Dear Women, You Don’t Really Matter to the Men of the Christian Right

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Dear Women,

You don’t matter to the men of the Christian Right.

If you haven’t learned that by now, listening to high-profile Evangelists and preachers rush to defend Donald Trump’s reprehensible comments regarding women, his attitude toward them, and his conduct around them—I hope you finally get it.

They have contempt for you.

To them, you aren’t separate but equal, as they might claim from the pulpit. You may be made in the image of God, but not in the same way that they are. You are inferior. You are lesser than. You are Adam’s rib meat; baby machines, meal preparers, arm candy, pleasure tools designed by God for men to use as they desire. Some of these men of God will have the guts to actually say this, others will simply prove it to you. They are proving it to you now. Listen to them.

It’s why inconceivably, these men can manage to dismiss Trump’s horrible words as harmless “locker room talk”; you know, just guys being guys, talking about grabbing women by their genitalia and forcing physical advances upon them. This is natural to them. This is acceptable. This is what goes on in the heads of men who believe that God is a dude and that women brought sin. In their twisted patriarchal world, all men act this way, all men talk this way, all men think this way.

No, we don’t—but they do.

If these professed men of God truly acknowledged your inherent value, they would be fiercely defending you right now, instead of Donald Trump. They would be openly condemning such disregard for the image of God within you, and sharply severing their ties with him—but many of them they aren’t. They’re making excuses. They’re blaming the victim. They’re doubling down. They’re digging in their manly heels right now.

And it’s not because they want to have the ear of the next President. They surely do.
And it’s not because their allegiance to a political party is far greater than to their faith convictions. That is also true.
And it’s not because they see this as an opportunity to raise their own profiles. You better believe they do.
And it’s not because the Bible they cling to reinforces their superiority. In their hands it does.

But the real reason they’re doing it, is because to them you aren’t worth defending; not your intelligence or your gifts or your worth. As a result, your consent isn’t really a concern either; you may have noticed that. It’s why, in their minds sexual misconduct almost never occurs, and when it does, it’s because you were dressed too provocatively or sending mixed signals, or because their motives were misinterpreted. They don’t believe you have the right to say or no or to be offended. If anything, they believe you should be flattered. This is the hubris of men who think God made you as an accessory.

Surely, the men of the Christian Right defending Donald Trump right now do not represent all Christian men, and definitely not men outside of the Church, which is perhaps the greatest irony here; that the most vigorous defense of his degradation of women is coming from those who most loudly claim they represent God and identify themselves as spiritual leaders.

As a Christian and a pastor and a man, I’d liked to apologize to you for these men and what you endure from them, but I won’t apologize to you on their behalf because that would mean aligning myself with them and I will not do that. They don’t speak for me. They don’t speak for many of us. They certainly don’t speak for God.

But I will tell you that many of us see you; we respect you and we recognize the God in you, and we do condemn Donald Trump’s words, and the culture of disrespect, dehumanization, and misogyny they breed. We condemn when the Bible is used to justify your minimizing and harassment and assault. We won’t stand for these things, because you, our daughters, wives, sisters, mothers; our friends, bosses, coworkers, and our pastors, reflect the character of God to us every day and we are grateful.

We don’t believe you are inferior. We don’t believe you are less than. We don’t believe we get to define you. We don’t believe we get to tell you when you get to say yes or no to us.

You do matter greatly to us—and we’re standing with you.

 

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225 thoughts on “Dear Women, You Don’t Really Matter to the Men of the Christian Right

  1. Women don’t matter to the heathen left either. Witness the serial sexual predator Bill Clinton. And his wife, and partner in crime (the advocate for women lol) calling them bimbos and trailer trash. Oh and don’t forget the other predators – John Kennedy and LBJ. The democrats win in the sexual predator race!

    • Are you kidding me right now? No one has a corner on this particular market – it’s EVERYWHERE. And you pointing out that “other people do it” doesn’t make it ok, or less reprehensible, thatTrump does.

      • I think you two are in violent agreement. He doesn’t seem to defend Trump (not possible). He merely pointed out that for the side of the political spectrum that idolizes Bill Clinton, and Ted Kennedy, to get on their high horse over how Trump treats women is a complete joke.

    • John, you are certainly correct that the “Christian right” have no more indiscretions than the “heathen left”. The issue here is that the Christian right is not condemning Trumps words or behavior. When John Edwards indiscretions were discovered, he was forced to withdraw from the race for the democratic nomination as a democratic candidate. No one minimized his indiscretion. Trump’s indiscretions are being minimized by the Christian left That is problematic.

      • They are not being “minimized” at all. The reality is that there are only two viable candidates. Trumps sins do not make Hillary any more appealing. And it’s too late for him to drop out, practically speaking.

        Here’s what one of those evil misogynistic Christian leaders said:

        “Naturally I’m disappointed,” said Steve Scheffler, head of the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition. “But, you know, the Bible tells me that we are all sinners saved by grace and I don’t think there’s probably a person alive that I know of that hasn’t made some mistakes in the past.”

        He said Clinton has peccadilloes of her own, most notably marital woes with her husband, former President Bill Clinton.

        “So yes, I will vote for Donald Trump. I’m not excusing his behavior at all. It’s disgusting,” he said.

        ——————————————————————-

        If you needed brain surgery and the choice was between a very good brain surgeon and one who was mediocre which would you choose? If it turned out that a recording of a crude private conversation the good brain surgeon had over 10 years ago, would you be so disgusted you would switch to the mediocre surgeon. I don’t think you would and I know I wouldn’t.

        It’s very disingenuous if not outright lying for jp to be suggesting that Christian leaders support Trump’s comments. They don’t. I don’t either. But I’m voting for Trump. His sins don’t make Hillary any more appealing.

        • How convenient that you overlook Trump’s comments from just months ago when he was practically frothing at the mouth with demeaning comments to Meghan Fox because she dared to question his long history of treating women badly. Following your line of reasoning, that’s like choosing a brain surgeon because he botched so many years ago, but overlooking another botched surgery just months ago. I wouldn’t let the man operate on me.
          Lest you forget “You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes,” Trump told CNN’s Don Lemon on Friday night. “Blood coming out of her wherever.”
          This behavior ISN’T in his distant past. Maybe ten years from now, with a squeaky clean track record we MIGHT start believing he’s turned over a new leaf.
          John is shining the light on how quickly many evangelical leaders are sweeping all this under the rug as ancient history. It’s anything but ancient history.
          I just read a post where a woman (shocked me) called attention to the many sales to women of Fifty Shades of Grey as somehow being hypocritical of the women outraged at Trump’s comments – like they somehow, by reading erotica, really want to be abused. This frightens me beyond belief – along with the religious leaders who so readily excuse Trump’s comments. We already have a culture where too many men secretly, or not so secretly believe that women really want to be grappled and demeaned. Supporting Trump, in my opinion, only fuels the belief this behavior is okay and that it can be readily ignored.

          • I think it’s sad that JohnP needs to continually attack Christians. This time he is viciously attacking Christian men accusing them of seeing women as inferior and as “meat” etc. His pandering is really disgusting.

            We don’t do that in my Church. We offer what we believe without putting down others who in good faith believe otherwise.

