Homophobic Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People…

Angrywoman

Homophobic Christian,

I see how angry you are, how consumed you are, how relentless you are, how myopic you’ve grown, how bitter you’ve become—and it saddens me.

It grieves me deeply to see you doing what you’re doing; what you’ve been doing.

I’m not sure how you ended up thinking that this was somehow your most noble calling or what good you believe you’re accomplishing or exactly what your end game is, but I hope you hear me because I am telling you in respect and with compassion and in love:

You’re wasting daylight here.
You’re squandering precious breaths.
You’re fighting a battle that you can’t win and weren’t asked to win anyway.

Changing someone’s sexual orientation or altering their gender identity is simply not your business.
It’s out of your jurisdiction.
It’s way above your pay grade.
It’s far beyond your control.

And yet Christian, because there is so much that is within your control, here is some unsolicited, but hopefully useful advice for you with whatever precious, fleeting moments you have left on this planet:

Stop spending so much time and energy trying to make gay people “not gay”—it isn’t going to happen.

Instead, try spending that time and energy, making:
hungry people not hungry,
hurting people not hurt,
lonely people not alone,
victimized people not victimized,
invisible people feel seen.
bullied people feel protected.
grieving people feel comforted.

Those things you actually can accomplish and Jesus did explicitly call you to them.
He states that this is his business and so it should be yours.
Love is the language he commands you to speak.

This is how he said he would determine your love for him; not by the signs you hold,
the insults you hurl, the coldness you deliver, the relationships you sever, the protests you mount, the havoc you wreak. 

Just look around you.
Possibility for goodness is everywhere.
It’s right in front of you.
You’ve been given this time and space and your heartbeat all as priceless gifts.
Don’t miss the chance to use them and don’t waste them.

There are hopeless situations that you can step into, blessings you can provide, people you can care for, paths you can beautifully alter, healing you can accomplish, prayers you can answer, wounds you can mend, kindnesses you can extend—right now.

The question is, do you really want any of that or are you married to this ultimately fruitless cause that is doing nothing real but damage?

The clock is ticking.
The sun is fading.
Time is wasting.
People are waiting.

Christian, do something worthy.

443 thoughts on “Homophobic Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People…

    • I am a Christian…..and tired of being misrepresented. You would not catch me on a street picketing against “gay” people. Since we are talking about God, John 3:16 tells us that “God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son…………” That includes everyone. I do not believe that God condones homosexuality in either males or females. However, to say that he hates “Gays” would be a lie, I believe. They are people and need to be respected like anyone else.

      • My God is not sexist or racist. Those are human traits. Therefore, God is not in the business of “condoning” anyone because God loves all creation equally and unconditionally. God is present, but we all get to decide if we’re going to seek God’s love and mercy every day, in every way, or ignore it. We are the ones who condone or decide not to while God patiently waits for us to hear the message of love and acceptance, and to act accordingly. And it is never ever prejudiced, hateful, or bullying. It is simply LOVE, the only commandment Jesus gave us.

        • These homos need to mind their own business and quit with the shaming of everyone else. The shame rests entirely on their shoulders. Most homosexuals just go about their everyday life then you have like this one. Every minute of every day he plays the victim. If he only knew how little we think of them . They need to go on parade to see if someone yells at them.

          • There are many of us “homos” we prefer gay, as homo is most often used as a derogatory insult, who are Christian ourselves. We would like to see other Christians find the true joy of loving all of God’s children as God dose, as Jesus did and as he comanded his fallowers to do. As to love and treat others with love and compassion is truly liborating, and truly brings one closer to God.

            We want that truly liborating and deep conection with God to be something that other Christians csn experience too. We also want to see Christianity that dose not push our other LGBT Christian brothers and sister into dark suffering, into places where they not only harm them selves or take their own lives, but feel that God dose not love them. Ultimately leading to the lose of their faith. So we try to help those Christians that suffer with hate and disgust of other embers of God’s creation, and who do harm to other members of God’s creation freed from those bonds, and in the process free those they harm from the bonds that have been placed on them.

            So we share the message of love that Jesus’s and god have shared with us with our other brother and sisters in faith.

          • Ah yes, if the “homos” would just stay “in their place” and not seek equality and protection from racists and bigots then everything would be ok in your world.

          • Yet, you feel the need to reply to this article meaning you obviously do think of them and even went out of your way to read and comment on this article.

            I am a Christian with homosexual and transgender friends. I’m not worried about it. More and more studies show a biological component to sexual orientation and identity. If it is biological, I figure God had a hand in it.

            For those who are concerned about what the Bible says to do and not do, I would believe that you don’t eat pork or touch a football made of pork skin. I would believe that you don’t eat shellfish or that you don’t work on Sundays.

            If not, then you pick and chose what is convenient to believe in the Bible and feel the need to target certain groups to feel like a superior Christian. I’ll let God decide and I’ll do my best to live my life with love in my heart for all his children. I’ll live my live without judging other as the Bible says.

          • Your an idiot! You need to mind your business, by name shaming, you surely don’t and are part of the problem! Christians act like Homosexuality out weight their sins of judging, gluttony, and being a hypocrite. Sin is Sin. So if you are fat, judging, divorced, cheated on spouse, had premarital sex, guess what you go to the same hell as anyone else. Sin is not measured not matter how you’ve sinned. Why do you think they are thought of less often. Who do you think keeps the hatred going on signalling out gays? You are delusional, for sure!

          • Well I’ll tell you E. Sess- let me see how you feel getting beaten up because you are gay, or not being allowed into the hospital with your dying partner because the family doesnt approve of “the lifestyle”, or getting fired from your job because the boss hates the fags. I am not quite sure where you get the shaming factor as we would just like for the hatred to stop. I have been through all the above and never once thought of myself as a victim as I can only feel sorrow for those that feel they need to unleash their hatred. You are obviously feeling shamed and if so, then quit what you did to deserve it. Jeez!

          • HAHAHAHA “Every minute of every day he plays the victim” really dude. I’ve been gay my whole life and I’ve never ever played the victim card. Who are you to speak for the whole of the LGBTQ community, you know nothing of it so shut your hateful, spiteful mouth. Getting on here and posting such bs is nothing but that, another moment wasted. I live my life, I work, I play, I meet with friends for coffee and dinner, I’m in bed by 10 or 11 at night but I have never EVER played the victim card. Your more of victim of your own stupidity and ignorance than any gay man or woman I’ve ever met and call friend. People like you make this world an uglier place than it needs to be.

        • Yes, Love, that was His command for all of us. It’s a huge and important one…, but not the only one. Also remember, to the woman involved in sexual immorality He said, “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”

      • Sin should not be taken lightly but elevating one sin above another makes the accuser’s sins seem less. That is self serving. All sins are the same in the eyes of God and we are all sinners and just need to accept his Grace. The final judgement will be God’s, not the Church’s. Judging others by the way, also a sin…”let you without sin, cast the first stone”.. We cannot, I believe, as Christians say the Bible is wrong, but also cannot condemn a certain group based on certain cherry picked sins from the scriptures. I believe it is wrong, but who am I to judge someone else…Show them the way to Jesus with a loving heart and God will take care of the rest..

        • I disagree. There are statements in the Bible that ARE wrong, simply because it was written by men (note I do not say people, the Early Catholic Church purged it of everything the women did) who were basically Bronze Age. We now know Jesus did NOT return in Paul’s lifetime. He was wrong. Slavery is wrong. Eating babies is wrong. Yet, the Bible condoned these things because they were culturally normative AT THAT TIME. Deborah was Judge, in charge of the Nation of Israel, so clearly, again, Paul was wrong to say women should not have authority over men. The description of Jesus casting a demon our into a herd of pigs is not a real story. The man sounds like a textbook case of Schizophrenia (yes I am qualified to make that diagnosis), not demonic possession. Throwing it into a herd of unclean animals is metaphorical, just as the Creation Stories, 1 and 2, both in Genesis, both very different are. The Bible is a guide, not an operating manual. It is always meaningful, it is not always literally correct.

          • Interesting comment. Co text of what slave means in the bible isnt our context, slaves is 1st century were high class citizen. So the bible doesnt condone slavery, polygamy or primageniture, all the examples you read will actually show how those thing caused havoc in the family and how God actualy always chose the younger son. Don’t just read what the bibles says also read what it does not say. Intetesting thought. Jesus believed in Genesis that’s why He (God) quotes it. In Mark 10. Talking about God’s original intention with sex and sexuality

          • Here I am months later reading this drivel, and feel compelled to comment. Sorry, but your views are far from Christian, and far from the mind and heart of the one true God.

          • Linda, you are a questioning person. That ,I believe, is excellent. Any God worth anything, would want his followers to question. I have questioned all of my life. I am 75. I followed every order given by my parents and listened to my Mother quote that bible verbatim. Wrong, I would think. That makes no sense. My take away from all of that is to follow the brain I was given when I came here. My brain did not turn out to be Christian because I had seen to many negative actions come from those teachings. Today I follow Buddhist Philosophy because it makes sense to me and it is the philosophy most closely related to nature. I have personally witnessed too much hate and inconsistency from Christianity. Perhaps that is why there are, as I was told by a theologian, approximately 31,000 religious organizations based on that one book. The same church slips and starts another one, thus church on every corner. To me, that is the definition of failure. The Christians have a big challenge is making their religion decent. I err on the side of humanity. It is what it is and I will not questions sexual orientation. I do not have the authority to do and, actually, I have no desire to do that.

          • Dear sister, I think your analysis of the Bible is flawed, and perhaps a bit “I learned this in my Women’s Study class 101.” I can’t think of one instance where God called his people or anyone else, to eat babies.

        • Oh good….I didn’t know that, since I’m not a Christian, I’m allowed to say the bible is wrong. I’ll say it whether it’s “acceptable” or not, but it’s always nice to know that what you’re doing anyways is actually allowed.
          The bible is wrong. Actually, wrong isn’t the way I’d describe it. How about fiction.
          ……and not very good fiction.

      • Esther, is there a way for the Christian churches to denounce the (usually) evangelicals who espouse the hatred of the LGBT community without self-harm? It would take a great deal of bravery to do so. But they are the ones with the platform and the microphone at this point. It is up to the real Christians to take back their faith from the charlatans.

        I say this without malice. Many people like me walked away from our churches because while they spoke of a “loving God” from the pulpit they acted as hateful tyrants everywhere else. We can’t help you with your image, only you and the other members of your flock can disavow these people and take back your faith.

      • I agree, but respect my beliefs as well! If you are trying to convince me that it’s ok to be gay I figure you have a problem with it yourself!

      • What an abstraction like God thinks is irrelevant to the matter at hand. What you do is what matters. I don’t care what you think, as such, though I would certainly not condone you passing any laws based on an opportunistically and inaccurately translated document transmitted mostly years away from the events it purports occurred.

      • If you’re tired of being mis-represented, then perhaps instead of whining to US about it, you actually get up and put some energy into countering the people who claim they speak for YOU.

        That would be all of the extreme-right-wing “Christians” who do NOTHING about what Christ actually taught, but use their so-called self-proclaimed religious affiliation as a cudgel, while simultaneously asserting they THEY – not you – speak for Christians.

        As for myself, I’m REALLY sick and tired of hearing Christians whine about how they’re being misrepresented, as if it’s OUR fault that their lazy inaction has enabled it.

      • The criticism of Christians will only stop when (some) Christians stop trying to make everyone fit in their own worldview. Here’s my question: What are you going to do to STOP your “brothers and sisters” from doing this? Complain about how you’re being represented or go to the culprits and tell them to stop?

        • The same can be said about Muslims who don’t tell there “misinformed” brothers in faith to stop their extremist behaviors.

          I also think homophobia is completely overblown now versus 10 years ago. There are some people who could care less what your sexual orientation is that are getting frankly tried of seeing these type of diatribes about evil Christians.

          Things have changed, why not focus on those “Chrisitans” who have changed and accepted their homosexual brothers and sisters and not focus on the negative, which I find the LGBT community focuses on far too much!

          • I have close friends, family members, colleagues, and neighbors who are gay and I have NO idea who you mean by the “LGBT community” (as they are hardly a unitary voice) or how you have determined what ‘they’ focus on.
            I could be wrong, but it seems to me that as soon as we characterize people by some group they’re a member of (my own judgmentalism comes out re: ‘those Republicans’) we’re no longer loving our neighbors.

      • This article did not even mention “hating” gays. It talks about Christians who waste precious time and energy trying to stop gay people from being gay. The article also does not talk about what God believes. It talks about what (some) Christians believe. I assume that you are not claiming to be God, so you can only speak for yourself about what you approve or disapprove of. I frankly do not care one bit whether or not I have your approval. I do not exist for your approval. What I do care about is people using their disapproval to deny other people their rights.

      • Funny… I bet there are several Muslims that feel sick and tired of being misrepresented too. I guess the world is full of ALL kinds of people, not just fanatics.

      • “I do not believe that God condones homosexuality in either males or females.” I wonder how you came to not believe this about what god doesn’t condone? Could it be your own personal bias coming through and being transferred in your mind to “god”?

        • Or could it be YOUR bias asking this question? God, in my view, is LOVE. If you think GOD is stopping people from being the person GOD made him or her, then YOU’RE the one who is biased.

          This post was so beautifully written by John with no need to argue about it’s meaning. I’ve sat back quietly and watched people nanner on here about their own beliefs (which they have every right to however pissed off it makes me), unwilling to see how their egos are defining their concept of God and the Bible. That’s not Christ-like. Unless they are harming other people…let humans BE. Let Spirit Be.

      • Gail: “I agree, but respect my beliefs as well!”

        I”m sorry, but when you’re somewhat blindly condemning an entire group of people based on your “beliefs”, then I daresay you completely missed the point of the article.

        Radical Jews “believe” that it’s impossible for men and women to sit together. Am I to respect something so preposterous? Radical Muslims “believe” that men are so frail and open to sexual suggestion that the mere sight of a woman’s ankle will throw them into a frenzy and they must have her right there! Am I to respect that?

        Respect is not given lightly. If you wish your beliefs “respected”, perhaps it’s time to think about just what it is you believe and why.

        • “Remarkably silly”? How is this? What makes you say this?
          “Dishonest”? Please, please, please! How can you say this? What makes you say this?
          Such arrogant dismissal, it seems to me. Can you justify your remarks?

      • i agree with you. but Christians have a problem, that the LGBT community is rewriting portions of the Bible,,,that marriage is between a man and woman for example, and that homosexual acts are wrong. ultimately its up to the gay community and their God when they meet one day. we should love them but i have to stop short of treating them like any other married couple. i treat them like my friends but if forced to choose, I pick the Bible

        • Just a thought for you: Have you considered the possibility that the Bible was ALREADY rewritten, and what people are trying to do is restore the original teachings? I’ve got more than 35 years experience researching scripture in the original languages. I can tell you this: when it comes to homosexuality and what the limits of marriage are, what you are seeing in your English translations of the Bible is NOT what God originally said. What you have been believing and defending is largely Elizabethan prejudice enshrined in the vernacular Bible translations of the day, and now repeated, and frequently grossly amplified, in modern versions. Here’s a hint: God never said homosexuality was an abomination, Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality, Paul never condemned it (although he did call people trying to change their sexual orientation to meet societal and religious expectations a mistake), and there are two same-sex marriages recorded in the Old Testament. God never condemned either one of those, and in fact, He is mentioned as the One who put one of those couples together.

          Rewriting the Bible? No sir. That was already done. Just trying to undo the damage. See this website for the details: http://hoperemains.webs.com

          • Here, here. How I wish you could share your wisdom with more. The bible you read today was not written by God but by men who wanted a way to make others believe what suited them.

          • Mr. Carey, that’s bunk. I’ve researched too, and believe 100% that the KJV is the correct and accurate version. Homosexuality has and always will be an abomination to God no matter how you try and twist it. This article tries to put misplaced guilt on true Christians by saying, “spend more time on the hungry”, etc., but stop calling sin..sin. You can’t have it both ways. Yes we are called to reach out to others in many ways, and I try to do that and encourage others to do the same. But I will not compromise the Word of God to satisfy public opinion. Sin is sin, and God hates all of it. The difference is that the LBGT movement is an agenda, whose people want to push their beliefs on to others to just accept it, while they keep trying to take more ground! Mr. Carey, I won’t even call you reverend, because you are attacking the Word of God and if that is your true stand, then that makes you a heretic. Do not try to challenge me on my bible. I’ve researched for YEARS, and I know that the KJV is reliable, true and pure and I could provide many resources to prove it. But I know that many today are doing what is right in their own eyes.
            No true Christian hates the sinner, but, like God, we hate the sin. I love my children, but I didn’t always love the things they did, and had to correct them when they went off course. Any Christian who will not stand up for the truth, nor contend for the faith, is a lukewarm fence-rider, whom God will spew out of His mouth. We must never play the game of political correctness. We must speak truth. But please, do not attack my bible. My God has already shown me the KJV is His Word. And since He equates Himself with His Word, (John 1:1), then by attacking His Word, you attack God, and this is something no Christian should encourage another to do.

            • Dee: You just called the KJV pure. You lost before you started.

              It’s titled the King James Version for a reason. Or did you miss the reason KJV exists during all that biblical study of yours?

            • “Mr. Carey, that’s bunk. I’ve researched too, and believe 100% that the KJV is the correct and accurate version. Homosexuality has and always will be an abomination to God no matter how you try and twist it. ”

              Hilarious. Do your history homework and you will learn that King James was a screaming queen.

        • Have you ever actually looked to see WHY gay people want marriage? I’m gay, and I’ll tell you why I want, no NEED it. Because when my gay friend became ill and had to be hospitalized, he was tended by the man who had lived with him and loved him for 14 years. His family, who had disowned him and hated him for twenty years, suddenly showed up and forbade the other man from seeing him. Without the visitation rights afforded by marriage, the rights of the family came first according to the law. The family made sure that his final days were spent alone, with no one to visit him but the “christians” who non-stop told him he was going to hell. I NEED marriage rights to protect me from “christian love” so that my partner can visit me in the hospital when I’m near death.

        • That would make God a bigot… and He is anything but!

          While I agree it’s not a good idea to agree blindly with everything found in a vernacular translation of the Bible (there are numerous errors, many deliberate, and some of which can make God appear to be a bigot), His word as originally written is not bigoted, and agreeing with it will not make someone a bigot.

      • They are not interesting in helping people who need and want help. They are interested in making themselves feel better about themselves by debasing people whom their shallow religion has taught them deserve to be humiliated and abused. The real question is, why does anyone care what they think or what it says in their nasty little book?

      • I hope that you don’t think this article misrepresents you. It’s addressed to the “Homophobic Christian,” not to “The Christian.” The writer is clearly aware there is a difference. Having said that though, there is meat here for all of us.

      • Absolutely true. Unfortunately, the author, like many “progressives” misuse the word homophobic. I have no fear of gays, I am not disgusted by them. Their behavior is against God’s word, and therefore I am against it. Simple. Easy to understand. No hate, no name calling. No judging.

        • The only problem being that it’s not against God’s Word in its original and purest form, but only against how some have chosen to interpret that Word in their political translations, of which you are obviously a blind follower, leading other blind people to fall in the ditch.

        • Unless you are snooping around in the bedrooms of strangers, I don’t know what behavior you are objecting to. There is something seriously wrong with people who sit around obsessing and fretting about what they imagine strangers might be doing in bed.

        • The problem is the cherry picking. If you were also against people who eat shellfish, wear mixed fabrics or trim the hair on the sides of their face then go for it. But I suspect you not only have zero problem with those people, you are one of them. You only disapprove of the sins that don’t apply to you.

        • Actually, it is you who is misusing the word “homophobic” (or at least attempting a disingenuous deflection). You are confusing etymology with definition. While the former is interesting from a linguistic point of view, the definition of any word is paramount in its usage. Also, while you may or may not fear gay people, you certainly sound like a homophobe.

      • Does God make mistakes? If he doesn’t then ‘gay’ people are just like you; sons and daughters of that God you believe in!

      • And yet he created the whole spectrum of human existence that includes gays….and trans…and bi. Unless you are willing to say that your god makes mistakes, which doesn’t float in christian circles.

      • Well said. We love all people and pray for them. I am a christian and need prayers daily. There is no big or little sin in Gods eye we are all the same. He gives each of us that choice to accept or deny him its up to each of us to make our own choice. Gay is no different than any other sin. It is an abomination to God.

      • Yea. God does not condone love and committed relationships between adults. That’s exactly why I don’t believe in god.

      • You should have spoken out a lot more than you have because only the Christian conservative haters are visible in America, and it is killing Christianity forever.

      • God loves all people but they all don’t love Him.
        If God in His Word tells you not to do something then He will give you the power not to do it.
        If you are in habitual sin, then you have been taken captive by the devil to do his will and only God can grant you freedom.
        There are three ways a person “becomes” homosexual.
        1. Generation curse (hence feeling “born this way”.)
        2. Sexual abuse
        3. To choose it by curiosity
        There is a way to be free of it. It is a choice.
        Research each one and you will find the answer. But you must search with all your heart.
        Be blessed.

    • Christens aren’t invading the gay American people life style, they are trying to change the beliefs of christen believers . This group of people have lived this life style from the beginning of time. GOD has not changed only our government , Gods word says MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN ! The gay community and our elective officials are on a roll…. I wander how many of those people standing out side the court house demonstrating against the Rowen Co. clerk are on public assistance / food stamps. How else could they spend so much time doing nothing, they are loofers ,to much time on their hands, The devil tried to temp Jesus / Paul was thrown in prison for his beliefs, So many more christens were tempted so many times, Please can’t you see what’s happening to our Country ? lets go back to where we first begin,. Where all the decisions made were after our Government leaders PRAYED TOGATHER ASKING GOD to guide and direct their decision / path !!!!!.

      • What an utterly ridiculous reply, to an utterly beautiful post. This country was not built on religion it was built on freedom of choice. The very reason the founding fathers fled to this country was to escape religious tyranny and to choose the way they practiced their faith. Many people do not share your form of faith and choose their own spirituality. What part of that don’t you understand? Neither you, nor anyone else has a right to dictate to other people what Is none of your business. And your ridiculous statement about the people standing outside the courthouse? Seriously? There are many who are standing “for” Kim Davis there also, so I’m going to assume you’re saying they are all on “public assistance / food stamps” and are useless “loofer” also because they are doing the exact same thing?! Human beings were on this planet thousands of years BEFORE Christianity was ever born. Marraige has been around in many forms, for many reasons since Pagan time. Literally thousands of years before Christianity. People are BORN gay. It is not a choice it is the way they were created! YOU may pray and worship any way you choose, that is your right. You cannot however, pick and choose for other human beings. THAT is not your right. God loves EVERYBODY. And while I’m at it, YOU need to go back and start with an education. If you can post on this site than you have time to actually educate yourself! That might be a better use if your time. You might start with how to spell your faith that you’re so proud of and actually researching the faith you’re preaching about? “Christianity””Christians””loafers””together” And you might try researching the country and our government from the beginning, because you, my dear, are just wrong in so many ways. Our government specifically separated church and government business for the very reason that Kim Davis is now in jail for. She has every right to practice her faith. She just has NO right to use her government job to push HER faith on others. It’s really very simple. Her vanity alone is a sin as is her many divorces, ALL of which the Bible condemns as sins. A sin is a sin. Please use your time to love yourself and others as God said and let GOD worry about the rest. THAT is what the Bible says to do after all. I believe you have a good heart, but God also gave you a brain, use it to learn and better understand the things of which you speak. God will apreciate it, I am sure.

