis Bacon.

      And then there is King James of the King James Bible.

      Yes..the Bible that evangelical Protestants love more than anything else was sponsored by King James of England..of whom was said “Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus”

      Elizabeth was King, now James is Queen.

      And then there is, possibly, David of the Bible.

  45. Pingback: Was Franklin Graham Right to Call for a Disney Boycott? - Telzilla

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  49. How dare Disney put in a gay character into my favorite Disney movie about bestiality, hostage taking, psychological abuse, and Stockholm Syndrome by a sympathetic lead character, the Beast, and an egomaniac narcissistic would-be killer, Gaston.

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  51. It’s not just a religious issue.. it’s secular as well. Many of us don’t want to see gay propaganda shit.. especially in kids movies.

    • First of all it is not propaganda. Much of it is the real lives of real people who exist all around you and your kids, whether you like it or not.
      Second, no one makes you or your kids go to any movie that has been made. No one makes you or your kids watch anything on television….the device has an on/off switch and as the adult you can turn it off. I would actually be more concerned about the violence your children see on TV and in the movies rather than anything related to sexual orientation.
      Third, most of us don’t want to see or hear your bigoted, biased, homophobic comments or newscasters. It goes both ways.
      You have the option of helping your kids understand people who may be different from them (or may not since you don’t know the ultimate sexual orientation of your kids) or you can fill them with your ignorant and uninformed hate-filled thoughts and words. The choice is yours, the choice is yours.

      • What a great comment. I am always amazed that some people have no problem with violence but lose their minds over love. It is insane.

        • Right with you, Kathleen! Never understood that , esp . as a parent & someone that has worked with children. Guess as a human, too …

    • To quote: It’s not just a religious issue.. it’s secular as well. Many of us don’t want to see gay propaganda shit

      What propaganda? Being gay isn’t a choice. You can’t “convert” someone into being homosexual.

      So if you want to claim that Disney showing a gay character without burning that character at the stake is propaganda then you agree that every single heterosexual character it shows is also propaganda, right?

      As for whether or not you or your kids see the movie..that is your choice. The problem is, Aaron, that your side thinks you should get to make that choice for everyone. Its not enough for you conservatives to whine and gnash your teeth about something..but you have to dictate to the rest of us.

      Don’t like homosexuality? That’s fine. Just leave homosexuals alone.

    • Aaron- just imagine how disgusted all us not straight people are from having to put up with your secular/religious straight propaganda shit that we’ve been bombarded with every single second of our lives. I’m mean- really. Poor you. You can barely explain hetero human sexuality to your own kids- having to mindlessly call that discussion “the birds and the bees”. What horror to have to explain to your kids that 2 men or 2 women might love each other just like you disgusting perverted straight people do. Damn. Sorry to disrupt your secular/religious comfort zone. Again. And again and again and again.

  52. Pingback: Christians Should Boycott Outrage - Theographa Publications

  53. I don’t usually comment on blogs or anything else but I feel compelled to do so now. I’m from this area. My family and I were visiting a church the week this story broke, and yet again my heart fell at the Christians who felt justified in “standing with” the theater owners (never mind that they had literally just finished showing 50 SHADES not even a couple of weeks before). My son told me that a kid in his Sunday school class said something about “Trump is awesome, and the Muslim ban is good,” and the teacher didn’t say anything. Visit another church, right? That would be great if churches around here existed in any other form, but the search continues to come up empty. We need a church family, my children need a church family, but the search is continuing to prove to be a source of stress, as my husband and I have different beliefs (another topic entirely, so I won’t elaborate). So when I read this line: “But these self-righteous reservoirs are drying up, as the old folks in these communities die out and the building themselves grow dormant, with no new converts to fill them,” I respond with, “Not from my perspective.” I feel terribly alone over here, surrounded by people who claim Christianity but are too hateful or too ignorant to understand what that really means. And these “self-righteous reservoirs” are breeding and creating a new generation of non-thinkers who will only mirror what Mommy and Daddy have taught them. Meanwhile, the discourse in my family grows. I don’t want to give up trying to find a church family, but I’m terribly discouraged within a sea of far rights. Please pray for me and my family.

    • I am deeply sorry over the pain your family is going through. Your story reminds me of an Iranian friend whose 6th grade teacher said Muslims and particularly Iranians are our enemies. You must contact that church and report why you will not be bringing your children to its classes. We were fortunate to find a wonderfully diverse church full of people struggling to live our their faith in a way that lifts up everyone. I will pray that you are led to find a worshiping community even if you have to start your own home church.

  54. Pingback: Beauty and the Brainwashing: Disney’s ‘gay’ agenda

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  57. Pingback: Beauty and the Beast | But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matt 7:14)

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    • You are right Barry. During WWII, Dietrich Bonhoeffer speaking for the opposition church, said that we must separate ourselves from the culture and sometimes from the “religion” if we are to live our our faith. Religion-less and state-less Christianity leads to acts of love and mercy and removes all fear from of those who are different from . It is the hatred and judgment of the world coming out of fear of change that crucified Christ, and we do it again and again in our treatment of others.

  59. John, I have lost count as to how many times I have said out loud, “He’s done it again!” You SO get the pulse of the Christian Reich. When I have called them on their double mindedness toward Trump, they pull out the old, “We are supposed to pray for our leaders”, at which I roll my eyes. They also have become interpreters and tell me what Trump “really” meant by this, that, and the other thing that he has said. One friend has described him as “bad”, but not evil, which makes me shake my head in disbelief. I even have pointedly asked her about his misogyny, philandering, and sexual predation. She has no words, only shrugs her shoulders. These same good Christian folk didn’t practice such forbearance with President Obama. Instead they prayed Psalm 109:8 against him which seems rather benign, but verses 9-20 are a curse. I wish I had the opportunity to form a church with these families which have posted here who have been displaced by the political environment, and by the evangelical community. The only reason I am still holding on is to be an example for my 18 year old daughter until I can find something new. I am looking for a revolutionary church where ALL (even a black woman and her daughter), are welcomed and shown the love of the revolutionary Jesus Christ.

    • You ‘get it’ too, Sunray (e)! Been shaking my head (& worse ) way too often re: the insanity that is 45. I’d join that church with you. 🙂

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