            These men have mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, nieces, female friends, etc. They DO care about women. He falsely and unfairly attacks them and their motives.

            Regardless of Trump’s personal morality, he has an opponent who is firmly pro-abortion. Christian men and women should not be supporting abortion rights because an abortion unjustly takes the life of a human person. Donald Trump has vowed to appoint Supreme Court Justices who would be in alignment with the concept of having compassion for the unborn. This is just one policy difference important to Christians. There are others.

            Nobody is voting for Trump because they think he is a saint or a perfect example of what a man or husband should be, and it’s disingenuous for JohnP to be accusing Trump supporters of supporting his faults and flaws. Hillary Clinton is not perfect in her personal life either. If only we had some recordings of her when she thought nobody was recording. I’m sure we could come up with some very juicy and embarrassing comments. But she’s too smart for that and knows how to keep her secrets and how to scrub emails off her server and smash her phones so that the FBI cannot conduct a thorough investigation.

            Trump has an opponent, and Trump’s faults do not make her policies acceptable to many Christians who practice their faith.

            JohnP should at least be open minded enough to allow for the possibility that others could in good faith disagree with his ultra-left-wing liberal politics and religious beliefs, and just might be supporting Trump because they think he would be better for our country and better for women than Hillary.

            • Let’s clarify. Hillary is Pro-Choice. Big difference. She believes abortions should be. “Safe, legal, and RARE” are her exact words. Or, would including this in the full discussion undermine your righteous argument?
              Let women make the agonizing decisions for their own bodies. Women are not property – though, sadly, too many men, like Trump, and Christian zealots, would like to treat them that way.

              • Thank you, John.

                I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that Benny is in very serious and urgent need of the services of mental health professionals. There are too many times when he has revealed he is just not in touch with reality.

                Mental illness has afflicted so many people and I do not want anyone to avoid getting help. There is no stigma, it is merely a brain disorder just as diabetes is a disorder of the pancreas.

              • Pro-choice is a deceptive term. It means pro-abortion or pro-abortion-rights. There was never any threat to anyone who wanted to do the normal thing of letting a pregnancy come to term. Hence there is no need for a “choice.” There is only a need to allow for abortion.

                Why should it be “rare” anyway? Because it kills babies?

                How rare is 3,000 abortions per day?How “safe” is 3,000 dead fetuses and/or embryos per day?

                Abortion is (sadly) legal. It’s not rare and it’s not safe.

                Abortion kills another body. Abortion always results in a death.

                To treat the embryo or fetus like “property” is the sin and injustice.

                Ideally men and women should value this precious life more than convenience, but we seem to be doing nothing to emphasize the moral worth of the fetus. In fact we do the opposite.

                I am proud that my religion (Catholicism) has not wavered and submitted to political correctness in the name of a phony pretense such as “women’s rights” or “choice” and defends the right of life from conception until natural death.

                • Pro-life is also a deceptive term. It should be pro-birth, or most pro-life proponents would be also anti-death penalty. They also would be more than willing to support a pregnant woman through her pregnancy and support her and her child beyond that point. Yet what is a woman called if she has a baby out of wedlock? Where does she turn to help her raise that child? Yeah.

                  There are also times when not having an abortion takes two lives: the child’s and the mother’s. What do pro-lifers say to the grieving families left behind?

                  • I don’t think there has ever been a law proposed that would not allow for exceptions when the mother’s life is in danger.

                    What does the death penalty have to do with anything? If you thing? If you thing “pro-life” is deceptive too, I would happily be called “anti-abortion.”

                    The death penalty is irrelevant to the abortion discussion. I personally oppose the death penalty, and even if you acknowledge that I’m being consistent, it won’t help the 3,000 babies who will be killed by abortion withing the next 24 hours. How does that number compare to those killed by the death penalty?

                    The fact is that the the womb is the most dangerous place to be.

                    There are many place for women to go who need shelter and help with their crisis pregnancies.

                    • “I don’t think there has ever been a law proposed that would not allow for exceptions when the mother’s life is in danger.”

                      That seals it: You’re just an ignoramus. Anti-abortion laws without exclusions are proposed every year in this country. Bobby Jindal was holding to that stricture just a few months ago. State legislators still try to push it through in almost every session.

                • Crisis of faith: Donald Trump’s revelations and the hypocrisy of the Christian Right
                  Why did it take this for one of this campaign’s great lies — that Trump is a fine Christian man — to be laid bare?
                  DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

                  Now that Donald Trump has failed twice in the space of a day to demonstrate the ability to apologize for criminal conduct he was caught boasting about on a hot microphone, let’s step back and ponder, to use his words, what the hell is going on.

                  How did the party that says it is for family values make such a vile old man its standard bearer? Why do so many leading Republicans stay with him or, gingerly, distanced themselves only after this latest revelation? How can any pastor endorse him, much less praise him as “a fine Christian man” and “unwavering in his commitment” to Christian concerns?

                  And why didn’t our major news organizations vet him, telling viewers, readers and listeners what the public record shows about his lifelong conduct from embracing violent felons to giving answers in interviews and presidential debates that are gibberish?

                  These questions all point in the same direction: our democracy is in deep trouble because we fail to respect the liberties and opportunities America makes possible as millions have come to view politics as nothing more than a reality television show.

                  For millions of people, strategy in a football game is worthy of occupying a large part of their brains. But politics, no way.

                  Republican politicians who are timid say they are appalled by Trump, but do not disavow him. Most of the few who have are Mormons, whose moral upbringing leaves no room to tolerate boasts about grabbing women by their genitals.

                  Pastors who favor the prosperity gospel, some of whom serve on Trump’s “evangelical executive advisory committee,” preach sacrifice and the duty Christ imposed on them to not just pray, but to provide for the poor. Like the apostate Muslim zealots who hate America, they are at one not with the Christian god but with Trump in spewing hatred of Muslims.

                  Consider the stance of Governor Mike Pence, Trump’s running mate, who says on the campaign trail that first he is a Christian and that Trump “tells it like it is.”

                  How can Pence not recognize that the man he embraces – and lies for, asserting Trump never said things that recordings show he did — espouses a philosophy that is aggressively anti-Christian. Jesus said to love everyone, even your enemies. Trump spews hatred against Mexicans (“they’re killers and rapists”) Muslims, Chinese, African Americans (“the blacks”) and he has been found in official proceedings to have discriminated against Asians, blacks, Puerto Ricans, and women.

                  Trump does this because as a world-class narcissist, and the son of a bigot arrested in a 1927 pitched battle by KKK members and supporters against New York City’s finest, he perceives others not as human beings but objects. Trump so loves money over people that he has complained about how much it cost him to have access to one of his second wife’s body parts.

                  It’s not Christian to cheat workers out of their wages, but Trump has done it all his life. He fought for 18 years to not fully pay illegal immigrants hired to demolish the old Bonwit Teller department store to make way for Trump Tower.

                  The Bible is full of admonitions to pay workers in full. Romans 4:4 says “to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due” and I Timothy 5:18 says “The laborer deserves to be paid.”

                  Trump’s more than 150 illegals were so desperate that some slept in winter cold in the unheated building they were demolishing. They were promised a mere $4 an hour (about $13 an hour in today’s money) the Old Testament at Deuteronomy 24:14-15 is especially on point, emphasis added:

                  You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land in one of your towns. You shall pay them their wages daily before sunset, because they are poor and their livelihood depends on them; otherwise they might cry to the Lord against you, and you would incur guilt.