      • Get it through your head, it is a life not a “lifestyle.” The Bible as it stands today is not the word of God, but of countless people that influenced their will on it through their own interpretations and translations, something the Rowan County clerk is also attempting to do. No hellfire or brimstone or locusts or plagues have been visited on anyone due to same-sex marriage. Guess God approves of love winning and being possible for all.

        • You are so wrong. 2 Peter 1:20, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

      • Someone missed the entire point of this article.

        Also I would love to dump this in to Microsoft word and use track changes on it as I am assuming you meant to say Christians instead of Christens. Maybe you were trying to say christens, but I have a feeling not all people named Christen feel this way.

      • You “wander” how many people? Well I WONDER where you went to school?

        Seeing as how there are a bunch of “Christians” outside the courthouse, I WONDER if they are on food stamps/public assistance, especially seeing as how their own belief dictates that they should care for one another … why ask for a “handout” from the government, when “God” supplies all that is needed?

        And yes, I do see what is happening: “Christians” are trying to push their beliefs on to others. You don’t see Muslims at the DMV refusing to issue drivers licenses to women; you don’t see Jewish butchers refusing to sell you pork; etc. etc. etc.

      • Just stop and think for a moment — GOD said “wait till you are married before having sex” That is a gift from GOD only to be shared between a man and a woman. When children of any age start to engage in sex it does not benefit them no matter what they “say” is their orientation. When you sit to read the Bible the only true word of GOD say a prayer that HE opens your eyes to the truth. If people waited and followed GOD’s law on sex there would not be all these confused people living in chaos.

      • Apparently what is happening to our country is a lack of education. Please, before you judge and condemn, learn to spell and learn some proper English language structure. And just as a side note…………..did you ever think maybe they have vacation, sick days or etc? I am sure the answer is no you didn’t. That would require you to stop, think and not judge others for a minute. It is really none of your business. It IN NO WAY affects you. Get your house in order and only cast your stones when you are without sin.

      • Homosexuality is no greater sin than judging. Therefore you have sinned just as great by judging them and saying they are all on welfare and calling them loofers. Maybe they are, maybe they’re not. Just because they believe different than you, then they are system moochers? Um, no. Great way to show love. I agree homosexuality is a sin, but so is gossip, hate, judgement, lying, etc and so on. Are we as Christians picketing about any other sin? No just “gay sin” because as straight people that is one we can’t fall under. Give me a break. Show the love of Jesus not the division on the devil.

      • Did you actually read the article? Instead of getting your chest all puffed up because of the gays, why don’t you put effort into what Christ ACTUALLY commissioned us to do. Those people on assistance programs you so bitterly talk about are the poor. They make so little that they need the help to feed their families. If the Church was doing its job, those programs wouldn’t have to be there. But, alas, the church spends more money on trying to make people not gay, new carpet, or a fancy new sound system. That judgement seat you talk about, I hope your ready to answer for all the bigotry I read from what you posted. Do yourself a favor, pull your head out of your ass and actually DO what Christ demanded of us.

        Luke 3:11 – He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
        Proverbs 19:17 – He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

      • Please go read some real history, not some mythology a friend or website has spoon fed you. NONE of the Founding Fathers prayed together, virtually all were Deists, agnostics, or atheists, and ALL were in favor of an absolute wall between church/religion and government; they all had seen what a threat the power of the church was to individual freedom and liberty, every bit as much as were kings and monarchs… And you want to go back to a time when slavery was legal, women couldn’t vote, etc?…. You want to know why our country is in trouble? It’s because people such as yourself are misinformed and ignorant about history, and wish to dictate public policy based on a belief system lacking proof instead of logic, reason, and the best available data. You, and those who believe as you do, are akin to those who bought a tonic from a snake oil salesman off the back of a wagon in the hope of curing an ongoing ailment, and then want to force everyone else to have to buy the tonic….. Want to know why the country is in trouble? Start by looking in the mirror. Believe me, you, and people who think like you, are much more of an impediment to a functioning democracy than are the people on ‘public assistance/food stamps’.

        • Some theists will never actually research. It means they’d have to admit they followed the path of ignorance. If they researched both the Bible in its pure form rather than a translated (poorly mind you) pile of inaccurate rubbish, they’d actually have to remove that hate stick from their judgmental sphincter. I’d ask them to research the Greek vs English wording, but it’d fall on ears long closed to facts.

      • A great many of the founders of the Constitution were Deists. They believed in a Supreme Being, not specifically the God of the Bible. Folks fail to recall (or don’t know) that virtues such as honesty, charity, morality, etc., all existed before organized religion ever came into being.

      • HOLINE!! The U.S. was built on the Magna Carta, not on the ten commandments nor any bible whatsoever. You must have not been paying attention in history class or never bothered to read anything past the pages of your bible. And also, God never said anything. Apostles and prophets (human beings) did, claiming that God spoke to them and they wrote it down. How do you know God said anything? Were you there then? Jesus, a human being, preached of love and that’s all. Jesus didn’t ask you to judge or hate. Of course, none of us were there then either, so it’s all conjecture based on a book of stories and poems. Public Assistance and Food Stamps have nothing to do with marriage, vice versa, or who’s worthy of marriage, and to that end, if you want to quote your bible, there are at least a half dozen things that “God said” about divorce, infidelity and having children out of wedlock, and so the “Christian” K. Davis is already going to hell according to your bible, and with several divorces and marriages in her pocket, that says alot about how “Christians” uphold the sanctity of marriage. And so to that end, God will forgive her for her repeated sins, but God won’t forgive a man falling in love with a man and their wanting to share that love as a family. Nice double standard, “Christain”.

      • Your grammar and spelling is horrible especially when you consider you are defending your Christian beliefs and can’t even spell the word correctly. It’s important to have good grammar, spelling and punctuation if you want to be taken seriously.

        With that said, there were people on Earth before Christianity so your comment “since the beginning of time” is incorrect. You digress into blaming others and judging them. Isn’t that very in Christian of you? As far as being “God’s word”, don’t you believe man wrote those words? While they may have been divinely inspired, there have been dozens of variations of the Bible that have been influenced, hence corrupted, by man.

        His country was not formed upon Christian values. In fact, quite the opposite. Please read some history books. I’m not attacking you personally, just your arguments. You are spouting dogma without any real thought behind it. Please be kind to others as well as yourself.

      • I don’t know what country you are living in, but the United States of America is a secular nation. It is right there in the very first words of the First Amendment of the Constitution. It’s called the Establishment Clause. Look it up. You might actually learn something to penetrate the haze of self-righteous ignorance you’ve surrounded yourself with.

      • Wow. Okay. First… spellcheck. It’s free. Second, and please, again, let me just say, Fuckin Wow… if REALLY missing the point is an art form, you are a god damned Michaelangelo.

      • I feel certain that if any group lashes out against intellectuals or sensible people, you haven’t a worry in the world. As for counting how many demonstrators have food stamps, maybe some would prefer counting how many truly ignorant people think they have all the answers.

      • I thought it was ‘Judge not, lest you be judged’ and ‘Treat others as you would want to be treated.’ I apparently missed the part that said it was our job to approve or disapprove of anyone. God can do whatever judging needs to be done . Be kind and do something good for those less fortunate than you inn the time you have on earth.

      • If your spelling is any indication of the care you take in your thoughts, then you show your quality. There is a reason that more educated people have lower religious affiliations.

      • God’s “word” the Bible also says King Solomon had 700 wives! And he was arguably the wisest man in the world at that time!

        You’re whole “one-man-one-woman” argument of the “Bible” falls apart when we see King Solomon — let alone King David with his multiple wives, Abraham marrying his sister Sarah and then taking her slave Hagar as a concubine (one-man-TWO-women!), ad infinitum.

        Part of the Bible explicitly states marriages between one man and multiple women.

        So quit cherrypicking the Bible already!

        ….unless you can tell me how you justify your “one-man-one-woman” claim in light of all the multiple marriages (polygany, which the Mormons used to practice btw based on the Bible), or even the Bible’s use as justification for slavery until 1865 in the USA…

      • This might be a valid statement, but the poor grammar and wrong use of words detracts from any seriousness and turns it into a dark comedy. You’ve managed to insult Christians by repeatedly misspelling and also made a negative assumption about people who feel strongly enough about something to make their time part of their care.

      • Um, no. God’s word says “marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman of the same faith, generally arranged and not based on romantic love. And a bride that can’t prove her virginity should be stoned to death. Or it is between 1 man and his brother’s widow. Or it can be between 1 man + wives + concubines. Or it can be between a rapist and his victim. Or it can be between 1 man and many women. Or it can be between a male slave and a female slave based on the masters choosing. Or it can be between a soldier and his prisoner. ” Apparently, you have never actually READ the Bible….

      • I thought God’s definition of marriage was one man and one woman FOREVER! That attention seeking Kentucky wing nut has been married four times. If she were to truly follow this definition, then she would not issue marriage licenses to divorced people either. Instead, she targets one lifestyle choice to which she disagrees and attempts to benefit from the 15 minutes of fame as even bigger hypocrites like Huckabee promote her for political gain. People like her who parse the Word to meet their own purposes and those who seek to promote them to win an election inspire the rising tide of cynicism against Christianity and quite frankly disgust me.

      • “GOD has not changed only our government , Gods word says MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN !”
        Can you inform us where in the Bible does it say “MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN” exclusively?
        If GOD has not changed, then what do we do about all the polygamous relationships he seems to have blessed and honored e.g. Abraham and David?
        Jehovah Himself affirmed polygamy through His prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.
        “And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
        And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.”

        At the point in time when Jehovah gave additional wives into David’s bosom, David already had at least seven wives whose names are given: Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, 2 Samuel 3:2-5, Michal, v. 13.
        Jews throughout the Old Testament and even Christians into the first century AD and beyond accepted and permitted polygamy.
        Care for me to go on?

        But wait, there’s more, what about other seemingly bizarre blessed arrangements such as self-induced castration and celibacy, or the practice of wedding rape victims to their rapists?

        The bible does not teach absolute Complementarity – one man with one woman for life – as the only marriage paradigm God will bless.

        What you have done is cherry picked the rare scripture which supports your preferred narrow world view.
        The bible is not that neat, in fact it’s rather complicated, or should I say messy about the issue.

      • So those who were protesting against Kim Davis were on food stamps and welfare? Interesting. I just want to point out that not everyone works 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. Some people are able to take days off work, also. I know many advocates for gay marriage, and most of them are employed.

      • I”m sorry, how long has it been since you read the Bible? One man and one oman is only one of the many, many possibilities in that book. For example…

        — if a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist
        — if a man dies without a son, his wife MUST marry his brother, regardless of the brother’s current marital status.
        — a man can have as many wives and/or concubines as he can reasonably afford: Abraham had two, as I remember, and Daniel had an entire harem. Oddly enough, women were not allowed more than one man. Hmm…..

        There are many more, but let us not be deceived here. The Bible is quite clear that marriage is a flexible action… and the dictums on divorce are far more pronounced than anything said about LGBT folk. Of course, when was the last time we had a national riot over divorce?

        Hmm…..

      • God’s word doesn’t say that. You are misquoting the Bible. In Genesis 2:24, which you are referring, it says Man and Wife. The man leaves his parents and moves in with his wife and becomes one in flesh. This is during the telling of Adam and Eve, which was a male and female. If we are dealing with a man and woman, like Adam and Eve were, we can’t very well relate to a Man and Man. Besides, Moses was extremely concerned with procreation. This is part of why he had a harem of women. Why aren’t we practicing that?

        Later on, when Jesus Christ is asked about if Divorce is permitted under the new law, Christ ask him how if Gen 2:24 says that they become one in flesh, they can split?

        This is what you’re talking about, but nowhere in the entirety of the entire Bible does it call homosexuality a sin or give exact particulars on marriage. God knew back then that love is love is love and if 2 people are married, nobody should ever split them up. He backs this up when a Rabbi asks Christ what the 2 most important commandments are. Remember them? #1, Love and worship God. #2, Love your neighbor. Neighbor in this phrasing means, of course, your fellow man.

        We are asking for some basic respect. Our money is clean, trust us. Also, either we can have sex outside of marriage and you will be judged upon your attempts to keep us sinning, or we can get married and you don’t have to worry about us. We just want to live our lives. Don’t judge us on who we love.

      • OK how bout you tell me the passage where God says that marriage is between one man and one woman. Then I’ll tell you the passage where he says it’s between one man and several women or between one woman and her rapist. Fair?

      • You mean to a time when women couldn’t vote and slavery was condoned ? Or to after the civil rights movement when bigotry and racism went underground? I think I’ll pass…Just because the past seems idyllic, does not mean it was!

      • “I wander [sic] how many of those people standing out side the court house demonstrating against the Rowen Co. clerk are on public assistance / food stamps. How else could they spend so much time doing nothing, they are loofers [sic] ,to [sic] much time on their hands.”

        Your appalling English is exceeded only by the hatred seething from your words.

    • Are you purposely trying to grossly offensive or are you just intensive? This article is bigoted and prejudiced. Do you actually expect to insult people into seeing your position or is this just to feed the your own communities sense of righteousness and indignation?

      You use a politically inspired stereotype to demean an entire class of people. The stereotype is not only horrifically inaccurate, but based on such an exceedingly small group of people that it is insulting.

      You then, as a non-Christian, go on to school Christians in what their religion should be on a fifeteen verse Bible reference. Fifteen verses out of 31,102 verses in the Bible. Not exactly an exhaustive exploration, and not nearly enough for you to start teaching Christianity to Christians.

      On the other hand, they are already doing that. clearly you have not bothered to learn much about Christian charities. There is no other religious or secular group of people who are doing more to do exactly what your narrative asks.

      Of course you actually have to take a look beyond the hundred people your stereotype describes to find the legions of Christians doing massive amounts of charity work around the world. But that isn’t you point it is? You want to push a rude and offensive stereotype to make you point.

      • If you take notice, the author addressed this as an open letter to Dear Christian and is not addressing every Christian in the world. He’s a point. I believe the goal of this letter is provoke internal dialogue. I don’t think your beef is with the author as much as it is within yourself. (yes i’m a straight shooter 🙂

      • Paul his only mistake in this posting is that he lumped all Christians into one basket by not differentiating between the “Christians” holding those hate filled, stomach turning signs and some of the beautiful people you speak of. I don’t think it was done out of malice. He is just simply trying to say, to the ones spewing hate and condemnation, that there are many more causes they can help with that actually involve love. LGBT people are born LGBT. That is not something a sign and hatred is going to change. And the Bible says God loves everybody. The people holding those signs, are horrible people, and the signs imply that God is filled with hate and loathing. I’m not so sure that that isn’t true evil.

      • The people being addressed are those holding the signs, not ALL Christians. Please read words before responding to them with “righteous indignation,” a term implying that your anger is justified because you know what you are talking about.

      • I believe the point is that the loudest and most visible “Christians” are the ones the world sees; the ones pushing people away from faith. I am not a Christian (actually agnostic), but I respect Christainity and other religions. Diversity is what makes us great. I believe that religion can be helpful to people lost and in need of moral and/or spiritual guidance regardless of what form it manifests. I too mourn the loss of true religious values that leave judgment to the diety of which they serve and strive only to be truly good and kind; leading with LOVE.

      • Conservative republican “christians” are also advocating gun ownership….when the Bible clearly states, in the 10 commandments no less, that “thous shalt not kill”.

        The only purpose of guns in their proper usage is to kill or injure others.

        Don’t need a Christian nor a non-Christian to point out the obvious that SOME christians are misguided.

        (And btw, I’m Christian, and MY church accepts lgbt persons with God’s and their love…..and so do some other denominations. But SOME christians condemn my church……and where is that whole “judge not lest ye be judge” from the Bible you seem to love cherry-picking???????

        • Guns are not to kill people although they can be used to do so just like the knife in your kitchen drawer, or the pipe wrench in garage. Most people like to hunt with guns or to participate in sporting activities.

      • Its so fun and easy to judge Christians from a secularized, educated perspective. There is nothing more self a aggrandizing than knowing humankind’s accumulated scientific knowledge ( including the ‘soft sciences/humanities’ ) trumps man/woman’s vices. No god or government shall rule over my understanding of compassion. I know I am right.

      • When someone labels others they themselves are bigots. My God doesn’t hate anyone. I’m offended that you lump us all together as the “dreaded evil Christian morons” How about we don’t judge each other. You are becoming that self righteous bigot when you speak about any group with such distain.
        I am a Christian. My God is the God of love and light. My God loves us all and doesn’t see gender or who we love as an issue. I know many Homosexual people that are wonderful loving Christians. I respect the rights of others to believe what they are led to believe. Do you judge homosexual Christians as harshly as the rest of us? As I see it your diatribe was aimed at all Christians. I being a Christian myself take offence to your label. You don’t know me. I’m not out there writing my opinions on what I think is wright or wrong. I am answering one but I didn’t start this. How about you get down off the podium and stop judging me and go on and live your life as an example. I won’t judge you and you won’t judge me, sound like a plan?
        Also when you aim insults at entire groups of people are you not what you despise in them?
        You can’t fix stupid so don’t join the crowd. Be different, be an example of one who lives a good life that always irritates the haters.

        To the person who replied that she doesn’t think it was aimed at all Christians, Laura A: I believe it was aimed at all Christians which is where I have a problem with the author. Lumping us all together as in “Dear Christians” is speaking to us all. Had it read “Dear nutcase bigoted Christians” or “Dear holier than thou judgmental Christians”, I’d have known he wasn’t aiming his diatribe at me. Heck if he’d just said “Hater’s who are Christians” I could have overlooked the insult. I don’t believe he meant to offend those of us who practice true Christianity but it was offensive to lump me and all Christians into one hateful pot. Our Christianity does not try force others to believe what we believe, our goal is to be an example that others will want to follow. Hateful speech never converted anyone. No matter how nicely you sugarcoat hateful speech it’s meaning is still negative. Make the haters question themselves by being the best you can be. It confuses the hell out of them (pun intended).

    • While *I* was busy bothering gay people? Lgbt group are the bullies bothering everyone else. It does say in the old and the new testament that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin in God’s eyes. Expressing that fact is not bothering anyone. But then you get people (gay and straight) bashing God. Disrespecting and insulting God. Even if you don’t believe in God, please respect people that believe in and love God. I know this won’t change any gay people, and I’m not trying to. But I will not stand by quietly and allow a group of people to bash the very God that created them, and loves them, and blesses them. That’s not ok. Only God can change a sinner’s heart. That goes for every sinner. But it is not ok to ignore these bullies and allow them to ruin people’s lives. I stand with GOD.

      • You are free to believe what you want about homosexuality, and to believe that the Bible backs you up. (I happen to completely disagree with you, based on 35+ years studying the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible.) But you are not free to make other people’s lives miserable because of your beliefs, or deny them their basic civil rights. (Did you know that in a good number of states, it is perfectly legal to refuse to hire, or fire, a person, just for being gay? Or that in those states a gay person can be refused rented housing or evicted from it, again, just for being gay? And any attempts to introduce legislation to protect them in these basic necessities are loudly denounced by good “Christian” people.)
        Insisting that the Constitution guarantees the same rights to gay people, who, by the way, pay the same taxes you do, is not bullying. Trying to prevent gay people’s access to those rights is indeed bullying. One thing about bullies: they never seem to realize they are bullies. It’s always easier for them to blame the victims of their bullying.

      • Why are you calling gay people bullies? I have had people from numerous churches and denominations knocking on my front door trying to coerce me into believing that their way is the only true way and forcing their pamphlets on me-they even leave them in my door if I’m not home or on my car windshield…not one gay person has done this to me!

      • Dog, if you spell it the other way is God.

        I’m a Christian and I’m also Gay (not by choice). I spent a large proportion of my life, in retrospection I wasted so much of my life trying to fix or kill my gayness. So many of us have killed ourselves because we knew we are gay, that we are an abomination. The ones who are “cured” from being gay are not gay. The hatred against us is heavy and don’t you think we punished ourselves enough that you also pass your judgement in us and tell us that God hates us.

        When I see this article – it speaks to this who have this narrow minded way of thinking they have rights to condemn us.

        I am gay no matter how anyone looks at it and I look back and I just cry at the amount of suicide in God’s name and the ongoing damage pitted against us. I don’t feel safe in this world, I don’t feel loved or respected – they were taken from me because of a belief.

        Thankfully I know who I am, I know my values, I have known God’s love. My early days of being a Christian was the foundation to life and I so loved God with all my heart then I entered into darkness when I realised my orientation was real, I started hating myself, I stopped listening to God because he failed to heal me. I had lots and lots of sucidial thoughts – each time I tried I was interrupted or something got in the way. Then one day I was thinking if I could swerve the car slightly I could easily end my life and I heard Gid speak to me and he said “it’s really sad others tell me how I should be doing this when I have crated you, I knew you before you were knitted in your mother’s womb” for me I realised I was being a completely arrogant little shit … Here’s God who created me and I was telling God that he made a mistake – all of you know God never makes mistakes. That moment I repented from my selfish ways and I’m back to just loving God, reaching out to others to let them know it’s ok. God loves you and you need not worry what some nasty things are being said about you. You just put your trust in God and do your best in helping others. Life is beautiful when God is the centre of my life. I’m celebrating my 21 years of my partner who is a Christian and gay. I still don’t feel safe in this world but my trust is in God alone and I feel safe with God. Hmmmmm so the author is speaking to those who hate us and judge us. Personally I’d have time to break bread and drink with you and I respect your decision to be who you are, I’m not here to change your mind or belief – that’s between you and God. I ask you to do the same for me.

        For me to be with a woman would be in Paul’s word doing unnatural things – is the same as you lurking in strangers house watching people have sex. You should see me as me not what I do behind closed doors that is between me my partner and God.

        So I will choose and continue to love God with all my heart, soul and mind.

        Amen.

    • The Roman Empire, the largest in the history of the world, also tried to abolish Christians and the Gospel. Every culture every generation has tried to do the same.
      Communist Russia is just one of the most recent.
      The United states is just repeating the futile attempt.
      Homsexuality as always been present and has always been a culture’s downfall
      .The result is AIDS. Homos want acceptance.
      Perversion will always be the demise of a culture.
      They don’t reproduce………..They recruit. They want your children.