                  That Trump does not feel the guilt he has earned was obvious when he tried for the first time in his public life to say sorry and blew it both times. First he issued a statement about his vile remarks that shifted responsibility from himself to us, saying he was sorry “if” he offended. The second time he said it happened a long time ago and he is not really like that and then read a statement attacking his opponent and her husband.

                  To actual Christians, seeking forgiveness from God is a constant and thus familiar experience.

                  Trump told CNN’s Anderson Cooper he has no such need. “Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness if I am not making mistakes?” Trump said.

                  Worse, Trump lied in his second attempt at apologizing. Trump, clearly reading from a script, said “I’ve never said I’m a perfect person, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not. I’ve said and done things I regret.”

                  So which is it? Trump never made a mistake and never needed to seek forgiveness? Or Trump says he is not perfect?

                  Welcome to the mind of Donald Trump, a 70-year-old man trapped for decades in the emotional maturity of a crude, nasty and insecure 13-year-old boy. That was when daddy sent him off to a military academy because he was what was known in the day as maladjusted. In The Making of Donald Trump, I take note of reports that Trump liked to throw rocks at toddlers in playpens, among other early signs that as an adult he would be manifestly unfit for any public office.

                  For Trump being emotionally stuck for decades in the worst year of pubescence has been awful and it has made him miserable, mean and lonely. But for America his immaturity has been a disaster. Cheating other businesses, wives, employees, tax rules and attacking others who point to this misconduct has hurt not just those individuals, but now that he is the Republican Party’s nominee for president he is damaging our democracy.

                  The many foreign journalists who have interviewed me about Trump it be past year all ask how could a country so great as America pay any attention to such a buffoon?

                  What Trump said on the tapes is not just crude, but an admission of criminal behavior.

                  Most crimes are never even investigated by police so it’s no surprise Trump has never been arrested. I once spent days with an aged hitman, his stories all verified by FBI and local police reports, who was immensely proud that he had never been booked.

                  Need any pastor know more to recognize that Trump is no Christian, but a deceiver who beguiles them with flattery as he commits not just adultery, but criminal sexual assaults on women?

                  But let’s offer these pastors more anyway.

                  Trump at great length, in different forums and over many years has declared a philosophy antithetical to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

                  “I always get even,” Trump wrote in the opening of chapter 6 in his book Think Big. He also writes, and said in a profanity-laced Colorado speech, that it gives him pleasure to ruin the lives of those who do not show absolute fealty to him.

                  “If someone screws you, you screw ‘em back ten times over. At least you can feel good about it. Boy, do I feel good,” Trump declared.

                  Revenge is anti-Christian. Pastors all know Matthew 5 where Christ, in the Sermon the Mount, instructs the faithful to turn the other cheek. Trump says those who follow this teaching are fools, idiots and, making clear he means the vilest definition of the Yiddish word, schmucks.

                  Of course since forgiveness is central to the Christian faith nonbelievers might think that Trump’s conduct must be forgiven. But in neither Old Testament or the New are the faithful told to enable or look the other way. Consider 1 Corinthians 5:11:

                  But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber. Do not even eat with such a one.

                  Trump’s claims to care about others are a fraud. He cheats people, he put the life of a sickly infant in jeopardy to get more money. And he says wages are too high.

                  Trump’s claims that he alone can fix America’s problems are a fraud. He doesn’t know anything about how democratic government works, not the duties, limits and powers of the presidency or how no bill becomes law without the approval of the Speaker, Paul Ryan, whom Trump gratuitously attacks.

                  Finally, be aware that Trump’s campaign has been a fraud from the get go.

                  Trump announced his campaign on June 16, 2015, with a racist, xenophobic rant at Trump Tower, a crowd clapping its approval.

                  How did the national politics reporters covering this fail to report the disconnect between this diatribe and Trump Tower being in Manhattan, the center of what Trump calls “political correctness?”

                  The seemingly adoring Trump Tower crowd broke into applause 43 times but it was not because they are members of the KKK or read Daily Stormer.

                  Those clapped on cue because they were actors paid fifty bucks each.

                  Ask not who is ruining your country, ask what you are doing to save it from Donald Trump and his enablers.

                  http://www.salon.com/2016/10/08/crisis-of-faith-donald-trumps-revelations-and-the-hypocrisy-of-the-christian-right/?source=newsletter

                  • Thank you for bringing the compass of morality back into view. Even more so maybe you have hit on something that clearly is being missed. Good ole common sense! It’s an understatement to say he is not a viable candidate. You have really brought the truth about this vile man full circle!!

                • Well said Benny. A woman’s choice to use birth control that is readily available should be the “woman’s choice.” Not the choice to kill a totally innocent baby due to her irresponsible choice.

                  • This “anonymous” is one of the many fake accounts used by the troll “Benny.”

                    Other fake accounts are: ” An “anonymous,” “Nan,” “A Woman,” “Anne Dresden,” “S,” “Tracy.”

                    You can tell because they all use the exact same quilt icon.

                • “phony pretense such as “women’s rights” or “choice”” god forbid women have the right to decide what they want to do with their bodies, instead of the government and especially men deciding for them. how horrible

                • Benny, please don’t comment on medical topics you clearly aren’t qualified to speak on. First of all, for some women, it is quite a health risk to both her and the baby for going forward with a delivery. And that choice to live or die is up to no one–not you, me, doctors and certainly not our government–but the mother, the woman who’s life is at risk. And for rape victims, tell me Benny, did those women have a choice? When I became pregnant a few years ago I learned something beautiful because my daughter came to my husband and I through love–that while a woman is pregnant she carries both the baby’s DNA and her DNA in her blood. Let that sink in. For the time that she is pregnant, her family is pulsing through her veins (as half of the baby’s DNA comes from the father.) Like I said, that was a beautiful and powerful moment for me, but it was a brief moment because immediately after I began to think about what a nightmare it would be if I had to pump a rapist’s blood through my body for almost a year. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. You see, in my study of the Bible, Jesus makes one thing very clear–love one another. He demonstrated that by nurturing and defending those who were cast aside by the self righteous, corrupt, and religious perverts. His compassion was and is his trademark. Tell me, Benny, where do you think Jesus is when a terrified teenager is in an abortion clinic? Because according to the Gospel, I’ll tell you exactly where he’d be–holding that young girl’s hand, assuring her that God will heal her body and her heart, and promising to stand beside her through the dark times that will surely lie ahead.

                  What I find most disturbing about these comments are that the majority of the men commenting are still defending Trump. John, I don’t know if the Christian Right men are any different. And it’s something I fear for my daughter everyday.

              • Women can do anything that want to with THEIR bodies. It is when they start thinking they can do whatever they want with the babies body that I get upset.

            • Funny tRump was very pro abortion until someone told him he’d get votes if he said he was anti abortion! Still yet ANOTHER stand he flipped on. What will he do if he outlaws abortion and gets one of his mistresses pregnant. Smh….