      • Homosexuality has NEVER been a culture’s downfall. It existed and was accepted in much of the world prior to European colonization. Same-sex marriage existed in North America for thousands of years. It didn’t destroy their culture… it took Christian invaders from Europe to do that.

        The idea that gay people recruit is not only a blatant lie, it’s a slap in the face to the many millions of gay people in this country. First of all, it isn’t possible to recruit someone to a different sexual orientation. If it were, there would be no gay people, because ignorant heterosexuals have been trying very hard to recruit all people to heterosexuality for a very long time. But it only works on heterosexuals. All their attempts at recruiting have no effect whatever on people who are by nature homosexual. Even if recruiting were possible, what would be the point? In every generation, a steady percentage of people are going to be gay anyway. No need to do any “recruiting.”

        You would do well to spend less time believing homophobic propaganda and more time studying real history, and getting to know some actual gay people.

    • Nice piece written about a very small percentage of people who THINK they are Christian. A more intelligent piece would describe those few narrow minded people. Those people I’m sure Jesus would have tried to counsel. They hate and judge those different than themselves.
      The overwhelming majority of real Christians spend their time and energy making :
      hungry people not hungry,
      hurting people not hurt,
      lonely people not alone,
      victimized people not victimized,
      invisible people feel seen.
      bullied people feel protected.
      grieving people feel comforted.

      It happens in Churches, missions, homes, and just about anywhere you Christian haters want to look.

      How do you atheist do that?

      I do apologize for those confused people who think they’re truly religious, by any name, who judge others. The gay haters may be the worst. They are confused.

      Gotta love you atheist for keeping us honest!

      Peace and Love

      • You fill the criteria of the article in a different way Jeff, only in your case it’s Atheists. You assume the author is an Atheist, you assume all Atheists think this way, by your own logic that makes you an Atheist hater too. But what really lets you down is the way you automatically call someone quoting the Bible as “Not a real Christian”. How does that make you any better than a Muslim who claims Isis don’t reflect Islam.

        The worst part for me is that you try so hard to downplay the numbers to the point where you are trying to suggest it’s like a few crackpots spoiling it for everyone else. But that isn’t the case is it? How many Catholics are there? How many Mormons? How about Baptists? Methodists? Lutheran? Are none of this teeny tiny group Christians either?

        Actually, no, the worst bit is you patronising a thoughtful piece by pompously deciding what would make it more intelligent! Then ending with the idea that you can decide what honesty is when it’s blatantly clear you and honesty are two different things.

    • the majority of christians do not care about being nice to people..or loving their neighbor. They either campaign for special treatment for themselves.. or they sit quietly while other christians do it. the majority of them.

    • I think a lot of people would be much happier if they stopped thinking about what other people do in the privacy of their bedrooms with other consenting adults. Live your own life and let others live theirs.

    • Real life – I’ve been a Christian for twenty years, was a serious drug addict prior to that (just for contrast) but, in the past 20 years that I’ve been attending church and fellowshipping with hundreds of people, i have yet to hear anyone preach or even comment negatively on gays or especially how their sin is any different than anyone else’s. I always hear this rail against Christians and i suppose there may be some that deserve this criticism due to their rigid position on homosexuality but, perhaps this is a form of political Christianity that is not main stream ot at least not the stream that i am familiar with. I’m not naive but, i do know for certain that there are many Christians that do not partake in the manner of behaviour that you are portraying. My only opinion to share is that i feel it’s sad when those who complain about bigotry become that which they complain of.

    • Homophobia is SOLELY A CLOSET HOMOSEXUAL DISORDER. Only closet cases go to the extreem to disrupte the peacefulness of people who overcame life long Pseudo-Heterosexual-Mental-Conditioning. Closet gays think orientation is a choice. They will harass, annoy, do anything to prove their own false persona. Its been proven.

    • Once again thank you John Pavlovitz for giving a gay person like me the prospect of hope for reconciling my faith and sexuality. I would much rather a Christian show me they are Christian than just repeat over and over again how much better a Christian they are than I.

    • I do not berate homosexuals on the street any more than I would berate my brother dealing with any sin. But my brother would also not expect me to excuse his sin, let him wallow in his sin, elevate his sin, or condone his sin.

      • So you don’t berate your brother for his sin, but neither do you excuse it. So, what exactly are you doing? Obviously, you believe your brother knows you believe he is in sin. How does he know that unless you said something to him? What would you say?
        But suppose your brother’s response was “I’m sorry you feel that way, but I don’t believe this is sin, so there is nothing for you to excuse or not excuse.”
        Let’s say your brother has married another man and they have adopted a little girl and are raising her. You believe they are in sin. But neither your brother nor his husband believes their relationship is sin. Are you going to afford their beliefs the same dignity you afford your own? Will your brother and his family be welcome to sit at the same table as you for a holiday dinner? Without having to listen to scripture quotes or sermons? Will your children be taught to call your brother’s husband “uncle?”
        These are things to think about seriously, because, just as your neighbor isn’t only the person living next door, your brother isn’t only a person who shares the same biological parents. The majority of LGBT Americans identify as Christian. Doesn’t that mean they are also our brothers and sisters?
        By the way, berating someone is equally accomplished without words. In the above example, anything you would do that treated your brother’s marriage as “less than” or not real, to treat his husband as other than your brother-in-law, or their daughter as less than your niece (or the cousin of your children) does indeed constitute berating them. Regardless of how you personally feel about their marriage, to treat them in any negative way because of your feelings or beliefs is wrong. It’s no different than if your brother married someone of a different faith or race, or just married someone you and your family hated. You need to rise above that, and treat everyone, including your brother’s husband, with love and dignity.

    • Jesus never sought to be “politically correct.” He did not say what people wanted to hear, but what was true. He did not adapt to people; he expected people to adapt to God’s truth as he spoke it. He said that his words, which were given to him by his Father (John 12:49), spoke a universal truth that would outlast the physical universe. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35). He said that his words would be the test by which men would ultimately be judged (John 12:48). I think we need to take all of his words very seriously. (All Scripture quotations are from the New International Version, unless otherwise indicated.)

  1. I prayed relentlessly for 17 years for God to “take away” from me this attraction to my own gender. He hasn’t. I gave up praying about it in 2012. Such an amazing relief permeates my being now. I’m still single, and celibate (well, that’s the goal), but I’m not laden with daily guilt and shame that my attraction must change in order for God to love me. Otherwise, it’s like blaming a compass for pointing north.

    • William,
      When my son was very young, he’d cry himself to sleep every night because he couldn’t change his orientation. He cried to God every night to take it away. God never answered him. When you look at those 2-3 verses in the New testament that seem to group gays in the same category as murderers, rapists, backstabbers, etc., it just never made any sense to me at all. Why would God make someone gay then send them to hell? Why is it that every gay person I know asked God to take it away but he never did in every single case? Maybe it’s because he never intended to take it away. Maybe those verses were pointing to something much more evil and sinister than two people who find a soulmate who happens to be of the same sex? If your goal is to be celebate that’s fine. Maybe everyone should shoot for that goal but don’t ever think God won’t love you because you are gay, even if you do find your soulmate. Hugs 🙂

      • God dont make nobody gay. Thats a choice you make. Wht would he destroy 2 cities for being gay but turn around and make you gay. Yiu need to read the bible and ask God for an understanding.

        • No, no, no! It’s you, Yvette, who need to study the Bible in its original languages, and not just read what you have been fed by your church, or family. Your understanding is twisted and flawed entirely.

        • God never destroyed any cities for homosexuality. Do a little more research on Sodom and Gomorrah (and the two other cities that were destroyed at the same time, as well as the one city that was supposed to be destroyed but got a last minute reprieve. Few Christians who like to invoke Sodom and Gomorrah even know about the other cities.) Don’t believe everything you see in English translations of the Bible, especially the newer ones. Many new translations have rewritten Gen. 19 so that not only does it NOT reflect what is written in the Hebrew text, but it completely agrees with the Koran’s version of events!
          Scripture in the original languages never once links those cities to homosexuality, nor does the Mishnah (pre-Christian Jewish Bible commentary, which goes into detail on the actual situations that were going on in Sodom). There is also no such word as sodomite in the Hebrew and Greek text.

          NOBODY chooses to be gay, nor COULD anybody choose to be gay. It isn’t humanly possible to choose which sex you will be attracted to and which you will not. Such attractions are innate and immutable.

      • God does not make a person gay and send them to hell! Please don’t ever think that! God sent his perfect Son from heaven to die a cruel death on a cross to cover the sins of all people. All we have to do is love Him back by believing in Jesus and accepting him as our Savior and Lord. I have heard of Christians who have been delivered from the temptation of same sex attraction. All people sin. No sin is worse than another. Jesus died for all of us. He is our hope and our redeemer. We love all people the way Jesus did and like Him, we try to point those around us to His saving grace.

      • Yvette, I read the bible and got an understanding. I read Ezekiel 16:49-50 and it said this: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: she and her daughter’s were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore, I did away with them as you have seen.”
        I bet Jesus knew about that piece of information when he said in Matthew 10 to the twelve apostles that Sodom would fare better than the people in Israel if they rejected those apostles. Hmm. It appears that sin of Sodom isn’t homosexuality after all. A person who sodomizes another person isn’t having anal sex with them. He/she is turning away from them in their greatest need; not feeding them when they are hungry when there’s plenty to give, not helping poor people when it’s obvious they could use a helping hand, and being so self righteous and prideful that the needy are hurt terribly when they are turned away. According to the bible, that’s the definition of a sodomite. God does make gay people gay. And he has no desire to take it away. If he did, there probably would be no gay people because, like I’ve said before, who would want to be abused at the hands of pious and arrogant people? Heck no! I’m going to pray and make that crap go away! And Karen, thank you for your kindness but it just doesn’t work that way. I know you love Jesus very much. I hope in your spiritual journey that at some point you will be open to finding out exactly what Jesus said about gay people and how we should be loving and treating people and not judging people who just want to be loved and accepted.

      • Neversaynever… My friends who are married and straight have tried for years to have children and were unsuccessful. I guess God didn’t create “everyone” to be fruitful and multiply. But they sure have had a lot of sex. You are correct that God created Adam. But where did Steve come from? All your exclamation marks make me think you are a little pissed off, but maybe not, since you turned it into a prayer by adding amen at the end of your rant.

      • First of all it’s not natural! God created man and from man he created woman and he created them to be fruitful and to multiply in the earth. Two men nor two women have the ability to multiply. Our function as women and men has been clearly stated in the Bible and changing your naturally designed function that God designed you to be is saying the creator God himself made a mistake! God does not make mistakes!

        Moreover, this article written by John D Pav; is simply ignorant! As a Christian woman, I will not even waste my time responding to such nonsense in depth. But I will say this…. His article is purely opinion based and silly emotion and none of what he said is based from the bible. Jesus loves those who believe in him and his father and loves those who love him. To love God is to know Jesus and the only way to the father is through the son. Christians are beginning to take a much needed stand for Gods things because this country is moving further and further away from its original founding. This country was formed on God and Christian beliefs. God has called his servants to preach the gospel, lay hands on the sick and cast out demons etc. We have been called to love our brothers and sisters. Our brothers and sisters are those who believe in Jesus Christ. I pray for those who have ears to hear the truth of Gods word (The Bible) to hear. The end time is drawing near and the bible clearly maps out the way to heaven so anyone out there thinking you’re going to die and go to heaven by not believing in Jesus Christ; is sorely misinformed! Repent and give your life to Christ! He is the truth, the way and the life. All those that give their life to him and believe on him will have eternal life with the father in heaven. Amen

        • Oh, one more thing. I used to believe, and be judgmental, and mean like you are (actually, I was the Saul of it). I am so glad that my eyes are open now, and that I don’t consider myself to good to love or be around anyone no matter what their lifestyle is. I will say this, you are deceived, and I say that with no malice in my heart. Unless someone had the guts to tell me the truth, I would still be stuck in that antiquated way of thinking.

        • I’m so glad you did not enjoy John’s articles, because it is quite clear that your narrow and limited and hateful comments are in line with the very thing that John is trying to address. And since you did not heed it you will continue to live in the hateful manner to which you are accustomed and we won’t have to put up with your comments any more. Pity you insist on remaining a Pharisee.

    • I’m glad you were able to come to this conclusion. I, personally, was never concerned with praying away my attraction – I just thought it was something I could live without acting on. Now 32, I have only recently changed my thoughts and am happier than I’ve ever been. My boyfriend of 2 years now has gone through probably much of what you have. He only came out a few months before I did (only about 6 months before we met). He struggled for years with his thoughts and his religion. Being heavily involved in the church, and a campus minister at several universities, he too finally came to the same realization that you have. He was fearful of turning a student away from faith by preaching this same doctrine to them that he himself was becoming more and more uncomfortable with. He eventually changed his views, and has since come to realize that homosexual relationships – as they are today, being virtually equal to hetero relationships – are in no way sinful. These loving, committed relationships that are built on trust and devotion are not what was being referred to in the bible.

      I am happy that you are no longer worried about being attracted to other men. There really is nothing wrong with it whatsoever. I hope you are open to the idea of having a relationship one day, and are not single now simply because you still feel you are not allowed to act on your feelings. God has made you the way you are, plain and simple. No mistakes were made, nothing needs to be changed. It can’t be changed. It simply is. There are loving, compassionate, accepting people all around, and I believe that, if you want to find love in your life in the form of a partner to share it with, you can do so without feeling guilty. Having someone to share your life with – someone that truly makes you feel happy and at peace – is something every person deserves. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    • When Christ died for our sins, he died for all of them. We are forgiven all our trespasses. That includes past , present and future. The flesh combats the spirit and the spirit the flesh. Sin is in our nature and we can not change that. I am not Gay. I have sin in my heart every hour of every day. No one is worthy of salvation… none of us. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are born with sin in our hearts, we die with it there. Christ became sin for us so when he died he could cover our price. He loved us so much he died painfully and horribly so we could be with him forever. The parts of us which are fleshly, will never completely stop sinning. That’s why we’re paid for by Christ’s blood. When the Father looks at me, he sees the Son. When he looks at you, if you’ve accepted Christ’s sacrifice, he sees the Son. Just because your flesh pushes you toward sin, does not mean God hates you. In fact, Paul was saddled with a thorn in the flesh, when he asked to have it removed 3 times he was told … let me find the verse so I don’t say this wrong: 2 Corinthians 12:9 King James Version (KJV)

      And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

      Our infirmities can be a bum leg, being blind, or being drawn toward specific sin. All these things are in the flesh, they’re problems to understand and not allow to get you down. God’s strength is made perfect in our weakness. He can take an ugly man and show how beautiful his love is in him. He can take me and my ADHD and my tendency toward game addiction, and show his patience with my impatience. He can take a Gay man and use him to share the Word and the Grace by which we are saved with people who would not listen to straight people because they think we’re all out to get them.

      To me, being gay is no more a sin than “covetousness which is idolitry.” (col 3:5) Everyone in America is guilty of that every day. It hurts me to see how people have twisted the concept of sin to mean, “just the stuff I don’t do”. God isn’t subjective, making this group of sins worse than others in this age of grace. We’ve all sinned and come short of the glory of God. We all have the opportunity to know that Christ died on the cross for MY SIN. We have the choice and the chance to believe it. WE all get the opportunity for salvation. No matter how good or bad we are. Ok… got long winded, just had to weigh in on this as a Straight Christian Man who hurts for the people trapped in this sin cursed earth trying to sort out the Love of God from the Hate of men.

      • These fundies do indeed forget that sin is in their own lives each day—and much of it willful in nature. They are just careful to avoid noticing it, because if they did, the cognitive dissonance between what lives within them each day and their peculiar view of the Christian faith would be too bitter and difficult to address—and cause a physical, emotional, and spiritual meltdown.

      • We are all sinners. The difference between a sinner who accepts his/her sin as his/her nature, as something that will just be, and continues doing it…and the sinner who understands sin as something that is never to be accepted and never conceded to and against which we should never stop fighting and repenting… is that the latter will be forgiven and the former will not. Should we sin simply because we know that God grants grace and it will be “okay” to do so? Heaven forbid! Repentance is needed and we must continuously turn away from sin, or we will not receive forgiveness and we will not receive an Eternity with God after this life. That goes for gay, straight, bi, white supremacist, Black Life Matters, Baptist, Mormon, Catholic, Satanist and atheist equally.

      • IF breathing were a sin, COULD you stop? Of course not. They did not choose to be gay, they are gay. When you can stop breathing they will stop. Don’t be rediculous. You’re just looking for a reason to elevate yourself and tell others what to do.

    • He can’t change your attraction to the opposite sex, you have to make that decision for yourself. He promised us free will, in exchange he does not control every aspect of our lives. He loves you no matter what your choices in life are, if he didn’t, there wouldn’t be a single person among us who deserves to go to heaven, not even Ghandi or mother Theresa. You’ll be in my prayers brother.

      • You say that God can’t change someone’s same-sex attraction, but then turn around and tell someone he can change it himself? You labor under the delusion that same-sex attraction is some kind of choice. Nobody has the power to choose to which gender(s) they will be attracted, and to which gender they will be unattracted. Not you, not anyone else.

        God certainly could change someone’s sexual orientation. But He won’t. Just like He won’t change their eye color. There’s no legitimate reason for Him to do so.

    • I do not have all the answers. God does. Please do not give up. God made a way for me and HE will make a way for you. Read His Word and believe it even when it seems hopeless. God is going to make a way. I still feel experience same sex attractions but that is just it. God is bigger than my attractions and He is able to handle anything. I, myself, could not change but through the blood and power of Jesus, have decided to hold onto the truth. I do not want to lose my place in Heaven over a few minutes of sex. Not a fair trade. Like I said earlier, I do not have all the answers–Jesus does and I believe Him. Hope you do too!

      • “‘I still feel experience same sex attractions…”

        Then you are still gay. What exactly is it that you think has changed? You’ve learned to control your lust? All Christians are supposed to do that. Not to the point of celibacy, of course, but to the point of not being sexually active with someone other than one’s own spouse, and not lusting after others.

        This is the sort of distortion and dishonesty that give fuel to homophobes, when someone claims to no longer be homosexual, when that is clearly not the case at all. Being homosexual is defined as experiencing same sex attraction only. Being bisexual is defined as experiencing attraction to both sexes. A person who is a lifelong celibate still has a sexual orientation.

      • To expand on the Reverend’s response, when you claim that you do not want to lose your place in heaven over a few minutes of sex, you are also giving fuel to the notion that one’s sexuality is only based in the act of sex. While the act itself is a large part of any romantic relationship, it is certainly not the foundation of it. By denying your attraction and resisting it because you believe that is what God wants, you are losing out on the chance to have a loving, committed, fulfilling, intimate relationship with another human being. Yes, people can and do have close relationship with family members and friends, but there is nothing on earth that can compare to the relationship one enters into with their spouse. If God loves you, why would he saddle you with the “burden” of being attracted to men, but then say that you absolutely cannot act on that attraction and therefore are denied the chance to love as a heterosexual does? It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Whatever the context, I believe the line is “and the greatest of these is love.” That holds true for everyone … the greatest thing you can experience while a part of this world is true love. I believed for the longest time that I would be able to live my life without such love. That I could be content living alone and would probably even be happier that way. Now that I have accepted myself for who I am and found someone to love, I could not imagine life any other way, and am happier than I have ever been.

        As an aside, if you claim that you are now heterosexual, but still experience attraction to men, then I also say to you that you are merely bisexual. Sexuality, as with so many other human traits, is in no way black and white. It is not one or the other. It is an entire spectrum. Claiming that you were able to overcome your same-sex attraction and others can do so as well is simply lying to yourself and to them and is incredibly harmful to them.

    • Totally nailed what? This guy is apostate. Totally rejects the Bible. His Church says sin is really not that big a deal. He is really someone who should leave the ministry. He is leading so many people astray

      • “Apostate” Origin:
        Middle English: from ecclesiastical Latin apostata, from Greek apostatēs ‘apostate, runaway slave’. <<

        – or (my definition) – "to run from that which enslaved you, becoming free"

      • I would have to say a big “YES” to that. Year after year I work with teens who struggle daily with this exact same thing. For years they have begged God to take away this “affliction”, only to fall further into confusion as to who they are. None of them ever found peace in that until they finally came to terms with the fact that they are gay….the way God made them. Would a just God throw anger and contempt at a person who won’t get up and walk, even though he made them crippled? How ridiculous. So why would he create someone gay, then be upset because they are gay? It sickens me to have lost so many kids to suicide because society refuses to accept something they don’t understand. If it doesn’t sicken you, then you are no Christian and you may as well join the Westboro Baptist Church. Compassion is one of Christ’s greatest teachings. Not hate…don’t believe He ever used that term referencing human beings. This is coming from a straight white male Christian.

      • No. You miss the point. John is not apostate. He is “aprostate,” which means that he is an important organ in the body of Christ. If you are in the body of Christ, which I tend to doubt, perhaps you are the…well…you know. I bet the other folks here know what body part I am thinking!!!!

      • Christian fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism are apostate because they give the words of Jesus lip service—but do not believe his holy words or do his holy words.

      • P.S. Idojunkmail. You stand fully within the circle of sin yourself—but like all fundies—you deftly ignore your own sins—even blind yourself to them so you can make it through a day without falling apart—yet regardless of your ability to observe them—you and all other fundies stand squarely within the circle of sin. How about we see you do some work on your own sins—like stopping each day of your life to notice each one and count it. You can do that today. Why not start right now by counting out the ones that happened since breakfast today?

  2. Awesome awesome post! Thank you!!! It wouldn’t hurt me either to spend my time helping those who hurt rather than constantly being in defense mode with all those gay haters and trouble makers. It’s a hard thing to do, loving those who only want to hurt me and those I love with their tired, tired words. But Jesus probably expects me to do just that.

    • If I were a betting person, I would bet you $5.00 that the people who torture you would not even accept any action of loving and caring that you might generously offer to them because they would say that it creates a relationship between them and an odious sinner—thus making them unequally yoked—and their “rot docterns” demand they they separate themselves from relationship with all sinners. The part I am still trying to figure out is how they separate themselves from themselves????

    • Yeah. Like how could a person who reads the Bible ever come up with a stupid and destructive thing like “love your neighbors as yourselves”—and what idiot, vile, ruthless sinner would have ever dared to come up with and say a stupid saying like that? That person belongs in Hayul.

  3. Again! You’ve done it AGAIN! You have held up the truth in such vibrant colors that once more I am breathless with surprise and joy and relief at your wisdom and the resonance of your words and thoughts! It is more than sufficient, it overwhelms. And thank you AGAIN for sharing your gift and your vision and helping me and so many others to open our hearts and reflect on our own attitudes and behavior. I send hugs.

  4. When will homosexuals stop trying to turn the rest of us Gay? They have obviously already converted you away from Christ, posting hatred like this repeatedly.

      • Just a thought – sarcasm is juvenile. You are better than that. And you make far better points when you don’t stoop down to that level. Consider leaving well enough alone…Ted’s comment obviously comes from a place of anger that you cannot fix and only complicate with sarcasm. You could, however, correct him on the comment he made regarding your Christianity. You are most certainly a Christian, and as long as you continue to use clear Biblical references and examples to support your arguments you will remain respected for your correct perspective on the issue you addressed. My 2 cents. God Bless! Thanks!

      • Just a thought – sarcasm is juvenile. You are better than that. And you make far better points when you don’t stoop down to that level. Consider leaving well enough alone…Ted’s comment obviously comes from a place of anger that you cannot fix and only complicate with sarcasm. You could, however, correct him on the comment he made regarding your Christianity. You are most certainly a Christian, and as long as you continue to use clear Biblical references and examples to support your arguments you will remain respected for your correct perspective on the issue you addressed. My 2 cents. God Bless! Thanks!

      • Johndpav, you idiot. You were sworn to secrecy on this! Now Theodore will tell others, and soon everyone will know our intentions. Our cause is doomed!

    • Apparently, Theodore, you weren’t listening. Gays are not trying to turn you; but Lucifer -IS- trying to stop you from helping those you CAN help, like the hurt, the hungry, the lonely, the poor…

      As one person said…Lord, grant me the strength to change what I can, the bravery to accept what I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

      Listen, before it’s too late for you.

    • Do you really think anyone has the power to turn someone else gay? It’s not possible. If you think you could possibly be persuaded, then perhaps you are not 100% heterosexual to begin with. No one can alter your sexuality.
      If you think the author of this blog has been converted away from Christ, I submit you do not know Christ at all, for the author’s words are the very heart and soul of the Gospel.

      • Rev. Cary. Your post conjures up visions of Dr. Frankenstein’s laboratory, electrodes, chemicals bubbling in laboratory glassware, a thunder storm outside, and the crazed doctor screaming out: “Finally!!! This very night my child.” I will make you turn gay!!!”

      • Pedophiles are even more ” born that way” than homosexuals. Psychiatrists say there is no change possible for them. Did God create them this way?

        • Boy, are you confused. Pedophiles are not born that way, and no legitimate professional claims they are. Pedophilia is about control, not sexual orientation. People who are sexually abused as children have a higher chance of doing the same when the grow up, because control of their sexuality was taken from them, and by having sex with someone who has less control, they feel they regain some of that control.
          Homosexuality is not about control. There is no correlation between sexual abuse and homosexuality, and most gay people never experienced it. It is sexual orientation (including homosexuality, heterosexuality, etc.) that professionals understand cannot be changed, and shouldn’t be changed, NOT pedophilia.

      • Oh. You misunderstand. Fundies think LOVE IS HATRED. As an acquaintance of mine once said, “Christian fundamentalism is an aspect of faith from which ALL LOVE HAS BEEN DRAINED AWAY.” If you hold these two basic fundie principles in mind, it is easy to understand why fundies are as they are and why they do as they do.

    • Ted. Gay people are not trying to turn other people gay. You must be reading Family Research Council propaganda or something close to it. Your notion that this post made by John is “hatred” just goes way deep off the edge.

    • None of us want to “turn the rest of you Gay.”

      First off, there is no such possibility. Someone does not “turn gay.” It is the way a person is born. There are people of all walks of life, from every imaginable background, who are gay. It has nothing to do with the way they were raised, the types of homes they were raised in, who they were around while growing up (so children exposed to gay relationships will not automatically become gay themselves), or any other nonsense. It’s much like being left-handed. As of yet, there has been no discovery of a left-hand gene. Yet at the same time, there is nothing about a person’s life that makes them left-handed. It simply is who they were born to be. Plain and simple.

      Second, there is no “gay agenda”. I (and most likely all others) would simply like to live life as we see fit – marrying the person we love and being able to show that love freely and share it with our family and friends without worrying about what might happen to us for doing so or without looking to see who’s around first. Why does that sound like such a horrible thing? Why is love so scary?

      This man, this Pastor, this beacon of light for many, has simply been able to see through the hate, through the nonsense that so many people hide behind simply because they have been taught to do so, and because they have been conditioned to believe that homosexual relationships are “icky”. He has, I’m sure, done lots of soul searching, and lots of research first, and has come to the conclusion, as many have, that loving, committed same-sex relationships are nothing to fear, nothing to rally against, and certainly are not sin.

    • Nobody is trying to ‘turn’ anyone gay(you can’t do that, just like you can’t ‘turn people straight’. You’re blinded. There is no hatred in this post – you need to reevaluate your thought process. You are not judge or jury, and you are doing nothing but spreading hate yourself. Step off.

    • Nobody is trying to make you gay. A person is either gay or not gay. No one can make you be one or the other. You didn’t make a decision to be straight. You just are. They didn’t decide to be gay. They just are. Don’t be afraid. Nobody is trying to do anything to you. Nobody is spreading hatred except for the people holding signs that say God hates you, the people who bully gays, the people who torture and beat them, sometimes killing them. Read your Bible again. Jesus never said one word about homosexuality. Not one word. But he did say to love one another just as he loves us. If all Christians would do that, the entire world would be a much better place.

    • How is this hatred? Did you not read the post at all? First off, I am a 17 year old gay male. I do not want to turn you gay because quite frankly, the lot of you who use this argument are quite ugly. Not within looks (although, sometimes that is true), but as well as personality. Is it hatred to ask Christians to stop protesting what they can’t change, and focus on issues like world hunger, people dying, and other crisis’ in the world? If so, then you may want to reevaluate your life.

    • What are you afraid of, Theodore? I am straight and have been around gay people all my life. I have never felt that “pull”. Do you feel it? At what point in your life did you decide to be straight? Was it really a “choice”? I never had to make a choice. I knew I was straight all along. You have nothing to be afraid of, do you?

    • No one wants to turn you Gay, silly. We simply want the same civil rights and ability to live happy lives. Since hellfire, brimstone, locusts, toads, plagues, etc. have yet to rain down from the heavens, it looks like God approves of love for all. However if she doesn’t approve, she gets to tell us that, not mere idiots who try to assume to know her mind. Calm down and love your fellow men and women. It’s a much better life.

  5. After 40 years of intense involvement in what has pretty much evolved into a cult (fear, control, cut off from family, etc.), my husband and I have finally left. I spent many years feeling guilty because I just couldn’t buy into all the hatred and judgement that was preached. We probably will never be part of an organized religion again – even though there are still so many that we love dearly. Each day since discovering your blog, I read your words to my husband. Love and acceptance are the answer. We appreciate your drive to say the things that need to be said – including today’s blog. Thank you.

    • Marci — my husband and I pretty much left organized religion two years ago after 60 years…. I appreciated your comment…Love this blog post. It really is about acting like Jesus, not just talking about him. I fail miserably but keep trying..

  6. I wish everyone could read this. It’s time to get up off of our collective Christian backsides and do the work that Jesus called us to do. We need to be the “body of Christ”, the hands that reach out to those in need, the ears that listen to the lonely and hurting, the arms that hold those who need comforting. Let’s not just be the mouth that condemns those of whom we disapprove, or the fingers that type hurtful and judgmental comments that, if we were to be honest with ourselves, are not delivered in Christian love. It is so easy to sit in our comfy chairs, behind the anonymity of our computer screens, quoting scripture and passing judgment on others — feeling so thankful that WE are not like THEM. Unfortunately, as John points out, this doesn’t feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, comfort the grieving, etc. Homosexuals have all heard from well-meaning Christians about how they are doomed to Hell for being who they are, and they don’t need to keep hearing it. As John said, it cannot and will not change them. What can change is the fact that many of them do not feel welcome in our churches, do not feel Christian love in our presence, and have been driven away from their relationship with God because of the treatment they have received at the hands of the Christian community. We can change this! .

    • Yes, LGBT people constantly hear how they are doomed to hell for being exactly as God created them to be: something that they cannot change. You kindly pointed out that since they’ve already heard that, they don’t need to keep hearing it. I agree that they don’t need to keep hearing it, and will add that they never needed to hear it in the first place. It’s abusive.
      Research shows the incredible damage done by discrimination and prejudice to all aspects of health, including depression, loss of faith, health issues, a shortened life expectancy, and sometimes death. This is clearly bad fruit, so the tree that produces this fruit–bigotry–is also bad.
      Beating someone physically or mentally and saying it’s love is abuse, and that is what happens far too often to our LGBT brothers and sisters at the hands of many Christians. Using 5 verses out of over 31,000 from the Bible that have been mistranslated and misinterpreted and taken out of context as justification for abuse is sickening. There are more verses in the Bible that speak against divorce–which is a choice, unlike being born LGBT–and yet people don’t tend to abuse those who have chosen divorce like they do those who were born LGBT. Why is that? Why are five mistranslated and misinterpreted verses used to justify abuse and the over 500 verses about love ignored? Why are the commandments (which never mention LGBT people) routinely broken in order to abuse LGBT people? (Abuse is a form of killing–killing one’s spirit; saying that being born LGBT is evil is a lie; putting one’s chosen bigotry above hurting humans in order to cause those humans more pain is not in the least bit loving, etc, etc.)

    • I can see the logic behind your response as well as the desire to see good works done, however brothers and sisters or attitude is to never give up. It’s also not about pointing fingers at sinners, its about love. God is love and we are to be love. Scripture tells us what is right and what is wrong. So in light to this fact what is loving? Do we see atrocities like rape and death go unanswered and say, well they have heard everything about not doing those things so just let them to continue without the voice of compassion and reason. May we never stop talking about what is right and wrong just because we get weary or think it is unheard. I know that the key to our message of salvation is and always will be love in and from Christ and his people. However is it loving to allow people to continue without the light and law of Jesus? By all means let’s focus on having a relationship with Jesus over a judgement from his people but shrinking from talking truth is against what Jesus stands for. Remember he is the way, the truth and the light. A message of acceptance of sin is impossible in Christianity. As John one tells us we can not have fellowship with the world and Jesus. So in the desire to see Jesus’ works done we need to remember that truth of scripture goes hand in hand with salvation.

      • A message of acceptance of sin is exactly what Christianity is about. We are all sinners. It is not our job to judge and tell people who is right and who is wrong. Jesus himself said, “judge not.” We are told to love one another. He gave us clear instructions – the clearest he could give, a rule that supersedes all the laws and the prophets. His golden rule was NOT “go tell people how bad they are and judge them as unworthy to be Christians. That rule was to love one another as he has loved us. Remember – “The greatest of these is love.” To be a Christian is to spread love – that is the light and law of Jesus. If you are spreading judgement and hate, you are not following Christ.

  7. Ever open flood gates? What comes next? Try pedophila, polygamy, polygyny, polyamory, incest, bestiality, etc. Ever counseled adults who were sexually abused as children? See what that does to earning a living, to drug and alcohol abuse, and many other problems.

    • If you want to equate a human being having sex with an animal or someone victimizing a child, with two consenting adults who share a relationship which yields love, trust, affection, companionship, fidelity, laughter—that speaks more about your heart.

      • Dear Sir: Your willingness to ignore the statements of our Lord Jesus Christ on fornication and to equate fallen, sexual attraction with love while judging me without knowing where I am coming from is remarkable. Please note that I have been a LPC, minister, etc., counseling people who had suffered molestation, had had their lives ruined in the struggle with sexual identity. You are also ignoring the fact that the Pedophiles are lined up right behind the homosexuals, seeking legal approval of their practices (although I doubt that the children care for it). The signs of Nambla are a case in point. Already Pedophilia has been dropped from consideration as a mental disorder. And then there are those who advocate for incest. As to hate, etc., for the practitioners of what you advocate, I do not. Grief is what I feel, sorrow at what they have lost and what they have missed.

        • Aww.. The Dr. is afraid of legalized incest? Tell me again how we had Adam, Eve, and…boom – humanity. No matter what version of creation you want to believe, it all began with a little family bump and grind, you offspring of incest. 🙂 Enjoy that ministry. I can’t imagine others enjoying it with you.

    • I love how you marginalized all children who were abused into a box that basically says, if you were abused as a child, then you are going to have a terrible life later on. How dare you……..how dare you speak such awful things about people you don’t even know, and marginalize their self worth and their worth to society. Many people have been abused as children, as teenagers, and as adults and despite awful things happening to them, they want nothing more than someone to say “thank you for sharing your pain with me, I appreciate your trust in me” so that they can move on with their lives to something bigger and better.

      Being sexually abused does not make you a stronger person, nor does it make you a survivor, it makes you a person who experienced a tragic event in your life that forever changes you. It does not make everyone crippled, or broken, and some it does leave crippled or broken, everyone responds different to abuse. I would be horrified to learn that you are an abuse counselor with an attitude like that. I hope you take a firm look at yourself in the mirror and realize that you are basically turning real people who have experienced real trauma into non-functioning versions of themselves that are now a drain on society.

      It would probably surprise you to know that 30-40 people very close to me suffered traumatic abuse as children that was of the sexual nature, are fully functioning outstanding members of society! One of them has PhD in Engineering and is a mother of 3 beautiful children and helps train therapy dogs on the side for people who suffer from PTSD and the other is a mid ranking Officer in the Army who is Ranger qualified, and raising a family of beautiful children, 2 girls 1 boy, with his gorgeous wife and speaks openly about his experiences to service members that are suffering from depression and anxiety in an effort to help people.

      Are they exceptions to the rule, I truly do not think so, nor do I think it, almost every person I know who has been open and honest about this issue is a functioning member of society that lives a happy and fulfilling life. They are kinder, and more compassionate than most people, and would never say such narrow minded things. Are there people that this does affect and the never recover, of course, and they are just as strong as the people I know, they are just as worthwhile and they don’t want your pity, they are doing what they can to show you, I need help, I am in pain, I don’t know how to express myself, I have yet to feel comfortable enough to share my pain with someone so that I may heal. I hope you can look at yourself in the mirror and honestly re-evaluate the man you see standing there.

    • Polygyny, like polyandry, is a form of polygamy. The fact that you list polygyny separately from polygamy suggests you don’t know what it is. It’s also irrelevant to this discussion. Same-sex marriage is monogamous.
      The fact that you could equate two adults in a loving, monogamous, committed relationship to pedophilia, incest and bestiality suggests some disturbance in your thinking. You might want to seek counseling yourself to see why you think there’s some equivalence.

    • Dr James,
      I have indeed opened floodgates to people born with incurable diseases and the blind and the emotionally ill. It has made no difference to the people with pedophilia and in case you are ignorant of this fact gender differences have nothing to do with pedophilia since it is practiced by supposed straight people often operating as married or celibate priests and the like. Pedophilia like addiction is not related to gender preferences but to humans who are flawed. Sadly you are one of those as am I for judging you. God made us all and his ways are mysterious. Would you cast out those stricken from birth with disfiguring, debilitating diseases in front of their families? If not why cast out humans who are perfectly formed but on a different point on the gender continuum line. Shame on you for your righteousness and pride as these too are sins. If you do not set them aside you will find yourself judged the the most mighty judge of all when death calls you.

    • You need to lose the Dr. in front of your name. If you were actually a doctor, especially one that’s related to the human mind, you would know that those things have ZERO link between homosexuality. Try again, the old hackneyed ‘arguments’ are old.

    • Your argument is based on a logical fallacy. You say that homosexuality eventually leads to pedophilia and then you make an argument against pedophilia in order to prove your point about homosexuality. To resort to arguing a slippery slope, only shows that you don’t have the ability to articulate a valid argument against homosexual unions.

  8. John, stop presuming to say that God can’t fix the problem of SSA. To take that view is to have a very low view of the healing that is possible through the work of the Holy Spirit.

    And please remove stupid pictures like the one above, which is so obviously wrong. It doesn’t help the discussion one bit.

    We all know that there is lots of hatred in the name of Jesus. There’s nothing new about that, ask any Jew!

    The truth is that Christians do receive help from the Lord, regarding SSA. They are definitely in the minority in the Church, but to take the position that they do not exist is simply wrong and dishonest.

    The testimonies are there, and my own life is one of them

    Thank you. Chris

    • There’s a difference between saying God “can” do something and saying God most definitely “will” do something.

      Just because God has presumably done something for one person doesn’t mean He will do so for anyone else.

    • I don’t know your own testimony and I won’t comment on that since I don’t know you or your heart, but I will tell you what I have seen that has given me pause,

      First off, bisexuality exists. Although once cannot often control who they fall for, there are many people who are attracted to both men and women, probably more than are attracted to one or the other. Since there is still a very problematic stigma in the gay community toward bisexual people (I have heard understandable reasons for it, but I still don’t like it), there is pressure to choose. It is easy to identify as gay for a while, but then claim God healing when there is attraction to a woman, when in reality it is bisexuality.

      Plus, for every testimony I have seen of someone who has over overcome SSA, I’ve heard 10-20 of closeted gays in the church who prayed for years to be healed and nothing happened. So either God picks a few people at random to heal and leave the rest at the mercy of their usually homophobic churches, or there was nothing to heal.

      The clincher, though, is Exodus Ministries. The man who led it (I forget his name at the moment) said in an interview right before he closed down the ministry that somewhere around 95 percent of the people he saw were not cured. A little while later, he shut down his ministry and wrote a letter of apology to the LGBT community for all the pain he caused them. Yes, he is a gay man who remained married to his wife, but many of the men who started ministry with him are now in relationships with other men, and have since said the goal of the ministry is not feasible.

      I won’t get into all the scientific evidence about sexual orientation since we are mainly focused on testimonies right now, but all of that was much of what drove me into the “there is nothing to heal” camp.

    • If you are genuinely healed of SSA and you were genuinely gay (sorry to be such a doubting Thomas on this), I would love to know the details of your “healing”. Is there a link to a testimony somewhere? I have battled SSA all my life and given up the struggle, believing the only honest thing to do is to own up to it and get on with it. I have yet to meet anyone who has been “healed”. The only cases I know are people like me who have lived a closeted life pretending to be straight, but they not really.

    • Hi Chris! (First thing first: This question comes out of honest curiosity and is not intended to be read in any other tone). Now, regarding your comment, are you saying that you are completely free from same-sex attraction? Not in a way of the Holy Spirit helping you with self-control, but in the way that you once were attracted to men and then now you are not attracted to men in any way. Is that correct?

    • Why do you think being attracted to the same sex is a problem? When you begin from a flawed premise, any conclusion you reach will be equally flawed. It’s not a problem… unless you make it one. How long did it take for other people to convince you there was something wrong with you, to make you hate who you were, to make you try to deny the way you were created? You were NOT born hating yourself or thinking you were somehow flawed. Someone else taught you that. But the word of God says you are fearfully and wonderfully made, and that the thing that is formed should not be questioning “Why did you make me this way?” You were made the way God wanted you to be.
      I refuse to believe God turned you from homosexual to heterosexual, regardless of what you are actually doing. If you were sexually attracted to the same sex before, you are now. God doesn’t fix what isn’t broken, no matter how much you want Him to.

      Every in-depth interview with a supposed ex-gay turns up problems with the story. Some were never gay to begin with. Others are simply bisexual. Some are living a lie. But people who were truly homosexual, attracted only to the same sex, with no attraction to the opposite sex, who are now heterosexual, only attracted to the opposite sex, with no attraction to the same sex? No such thing.

    • No one doubts that God has the power to do anything He desires. I guess He just does not desire to stop SSA in most cases or He would be doing it. I would have to read the details of your particular case and see what they might be. Sounds fishy to me. What say I send you a few photographs of naked men about 20 years old and see if your skin tingles a little and your dick gets hard?

      • Of course, we will need you to take your clothes off, hook you up to some sensory equipment, and we will have to identify two objective third party people as witnesses to what happens.

    • First off, if you personally believe that being gay is a problem for you, and that God has corrected it, then that’s wonderful for you. But for every gay person who has a story like yours, there are probably fifty or a hundred (at least) who God hasn’t changed.

      Just because you personally have been attracted to the same sex and aren’t anymore doesn’t mean that this is at all likely to happen for other people. If “praying away the gay” were so successful, Exodus International wouldn’t have apologized and closed down, after admitting that they were doing more harm than good and that they could not change anyone’s orientation.

      Delineating what God “can” do is way above my paygrade, but from what God actually *does,* changing people’s orientation seems to be vanishingly rare. Especially when you consider that many people who describe their orientation as changed don’t necessarily mean that they’re entirely straight, only that their attraction to people of the same sex has lessened, or they’ve developed at least some attraction to the opposite sex that they didn’t have or weren’t aware of before. *And* that in churches that pressure gay people to “change,” it’s to be expected that some will either flat-out lie as self-protection or convince themselves of a change that hasn’t actually happened. (For that matter, some people are bi. Being attracted to and having a healthy relationship with someone of the opposite sex doesn’t necessarily make one straight.)

      For an awfully long time in the church, your story was preached as the only possible story for gay Christians, and a lot of harm was done as a result of it. An awful lot of people were driven to despair and even suicide when their orientation didn’t change. An awful lot of people got married and had kids, in the hopes that it would make them straight, only to do horrible harm to their spouses and children by living a lie, and wrecking their trust completely when the truth came out.

      So while I know it hurts to have your story minimized or discounted, it’s a story that’s also done a lot of harm by being pushed as *the* right answer, and LGB people have a right to be wary of it.

  9. Now John, I think this post is an exaggeration. Using a Westboro picture as an example of how most Christians feel, is pure hyperbole. I have never heard a Christian say they hate homosexuals. Do I disagree on their stance against homosexuality? Absolutely. I also understand their position. The bible, in my opinion, seems pretty clear in its position on the matter (which is another reason why I’m not so sure that it’s the “infallible word of God” anymore). This is why I understand their position on this matter.

    • Dear jaz, it is indeed still the infallible word of God, but no life is ever changed by rules. God wrote his book to demonstrate to us the need of a Saviour. To say that redemption from SSA is not possible is to say that God does not desire to bring healing to us.
      The entire purpose of God’s laws is to reveal the gulf that exists between ourselves and the nature of God. We are then called to cry out to God to helpus, not to change his laws. I believe that SSA is one of the most deeply embedded hooks of the enemy that a human being can ever experience. As one who has come through that battle, I am fully persuaded that only through a deep work of the Holy Spirit is long-term and permanent change possible. Very, very difficult IMHO, but nonetheless possible.
      What really gets up my nose, as one who has fought long and hard to enter the genuine freedom that the Gospel offers, is to have Christians dogmatically declare that, base on the number of people who have NOT experienced healing in this area, such healing is impossible. That is a lie which is a slap in the face for all those brothers and sisters who never gave up pushing in to receive their inheritance.
      Therefore anyone who cares to spit in my face for posting these remarks, by all means carry on. I know what Christ has given me, genuine freedom in my sexuality. I have no desire whatsoever to return to what I once was.

      • So, how long have you been bisexual Chris? It is pretty doggone easy to be miraculously healed when you choose to go after women and shut down the other 50 percent. That is not healing by God. it is simple human personal choice, which you choose to define as healing. Would you like to take the hard dick test?