            • So let’s ignore every disgusting degenerate, thing he has said and done because he claims he will put justices in the court that will make it so women will risk their lives to get rid of a pregnancy they do not wish to carry. Yeah that makes sense. And how do you know he will even do what he has promised? He has promised workers he would pay them then defaulted on those payments.

            • Benny thinks that Trump will appoint justices who will overturn Roe v. Wade and we’ll enter into a golden era where there will be no abortions and everyone will turn to Christ.

              But the fact is, RvW will never be overturned. If it was going to be so, it would have been when six of nine justices were Republicans appointed since Reagan. When 5 of 9 were Roman Catholics. The thing is, justices almost never reverse prior rulings, especially one so often upheld as RvW.

              The way to reduce abortions to the bare minimum is through moral suasion and offering realistic alternatives – including the food stamps and welfare benefits so often derided. And birth control. Lots of birth control, made available to teens and young women without money.

              But those steps are anathema – why is that?

              Because they don’t reinforce the view of women that this article correctly assigns to the leaders of the religious right.

          • Read 50 Shades, it’s an accurate connection to make. That series is the very definition of an abusive relationship – not because it’s BDSM, which is capable of being perfectly healthy and enjoyable, but because Christian Grey is a sociopath who does nothing but mentally and emotionally abuse her from the start. He’s a stalker with no concept of how consent actually works, and no respect for his partner as a person. Yet women devour it like it’s candy and make it acceptable.

          • All of us are being ‘played’ by the media. They ‘played’ the Republican primary process – they could have dragged this out at any time during that process, but they wanted Trump – so they could tweak the party now and get a win for the abortionist party . . . looks like they played it all right – a Christian pastor writes this article to shame believers into following the media’s will – and believers are here beating each other up about treatment of women.

            Christians have failed – for sure – but it’s not about supporting Trump or not – it’s in turning away from the pure word of God – setting wicked things before our eyes; trusting in men (i.e., people) rather than God; not accounting for the words that come out of our mouths; allowing an ungodly media and educational groups to become so secularized / anti-christian they do not see the light that is still present for any who will seek it.

            We need to remember what God hates (Proverbs 6:16-19) – there is one candidate that hits all seven items listed. God is a God of love, our actions AND our words matter – we will have to account for them all one day. Let’s start fulfilling our Biblical obligations and stop being played / manipulated by the media.

        • Yeah, but your example doesn’t compare. Here we have a very experienced and prepared candidate who stood fast for her marriage (and you know what? When my man cheated I had words for the woman who knew full well he was married). And the other candidate has no experience and is the most ill-prepared candidate in history, AND he is a rapist.

          So ummmm

          • Whoa – gotta respond to that one – our CURRENT President is no doubt the least / worst prepared candidate ever – and that did not stop him from being a candidate, nor getting elected – twice . . . so – I’m not for Trump, but you need to get the facts straight. Again, I do not like Trump, but have to believe he would do better than Obama financially – we are $9,000,000,000,000.00 further in debt than we were 7.5 years ago – with NOTHING being done about it. This is really unforgivable.

        • He has never actually shown any signs of repentance, and you comparing his glaring character flaws to things that her husband did. She has every right to remain married to him and in fact if she was anyone else you would be patting her on the back for being a “good wife. ” such hypocrisy

        • I’m kinda flabbergasted you think Trump is a “very good” at anything.

          The very idea leaves me blinking it’s so delusional.

    • Classic mis direction. Don’t look here look there. Oh and by the way if Hilary said a few unkind things about the women who had affairs with her widely known husband I can understand that and will not hold it against her. We all are only human after all.

        • I could have more respect for your opinions if you admitted that you preferred to disregard both candidates due to unworthiness. Deflection does not examine the true issue. We are devolving as a Nation due to the apathy of letting others do the heavy lifting while WE the People check out. Donald is not a viable candidate to run for the highest office- no matter the rhetoric of JOBS JOBS JOBS & the notion of America to be great again? His actions toward women are criminal in addition to his blatant disregard to contribute to society by paying his fair share in taxes. I pay and you all pay as well, why doesn’t he? Why is it normal for Donald and those like him to create “legal loopholes” and then benefit from unethical practices? Slavery was once legal as well but never was it moral. Let’s stop confusing the two. The moral compass in America is off. WE don’t benefit when our alignment is with political parties over people in general. The parties cannot exist without us. Shouldn’t we put ourselves and the very best of ourselves forward to represent us? The current representation is sorely lacking yet WE have no thoughts about this and yet we defend the indefensible on both sides?

          • Simone, we could also add this.

            If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

          • OK – what is a ‘fair share’? No one anywhere has suggested Trump did something illegal with regard to taxes. He has paid taxes. He did not create any ‘loopholes’ you are blowing hot air. It has clearly been documented that Hillary has used the exact same laws that Trump legally used to keep from paying additional taxes – that neither were obliged to pay. If you want fair taxes, and you don’t believe current law provides this, then get the code changed (which has been within the possibility for Hillary, but all she offers is increasing the tax burden – more of the same – plus raising the rate on the ‘death tax’ – which is a bad thing in my opinion).

            I don’t think either major party candidate is good – but one is clearly for abortion, and supports having public money pay for abortion. She is also for issues of perversion. She has no track record of success in any adventure for our nation, but she has miraculous gains in her personal income – and has been paid by the richest corporations for her “speeches” – and I am to believe she cares one whit for me or my children?

            Trump MAY not be better, but he could not be worse. I am not saying I’m voting for him, but I am clearly saying I cannot vote for abortion – pro-death politicians . . . and Trump has said he has changed his position on abortion – he’s against it . . . as Romney did . . . as George Bush Sr. did – now, whether that will lead to something actually being done about it or not – that is another matter – I trust God to judge us all on this.

            • Ummm… are you overlooking the NYT article which revealed Trump may well have not paid taxes for over twenty years AND that he has refused to release his tax forms until the IRS is done with the audit even though the head of the IRS says there is no reason the audit would conflict with the release. I think it is far more likely T’s tax returns would should the same sort of mishandled finances that records of the Trump Foundation revealed. He syphoned money donated for charitable purposes into his own pocket.

              The Trump Foundation is under investigationby NY’s AG. The Senate has asked DHS to investigate him for possible human trafficking and employment of known undocumented workers. He is under investigation for racketeering with Trump U. He has had numerous court cases because of a refusal to pay people who work for him. He bribed the AG of FL. He tried to bribe Jeb Bush. He associates with members of organized crime.

              And that is the mere tip of the iceberg of his vile doings.

            • Wait a second….. We know exactly what Hilliary has paid in taxes. She released her taxes, and no one has brought up anything illegal or not right about her taxes. But we know that there were years that Trump, a self proclaimed millionaire, did not pay a dime. Did he use legal loopholes? Probably, but that does not sit well with me. I pay taxes and I can tell you I am no were near a millionaire. He is proud he outsmarted the government and didn’t do his civic duty. And he blames Hilliary for the loopholes still being there like she had all the power to remove them. She hasn’t and still won’t as President because Congress and the Senate have their say to. It’s like he doesn’t even know that much. Presidents have a lot of power but it’s not infinite.

        • No evidence that Bill rapes anyone. That is a pernicious lie. By lying and repeating lies you violate the commandment which tells us not to lie.