      • Chris,
        Sorry for taking so long to respond. My laptop kept crashing. I think you and the LGBTQ community are the only ones with the right to an opinion on this issue. You have walked down this road. Most of us commenting on this post have not. We like to talk like we know what it’s like, but we don’t. I may disagree with you on this matter, but I have nothing but respect for you.
        My only question is, what do you say to other gay Christians who like you have prayed, sometimes for years, and been unable to change their sexual orientation?

    • I hear Christians everyday say they hate homosexuals, and find them to be vile and disgusting. These are not westboro baptists, they are regular Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Protestants, pick a religion, pick a sect and insert in here to continue the sentence….I can’t tell you how many of my christian friends I hear recently screaming their heads off on social media and in person about how gay is the way to hell. How many of them I have heard utter the words, I wouldn’t know what to do if my child was gay, I wouldn’t be able to relate to them, I wouldn’t be able to be their parent….it’s disturbing to me and friendships have ended this year due to this. The infallible word of God, was written….2000 approximate years ago….and interpreted by the men of God, and then written down by Men of God, and then translated by other Men of God, and then translated again and again and again by other “men of God”…..could we stop being “blind believers’ and can we ask the hard questions and think for ourselves…..please…2000 years ago, same sex relationships did not produce children and did not contribute to the population, that often had a birth survival rate of less than 20%. There are many historical anthropological findings that back up the idea of same sex parenting throughout the time line of humanities existence. When parents did not return from hunting, or died from disease children were taken in by the community in forms of early “adoption”, as grandparents did not really exists due to life expediencies, at times these children were given to two mothers or two fathers who did not have children to raise. Context, Context, Context….dare I say it again, Context is Key.

      Don’t close your eyes to the fact that a large portion of Christianity is turning a blind eye to the issues that the LGBT community is going through, as John has also written about, it does nothing but drive our brothers and sisters in Christ away from the church. We are called to love, and those that are screaming their hate for the LGBT community in ways that are not constructive, but are hurtful and demeaning, are doing nothing to spread the love of Jesus Christ to others. Seriously reverse the roles in your head for one moment and come down the rabbit hole with me. Heterosexuality is now what is not ok in mainstream society, and a christian who you have seen posting things like I don’t agree with heterosexuality, it’s a sin, but I love the sinner and hate the sin so come join me for church on Sunday, would you honestly go? This love the sinner and hate the sin line is also just disrespectful. You have probably heard that line, but since you personally haven’t heard a christian spouting hate you can’t believe it is happening, to good honest, hardworking people…who happen to sexually be attracted to the same person. I am tired of hearing I haven’t heard this, so it isn’t happening line. I hear it every single day, so please stop kidding yourself and step outside your shell.

    • Ive never really heard many Christians say outright they hate the LGBT community either (although I have heard some say that), and say much the same thing you said. I always say that I don’t know a person’s heart, so I can’t make a judgment if they are telling the truth, and I believe at the very least they don’t WANT to hurt people. I am also not LGBT, however, and what I hear from them is often this: Actions speak louder than words. Christians claim love toward the LGBT person, yet most who claim this continue to use the word “lifestyle” despite being told how offensive it is, opposing laws that will protect the physical safety and livelihood of the LGBT community in ways that have nothing to do with their “sin” (anti-hate crimes legislation, job protections, anti-bullying laws, etc), continued spreading of rhetoric that marginalized their community (which to me is no different than advocating violence outright), and worse, saying the best way they can love them is to correct them (which is basically treating a grown adult like a petulant five year-old). And all that is just scratching the surface. The homelessness rates and the suicide rates clearly show that the actions of the church are still causing real and life-threatening pain. Even if the intention is not to hurt people, the harm is still there, which is why no matter how much nice language is used paint the turd, the LGBT community is still going to call it a turd.

    • I guess it depends on where you went to church. I never went to Westboro, but I heard the hatred right at home in the church I attended as a teenage. I heard preachers spewing hatred and lies about gay people, some with obvious venom in their hearts. I have seen gay people thrown out of churches, even gay people who were trying to become straight (as if that were possible), ostracized, subjected to deliverances/exorcisms, blackmailed, and even encouraged to commit suicide… all by people who claimed to be good Christians. Would they admit to hating gay people? A few might, but most would deny it… while their own actions proved that they did indeed hate.

    • Jazmin, I disagree with you about the Bible, but I respect that unlike the author of this sewage post, you are capable of rational thought on the topic.

    • I’ve heard plenty say they do hate them – so one anecdote doesn’t make the story. It’s time to stop attacking people that are different than oneself. I’m tired of ‘people of God’ defending discrimination and hate.

    • The bible, in my opinion, seems pretty clear in its position on the matter (which is another reason why I’m not so sure that it’s the “infallible word of God” anymore).
      So, it appears to me that you would believe the Bible if it would just say what you would like for it to say. I think that the Westboro crowd have left their Christianity behind. God does not hate us, He hates sin, but He grieves over each of us when we sin and longs for us to return to Him

    • I agree Jaz. Folks at Westboro don’t speak for the rest of us. If someone who professes to be Christian states that he/she hates gay people, I immediately question that person’s Christianity. Certainly I question the person’s understanding of Christ. We are called to love everyone. I might not like everyone, but I must love everyone and forgive those who have wronged me. Attitudes of hate toward others contradicts Christ’s teachings. Why can’t we all just get along?

    • I think the picture emphasizes the point. Mainstream non-Christian America calls that image to kind when they think of Christianity. Why? Because you’re doing nothing to change that perception. “We’re not all that way”. Lame excuse. Prove it. And don’t blame “the liberal media”. With all the focus on you now, do something great now that shows what Christ called you to do and folks will take notice. Excellent article.

      • They do not denounce it because they really are that way. They see the Westboro people as allies who share their views. They would love to be the same way as the Westboro people and their hearts are in alignment with it—they are just too chicken shit to step out of their wing tips, Prada, and BMWs to admit it because they see the Westboro people as white trash.

  10. I agree if this is addressed to people who are angry or hateful toward gays. However, I believe most of us are just sad and hurting for them. Given that, I would content that it is our responsibility to speak out against this sin. I love them too much not to. I’m a bit weary of Christians being the bad ones in this narrative. I get what you are saying, but biblical balance calls us to love enough to hate the destiny of those who are captive to sin and love enough to scream in to their rescue. The issue is a depraved heart. People are homosexual because they are by nature sinners. People struggle with lust because they are by nature sinners. Alcoholics struggle because they are by nature sinners. When we confront the symptoms, in this case homosexuality, we are exposing the corruption of the whole man. True, changing someone’s gender struggle is not my business, but it is the business of the gospel, and the gospel is my business. Thank you though for risking addressing these tough issues. Thought provoking for sure. Stay encouraged!

  11. Hi John,

    This is another great article. I’m going to share it next week on Twitter and hope more people will enjoy your insights.

    Here is short interview with Dr. Josh Packard. He is a sociologist who has conducted ground breaking research on the vast number of people who have left the church. You might find him helpful. I certainly have!

    http://theunlikelypreacher.com/uncategorized/done-and-almost-done-renewed-hope-for-the-church

    Take care,

    Patrick

    >

  12. The Westboro Baptist Church pictured is no more Christian than the KKK who also claims to be a “Christian” group! One of the most powerful amicus briefs filed in the SCOTUS cas for marriage equality (Obergefell vs. Hodges) was signed by over 2,000 people of faith – including clergy and seminary professors from the Episcopal Church, United Church of Christ, Lutheran Church, and Quakers. Stop painting all Christians as anti-gay. Most are doing their best to make the differences you state … because of Jesus.

  13. The guy issue is a secular issue, not a religious or spiritual issue and for me your position is further proof that secularism has taken over religion. The pulling away from the church and the onset of secularism began during the middle ages as a revolt against the totalitarian church and it persists to this day. You are correct, we can’t change the sexual nature of a fellow human but, as with ourselves, we can ask that gays be respectful of traditions and not tread on others. What does history tell us about what happens when homosexuality becomes a common practice in a culture? As one of your readers said, it can and it does result is an increase in pedophilia. Look at the Roman Empire. Not only was homosexuality rampant but so was pedophilia. Look at the Catholic Church and its history of pedophilia. We all want people to be just like us. We want everyone to be democrats or republicans, Christians or Muslims, and straight or gay. Over the coming years, there will be a constant pecking to give more rights to guys but what happens when a culture collapses and the blame game is put into play? Do I need to say more? As believers in Jesus we are asked to love all of mankind but does that include repeating the mistakes of the past over and over again? Being kind and loving is essential to the uplifting of our souls but social and economic discipline is also essential and we seem to be failing at both of those right now. The guy issue is a secular issue, not a religious or spiritual issue and for me your position is further proof that secularism has taken over religion. The pulling away from the church and the onset of secularism began during the middle ages as a revolt against the totalitarian church and it persists to this day. You are correct, we can’t change the sexual nature of a fellow human but, as with ourselves, we can ask that gays be respectful of traditions and not tread on others. What does history tell us about what happens when homosexuality becomes a common practice in a culture? As one of your readers said, it can and it does result is an increase in pedophile. Look at the Roman Empire. Not only was homosexuality rampant but so was pedophile. Look at the Catholic Church and its history of pedophile. We all want people to be just like us. We want everyone to be democrats or republicans, Christians or Muslims, and straight or gay. Over the coming years, there will be a constant pecking to give more rights to guys but what happens when a culture collapses and the blame game is put into play? Do I need to say more? As believers in Jesus we are asked to love all of mankind but does that include repeating the mistakes of the past over and over again? Being kind and loving is essential to the uplifting of our souls but social and economic discipline is also essential and we seem to be failing at both of those right now.

    • History lesson: Both Greece and Rome considered exclusive homosexuality incorrect. It was not rampant. But they also believed exclusive heterosexuality was wrong. They expected everyone to behave in a way we would consider bisexual. This custom grew out of their religion, specifically their creation story, and had very specific rules. It did not include same-sex marriage or life-long homosexual relationships. Pederasty was an accepted part of Greek and Roman life for centuries. This was considered part of a teenage boy’s education. It did not cause either empire to fall. Greek fell ONLY because a stronger empire arose, that being Rome. And Rome didn’t fall until AFTER they embraced Christianity and had abolished pederasty and the bisexual lifestyle.
      At no time in history has acceptance of homosexuality caused an increase in pedophilia. That’s not even remotely true. Same-sex marriage existed, and was accepted, in most of the world prior to European colonization. This includes North America, where it existed for thousands of years. But the ONLY culture that had a pederast custom like Greece and Rome was feudal Japan, among the Samurai.

    • You do repeat yourself ad nauseum! Or something like that. I pity you that you not gay, as it would give you some understanding of the struggles they go through, but I can assure you that no gay is interested in your conversion, really!

  14. Hey John! Great article as usual, although my one gripe is that you used a Westboro picture as an example. They are definitely the most recognizable homophobes in the world, but they seem to be dying out and have little influence. However, the main place I am seeing them mentioned nowadays is with Christian non-affirming people use them as a comparison, saying they are not homophobic because Westboro exists. Elevating Westboro as the image of homophobia is problematic because it allows those with the most dangerous (read, subtle) homophobia to psychologically pat itself on the back while they have far worse and far-reaching effects on the LGBT community. What it looks like to hate the LGBT community does not involve signs and slurs (although they also contribute), it involves everyday people continuing to chose language and borderline conspiracy theories that marginalize the LGBT community and supporting policies that continue to harm the lives and livelihoods of real people right now.

    Yes, I know I just went on a long rant about the picture you used rather than the meat of the article (mainly because the article was so on point), but as a visual learner, pictures leave the most stark impression with me, and tend to be the thing I focus on. This is true for many others, too.

  15. There is not another Christian church anywhere in America that embraces the teachings of the Westboro group. Their teachings are indeed heretical and have only tenuous connection to the Christian faith and yet you use them as representing the body of Christ? That’s called projecting. If you’re on the hunt for bigots, I suggest you spend more time looking in your mirror.

  16. Actually I’m pretty sure homoaexual sex is a sin when it’s between two natural born heteros…..okay?
    Also if you wanna get all nit picky about it I do believe the bible references sex between a man and his male slave and it’s not a sin…..say whaaaat? And again I’m sure there just might be references to men who can’t get woman pregnant so they aren’t men. You Christians are kinda making this shit up for any man to have sex with any man and get away with it as long as it’s not with thy equal neighbor, …crappy religion with castes , get the fuck out of America supporting castes and saying you a red white and bluesie. …got it? Even Christians don’t even know the rules when they can go down on that little hot piece of man candy lol…aND trust me I’m a trans woman , ladies your husband’s they do me they kiss me here and ( blushes ) here . So I don’t have to tell you stuck up wound up dry tight wanna be Christians to kiss my a@@…lol you already did,. Now let’s get to why you think I’M a sin also .,,this is the two phrases he the Christians bigots want you to know

    For there are eunuchs born unto mothers , and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by man, and eunuchs who are made eunuchs by the self . He who shall receive it , let him revive for the sake of kingdom or some shit like that ( eunuch is saris the ancient term ie. Boy lives like girl )
    Breakdown! !!!
    All ttannins are born from mothers womb
    Ttannins can be made ( surgery )
    Make yourself a tranny ( hormones ) all trans are born duuuuh they are naturally trans god don’t make mistakes riiiight? And liars don’t go to heaven yes? And not living as a woman is a lie so let them transition duuuh
    And than followed by and they brought all the children to Jesus and crew to lay hands on the children and he rebuked them saying you should be ashamed of yourselves they are born like that !!!!
    ( your all going to hell for conversion therapy ) and also you denied gods great plan and baatardized his word and you also broke some pretty serious rules
    Commandment 1
    Commandment 2
    You also were complicit in murder by not taking in anyone who’s hungry and you step over them daily begging .,,,.I am real Christian
    I am a tans prostitute and I am getting to your promised land and you will answer for your sins and they are many

  17. I actually think it is appropriate—and let me tell you why.

    Jesus said that the key thing is not what people say—but rather what they do. The Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical party line (like the old Communist Party line) is to claim that they love homosexuals—I mean just love them to death like Jesus. But the things they DO with regard to gay people are quite different. American fundies in general are extremely angry at gay people these days—their kids pick up fast on the notion that it is okay to bully gay kids at school—and they do it. Some fundie Christian is always trying to get a gay public school teacher fired from their job simply because they are gay. A heavy fundie movement is now underway to promote discrimination against gay people in normal American social discourse. It is heading in the direction of “No, I will not allow gay people to eat in my restaurant.” No, I will not sell groceries to gay people.” And anti-gay rhetoric and the actions that accompany it—like that of the Family Research Council—are just as outrageous as anything done by Westboro Baptist Church—and they claim to speak and do on behalf of all Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals here in the United States. Then there are the Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals who are—right this minute in Africa—going around to various governments and convincing them—in the name of Jesus—to pass laws requiring long prisons sentences and the death penalty for all gay people in their countries. And these countries are actually passing these laws and enforcing them. In other words, they are doing the things over there that they and their congregations would like to do here—but they cannot get away with doing here—Yet.

    Read the story about Julius Streicher. He was sentenced to hang because the international tribunal at Nuremberg recognized that his anti-Jewish rhetoric on broadcast and written media was so vicious that it crossed the line into “DOING.” Sometimes rhetoric ceases to just be just words and becomes a DO. Poor old Julius. The universe was apparently more than just a little pissed at him. When he dropped through the gallows hole, the rope failed to break his neck—so he danced around on the end of his rope enduring a slow and painful death by neck stretch and suffocation—just desserts for the 6,000,000 dead Jews and the people millions of people he had egged on to approve actually killing them. He also had the lowest measured IQ of all the Nazi leaders and accomplices that they tried at Nuremberg—suggesting that people like him are not very bright.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

  18. I marched in the Austin Gay Pride Parade Saturday night with my church group. The crowd was estimated at 150,000. I saw a young woman in tears as our group passed. I remember those emotions well the first time I saw a church group in a gay pride parade almost 30 years ago. Don’t think for a second that people are not aching for Christians to say, “God loves you just the way you are and so do I”.

  19. There is nothing wrong with multi-tasking. I agree with a ministry addressing those needs that Jesus called us to, and you do a good job of listing them. I also agree to what you imply, that being that Jesus never called us to make our ministry one of converting gays from being gay.

    The ministry to which we are called is to evangelize His Word and I believe that if done correctly, that means ministry to an audience that knows no race, creed, color, demographic, economic or gender boundary. When we do that, perhaps those in need will see that they want what we have found peaceful, and that is a heart developed by Christ.

    If, however, we are asked how God feels about homosexuality, then we should offer what they consider to be the ugly truth, if it will serve the ministry at that time and in those circumstances. God doesn’t want that for them, any more than he wants me to be a hypocrite about it. We shouldn’t make what we believe to be sin the basis for our ministry, because that is not a loving ministry. We should arm ourselves with the Truth, however, because luke-warm is a sinner’s ministry.

    • Let me guess. You like “evangelism” because it is a long word that makes what you do sound technical and important. You can make it even longer by using it as an adjective: “Evangelistical.” Taking the Bible as a whole, I refuse to believe that the Christian faith in its entirety is all about “evangelism” and nothing else. This is where Christian fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism have completely jumped the Christian tracks and train wrecked.

      I see the Christian faith as coming to God in love to reconcile.

      You see it as simply an emergency management initiative to save people from Hell—and nothing else.

      Of course, I would not expect you to be able to transcend your ignorant upbringing.

  20. Hmmmm….this is the first of your blogs I’ve ever read, and you lost me with the salutation. “Christian”. With one word you made it clear that you lumped us all together….we all think, feel and believe the same. Ridiculous, and not worth reading.

    • That’s fine, Leigh. If you aren’t capable of reading past the first word and can’t see that this clearly applies to elect number of Christians, I can’t help you. Sorry.

      • Two days ago I called you out on the bigotry of trying to lump all Christians together with the heretical Westboro bunch. It’s still “awaiting moderation”. How typical of the liberal mid that it can’t tolerate dissent from its totalitarian agenda. Yesterday we discovered that Christianity has been criminalized, but that’s OK with you since we should just ignore the teachings you don’t feel like following. Pathetic.

        • John, I work two jobs in addition to the online ministry, have two children and a wife to care for, and I approve comments to prevent abusive language and content.

          Relax.

          (And thanks for the name-calling. It suits you well.)

  21. You’re painting with a pretty broad brush. In my experience, the Christian who spends all of his or her time on the homosexual topic is in a very small minority. Most Christians will, however, when confronted by the topic give their opinion based on what the Bible teaches.

    I do believe that the Bible is the infallible, inspired Word of God, so I believe that homosexuality is wrong. But I spend almost no time talking about it. I talk about the love of God and the fact that He wants a relationship with each of us. I believe that once the relationship is begun, it is up to the Holy Spirit to begin the work of transforming us into the person He wants us to be.

    The broad brush approach you take in this article only serves to reinforce the thought that all Christians lie awake at night worrying about the “Gay problem”. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  22. As a Minister, I agree with the majority of your comments. There is a lot that the church can fix..but the homosexuality, is not one of them. I do, however, find offense in your generalization of all Christians being anti-gay.

  23. “For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it—though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.”
    ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:8-10‬ ‭ESV‬‬
    http://bible.com/59/2co.7.8-10.esv

    I am sure that many “Christians” who are worked up and speaking out against homosexuality aren’t doing it out of love nor are they equally engaged in other acts of mercy that the Lord Jesus called his people too. Calling people to repentance because they are living sinfully, however, is not unloving. Jesus and in many places in the New Testament calls Christians to rebuke sinful behavior. Jesus tells us it’s better to gouge out our eye and spare ourselves the temptation of lust than to go to hell because we refused to resist those temptations.
    If this issue is a matter of an eternity in hell vs an eternity of joy in the savior Jesus Christ then the most loving thing I can do for anyone is to call sin sin. And one of the most evil things I could do is to pretend it doesn’t matter and “love” people all the way to the gates of hell.

    As a father to my children and as a Elder in my church I am charged with protecting my family and my church from heresy and attempts by the devil to pollute the church with sin and behaviors that are dishonoring to Jesus Christ and the Gospel. One way I do that is to teach my children and the church what the bible says about sin and the Gospel. I have to call it like I see it. I’m not only speaking of homosexuality here; this is any number of issues that our culture faces.

    I do not claim to be outside the grace of the gospel. As no Christian is. Temptation to sin is a battle all chistians must fight. I am a heterosexual married man and I am tempted to lust after women who aren’t my wife. Is that sinful? No it is a result of my sin nature but it isn’t sinful unless I act upon it. We know this because Jesus was tempted and yet the bible tells us he never sinned.

    So my message is this. Homosexual activities and lifestyles are I believe sinful activities according to scripture. If I am right then the loving thing to do for my family, my church, and those who struggle with homosexual temptation is to say practicing homosexuality is an abomination to God and for those who claim to be Christian it is an affront to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    At this point I want to say that I don’t know what it is like to struggle with a desire that is so seemingly natural and isn’t ok in any circumstance. I realize that I can’t understand that struggle. The bible doesn’t leave us any room to say “well knowingly continuing in sin was ok because it was really hard not to. It would be unloving for God to cause me to suffer that way so he will understand. Besides he made me this way.”

    I earnestly mean everything I’ve said here to be the truth in Love.

    I realize that I will get a lot of push back on many of the points I’ve made here. I would be happy to have a dialog with anyone who reads this. I firmly believe I can defend my position from the bible. I’ll end by saying that the Gospel will cover a multitude of sins and the only hope any of us has is to cast ourselves upon the mercy and work of Jesus Christ. He is bigger than any sin He love us more than we can imagine.

    • “Jesus tells us it’s better to gouge out our eye and spare ourselves the temptation of lust than to go to hell because we refused to resist those temptations.”

      Wrong!!!!!!! Jesus told this to a bunch of ancient Jews about 2,000 years ago—Jews who were still under the Old Testament law and a now obsolete covenant that never has, does not now, and never will apply to any gentile like you.

      You make the typical Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical mistake of believing that the ancient writers wrote every word in the BIble personally as a direct message to you in our time and place. Jesus was speaking to people long ago—not you.

  24. What self-righteous, pompous rubbish! So typical and predictable to once again hear all about homosexuals wearing their deviance like a crown. Christians have been busy and most of us are not angry and most of us don’t make the headlines. We are too busy holding down jobs, taking care of our families and minding our own business – we feel sorry for homosexuals. It is homosexuals who want to rewrite definitions and warp society to fit their emotional wasteland. They have rejected their true identity and projected that rejection onto society as a whole. Christians nor society are their problem or their solution. Their conflict, their wounds reside inside them. I pray for their deliverance from such pain, such emotional schisms that drive people to make such choices as to live in such utter rejection of themselves.

    • I suspect you don’t know any homosexuals. If you did, you might see that they are also busy, not only TRYING to hold down jobs, take care of their families, and mind their own business, but defending themselves from hate and discrimination like yours. They don’t want to rewrite anything. They only want to live peacefully with you without the unfair boot on gay throats that some of you”christians” would like to continue doing. If you knew any homosexuals you’d see how ridiculous it would be to choose to be homosexual. Who would choose to be hated, spat on, discriminated against, ridiculed publicly, and hurt so deeply that some even take their own lives? Quit listening to the mobs and use your brain. It appears you are the angry one. So put down that middle finger. Your prayers are in vain.

    • “We are too busy holding down jobs, taking care of our families and minding our own business.”

      And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the so-called “gay agenda” in a nutshell. We just want to live our lives. We only wind up in headlines when people try to prevent us from doing so, denying us our basic human rights. We’ve finally won the right to marry (restoring to this continent a form of marriage that existed here for thousands of years before European arrival), but in many states, a person can still be refused employment, fired, evicted from or refused rental housing, simply for being gay.

      Bab, you’re part of the problem, not the solution.

    • Your comments reveal that you are like the very people that make the signs displayed in the picture. Do you go to that church? You obviously have no understanding of the gay issue whatsoever and have made no effort to do so at all. You should do so, before you so off-handedly judge and dismiss them.

    • Well said. Also, I do not want any special, accepting treatments in this world because I am heterosexual. Keep it to yourself. Why has this become such a public issue. It is like saying “look at me, look at me I am this way I need this that and the other thing just because” ridiculous.

      • If you were denied basic civil rights because of your heterosexuality, you might complain about it also. The fact is, you don’t have to worry about being denied rights because you are heterosexual because it doesn’t happen. No one denies you the right to marry whom you love, no one bullies you for being heterosexual or denies you a job because of your sexual orientation. It’s privilege for you to ask that we stop fighting for our rights because you already have yours. We just want to exist and have the same rights that heterosexual people claim for themselves. That’s why it’s a public issue.

  25. Following the path of Christ is what makes one Christian. It’s not the label, as we see with those who claim to be Christian but impugn the nature and ways of Christ.

  26. Pingback: Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People… | audio pro Dues (Listening for God)

  27. The problem here is that the Christian way is to “let him live in freedom if he lives like me.” This is not a new concept of the modern Christian conservative movement as this line is from a Jim Croce song dating back to early 1970s. It is the Christian way to not be understanding and to be self absorbed. It was the reason this nation was founded and will continue to be the driving force for much of our political system.

    • I understand you. You probably lost them. Many of them were in my classes back in grade school: “Now Tommy. Please read paragraph one for us out loud.”

      The ca…uh…dog…no…cow…jeeped over the…uh…noon.

  28. I agree with you in terms of the individual homosexual, love them. But we have a big problem there is a movement by the homosexual camp to promote and recruit homosexuality, and your children are at risk of believing this life style is acceptable. So it’s the movement and it’s agenda that is in question, look at there growing numbers, more and more young people are turning in homosexuality as a fad.

    • That’s silly. If you think you could be persuaded into a different sexual orientation by “recruitment”, that’s a you problem.

      Seriously, let’s try to be adults here, John.

    • You’ve been believing anti-gay propaganda. There is no move to recruit, nor is it possible to do so. It is literally impossible to make a straight person gay, just as it is impossible to make a gay person straight. If you read something about gay people on an anti-gay website, or hear it someplace like the 700 club or from the AFA, etc., don’t believe it. These are people who do not know gay people, and who have absolutely no problem inventing and repeating lies. You want to know what gay people are about? Get to know some.

    • You could not be further from the truth in this. Nobody chooses to be gay because it carries with it such pain and stigma. Your fear of being converted is totally unfounded. If the numbers appear to be growing it is only so because more people are being open and honest about their sexuality than before.

    • More young people are becoming less afraid to “own” their sexuality at younger ages( late teens, early 20’s) because of the more public role models that they have, because of the anti-bullying rules at school, because of the gains that older LGBT community members have won in hard fought court cases and because we refused to be cowed into silence like previous generations were. They are not embracing homosexuality as a fad, but they’re not as afraid to come out and say that they’re gay. This does not mean that anyone has been recruiting them, only supporting them and giving these brave young people safe places to be themselves, as God made them, without shame.The statistics on the number of LGBT people in our communities hasn’t risen, it remains@1in 10, but the frightening statistics of abuse, bullying and suicide due to lack of good support systems is also shockingly high. Sadly, much of the rejection and abuse comes from “Christians” and their families who berate and reject LGBT people as less than human, worse sinners than anyone else-equating them with pedophiles and those who practice bestiality, none of which is true.
      Jesus rejected none who came to him and never directed any remarks specifically about homosexuality. Our churches need to be welcoming places where Christ’s love is celebrated so that all His children can do good works together. For anyone who doesn’t personally know any LGBT people, I suggest reaching out to your local chapter of P-FLAG for some perspective. I very much enjoyed this editorial. While I realize that most Christians are not running about waving hate signs, their are many more subtle ways I and my family have been given the cold shoulder; the whispers behind the back, the lack of invitations to the block party or potluck, no one to greet us at church. We know when we’re not wanted, so we don’t worship with you “good Christian folk” in case we might get our gay cooties on you.Having grown up in a church, both of us wanted our children to as well, but we would not expose them to the judgement they faced every time we attended.

    • If you were denied basic civil rights because of your heterosexuality, you might complain about it also. The fact is, you don’t have to worry about being denied rights because you are heterosexual because it doesn’t happen. No one denies you the right to marry whom you love, no one bullies you for being heterosexual or denies you a job because of your sexual orientation. It’s privilege for you to ask that we stop fighting for our rights because you already have yours. We just want to exist and have the same rights that heterosexual people claim for themselves. That’s why it’s a public issue.

  29. Pingback: Rounding up what I missed | Christian on the front line

  30. John, I have read many of your blogs and appreciate your ability to communicate the pain and suffering caused by groups of people who are mean spirited and demonstrate their twisted “Christian” beliefs with contempt and condemnation of people that they do not know or care to know. This judgmental attitude and resulting hateful treatment of others is far from the way Jesus reached out to others. In John 13:34-35 Jesus says “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

    However, after reading many of your blogs I often finish with sadness because the chasm is widening between the groups for which you write. I feel as though your pain and hurt for the gay community has resulted in a very negative generalization of Christians, as penned in your blogs. I doubt this is your intent, but I feel that the continual negativity only promotes more division and distrust between the people to whom you are reaching out. I will say that my eyes and heart have been opened by some of your articles, in addition to discussions with my daughter and friends, by grace-driven sermons and by asking God to change me. “The Church” has certainly been guilty of singling out homosexuality and responding with contempt rather than love. Of course this behavior is wrong and goes against the teaching of Jesus. Of course we are to treat others the way we want to be treated. But, it goes both ways. My prayer is that others will not judge me because I claim to be a Christian. That my beliefs and rights will be respected. That all “Christian” churches will not be judged based on negative past experiences. And that all people will treat each other with love and respect. We must extend the grace and mercy that we want to receive. And let us not judge each other; that is God’s job, not ours. We must all turn the other cheek and respond in love, not hate. And it begins with me! I will try to get to know people who may not be like me, but who are real people with real pain and real feelings….like me, wanting love and to be treated with respect. I want to see people through the compassionate and loving eyes of Jesus and speak the truth in love.. I want to extend grace and mercy to others, as He extends grace and mercy to me. And why do I need to reach out in love? To build relationships that glorify God.

    It all starts with FORGIVENESS. Accepting God’s forgiveness so that I will see my need to forgive others. Forgiving others despite the pain they have caused and/or continue to cause. Forgiving others whether they deserve it or not. Love and compassion toward others will be exhibited when a heart transformation takes place through forgiveness. By understanding what Jesus did for me and for you and for EVERYONE! Because God loves all people. Followers of Christ understand and experience the grace of God by reading His Word, through the teaching and preaching of His Word, and by reaching out in love to other broken people. There are so very many wonderfully imperfect Christians who continue to grow in grace and love each day, who give of themselvess and their resources….and who fail everyday. So many who need to ask others to forgive them for lashing out in ignorance and anger. That certainly includes me! We must forgive ourselves, forgive others and move forward in love. I pray that you, John, will feel the healing hand of grace in your life more each day and that you will show others how to extend that grace to all people…including Christians….through your writing, which is a gift from God. Because it goes both ways.

    Blessings ~ Crys

    • “In John 13:34-35 Jesus says “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

      This brings up a key point. It is obvious to me on numerous counts that most Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals DO NOT do this. They do anything and everything else but this and can be rightly labeled as “Hate, Incorporated.”

      Are they indeed “ONE ANOTHER”? Or are they something else? I think we need to seriously consider that question.

  31. There are many Christians, including me, who are accepting of gays and don’t care about the sexual preferences of others. To address this post to “Christian” is to stereotype all Christians this way is reckless and irresponsible. Would you post to “Muslim” to abhor the torture and barbaric slaughtering of Christians in the name of the Muslim religion? I don’t think so.

    • Well, let me ask you something. All the time, I am seeing American Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals pleading with the U.S. Government to intervene overseas and save Christians from persecution by ISIS and other radical Islamic groups. Trouble is that ISIS and these other Islamic groups are not just persecuting Christians. They are persecuting all sorts of other religious and ethnic groups as well. What about them? When this collective fundie whine goes up, this is what I hear the fundies saying:

      “Please Mr. U.S. Government. Christians are better than all other peoples on Earth. Because they are better, we demand that you intervene In Syria and Iraq and save them all. Fuck everybody else and just save them and them alone because they are the unique and better people God loves more than everyone else on Earth. And while you are doing this special intervention for Christians, can you please make a REALLY BIG PUBLIC DEAL OUT OF IT in the news media and government speeches so it looks to the rest of the American people like we are really important and special—you know—like the government is putting a special stamp of approval on us and our peculiar beliefs—and nobody else. That would really boost our fundie image at home and make it look like the government and us are…you know…married to each other or something.”

      You people should all be ashamed of yourselves!!! Human suffering is human suffering—no matter which religious or ethnic group is being persecuted. Any intervention should be for all persecuted people because Jesus died for everyone and He loves everyone. And you should be even more ashamed of yourselves for framing any such Christian rescue as a publicity stunt to get the U.S. Government to put its own stamp of official approval on your religious group and what it believes? Have you ever thought that this may be why the U.S. Government greets your whines with a deaf ear—because it is so obviously shallow and self-serving?

  32. While most Christians may not identify with WBC and the signs they carry, or say they hate homosexuality, the hate is in the words not spoken; it is in the looks, the cliche phrases, the attitudes, the exclusion.

    John, as usual, you reflect the light and love of Jesus. He loved first. Any one of us who attempts to judge or change an individual before we love, before we attempt to understand or show compassion, is not following Jesus, is not yoked to him, is not listening to his words. His words speak love and light and life, not condemnation.

  33. Funny but I have no idea what you’re talking about . This Christian and his church is doing everything you say we need to be doing. Maybe you’re paying attention to the wrong people. I know of no Christians bashing anyone. The people you are describing are not Christians…at least not any that I know. Pay attention please. The only people you seem to be paying attention to are the vocal few not the real Christians!

    • If the shoe doesn’t fit then it obviously wasn’t directed toward you. It’s great that you don’t know any Christians who are bashing others, but methinks your experience is unusual. I know many. Too many.

  34. Pingback: The Three Ring Circus: Kim Davis’ “Religious Persecution” | Journey On

  35. That article is off in so many ways that I would have to write an essay.

    So, for the sake of space, I’ll just mention a few.

    1) Christians are supposed to teach the nations “all” that Christ commanded. There are 66 books – all interpreting one another – that need to be taught. That includes teaching on sexuality. Speaking against sin is a part of the message. It is not all of the message, but it cannot be neglected.

    2) The coercion on this issue is in the “gay rights” movement attempting to force others to stop saying that what they are doing is sin. It is those who are trying to force everyone else to accept their point of view and actions that have escalated this issue. Christians are right to vocally oppose the enforcement of evil on all of America.

    3) Contrasting speaking out on issues of sexuality with acts-of-kindness to the needy is a false dichotomy. The answer is “both/and.”

    The title itself is a mess. “Bothering” gay people?

    I’m trying to think of a nice way to say “this was total nonsense” but I’m not seeing one other than: this article is total nonsense. I don’t see anything redemptive in here.

    If it had been a call to also focus on all of the other things that God has addressed, I would see the redemption. But it is not that. It is clearly saying that it is grievous to speak out against the sin of same-gender sex.

  36. That article is off in so many ways that I would have to write an essay.

    So, for the sake of space, I’ll just mention a few.

    1) Christians are supposed to teach the nations “all” that Christ commanded. There are 66 books – all interpreting one another – that need to be taught. That includes teaching on sexuality. Speaking against sin is a part of the message. It is not all of the message, but it cannot be neglected.

    2) The coercion on this issue is in the “gay rights” movement attempting to force others to stop saying that what they are doing is sin. It is those who are trying to force everyone else to accept their point of view and actions that have escalated this issue. Christians are right to vocally oppose the enforcement of evil on all of America.

    3) Contrasting speaking out on issues of sexuality with acts-of-kindness to the needy is a false dichotomy. The answer is “both/and.”

    The title itself is a mess. “Bothering” gay people?

    I’m trying to think of a nice way to say “this was total nonsense” but I’m not seeing one other than: this article is total nonsense. I don’t see anything redemptive in here.

    If it had been a call to also focus on all of the other things that God has addressed, I would see the redemption. But it is not that. It is clearly saying that it is grievous to speak out against the sin of same-gender sex.

    • For some reason my comment is duplicated. I am writing this reply under the second comment.

      In case the moderator or site owner wish to delete the duplicate and just leave one copy.

      🙂

    • You are free to believe what you want and say what you want, as long as you are not advocating violence. You are NOT free to make others who believe differently live their lives by your beliefs.

      You seem to labor under the assumption that Christianity as a whole opposes same-sex marriage, or that your understanding of scripture is the only correct one. I submit that you are wrong on both counts. There are Bible-believing Christians who do not believe there is anything wrong with same-sex marriage. How is that possible? I can only answer for myself: I bypass the vernacular translations of the Bible, which only date back about 400 years and which don’t even agree with each other, let alone agree with the Hebrew and Greek texts, and I go directly to those Hebrew and Greek texts. And having 35+ years experience researching those texts, I am confident in stating that they never even directly mention homosexuality itself, and the indirect mention of it is not negative. What some Christians today cling so tenaciously to is not the word of God, but the prejudice of medieval, and modern, translators. Personally, I refuse to trade the pure word of God for the misguided opinions of prejudiced men.

      • I have no intention of “making” anybody live according to any standard. I am committed to speaking truth. I understand that each will make their choice before God and live or die on the consequences of that choice.

        I labor under no assumption that my interpretation of Scripture is infallible. Although, if people never claim anything to be true because they are imperfect than this whole conversation is pointless.

        That point would nullify your attempt to seek truth as well.

        As far as your assertion that the Bible doesn’t teach that same-gender sex is wrong (based on your personal credentials no less), I find that shocking – and that as a person who has been studying the Bible for decades.

        So… Don’t try to “make” me live according to your personal interpretation of the Bible. 🙂

        I am interested in the Heart of God. I am interested in His Truth (neither yours nor mine). I wish to have my mind changed to think His thoughts.

        I don’t believe, even for half a second, that the Bible does anything other than clearly condemn sex between people of the same gender.

        It also very clearly presents marriage as something between a man and a woman.

        • It also very clearly presents marriage as something between a man and a woman.

          Very natural thinking and why gender males cannot see themselves as spiritual women giving birth to Christ in them. All of mankind is God’s woman; i.e., the Bride of Christ.

          Galatians says that in Christ, there is neither male nor female. Show me a believer stuck on genders and sex, and I’ll show you a believer who is not “in Christ.” The good thing is that he continues and love and teach by his Spirit, in his Spirit.

          • Xena, the whole “no male or female” thing isn’t about denying the existence of genders. It has more to do with reconciliation, don’t you think?

            Seeing the genders that God created and seeing the origin of marriage in Genesis as a male-female relationship doesn’t prevent someone from being “in Christ.”

            I stand by this statement: “It also very clearly presents marriage as something between a man and a woman.”

        • Your mind is made up. No one can change it. Not even God, because He won’t force more truth on anyone. Once a person has decided he knows all there is to know on a subject, he has closed himself off to learning more truth… and there is ALWAYS more to learn.

          Just as a side note, you can study a translation of a book from now till kingdom come, and never glean as much from it as you could if you read the original. You are at the mercy of the translators. Any first year Hebrew or Greek student can point out places where scripture was altered to make it support church doctrine. (And if you happen to use the KJV, your New Testament is a translation of a translation of a translation! The so-called Textus Receptus is a Greek translation of a Latin translation of the original Greek, so the KJV NT is an English translation of a Greek translation of a Latin translation of the original Greek.)

          • That is an interesting judgment that you have presumed about me.

            Apparently you ignored this: “I labor under no assumption that my interpretation of Scripture is infallible. Although, if people never claim anything to be true because they are imperfect than this whole conversation is pointless.”

            God can change my mind. I am open to it.

            That doesn’t mean that I find your arguments (or those on your website) persuasive.

            I am also aware that YOUR interpretation of Scripture is not infallible.

            I do my best to submit my thinking to God. I make no claim to be perfect.

            And wouldn’t you know, after all that, I still believe that the Bible is clear about same-gender sex.

            I’ve read some imaginative attempts to get around it, but I still see the clarity of God’s intent in Genesis as well as other places in Scripture.

      • @dover1952

        Am I the “Jon” you are addressing?

        Your comment appears random and unrelated.

        Is it just a cheap dig trying to negate what I am saying without actually dealing with the content?

        That is what it looks like.

        Unless your comment is actually addressed to someone else.

  37. Using a picture of Westboro protesters as a representation of Christians is wrong. I am a retired Army pilot who went to military funerals being protested by these extremely misguided people. They are an offence to both Military families and Christians. Using their picture is deceptive and divisive. You basically did the same thing you have called Christians out on,, being hateful and malicious.

    • Paul Kahler, Westboro Baptist Church may be the extreme end, but what about the Kim Davis’s of the world. Many Christians are good loving people. Many who call themselves Christians are hateful and mean. The loving ones rarely get media attention, while the hateful ones seem to get a huge portion of it. It’s like blaming all Muslims because there are some Crazy Muslims.

      I like this article. It probably won’t get to the people who really need to see it, and if they do, they will discount it, as they discount others so much.

      We do need to chastise our own. They are not allowed to paint the rest of us as mean as they are. They are not more righteous. LOVE is always the answer!

  38. *sigh*
    A thoughtfuI, well written peice and the author gets berated from the peanut gaIIery with the EXACT THING he writes about. So many repIies from peopIe who may not physicaIIy carrying those signs out in the open, but decideIy carry them in their hearts.

  39. Christian, thank you for behaving so well and living your faith.

    There are lots who like to stereotype and demean, because they fear what you have found and embrace. So they use unfair arguments to depict you as intolerant and mean-spirited.

    When the law changed, the fearful wanted you to misbehave. You didn’t. Across the country, almost without exception, millions of you simply went on living your lives well. No name calling, no anger, no protests.

    Yet, Christian, those who fear you still do their best to misrepresent and malign, and they will take the failing of any one of you and exaggerate without limit to do so. Honesty and fairness are not limits in their crusade.

    Well done, Christian. Keep the faith.

  40. Love is obeying God’s commandments (2 John 6), and scripture is replete with commands to rebuke and exhort others to hold to sound doctrine. If you are a pastor Mr. Pavlovitz, you are failing just about the only specific command given to pastors, and that is you must “be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it (Titus 1:9). You are not rebuking others for holding to bad doctrine, you are rebuking Christians for believing good doctrine, doctrines like sexual purity and holiness. You make the excuse that you are rebuking hate, but you have blinded yourself into thinking that all Christians who believe in sexual holiness are like the WBC. You set up a false dichotomy between good doctrine and helping others. Both are necessary, and you purposely emphasize one to the expense of the other. You are part of the problem. You are not concerned with Christian teaching, but with giving yourself a false moral authority by rebuking Christians that are rebuking sin, and rebuking Christians for exhorting people to repent.

    • If you believe that hating, bullying, shunning, and ostracizing people born LGBT and their families is “good Christian doctrine”, you can keep it. I’ll lean on Jesus’ commands to love in Scripture. They are many.

      • Love is obeying God’s commands, and how you can construe sexual holiness to mean hating and bullying people is evidence of your delusion.

        Plus shunning people isn’t always a bad thing. In fact, shunning false believers in commanded in scripture in places like Romans 16:17. Rebuking sin and calling people to repent and believe the Gospel is not hateful. These things are only regarded as hateful by unbelievers.

  41. I find it funny the number of Christians who have left comments taking offense to being lumped into the anti-gay Christians, yet they sit back and watch the vitriol being thrown at the LGBT population and don’t speak out against it. If you don’t want to be lumped into that crowd, then show us that you aren’t. The anti-gay Christians are the ones getting all the air-time, and therefore speaking for the whole church!

    • jdgipsonsf – You hit the nail on the head – the anti-gay Christians you speak of (a miniscule minority in my experience) are the ones that get the most air time, because they fit the characterization of Christians held by the main stream media. Always consider the source. The vast, and I mean vast, majority of Christians I have known (from all over the nation – we move a lot being in the military) acknowledge and respect God’s standards, but show love to the individual. I am strongly pro-traditional marriage, but have worked with many gay men and women in government service and in the community, and have many that call me their friend. They know I don’t share their view on gay marriage, but if you asked them they would tell you that I show them respect and love.

  42. Voicing an opinion, when consistent with the Bible and delivered with love at its core, is the appropriate role of the Christian in society … regardless of who it “bothers”. I don’t disagree that there are plenty of issues in today’s society that offers opportunities for Christians to make a difference, and that we shouldn’t be over-focused on one issue. But just because one issue isn’t politically correct to discuss, doesn’t mean Christians should shy away from it. Mr Pavlovitz, you attempt to stifle speech here with a “move along Christian, nothing to see here”, as if we should take a measurement of the societal wind, instead of the inerrant Word, to form our opinions. Also, I find it reprehensible that you decided to use an image of the Westboro baptist “church” idiots (who all right thinking Christians deplore). They don’t represent me, or anyone I know. That tactic is patently unfair, and you should be ashamed for using it.

    • You don’t really think Westboro is the only church preaching such radical hatred, do you? Granted, not too many are on the streets with picket signs. But the venom still comes across the pulpit in many churches. I’ve heard it many, many times.

      John’s use of a Westboro picture may represent the extreme that people see, but by no means is it an unfair representation. I could tell you stories about things some churches and pastors have done to gay people that would curl your hair. And I can give you the names of way too many of those gay people who are no longer alive to tell about it, driven to suicide by the hatred and condemnation of those who thought themselves qualified to cast the metaphorical stones.

    • You mean: “Voicing an opinion, when consistent with YOUR UNIQUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE and delivered with love…” Oh no. You do not get away with that old fundie two-step here. Christians believe all sorts of conflicting things that they claim come straight from the Bible and that “X” or “Y” understanding of the Bible is the only right and true understanding personally and officially stamped with God’s own seal of approval.