          If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

      • 11 women and counting… have credible accounts of sexual assault at the hands of Bill Clinton & have suffered from powerful character assassination by Hillary Clinton.

        Threatened into silence… More than a few of them were subjected to real death threats, more real assaults, robbery, burglary, death of pets.

    • John P., thank you again. You made a blanket generalization and I don’t think that helps your case. There some men on the Christian Right who do value women. However, most don’t. If one is a woman of brains, that woman will be trampled.

      80 Evangelical leaders have withdrawn their support from Trump. Many GOP politicians have withdrawn their endorsement.

      I would have thought his bigotted racist remarks would have been enough, but we also know that the Christian Right, for the most part believes sexual sins to be the worst sins of all despite the fact that to God sin is sin is sin.

      Please google the following:
      Here Are All The Republicans Dropping Their Support For Donald Trump

      Women Share Stories Of Sexual Assault To Show Trump What Rape Culture Looks Like

      A Declaration by American Evangelicals Concerning Donald Trump

      • Pro-abortion Hillary is no less pro-abortion because of a 10 year old Donald Trump sin.

        He still gets my vote. I’m disappointed, but he said he was sorry and Christians are called to forgive.

        NOBODY who is voting for Trump, least of all Christians, are voting BECAUSE of those comments, but in spite of them. To suggest otherwise is lying.

        • Benny, you vote for Trump and you prove that Christian values are no part of your life. You don’t care that Trump breaks many Commandments.

          I can no longer take you seriously as a brother in Christ. Because of one issue,myou would vote for the man who has embraced evil his whole life.

          You read John’s blog because you are a judgmental nasty man and I will never respond to you again because you introduce red herrings and are a troll.

            • The last time I heard—the numbers do not lie. Nate is a widely regarded genius by all who know him. If Nate says it is going to “be like this,” you can pretty much bet your life on it and sleep extremely well every night. Nate’s numbers say Trump does not have a prayer on November 8. You can take that to the bank!!!

        • And, how about the women who are pregnant and seek abortions because they have been raped because this country already has a disturbing culture of too many men thinking “Aw women really want it, despite what they say”? Your quick dismissal of his long, history of sexism and demeaning women.
          What’s disturbing to me are the people so fiercely married to being anti-abortion that they’ll still make a deal with the devil to overlook behavior that is flat out unacceptable for a commander-in-chief

          • Nice try but being pro-life and pro-rape do not go together.

            It’s our abortion culture which allows men to go from flower to flower, impregnating women and then destroying the inconvenient child that interferes with his fun.

            Hillary’s behavior is unacceptable as well as are her policies.

            If Trump is not better in a positive sense than Hillary, at least he is the lesser of two evils.

            No deal is being made with the devil by voting for Trump. I expect that the Devil will vote a straight Democratic ticket. More of his work will be done under Democrats than Republicans.

            • I’m rolling on the floor laughing because this is so ridiculous. So, the men go flower to flower and then force the women to have abortions? You really think this is how it works??? You think men get to go around and force women to have abortions because they’re just horn dogs. No, too many of these types of men vanish. They disappear since THEY aren’t the ones who have to make the agonizing decision (do you really think most people WANT abortion?). Clearly your comments reflect a belief that men rule women, and women don’t have the authority to make decisions about their own bodies. I hope reincarnation is indeed a reality so you get to experience being a woman who is abused and impregnated by some cavalier misogynist like Trump, and then abandoned and left alone to make decisions for your life.
              Just be clear here, and state that you are hardcore anti-abortion and nothing else in this campaign really matters. Your pact with the devil is doing this while turning a blind to eye to a man who spews more hate, more bigotry, more demeaning treatments of women, more blatant disregard for hardworking Americans (stiffing so many on people on his way to make his “fortune”) – and a person who lies prolifically (numerous independent fact checking services confirm this). No, all you see is anti-abortion, would be my guess. Yes, you have made a pact with the devil.

            • Gotta jump in here, because you are so wrong about pro-choice options encourge rape. Rape is about power and demeaning a woman. It’s not about making babies, it’s about pain, and degredation. I’m speaking from experience here. Taking a risk that you, as a proclaimed Chistian man, will take a breath and hear me. I have LIVED rape. For years. Perpetrated by the very “Christian” men who should have protected me. I’ve spent the last half of my life healing, finding myself, putting my shatterd self back together and am a strong, healthy woman. Rape is about power and pain. So is child abuse which can include rape. Did for me. I spent my career fighting it. Have you ever seen the body of a child beaten to death, shaken to death? Probably not. Hilary is pro-CHOICE, as am I, which is NOT pro-abortion. Pro-choice means we believe birth control should be easily available not because I believe it’s right for teenagers to have sex , because I don’t, but I’m not stupid. Kids ARE having sex, and I’d rather they be protected so they DON’T need an abortion. Having a baby is one of the mosy medically dangerous things a woman will ever face. At age 12, 14, 16 even more so. If a woman becomes pregnant, especially from rape, or in the case of medical endangerment, she should have the CHOICE to terminate. Until YOU personally are willing to adopt, and or foster at least one of the THOUSANDS of unwanted children in your State alone, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Until YOU have LIVED rape, with all it’s horrific consequences, you may never understand voting for Trump will guarantee your daughter, your sister, your gradnddaughter will be at risk of his “normal attentions”. Rape.

      • No evidence that Trump has said racist things. That is a pernicious lie. By lying and repeating lies you violate the commandment which tells us not to lie.

        If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

        Trump clearly said the US should act to stop the many illegal immigrants who are coming in from Mexico, violating our laws and harming our citizens. That has been extrapolated to “All Mexicans are rapists . . .” – and that is not what he said.

        Looks to me like someone needs to take their own advice.

    • And what is the point of your comment? Because it smells suspiciously like a justification of Trump’s action by implying that the “other guys” are just as bad. More of the same minimizing and excusing the degradation of women.

    • I’m the Heathen Left, A Pagan High Priestess. Yes women do matter to us. Don’t speak of what you do not know. This isn’t about Bill Clinton, stop using that as an excuse to deflect.

        • And who appointed you judge and jury? He has never been convicted of rape. Or, does that not factor in your book? Did the clouds part and did God tell you Bill Clinton is guilty of rape? You’ve judged him and made a lot of assumptions based on that.

      • This is a false account. This is one of the exact same quilt icons “Benny” uses. “Benny” is not who he/she claims he/she is.

        TROLL ALERT

    • “But what about Bill Clinton?? BENGHAZI!!!!”

      It’s the Deflective Donald Defense Shuffle!!

      Dance, little tin godless. Dance.

          • You sho no repect for anyone in the line of discussion to the point you are irrelevant. Respect is earned, not demanded. You claim you’re Christian? How about Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And I’m the Anonymous who responded to Benny about rape not having anything to do with pro-choice. And I’m Anonymous because one of my rapist is still stalking me. Everywhere.

            • Benny is a troll. His/her quilt icon is shared by many people who may or may not be him/her. I have asked John P to check IP addresses.

              After all, one person having several accounts and posting under different names is a form of lying.

              Trolls need to be identified so we don’t feed them.

              I am sorry that you are also a rape survivor. I was sexually molested as a child and raped by my evangelical Christian husband who thought he owned my body.