      And John Pavlovitz is not attempting to stifle speech by fundies. I am attempting to stifle hate speech by fundies—and am doing a mighty good job of it if I do say so myself (LOL).

    • Mr Pavlovitz – thanks for taking down the WBC image you previously had attached to this article. It was a reprehensible characterization. The one you replaced it with is only a little better … it is simply wrong. However, it does match your apparent view of Christians as angry, consumed, relentless, myopic, and bitter on this topic. A quick review of your other posts makes me wonder whether you know know any of the type of Christians that you seem bent on calling out. It seems far more likely you have swallowed the media’s central characterization of Christians as narrow minded, bigoted, backward, poorly educated, uncaring and intolerant, and sit cloistered at your computer immersed in this illusion. Come to California, my friend, and attend church with me. You will meet the many good, God fearing, Bible-believing, pro-traditional marriage, sacrificial and kind people who attend with me, who try hard to live daily the instruction to hate the sin (all types), but love the sinner. None of them scream at sinners, for they like me know that we all have fallen short of Jesus’ example. However, being a sinner doesn’t mean you don’t acknowledge, respect, and strive for the standards that God has set for our lives.

      • Hatred is hatred, WT, however it is masked or delivered. Sometimes it is more subtle but there just the same.

        Of course not all Christians are this way, but many are. I see it every day.

        I’ve been a pastor in the local church for 18 years. I have a good vantage point.

      • I especially like your last phrase, “for our lives.” Although, I would be a little more specific and say “our OWN lives.” Seems to be that far too many are far too busy inspecting others’ lives, something I do not every recall Jesus doing 🙂 It is a pity that so many are dirtied by the loud few who are so busy trying to fuss about OTHER peoples’ lives, isn’t it?

  43. I’ve always believed in live and let live. You are not hurting anyone so who cares who you love.

    Your post crystallized something though, and I don’t think you realized it, or at least stopped short of saying it outright. Through the centuries many stupid and hateful things have been done in the name of religion.

    This is actually a modern day Inquisition. Instead of killing people for not converting their religion, they are bullying people for not living up to what they believe is acceptable behavior.

    As you pointed out, causes of love and not lost causes of hate would make the world a better place. Sadly for many, their fear/hatred/ignorance has blinded them. Some of them will always be there. Just as the KKK and Nazi movement are still around today. Luckily, today those are fringe groups and not the views to society in general.

    Over time they will become a fringe group also. Recent events show that a majority of modern society are with you. How else would a minority finally gain equal marriage recognition?

    You have struggled for a long time and still have some battles ahead of you, but this is a war you will win.

    • It is a war he and Jesus will win. Now, would anyone like to take bets on whether Jesus one day casts the fundies into the Lake of Fire because they don’t look, speak, or behave anything like Jesus? I always bring this up because it scares them to death. They never consider the possibility that they and their religious leaders might be dead wrong about a great deal of what they believe. It is so very human to be wrong on a wide range of things when one is absolutely certain they are right. How many of you came to Jesus solely because you were afraid of going to Hell—and nothing else. If you did, you were not interested in loving good or reconciling with him. You were just interested in saving your own skin. It was not all about Jesus. It was—in your own mind—all about YOU. Now, ain’t that the very height of selfishness and self-centeredness. Jesus loved you—but did you love Jesus in that moment when you walked the aisle to the altar—-or were you just scared out of your wits of Hell fire and needing an insurance policy really suddenly and badly? The Bible says in the New Testament that the man or woman who comes to God in fear will never see the Kingdom of Heaven because they do not have the perfect love of Jesus that casts out fear. Give it some deep thought. Torture yourself night and day with the possibility that the salvation experience you had “Didn’t Take.” It was a coat of paint that failed to stick to the wall.

      • A close relative tells me “I am the meanest man who ever lived.” Then she laughs out loud because she knows I am just being comical or am just trying to get people to be thoroughly honest with themselves and transcend the shallow thinking and ignorance of the so-called “common man.” When I read the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical comments on this blog, they often remind me of a verse of scripture from the old National Lampoon poem entitled “Deteriorata.” It says: “Be assured that a stroll through the sea of most souls would scarcely get your feet wet.” Y’all ponder that down at the IFB and SBC churches tomorrow.

  44. Homosexual,

    We love you. It may not always look that way but we do. We care about as you are made in God’s image. However, the God who created you and me as well as ALL things, including marriage, says that no homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God. It is a perversion of his created and sacred calling. But wait….guess who will also not inherit the kingdom of God….. adulterers, thieves, fornicators, the covetous and the idolator. That includes me. Jesus said if you look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart. I had stolen, I had idols. Your homosexuality is a damning as my thievery. We are in the same predicament and it is called sin. You are not being singled out because of your homosexuality, but your sin, and all are born sinners. You cannot stand before God, nor can I.

    But guess what…Some 2,000 years ago, God the Father sent His Son to earth in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus, the God-Man, walked this earth for some 33 years. During that time, He obeyed the Father and His law perfectly in thought, word, and deed. He knew no sin. He could not sin, because He was, is, and always will be the sinless Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. Jesus perfectly obeyed the Father in His life and in His bloody death took upon Himself the punishment sinners rightly deserve for their sins against God. However, Jesus did not remain dead. After Jesus died on the cross and was buried, He rose from the grave, forever defeating sin and death.Jesus sacrificially shed his innocent blood on the cross for those who would humble themselves, turn from their sins and turn toward God, and by faith receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, in which you will be clothed in His righteousness and your sin covered.

    Instead of other possibilities out there, and other “more important” issues we could tackle as you have suggested, we have come to you with the message of eternal life. We do not make it our business to change your orientation, but to tell you the good news that will free you from sin. I am so thankful someone came to be, in my sinfulness, with that message, as faith comes hearing the Gospel. So we are not wasting out time, but you are part our time. You are worthy. Repent and believe the Gospel while there is still time. The clock is ticking.

    facebook.com/thelensofoptimism

    • “However, the God who created you and me as well as ALL things, including marriage, says that no homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God.”

      Actually, He said no such thing. That idea was the brainchild of certain translators, reflecting the teachings of certain churches. It is NOT supported by the Greek texts of the New Testament.

    • “However, the God who created you and me as well as ALL things, including marriage, says that no homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God. It is a perversion of his created and sacred calling.”

      Excuse me Captain Kangaroo Court. I think you are taking some unjust liberty with the Bible here. Paul is usually the big “lister” of these things in the New Testament—and he is talking to Christians when he is listing them. He is not saying that a Christian who commits these sins is going to Hell. Here is what he is actually saying:

      “This list of things is what the people who have never heard of Jesus do as a regular part of their lives. It reflects their lostness in not knowing Jesus. You were like that once—but you are now on the Jesus team and are covered by grace. This means you should do the best you can muster to avoid being that way to the full extent like they are—although these sins still live within you and you still do these things too because even Christians are not totally free from the ravages of sin in this life.”

      You are caught up in what I call the Old Double-blind Fundie Catch-22. “I repented of my sins and was saved by grace through Jesus Christ. But if I continue in any sin after Jesus has saved me, then that must mean that my repentance was not real and I was never saved to begin with—so I am really not saved.”

      This is like a dog chasing its own tail. The FACT OF THE MATTER. THE RAW BARE BONES FACT OF THE MATTER is that ALL Christians—even the best of them—continue in sin after they become Christians—every last one of you fundies and all the rest of you too. Fundies are just so frightened of their sins that they create a little internal closet where they hide their sins from themselves—and most of all Reverend Beverly B. Beverly—and pretend that they do not exist so they will not have to go around in circles worrying to death about them and chasing their own tails.

      It is okay. The sin is there. The grace covers it. And yes—you do continually continue in sin—even though God has saved you—and any fundie who tells you different is an ignorant liar and a charlatan.

  45. Pingback: Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People… | Social Stigmas

  46. What I see is hypocrisy and and inconsistency in these people. To me, they are no different than the Pharisees of Jesus’ time. Why do they have such hatred toward gays? If they are going to attack gays, then why not attack those who partake in so many other things the Bible clearly states as wrong: greed, gluttony, adultery, lust, pornography, divorce. Why just single out being gay as the one thing God absolutely hates? As others have stated here, why not try understanding people and loving them just for who they are? God only calls us to love Him and love others. If you do that, you can let Him do His work which is to draw people unto Himself with kindness.

    • Why do they have such hatred towards gays, and why are they so focused on one sin while forgetting all of the others? Speaking as an anthropologist, my best guess is that they are afraid this sin will destroy what they regard as their Traditional, Homespun American Culture. Ever since the Moral Majority of the 1970s, the focus of these people has been less, and less, and less on Jesus and more, and more, and more on saving what they regard as “Traditional, Homespun American Culture.” Why would anyone care about saving a thing like that? Well, there is a long existing area of study that is a subset of Cultural Anthropology that is called HUMAN CULTURAL ECOLOGY. Marvin Harris and other anthropologists believe that “human culture” is the human animal’s unique way of adapting to its natural and social environment—just like the unusual beak of the Pelican uniquely adapts it to feed and stay alive. The word “adaptation” means in this case “that which keeps us alive and allows us to survive.” To take away a man’s culture is quite literally perceived to be the same as “taking one’s life—taking away one’s ability to live—which will result in certain death.”

      In my opinion, and I think it is a pretty good opinion, much of this impulse to “save one’s culture” exists unconsciously in human beings and is an aspect of what biologists would call “natural instinct,” like newborn, blind puppies knowing instinctively that they need to find some unknown and undefined thing that we people call a nipple. The puppies do not know what it is. They just know they need desperately to find some unknown thing—the nipple.

      Much of human warfare has been all about “saving our culture” from the other culture of “those other guys—THEM—and it goes all the way back to here:

      Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals, acting unconsciously and consciously—but on blind instinct too, believe that an evil THEM is trying to take away their Traditional Homespun American Culture—and if it gets taken away they will be cornered like a rat, like a man painted into a corner, like a chess player in checkmate—and all of them or some essential part of them will die—and if any part of them is per chance left living—it will be a life so unhappy that death is to be preferred over that miserable life.

      Gayness out in the open and having general public awareness is seen by the fundies as being a “culture destroyer.” That is seen as happening in several different ways:

      1) Nothing pisses God off more than gay people, so God may destroy the United States of America in a single night with a nuclear holocaust that will wipe out them and their Traditional Homespun American Culture.

      2) People find a sense of personal security in the predictable “usualness” of their culture. It frightens them to realize that they will have to experience and explain unusual new cultural things and find a way to explain them to their children. “Mommy. Why are those two women on the park bench kissing each other on the mouth and feeling each others boobs? ” For people who are frightened witless of discussing even ordinary heterosexual sex with their pubescent children—-and usually do not do so because of this intense fear—the various situations posed by openly gay Americans looks like they are being asked to scale Mt. Everest—and the thought of it makes them die to some extent inside of themselves. It is just too overwhelming.

      3) It changes the culture from what it once was—to something else—thus introducing the possibility that the culture in its revised form will no longer function as well as it once did to allow the group to alive and well.

      Unfortunately, the thing most fundies forget is that ALL human cultures change over time—often quite radically. Prehistory and history are clear on this. This has been true since the beginning of human culture. It is true now. It will always be true as long as people (as we know people now) live on planet Earth. The great triumvirate of the inevitable are death, taxes, and culture change.

  47. It’s amazing to me how Christians can always turn this issue back to divisiveness. What the guy is saying is that the church is losing 10 battles trying to fight one that isn’t yours to fight. Read Gods commandments. It doesn’t say go make gay people straight. It does however say love your neighbor and correct me if I’m wrong but they even means if they are gay. See the issue covered in this article is the fact that the church as a whole is not feeding the hungry, taking care of the widows and orphans, or for that matter keeping there own lives clean but let a gay person come out and we are ready to read him his rights. It’s time for the church to be the church and stop playing God but the church can’t see past its own bigoted, self righteous, judgemental nose.

  48. John shouldn’t have started off “Yeah all Christian that hate gays,”? By cleanly and only starting with “Christians” you are in-fact literally saying all Christians. Perhaps you miss wrote?

  49. John, shouldn’t you have started off “Yeah all Christians that hate gays,”? By cleanly and only starting with “Christians” you are in-fact literally saying all Christians. Perhaps you miss wrote?

  50. Wow, and people wonder why I’m no longer Christian. Honestly, I see far more Christian love, acceptance and behavior from the Pagan communities than in “Christian” churches. Most in the neopagan community are former Judeo-Christians and are now Pagan by choice. I refuse to be subjected to the whims of Christianity.

  51. Pingback: Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People… | john pavlovitz – my mostly unfabulous life

  52. I believe you are quite incorrect in your viewpoint, friend. Christians are not bothering gays. It’s quite the opposite. I have been a Christian all my life, and I take everyone as they are. I don’t judge them. I have yet to see a Christian (a TRUE Christian, not those worthless, faithless hate mongers that call themselves the Westboro Baptist Church), go up to a gay couple and start an argument with them. I see the gay couple ask for something from the Christian and when the Christian explains it’s against their beliefs to deal with gay people, they go off about how it is violating their rights and make a huge issue out of it. So you think it violates your rights? What about the rights of the Christian? Should they have to give up their rights just so you can have yours? Wouldn’t it be easier to just find someone else who IS willing to do what you want rather than start a ridiculous media campaign against someone who is just trying to exercise their rights? If it were me, I personally wouldn’t care. I sell appliances, and I’ll sell them to poor, rich, white, black, gay, straight, purple, two headed, three legged…I don’t care. You have money, let’s discuss delivery. However, there are certain rights that even I won’t budge on. If you came up to me and said “I’m a Devil worshiper and I demand that you quit your job because you’re a Christian,” we’d have a major problem. I’m not about to give up my any of my rights just because you believe differently than I do, or because you were born with different desires, skin, etc. than I was.

    • You don’t have a very accurate view of what has been going on in mainstream Christianity for a long time. Westboro has no monopoly on hatred or abuse of gay people.
      How about a minister who stands in the pulpit spewing unprovoked venom against gay people, calling them vile and vicious, when his own words are some of the most vicious I’ve ever heard?
      How about a minister who, under the guise of helping, counsels a young gay man to take his own life, and when that fails, attempts to blackmail him?
      How about a pastor who is delighted to learn that a young man in the congregation feels a call to be a missionary, and begins to groom him toward that… until the young man confesses, asking for help, that he is only attracted to men. From that moment on, the pastor ceases to see the young man as a potential missionary, a Christian, or even a human being. From that moment on, he’s nothing but a homosexual, and the pastor devotes every bit of his time and effort in trying to turn the man straight, neglecting to teach him even the basics of Christian living like how to treat others. He finally turned the man over to a well-known ex-gay group. And then another. To make a long story short, that young man never did make it as a missionary, although his call never died. He was never even taught how to be a Christian, and he eventually died, hating himself, angry at God, surrounded by people who could not love or accept him.
      How about the Christian parents back in the 60s who learned that their fifteen year old son was gay, and sent him to a psych hospital. The hospital put him on heavy doses of psychotropic medications, gave him shock treatments, forced him to try to have sex with lesbian patients, and allowed male attendants to rape him. When they couldn’t change him, they sent him back to his good Christian parents who tried their own method: they beat him with a baseball bat and threw him out of their home.
      This is just the tip of the iceberg, and none of this happened in Westboro Baptist, nor in churches where they carry signs against gay people.

  53. Pingback: Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People… | The American Schoolcoach

  54. The fact that you’ve had so many replies to this article is a testament to the sheer ignorance of this debate.
    A true child of God (a Christian) makes a choice to accept Christ and follow His teachings. Hence, we “choose” not to HATE anyone, but to love…even our enemies. Maybe you remember the Christians killed in a southern church not too long ago? The reactions of the families and church members is a testimony to this commandment.
    No, we aren’t perfect. We’re human and we fall short more often than we’d like. That old nature gets in the way of our service for God, even when we don’t want it to. The world calls us hypocrites or worse, but that’s all right. The truth hurts but it brings a real Christian face to face with the truth.
    And what is that truth? The fact that we’re NOT walking in God’s love and acting LIKE Christ. For without Him as our guide, nothing else matters. Oh, we can pretend our lives are just fine. After all, we’re living the way we want (or were born to live – however, you want to believe). But in the end, without Jesus Christ, this life is an empty shell. And nothing can take His place. We can find other things like money, sex, or drugs but they don’t last. And what will be left to believe or trust in then?
    But I know my God. I trust that He’s real and I believe in Jesus Christ. I know where I’m going when it’s all over.
    If you’re convinced this is all a farce or don’t buy what I’m saying, I only have one question for you…what if you’re wrong?

  55. There are so many rude and hateful comments directed towards others here. If you were standing on the street face to face with a complete stranger would you speak to them this way? Just because we are using keyboards and not our voices should not affect the way we are treating each other. We are all human, let’s show love and humanity to all. Can we?

  56. Being an openly gay man I enjoyed this article because of the wisdom it imparts. If your going to spend all your time judging others from a few lines that were pointed out in the bible, the OLD testament no doubt and take issue with how I was made and expect ME to be quiet, to live in a closet, to fade away into obscurity, you will be sorely out of luck. I am who I am, I am made this way and I make ZERO apologies about it. I do not believe in religion, I believe in spirituality and being a Wiccan has taught me more about compassion, love, respecting nature and it’s inhabitants than any of the sermons I attended at my mother and grandmothers Baptist churches when I was a boy. All those ever made me feel was that I was going to hell regardless of what I did. No one should go through life feeling they can never be good enough. We are all good enough but some folks spend way to much time pointing their finger to accuse, to put down, to bully and to hate and all the while forget they can comfort, attend, defend and love because that’s what our true purpose is here. To care for one another, to accept that which we can not change, to take care of the earth and it’s inhabitants. You want to be a good Christian, pay heed to the advice above and stop reading an old outdated book for the advice you seek.

  57. I liked the article. It speaks of practical hands and feet to folks in a hurting world. It’s kind of sad that many commenting have preconceived notions that makes listening difficult. Also each side states those notions as fact.
    The longer I am a Christian the more I find myself condensing the truth in scripture down to a reality that informs my interaction with other people.
    Jesus himself distilled all of the revelation of God given at that point in history down to a few sentences.
    Love God with all your worth, and
    Love others as yourself.
    This reality is often set against the truth of human interaction;
    We have a view of God that is distorted, and it causes a lot of self justification.
    That is obvious just by reading the interaction in these comments.
    (I include myself in this as well)
    For God to be the final judge of all things he must be above reproach which requires he be Holy and without flaw.
    For human beings to meet that standard they obviously require assistance since every person I have ever met could not meet a standard of perfection required to relate to a flawless being.
    Therefore that being can only be the ultimate judge if he is willing to provide those flawed creatures with what is required.
    I also have been blessed when lending assistance to my fellow humans because it reminds me I needed help and it was given to me. It reflects the love of God.
    We came into this world with nothing, and we’re taking nothing out of it. All we may have is what we do with what we have been given. All of the striving and accomplishments, even the love we share as humans will cease. What then?
    Listen to the author of this article and lift someone up. Even if you only have an ear to listen. Think of a loving God who really requires nothing from you but wants relationship with you.
    Ask yourself if you really know who he is or if you’ve made him who you want him to be.
    Remember that when judgement comes you will face it in singularity. Thats why he sent Jesus. He could do no other.

  58. Pingback: Christian, While You’ve Been Busy Bothering Gay People… | Between Hallowed Breaths

  59. I wrote one also:

    Dear John,

    Please stop spreading lies and propaganda about Christians. Stop pursuing your money and “fame” by writing articles that are dangerously unfounded and massive exaggerations.

    Please stop taking advantage of a population of people that doesn’t research anything they hear and believes almost everything they read, as long as it’s in line with what they want to believe, and what makes them feel better.

    John, please stop misrepresenting 75 million Christians because there were 42 outside of the courthouse picketing something while the other 74 million, 999 thousand, 9 hundred and 68 were out living their lives not bothering anyone that wasn’t first bothering them. Many of them in fact, serving their communities and helping those in need while you sit at your Macintosh and bash them. Not cool sir.

    Oh yeah, that reminds me. If you would, please research – research is a noun by the way that means the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions – let me know how many articles and blogs you find out there attacking Christians and picking fights with people of faith. When that number exceeds 500 times the number of articles written by Christians expressing the tenets of their faith, please write an article about how hypocritical you were and how off base your own attacks were; so basically an apology.

    John, please use your ability to write to express Truth and not lies. To unite and not divide. To relay facts and not opinions. To ask people to stop believing everything they hear and find out for themselves what the facts are.

    And when you write, remind your readers that the media and internet is a loud microphone held by people who will only scream what they want the world to hear. And since the massive majority of those people are of the liberal influence, it only makes sense that the loud words will not be the truth, but rather the liberal mindset and nothing more.

    (Meanwhile, while you’re at your computer talking about how evil and hateful we are, we the Church will continue to feed, clothe, encourage, shelter, and love more of those in need in one month than the bellyachers and complainers have in ten years. )

    Ok John,
    The clock is ticking.
    The sun is fading.
    Time is wasting.
    People are waiting.
    Blogger, do something worthy.

    Sincerely,
    The Church.

  60. Why is being gay supposedly a sin worse than any other? Doesn’t the Bible say all sins are equal in the eyes of God? Also, if its so horrible to be gay, why does Jesus never discuss homosexuality at all?

  61. I love this stuff. Just so everyone knows and there is no mistaken, i am a right winged nut job that hates gays, blacks, children, puppies, etc, etc, etc. I have bought snake oil to cure ailments (love that one by the way). Does anyone see how ridiculous this sounds. This is what the left, the gay community, the blacks, etc have been told over and over. The right side hates everyone except white men. Hell i think we are even being accused of hating women too. Lot of people to hate. GIVE ME A BREAK. Stop condemning someone just because they do not believe in the same things you do. Just because i don’t believe in the gay lifestyle does not mean i hate gays. It means i disagree with the lifestyle. I also disagree with some straight lifestyle choices as well. Over the past year Christians have been getting nailed to the cross (pun intended) for no other reason than they are Christians. We need to stop treating others that disagree with us in such a disgraceful tasteless manner. The more it happens the greater divide in this country and we will never come back from it.
    To the person (i forget the name) that wrote that the right is the reason the country is in shambles now. Turn off MSNBC and go outside, take a deep breath and smell the fresh air and go make a friend. If you want acceptance for your beliefs you have to accept the beliefs of others. Its a two way street folks. You cannot condemn some and put yourself above them.

  62. Pastors and churches should stop shaming Christians. The Bible is not ABOUT God, but is His word. If He says no, it’s no. If He says it’s wrong, it’s wrong. The Bible is not outdated nor is it untrue. Otherwise we infer that God is stupid and doesn’t know how to relay His message. And people need to stop with “Jesus never said that homosexuals are wrong”. Jesus didn’t address a lot of things, but we find many passages in the Bible about how homosexuality is a sin. If we’re going to always compete with the “shellfish” issue as a comparison, then shame on us. You cannot compartmentalizations sin. So, Christian, bury your thoughts and eyes in the word of God. It does not lie. It does not fail. For it is better to be on the wrong side of history than the wrong side of eternity.

  63. And here is the problem with this…whether it’s Christians, Gays, Republicans, Democrats, Native Americans, Blacks, Whites (may I use honkeys?…it always sounds funnier than whites!) and any other group of people who is different or has conflicting ideals, ideas, etc.from another. Whenever there’s a disagreement between two (or more) groups of people, each will ALWAYS (yes I said always) paint a picture of the opposing group and their views using the most EXTREME slice of the opposing group. Millions of Christians each year perform the things that are on that list in the article…and then some. In fact I’d bet that of all the people that do perform the acts on the list, a higher % are Christians than any other group (prove me wrong if you wish, i don’t have time to research it.) Nobody notices because it’s not covered on the news. It’s not sexy, it doesn’t get ratings, and frankly the Christians I know who do these things don’t want pats on the back…they want to help people. So I would say to you John P, go to Honduras or Guatemala and watch (you’re welcome to pitch in) Christians build houses or divert rivers so villages can have running water, or sneak Bibles into a country where you could be thrown in jail if you’re caught or provide free medical care to villages in Africa, or dig a network of wells in Haiti (and if you’ve done any of these things, then God bless you) instead of writing crap like this that takes cheap shots at a whole group of people based on an infinitesimal sample size that happens to be the hot thing on the 24/7 news cycle.

  64. It’s actuall not that much about being gay or (as you condescendingly refer to us as “Christian”) about us trying hopelessly to un-gay you, it’s that when you stand before God to give your account for the sum of your life, we “Christian”s want your testimony to land you in forever heaven, not forever hell. Sorry we cared enough to say something before that day comes and it’s too late for you to do anything about it. Good luck. Your going to need it (but won’t get it) God grants forgiveness, not tolerance.

    • “We “Christians want your testimony to land you in forever heaven, not forever hell.” How about you solely worry about how you live YOUR life, and stop worrying if ANYONE ELSE might land in hell? Trust us, we’re adults. We don’t need – nor want, nor ask for – your help.

  65. Rather than cherry picking comfortable verses of scripture to condemn those with whom you disagree politically, may I suggest you look at Christ’s teaching in total. It is abundantly true that He said to love one another and to forgive those who trespass against you. However, as He said in John 8:11 when he rescued an adulteress woman from being stoned to death by the Pharisees, it was clear that while He forgave her of her sins, his final words to her were “….go and sin no more.” Sin is pervasive in our world today and true followers of Christ must be courageous and committed to calling out sin for what it is….but….without condemning the individual. Christian love includes encouraging those in bondage to sin to confess and repent and be forgiven by a loving God. Sin must be confessed and repented of, not celebrated or embraced under the guise of “tolerance” and scripture is abundant with references to sinful acts, in particular, sexual sin. 1 Corinthians 6:18 says “Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.” If you are going to cite Jesus’ teachings, please do so accurately and in context….even the uncomfortable parts.

  66. http://www.godvine.com/read/they-refused-to-let-chick-fil-a-open-and-the-reason-why-will-shock-you-fb-gv-1048.html

    only one example of who is actually spending their time and energy in the wrong places…how many Gay bakers, photographers and gay privately owned companies are being sued?? Christianity is the one who is being attacked and discriminated against. We have a constitutional right to freedom of Religion..there is no constitutional right to be married..know the difference.

    • So that means your religion would condone those same businesses refusing to serve an interracial couple, or African Americans? Slavery was condoned in Bible too, was it not? Or what about divorce people who have sinned? Will you ask every person who walks through the door what their level of “sin” is before you serve them? If you run a public business – or hold a GOVERNMENT position – your religious beliefs are not allowed to pick and choose who you “religiously condone” to do business with. How about you know THAT difference?

    • Gena, you are mistaken. They are citizens of the U. S. Unless you have a different constitution than the rest of the country, they are entitled to “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”. Who are you to take that away from them? Mabie you are Un-American and should leave the country for one that is a bigoted as yourself.

    • Wow. That’s all I can say, really. Oh yes Christians are so persecuted in America; you aren’t allowed to pray in your own homes, or attend Church, or attend Bible study, or get married to the person you love…

      Oh wait. That’s right, you *can* do all these things. NOBODY is stopping you from practicing your religion – in fact, Christianity is the favored religion in this country. Stop whining.

  67. Putting forth an idea of God that says His love for everyone and everything is boundless and unconditional limits Him.

    Even He would tell you to stop spreading your misappropriations and distortions. They are from you and your own lack of the full scope of which you are capable.

    Let Him make you more. Please stop making Him less.

  68. Putting forth an idea of God that says His love for everyone and everything is not boundless and unconditional limits Him.

    Even He would tell you to stop spreading your misappropriations and distortions. They are from you and your own lack of the full scope of which you are capable.

    Let Him make you more. Please stop making Him less.

  69. As the mother of an AMAZING gay son, I read over many of these comments and literally shudder. I can ASSURE you God has NEVER left my side during this journey, and has totally changed my heart. I use to be like many of you, and God tended my heart in such a gentle way, and let me know my son is the BELOVED just like I am. It has been the most awesome spiritual journey of my life. I was a SSchool teacher–a youth worker and my husband was a Deacon in the Southern Baptist Church. I use to buy into everything my pastor preached from the pulpit without doing any of the true study I should’ve been doing. Going back on my own to Hebrew texts etc. You would be shocked to learn how much of what you think is literal is ONLY an interpretation, thus thousands of religions who believe just as strongly as you do, but in a totally different way about some of these things.You who are so fundamental and read everything from a literal point of view, I would encourage you to let go of all of that, and allow God to lead you from now on. I can ASSURE you I have a PEACE in my heart like NEVER before, and I do not need anybody telling me how or what I should believe about my son. I KNOW my son and I know MANY other LGBT people who are the most wonderful Christians you could ever know. God looks upon the heart and knows each of them by name. They are truly as beloved as you are. I wouldn’t go back to who I was before for anything in this world. I just LOVE better–Why, oh why does this anger you like it does? I just do not understand your reasoning. Do you spend as much time fighting divorce or gluttony? How has Equality in marriage changed anything in your life?
    Peace to all of you. John, tyou for your brave messages. You are LOVED by so MANY!!

    • You are an amazing parent, and you follow truly in the teachings of Jesus.

      Jesus said “God is love”, and you have shown that unfailingly. And you have it repaid in the love of your family. That is blessedness.

      I wish others could see and behave as you do. There would be a lot fewer miserable people, and so many less families torn apart by needless and empty hate.

  70. this article was beautiful… and i am *not* a christian but was “raised” as one in a church that pretty much denounced and vilified ssa quite often while still in-turn preaching the love of god/jesus/the holy ghost to all of us… do not judge lest ‘ye be judged…

    i couldn’t keep up… i couldn’t understand how such a loving god could possibly be so judgemental in the same breath… and as a *girl* i couldn’t understand how *we* were supposed to be “subserviant” to men… that is pretty much laid out in scripture too or at least the *version* of scripture i grew up hearing…

    in the end i chose to walk away… for various reasons but partly because as a female and a *bi-sexual* one at that i couldn’t continue to pretend to believe i was going to hell because of how i feel… because of who i *am*… and i found my own peace…

  71. Sadly, and unfortunately, the “Christians” with the most visibility and biggest pulpits can not raise money by spreading the word of the good and helpful things you cite they SHOULD be doing. They can only raise money by contstantly having a “boogey man” topic that is meant to keep their followers cowering in fear and misinformation. I mean, if they can not follow the lead of the current Pope’s sentiments about this issue – and other issues that challenge thier definitions – they will not follow your lead either. And this is why so many young people are completely turning away from ALL organized religions, especially Christianity. And I mean: CAN YOU BLAME THEM?

    • Based solely on your brief, insulting response, I suspect you are a classic example of the kind of Christian he was writing about. Perhaps read it again, this time with less attitude and more humility. There is a great deal of wisdom in it.

  72. The God that I serve commands me to love EVERYONE. I am against homosexuality, not homosexuals- hate the sin but love the sinner. The word “Christian” means Christ-like, anyone spewing hatred of any kind is not projecting the image of Christ. We shouldn’t judge and it’s not our job to try and change anyone, that is God’s department. We as Christians need to get our heads on straight and focus on the mission: winning souls for Christ, not taking them by force.

    • “Hate the sin but love the sinner”.

      Do you act the same towards people who commit adultery? Who divorce and remarry almost as often as they change clothes? Who are envious of others? Who tell even the smallest of lies? Who have tattoos, or insist on wearing clothes of mixed fibres? Or who insist on publicly paying to show how devout they are?

      I bet not: that phrase is only ever used against LGBT people, and it isn’t less insulting that loudly declaiming “I hate homos”. It’s just a more insidious way of hiding your bigotry

  73. “Love is the language he commands you to speak.”

    Good advice. Then why:
    “You’re wasting daylight here.
    “You’re squandering precious breaths.”

  74. To the people even on this wise blog posts saying God doesn’t condone homosexuality, or spouting that tired line about marriage being between a man and a woman…please read your bible again. Maybe go back and take second grade English again if you’re having trouble with reading comprehension because it really is mind numbingly ignorant. Jesus never once, not even a single time, condemns gay people. And He does say that the only way to God is through him. And to love everyone, regardless of how uncomfortable their choice of partner makes you. That’s the only way you’re getting into heaven. If you continue your hatred and your judgement, hiding behind what you desperately tout as righteousness, then you’re just doing the devil’s work and not the Lord’s. Congratulations on that. To quote a great man, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. And we’ll do it by loving everyone.

  75. Grace progressively changes people. While, if a person saved by grace acts very spitefuly, then it says more of the problem of sin in that person than a problem with their viewpoint. And if a fruit of the Spirit is missing, could that person actually be a Christian? My thinking is that the author doesn’t care or have the interest to investigate what that means.

    What this article does is try to skirt around and stand on a moral framework without reference to what that moral framework is founded on. Additionally, it doesn’t represent basic Christianity (sin, redemption, forgiveness, restoration, grace, the cross, the salvific mission of Jesus, etc…).

    So, while it can be a good idea to listen to your critics, it is hard to hear this article. I mean, if the article was saying Christians’ message gets lost through the vitriol, then that would be something to listen to. But the article isn’t about the Christian message. It is about how Christians tell others what is wrong or right. It goes on to say that Christians should stop telling others how they should live their lives (while telling Christians to stop telling others how to live their lives). Mind boggling. [edit: The article does mention “the insults you hurl, the coldness you deliver, the relationships you sever, the protests you mount, the havoc you wreak, etc” but, without definition of what those are, what words/actions characterize what the author is referencing? I mean, the Chinese government arrests members of Falun Gong for “terrorism” when they protest by sitting still. So, words are cheap without substance. The author does go on to write that Christians effort to change someone’s mind about homosexuality is fruitless and implies that it is utter meaningless. The article then goes on to define what is meaningful in life – and in that definition misses some key differentiators in the Christian message than other messages that are out there.]

    Additionally, while the author seems to call Christians to the carpet for how to do good in a hurting world, it forgets that that is a self reflective moral condemnation. Christians aren’t the only ones who have a responsibility to feed the sick, heal the poor, etc.. The author is responsible for it as well. But, I get it, this is a “if the show fits article.” But, by closer inspection, it is not that kind of article at all. It is denouncing those who would message that homosexuality is objectively wrong. And in so doing, with the addition of the call to social action, implies that Christians are spending more time, if not all their precious time, not feeding the sick, helping the poor, etc… Unfortunately, the author makes a standard logical fallacy by taking this route and sets up a straw man argument without providing evidence for how Christians who believe x,y,z live their lives and use their money.

    But this brings it full circle. The author is telling Christians about their theology without really hitting the theology on the head. My thinking is that the author isn’t really trying to help Christians get their theology right. It seems to me that the author it trying to get Christians to go away so that people don’t have to listen to them.

    Personally, I relish constructive criticism wherever it comes from. However, regardless of what I think on this topic, I would rather talk with my Hindu friends about what I am getting wrong than the author of this article who doesn’t have the interest to get what anyone is getting wrong. It just seem like the author just wants certain people to shut up. And that is disheartening to read.

    • Maybe the author wants the majority of actual Christians to speak up and decry the evil certain people do in their religion’s name.

      Just as everyone expects all Muslims to keep speaking out against what extremists do in the name of Islam.

      • Not likely. See my comments about the author not caring…. If what you are saying is true, then I think he would focus on the Christian message getting lost in the vitriol. Instead, the author is trying to change Christians’ view points on the subject by telling them 1)it is wrong to tell others how to live their lives (while he tells others how to live their lives), 2) that it is pointless and fruitless to try to change the points of view of others (while trying to change the point of view of others), 3) tell Christians more about thier theology (while he misses the key points of Christian theology).

  76. As a Christian its so disheartening to see Right wing Christians who are such crybabies and who always act like they are picked on and their God is weak and can’t stand discussion. Everything in here is straight from the Gospels. Gay bashing isn’t. Jesus never mentioned gays and it was a BIG issue during those days in the Roman Empire

    • I would agree on the Christians acting like cry babies. However, the author did not characterize the Bible very well. Sure, there are different interpretations of the Bible, but the author seems to desire to write a compelling piece over a substantial piece.

      And Jesus never mentioning gays even though it was a big issue in his day does say a lot about his message. But, Jesus dealt with sin differently than one would expect. Look at the prostitute he came to and rescued from being stoned to death. His words to her were both comforting and sharp, “Go, and sin no more.” Jesus was never in the name it and blame it game. He was in the search and rescue game. And the consumate rescue act was his death and resurrection. The perfect God-man didn’t willingly die for good people, or so that normal people can continue their lives, or just as a fluke because bad guys didn’t like him. He died because sin caused the only one who did no wrong, who would never do wrong, to have to pay the ultimate price so that we could reap the benefits of that price – and not “escape from hell as a place per se, although that reality is very true, but the very hell we treasure over being in the presence of God.

  77. Now this is interesting. So, if I’m a Christian and I believe homosexual behavior is wrong, then I’m branded as a “homophobic,” equivalent to a phobia which is a psychological neurosis, I’m an irrational myopic, and I’m also wasting oxygen and needlessly taking up precious space by my mere existence. Is it really not possible to have rational discussions anymore?

    • ” if I’m a Christian and I believe homosexual behavior is wrong, then I’m branded as a “homophobic,”
      Not necessarily. But if you believe homosexual behavior is wrong, and you as a result treat homosexual people in any way differently than how you treat others, then there’s a problem.
      Let me offer you the same hypothetical situation I just posted for someone else:
      Your brother gets married to another man. They adopt a daughter. The measure of whether or not you are homophobic will be in how you treat your brother and brother-in-law. Are they welcome in your home? Can they share a meal with you without you feeling the need to quote scripture or lecture them or telling them they are going to hell? Do you accept your brother-in-law as your brother-in-law, as part of your family? Do you accept their daughter as your niece? Do you teach your children that their uncle’s husband is also their uncle, and their daughter is your children’s cousin? Or do you teach your children that the marriage isn’t “real,” that it’s a sin, that they have no business raising a daughter, etc.?
      Do you see what I am getting at? You may believe whatever you wish. But the moment you treat others as different or “less-than” because of it, and teach or encourage others to do the same, that’s when you’ve crossed the line into homophobia. Why? If your brother married a Muslim girl, and you believed it was wrong and a sin for him to do so, would you refuse to acknowledge her as your sister-in-law? Would you refuse to recognize their marriage? Hopefully, you wouldn’t ostracize her, or them, and could accept her as part of your family, simply agreeing to disagree, and not discuss, the matter of her faith in a negative way, and not to let it affect how you treat their future children. (If you can’t, then there are deeper problems here.) But the situation with a brother who marries a man is no different than a brother who marries someone of a different faith. YOUR beliefs say it is wrong. But clearly, your brother’s beliefs do not. If you expect him to respect you at all, you need to show him the same respect, and respect that his beliefs are different from yours. It’s a rational thing to do. When people can’t do that, that’s when their behavior is considered irrational… and that’s why it’s labeled as a disorder.

  78. Jesus never sought to be “politically correct.” He did not say what people wanted to hear, but what was true. He did not adapt to people; he expected people to adapt to God’s truth as he spoke it. He said that his words, which were given to him by his Father (John 12:49), spoke a universal truth that would outlast the physical universe. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35). He said that his words would be the test by which men would ultimately be judged (John 12:48). I think we need to take all of his words very seriously. (All Scripture quotations are from the New International Version, unless otherwise indicated.)

    • That’s all well and good, but bear in mind that even Jesus made a distinction between people who followed the letter of the Law (otherwise known as the Philistines) and those who followed the Spirit. If you want to take His words seriously, remember that He spoke a lot about divorce and how wrong it ws — and yet never said anything about LGBT folk.

      There’s a “hmmmmmm” for ya.

      • I think you’ve applied a logical falllacy. It isn’t as though Jesus made a distinction between those who followed the letter of the law and those who followed the spirit of the law. You are partially right, but have equated a partial sense of what Jesus said and did with what he fully said and did. Remember the Pharisees who he reprimanded for not knowing the law? It wasn’t as though they didn’t know the words of the law, or even the intent of the law (if that is what you mean by “spirit”), Jesus implied – and even said – that they didn’t care for the law itself.

        Jesus was even more stringent about following the law than the Pharisees were, and even took it up a notch. But, Jesus never looked at the law as providing righteouesness. He referred to the faith of Abraham that came before the law. Jesus’ message rode on the prophets’ message that the law brought knowledge and condemnation of sin. And Jesus reiterated that God hates sin. But, Jesus, in his mission to seek and save the lost, didn’t come to add to the condemnation already present, but to point to and become the propotiation or covering for that sin.

        So, in effect, Jesus’ condemnation of he Pharisees was hat they thought they could earn their own place with God through “being” righteous. Jesus message stood in direct contrast to that seeing as he was the only means of righteousness (as seen from every book in the OT).

        • So if indeed He is the only means of righteousness and the Pharisees were found lacking for presuming they *were* righteous… where does that put today’s “Christian” who stands there and says loudly to all who will listen how much he/she *knows* God’s will and that certain people will never be allowed into Heaven… even though they had the apparent misfortune to be born that way? Isnt that a bit presumptive in a Pharisitical way?

  79. You bring up talking points that I am excited to talk about – hence my engagement on this comments section.

    The Bible describes every person with the misfortune of being born “that way”. Homosexuality is not “the” problem. Shoot, my hetrosexualitu is not the answer, nor is it any claim to righteousness.

    And Christianity isn’t about going to heaven. Heaven is basically being with God forever. Christianity is about being with God now and forever.

    As for Christians telling others that they know God’s will – well, anyone can know God’s will as God has revealed it. And he ultimately revealed it to his prophets and apostles, what we call the Bible. Can we know for certain who doesn’t want to know God? I think this is a much longer conversation than this comments section. However, in short, yes and no.

    As far as the Pharisaical way to be, they were more about attaining righteousness on their own according to their religious means – not through the promises of God fulfilled in Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Jesus called them white washed tombs because they tried so hard to look good on the outside, but were just as dead in sin on the inside as the sinners they tried to separate themselves from. Jesus also called then snakes and vipers and detested the burden of their religion (forced good actions), they put on others.

    If Christians yell at gay people to become ungay in order to be saved, then that sounds very Pharisaical. Also, if Christians don’t talk about sin and how we try to attain righteousness by trying to be good people, then that is also Pharisaical.

  80. My issue is with Christaphobic people. It’s sad they have to judge all Christian people by one person and spew your hatred across the board to anyone that goes to church or has a bible in their hand. God’s word is judge lest they be judged. All have sin and come short of the glory of God.

    • In short: Quit being the mirror image of the people you are talking about.

      Problem is that the random sampling of those who are actually speaking out confirms that Christers outnumber Christians.

      BTW. Read the rest of the verse. It does NOT say ‘Do not judge’ but rather it enjoins us to be very careful HOW we judge. In other words it implies the same thing as ‘remove the beam from your own eye…’.

  81. You have no rights to condemn anyone in this life. Zero. You are not God. You are called to love, mercy, and Grace and if you can’t do it – then it’s you that needs to repent. Not gay people.
    I am so sick and tired of Fundamental christianity – with all it’s major internal issues – trying to run roughshod over people who have nothing nor want anything to do with you.
    Your Churches are emptying out. Your religions are dying. They’re dying. Not because people,. “don’t want to hear the truth.” but because “…by ye fruits, ye shall know them.”
    This once saved always saved mindset has been a free ticket to be the worst kind of human beings this world has ever seen. You talk so much crap when it comes to Catholicism – about them having a Pope – when all along American Christian’s have many popes. These men who raise these huge churches and run their organizations like Feudal Lords. In an American democracy we have the power of Theological Oligarchs deciding who enters the kingdom of heaven and who gets left behind because of the King James Bible and 16th century prejudices.
    Here’s a hint: You are not as saved as you think you are. Paul said, “Seek out YOUR salvation with fear and trembling.”

  82. Wow. Wow.
    This has been an issue for me as a Christian, how to react, how to love, how to understand my place as a Christian world citizen and my role in this world.
    I can’t tell people how to live, feel or judge them on who they are. I do know this, if people really seek Jesus, they will discover His will for their life. Gay or Straight, I won’t tell you how to live but I will always say seek Jesus. Don’t seek the will of a church or a pastor, but seek the will of Jesus. They can make a choice then if they do or don’t want to seek Him. I wish everyone would, but I would never try and make someone. It has to be a choice.
    I also believe God made marriage for a man and a woman, BUT I think if you are of adult age you should be able to marry the person you commit your life to. No matter what their gender. Allow people to commit their life to the one they love. Marriage is a good thing. I may be old fashioned, but I think sex is for a committed relationship, committed in marriage. I think gay people should have that choice, just like straight people. Why put another hurdle for people to try and stumble over when they want to be committed for life. That is the right thing to do. I give the other side of it to Jesus.
    I also think churches should have the right to say no to marrying couples who don’t agree with their theology. Churches are sacred to those who worship in them and we should respect that. I would never get married in a mosque, they don’t agree with my theology.
    This is a such a complex issue, especially when we have so many horrible people from both sides of the fence. Christians who struggle with the sin of anger and Gay people who have been hurt by Christians who don’t know how to compassionate, peacemakers or know how to give their issue to God and just love their neighbour. Jesus had the authority to judge and say sin no more. Allow Him to continue to do that and clothe ourselves with compassion and love.

  83. In actuality, rightwing-conservative Christians HATE Jesus Christ in nearly every aspect—-Except for the part where rightwingers get help from Jesus to go to heaven.

    Their moral relativism is enormous, and is crystal clear to everyone EXCEPT conservative RW Christians, who remain willfully and blissfully blind.

    What a pitiful, pathetic bunch.

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