              • Im sorry for you pain and probably understand your anger better than most. However, nothing gives anyone the right to be disrespectful. Disagreement is what debate is all about. You were treated badly so you know how it feels. If we, those who have suffered the most profound disrepect – rape- want to be heard, want to heal, want to be whole, we shouls at least try to speak from compassionate understanding, because who bettervunderstands disrespect and the damage it does. You can call someone on their stuff without insulting them. Trump is the worst at this disrespect. He bullies and intimidates, he repeats nasty things until people believe they are true. He lashes out when anyone disagrees with him. Do any of us want to be like him? I surely don’t. So don’t you. Please. Take a breath, let whoever have their say. It’s a FREE country last time I checked with freedom of speech guaranteed.

                  • Calling anyone names is going low. It is what aTrump would do, certainly not what Christ would do. To be respected as a Christian, you need to act like one. Nastiness is not what Christ would do. People like you, who are do as I say, not as I do are exactly why I left the hypcritic world of organized ‘churchiology’ behind.

    • Just a reminder folks Bill Clinton was impeached for his behavior. Actions were taken when his behaviors were made known-yes his wife lashed out at the women he cheated on her with, was that right? No, is it understandable as a wife in love with her husband? Yes. And she stayed and saved their marriage, that used to be considered a good thing.

    • It is people like you that perpetuate the stigma on women., you should be ASHAMED OF YOURSELF., as you try to justify this behaviour by saying others’ have done the same. NONE ARE ACCEPTABLE.
      I just cannot understand still seeing women rallying on behalf of this less than a man and actually supporting him. They obviously have no respect for themselves and then they wonder why “some men” think this is O.K. mind boggling.

      • Bob, thank you. It is good to know that there are men who get it. I don’t understand how any Christian can take that despicable man seriously at all let alone consider him presidential material. But I am comforted by the fact he will make even more of a fool of himself than he did the last time.

        If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

    • Oh yes please, please let’s show just how much of a creep you really are. Someone tells women they don’t see us like D. Trump and his pile of sycophants, and you turn it into a political attack. What else is new, that is how “the Church” handles anything they can’t control. Go sit back in your pew and thump your Bible and continue to feel all holier than thou.

    • Two wrongs have never made a right. It’s a bit childish to point at others and say you do it too. One Hilary is not responsible for the acts of her husband and two most women would be angry at the “other” women who knowingly cavorted with a married man. It’s not like these other women could say oh he lied to me as unless they were living under a rock they would have to know Bill is married. What John is talking about here goes way beyond marriage infidelity. It is a whole mindset that says women are less than and I for one strongly object to having a president who has no respect for women.

  2. It is why I am part of the Christian Left. For all the Christian Rights purity talk it is just rape culture. How Dobson and his ilk can reconcile this, I have no idea. Actually promoting a man (monster) who advocates breaking marital vows and degrades women by rating them and calling us by vulgar body parts. No thank you. #NEVERTrump #I’mWithHer

    • JP is being such a weasel in this commentary. We of the “Christian right” in no way condone what Trump said in a private conversation over ten years ago. Trump himself doesn’t condone it.

      We are not voting for Trump because we love whatever sins he committed. We are voting for him because he would make a better president than Hillary, who has her own skeletons, such as enabling her sexual predator husband.

      I am voting for Trump because his policies most align with my Catholic Christian principles, one of them being that it’s unjust to kill innocent life in the womb, but even that compassion is twisted by the left to be “against women.”

      Does JP ever say anything nice about other Christians or it is his schtick to always be denigrating them?

      This is a very sad and unfair article.

      • Trump aligns with your Catholic Christian principles? Are you serious? Read what Pope Francis has said and written, especially in the last year, and compare what he teaches about the Gospel with Trump’s rhetoric. They can’t be farther apart.

        • His policies do.

          Hillary is pro-abortion. To a Catholic that’s the same thing as baby killing. Trump has the decency to oppose it.

          I don’t like what he said over ten years ago, but it can be forgiven, just like the left forgave Clinton for something a lot worse than crude talk WHILE IN OFFICE.

          • Guess who also outlawed abortion for his country’s women … and went on to be responsible for some 50 million deaths….yep good ol Adolf Hitler

            • It’s an interesting coincidence that about 50 million innocent lives were snuffed out in the US since abortion became legal. You’ve killed as many as Hitler did.

              I believe it’s false that Hitler outlawed abortion, but the logic doesn’t follow that having compassion for the unborn means killing born people.

              Did you know Hilter liked ice cream? I sure hope you don’t like it too…

            • Mel… abortion in every country has always been illegal. (except pagan societies). Germany loosened the abortion laws in 1926 to allow for saving the life of the Mother. In Hitler’s day, (46′) abortion (still illegal) was a capital offense for Aryan Mothers. (obviously he didn’t care what the Jewish mothers did.) But the Jews never aborted their children. As they already had Gods Law about that.

          • Benny, he doesn’t have any “policies.” He has never been in public service.

            But he does have a record of doing business that flies in the face of what you say is important to you. He doesn’t pay contractors and small businessmen who have provided goods and services to his enterprises. He has his lines of products manufactured in China and other low-wage countries. Rather than hire American workers, he has arranged for visas for low-wage workers from Eastern Europe and elsewhere. He has touted recessions that hurt average people as great for his portfolio and business.

            Now, to the issue that most seems to concern you. Trump has been PRO-CHOICE pretty much his whole life. (As well as being a Democrat for a LONG time.) He only changed his stance when he decided to seek the GOP nomination. Because he had to do that to further his ambition. And he is on the record calling pregnancy a major inconvenience for business. That you can tout him as a pro-life champion doesn’t make sense.

            You know, I don’t care for whom people vote. That’s a person decision. However, as a Christian, I DO care when people present someone like Trump as the moral and Christian choice. That is offensive to anyone for whom Gospel values are important. Trump mocks religion and couldn’t conduct himself farther from Christian imperatives if he tried.

              • I would look at his policies (past and proposed) to decide. Seems like a decent human. Released his tax returns. Don’t know much about him. Feel a bit sorry for him having to defend DT’s indefensible, outrageous statements.

              • Are you for real Benny., do you not know anything about your politicians or is it just because your mammy and pappy and granny were Republican?
                Gosh, look at the policies of Pence and his ilk as well., there is nothing Christian about this man., but, he knows how to get his bread buttered. Enough said..

                • Bob, Benny is a troll and a hypocrite. He is one of the people to whom this applies.

                  If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

                • I’m voting for Trump because of his policies. I don’t know the party affiliation of my grandparents. My parents were not very political. My father voted for LBJ. Knowing what I know now, I would have voted for Goldwater had I not been a child. I believe my parents voted for Reagan. I did too, but not because of them. I could see for myself that he would be a great president, and that’s what he turned out to be.

                  My parents were not Catholics either. I choose to be a Catholic well into my adult years.

                  What does what my parents or grandparents believed have to do with anything? It seems to me you are the typical smug and condescending liberal like JP and you think that anyone who doesn’t think as you do is stupid and ignorant, or a very bad person. Am I right?

                  I would rather it be Pence than Trump. I admit that. I don’t like Trump’s personal flaws, but I think he would be a better president then Hillary. I don’t think liberal policies serve our country well. My main disagreement with Trump is regarding trade. We should have open trade.

                  • Crisis of faith: Donald Trump’s revelations and the hypocrisy of the Christian Right
                    Why did it take this for one of this campaign’s great lies — that Trump is a fine Christian man — to be laid bare?
                    DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

                    Now that Donald Trump has failed twice in the space of a day to demonstrate the ability to apologize for criminal conduct he was caught boasting about on a hot microphone, let’s step back and ponder, to use his words, what the hell is going on.

                    How did the party that says it is for family values make such a vile old man its standard bearer? Why do so many leading Republicans stay with him or, gingerly, distanced themselves only after this latest revelation? How can any pastor endorse him, much less praise him as “a fine Christian man” and “unwavering in his commitment” to Christian concerns?

                    And why didn’t our major news organizations vet him, telling viewers, readers and listeners what the public record shows about his lifelong conduct from embracing violent felons to giving answers in interviews and presidential debates that are gibberish?

                    These questions all point in the same direction: our democracy is in deep trouble because we fail to respect the liberties and opportunities America makes possible as millions have come to view politics as nothing more than a reality television show.

                    For millions of people, strategy in a football game is worthy of occupying a large part of their brains. But politics, no way.

                    Republican politicians who are timid say they are appalled by Trump, but do not disavow him. Most of the few who have are Mormons, whose moral upbringing leaves no room to tolerate boasts about grabbing women by their genitals.

                    Pastors who favor the prosperity gospel, some of whom serve on Trump’s “evangelical executive advisory committee,” preach sacrifice and the duty Christ imposed on them to not just pray, but to provide for the poor. Like the apostate Muslim zealots who hate America, they are at one not with the Christian god but with Trump in spewing hatred of Muslims.

                    Consider the stance of Governor Mike Pence, Trump’s running mate, who says on the campaign trail that first he is a Christian and that Trump “tells it like it is.”

                    How can Pence not recognize that the man he embraces – and lies for, asserting Trump never said things that recordings show he did — espouses a philosophy that is aggressively anti-Christian. Jesus said to love everyone, even your enemies. Trump spews hatred against Mexicans (“they’re killers and rapists”) Muslims, Chinese, African Americans (“the blacks”) and he has been found in official proceedings to have discriminated against Asians, blacks, Puerto Ricans, and women.

                    Trump does this because as a world-class narcissist, and the son of a bigot arrested in a 1927 pitched battle by KKK members and supporters against New York City’s finest, he perceives others not as human beings but objects. Trump so loves money over people that he has complained about how much it cost him to have access to one of his second wife’s body parts.

                    It’s not Christian to cheat workers out of their wages, but Trump has done it all his life. He fought for 18 years to not fully pay illegal immigrants hired to demolish the old Bonwit Teller department store to make way for Trump Tower.

                    The Bible is full of admonitions to pay workers in full. Romans 4:4 says “to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due” and I Timothy 5:18 says “The laborer deserves to be paid.”

                    Trump’s more than 150 illegals were so desperate that some slept in winter cold in the unheated building they were demolishing. They were promised a mere $4 an hour (about $13 an hour in today’s money) the Old Testament at Deuteronomy 24:14-15 is especially on point, emphasis added:

                    You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land in one of your towns. You shall pay them their wages daily before sunset, because they are poor and their livelihood depends on them; otherwise they might cry to the Lord against you, and you would incur guilt.

                    That Trump does not feel the guilt he has earned was obvious when he tried for the first time in his public life to say sorry and blew it both times. First he issued a statement about his vile remarks that shifted responsibility from himself to us, saying he was sorry “if” he offended. The second time he said it happened a long time ago and he is not really like that and then read a statement attacking his opponent and her husband.

                    To actual Christians, seeking forgiveness from God is a constant and thus familiar experience.

                    Trump told CNN’s Anderson Cooper he has no such need. “Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness if I am not making mistakes?” Trump said.

                    Worse, Trump lied in his second attempt at apologizing. Trump, clearly reading from a script, said “I’ve never said I’m a perfect person, nor pretended to be someone that I’m not. I’ve said and done things I regret.”

                    So which is it? Trump never made a mistake and never needed to seek forgiveness? Or Trump says he is not perfect?

                    Welcome to the mind of Donald Trump, a 70-year-old man trapped for decades in the emotional maturity of a crude, nasty and insecure 13-year-old boy. That was when daddy sent him off to a military academy because he was what was known in the day as maladjusted. In The Making of Donald Trump, I take note of reports that Trump liked to throw rocks at toddlers in playpens, among other early signs that as an adult he would be manifestly unfit for any public office.

                    For Trump being emotionally stuck for decades in the worst year of pubescence has been awful and it has made him miserable, mean and lonely. But for America his immaturity has been a disaster. Cheating other businesses, wives, employees, tax rules and attacking others who point to this misconduct has hurt not just those individuals, but now that he is the Republican Party’s nominee for president he is damaging our democracy.

                    The many foreign journalists who have interviewed me about Trump it be past year all ask how could a country so great as America pay any attention to such a buffoon?

                    What Trump said on the tapes is not just crude, but an admission of criminal behavior.

                    Most crimes are never even investigated by police so it’s no surprise Trump has never been arrested. I once spent days with an aged hitman, his stories all verified by FBI and local police reports, who was immensely proud that he had never been booked.

                    Need any pastor know more to recognize that Trump is no Christian, but a deceiver who beguiles them with flattery as he commits not just adultery, but criminal sexual assaults on women?

                    But let’s offer these pastors more anyway.

                    Trump at great length, in different forums and over many years has declared a philosophy antithetical to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

                    “I always get even,” Trump wrote in the opening of chapter 6 in his book Think Big. He also writes, and said in a profanity-laced Colorado speech, that it gives him pleasure to ruin the lives of those who do not show absolute fealty to him.

                    “If someone screws you, you screw ‘em back ten times over. At least you can feel good about it. Boy, do I feel good,” Trump declared.

                    Revenge is anti-Christian. Pastors all know Matthew 5 where Christ, in the Sermon the Mount, instructs the faithful to turn the other cheek. Trump says those who follow this teaching are fools, idiots and, making clear he means the vilest definition of the Yiddish word, schmucks.

                    Of course since forgiveness is central to the Christian faith nonbelievers might think that Trump’s conduct must be forgiven. But in neither Old Testament or the New are the faithful told to enable or look the other way. Consider 1 Corinthians 5:11:

                    But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber. Do not even eat with such a one.

                    Trump’s claims to care about others are a fraud. He cheats people, he put the life of a sickly infant in jeopardy to get more money. And he says wages are too high.

                    Trump’s claims that he alone can fix America’s problems are a fraud. He doesn’t know anything about how democratic government works, not the duties, limits and powers of the presidency or how no bill becomes law without the approval of the Speaker, Paul Ryan, whom Trump gratuitously attacks.

                    Finally, be aware that Trump’s campaign has been a fraud from the get go.

                    Trump announced his campaign on June 16, 2015, with a racist, xenophobic rant at Trump Tower, a crowd clapping its approval.

                    How did the national politics reporters covering this fail to report the disconnect between this diatribe and Trump Tower being in Manhattan, the center of what Trump calls “political correctness?”

                    The seemingly adoring Trump Tower crowd broke into applause 43 times but it was not because they are members of the KKK or read Daily Stormer.

                    Those clapped on cue because they were actors paid fifty bucks each.

                    Ask not who is ruining your country, ask what you are doing to save it from Donald Trump and his enablers.

                    http://www.salon.com/2016/10/08/crisis-of-faith-donald-trumps-revelations-and-the-hypocrisy-of-the-christian-right/?source=newsletter

          • Trump has not always opposed abortion and if you are all so anti abortion why not support organizations that try to prevent pregnancy in the first place?

      • Adultrey, assault, and cheating are Catholic values? A man speaks what is in his heart. Trump has flip flopped on his positions over the years. He used to support abortion. Now he doesn’t because he is just trying to buy your vote. Lots of ways to reduce abortion. Look at Colorado, this state has reduced abortions significantly over the last 5 years by increasing access to birth control. I would rather prevent the pregnancy than have someone terminate a pregnancy. (Lower cost, lower psych impact) I refuse to be a one position voter, I look at the entire platform. Before you think that I am a hardcore Democrat, I am actually a register Republican, but have often voted across party lines. My stance this year is that I will not vote for anyone that supports Trump. I owe it to my daughter. She is precious and valuable and should not be reduced to a number or a body part. She is smart, dedicated, and shouldn’t have to be ogled by creepy old men. Or have her career path be impacted on whether or not she puts up with sexual harassment.

        • Donald Trump is no threat to your daughter and electing Hillary and her womanizing husband will not eradicate lust from the world.

          Do we or do we not forgive sins, especially those that were repented of and that are over ten years old? The real evil here is in the release of that tape. It wasn’t done for the sake of women, but for the sake of acquiring power.

          I resent that Trump supporters are being portrayed here as supporters of something Trump himself has renounced.

          I find it sad that JohnP seems to be making a career out of attacking Christians. What he appears to me to be is a Democrat hack disguised as some kind of touchy-feely New Age “christian” where anything goes and the only sin is being a Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.

          And I think that “one issue” of killing babies in the womb is important enough to trump (no pun intended) many other issues. I realize that there are some pro-abortion Republicans, but thankfully the majority have compassion for the unborn. JohnP does not and chalks that up as being “for women.”

          As a Catholic I don’t support the use of contraception. It’s use is intrinsically evil. And its acceptance by Christians helped usher in our abortion culture where pregnancies are unwanted and treated as diseases and abortion becomes “contraception part two.”

          What we really need to do is teach people to be respectful of each other and not engage in sexual practices until in a stable marriage, and also teach them the value of life from conception until natural death.

          I am voting for Trump and against Hillary. Trump has better policies and as much as I can see that he is a flawed man, his flaws are dwarfed by those of his opponent.

          At any rate, we’re all free to choose, but JohnP’s continual bashing of Christians is really disgusting and offensive.

          • The only reason Trump apologized (had to do it 2 times) is that the tapes were released. Outside of the personal disdain I have for Trump (have never liked him, I thought his Apprentice show was horrific) his economic policies have been denounced has harmful to our economy, his “love” for Putin and his tendencies of spouting off make this military mama very uncomfortable. His comments about torture have put a target on every service members back. If he cared about jobs in America so much, why did he move his companies out of the US. His not releasing his tax returns is problematic because we don’t know what foreign country he is beholden to. Trump is for Trump. If you think he is for the middle class working people, your are so mistaken. He hurt so many small businesses in his bankruptcies so that he could profit. And yes, Trump can impact my daughter. Already we are seeing the “Trump” effect in elementary, middle, and high schools. Kids who are being told they will be deported (even tho they and their parents are citizens), mocking disabled children, and racism rearing its ugly head.

            • Wow, you bought into the lie that Trump mocked a disabled man.

              Check out the real story on catholics4trump.com if you’re interested in the truth and not repeating this lie.

              • Again. All lives are of value, not just the unborn. Trump knew the reporter and knew of his disability and mimicked it. I have seen the unedited video of the SC rally and yes, DT did mock the reporter. He has also called women pigs, slobs and gold diggers. I would like to see the abortion rate to continue to drop (as it has over the last several years) but it is not realistic to believe that people will not be sexually active. You may not agree with contraception (and that is your right) however, I would rather prevent a pregnancy in the 1st place. With the name “benny” I am assuming you are a male. My body, my choice. As a female who had 2 challenging pregnancies and deliveries, we (my husband and I) decided that we were done. Contraception gave us that ability. We get to make the decision that is right for our family. You don’t get to make that decision for us. You don’t get to make that decision for anyone other than your family. If you choose not to use contraception that is your choice.

                • Did I try to impose my Catholic morality on your personal situation? I can’t support contraception as the means to ending the injustice of abortion because I believe it is immoral and has been the gateway to abortion. It makes an enemy of pregnancy.

                  DT did NOT mock the reporter’s DISABILITY. His disability did not cause spastic movements. Trump made the exact same gesture other times when dealing with an opponent. (And yes anyone in the mainstream media is his opponent. They are all working for Hillary).

      • I find it unsettling that some on the right are all about protecting the unborn but don’t really care two cents about the multitudes killed and murdered in all sorts of ways that are inexcusable and preventable.

        I say Benny; cast the first stone when all deaths are so valuable that you would elect a man who thinks nothing of outright theft, willing to bomb others to scorched earth, give every country nuclear bombs, sacrifice those who don’t look or think like he does – oh yes, tell us about your pious save the babies while all other types of mayhem exist.

        Oh I know, you will have a strong comeback but it will only solidify the position you believe in and not move a single other soul.

        • So we should kill the babies until every other form of unjust death ends?

          No strong comeback. This thread keeps crashing my computer…

          • Benny. Just a small tip. I had a really good ad blocker put on my new computer, which has more RAM and a faster download time. Both together completely cured my computer crashing on this site. Most of the crashes are caused by video ads that cannot fully download and play because the idiots who post them for WordPress sites like this one accidentally leave bugs in the video programming and are apparently not aware they are present—or else they are careless and just do not care. Try an Ad Blocker on your computer.

      • Benny
        I have no problem with JP pointing out that too many who claim to be Christian exhibit very in Christ like behavior.

        • Thanks for the tip about ad blocking.

          What I find most disturbing about JP is that he constantly attacks Christians, and does not allow for any possibility that they might have good motives. If they are in disagreement with JP’s theology, then they are very bad people.

          We don’t knock other Christians in my church in spite of our disagreements with theology. We wouldn’t even know JP in spite of his off-the-wall brand of Christianity. We state what we are and why we believe and people are free to come and see for themselves. I don’t understand his relentless attacks. Does he have anything good to say about other Christians. Does he have anything positive to attract others to his beliefs besides pointing at others and not being them?

            • John P…. I hope [John P] configures a new format here. It’s unworkable, no editing, and too spread out. John P is an artist. I think he does well with his graphics and the ‘look’, but it’s not functional. ‘Form follows Function’, is the first and best, rule of design. I think this sluggish format adds to peoples frustrations, and we can even see their temperatures rise & rise. Help us John P. thank you.

      • Catholic Christian Values? Really, you are a sad and unfair individual, my values in no way are represented by Trump., nor are most Catholics that I know. Can you imagine if the Pope made these comments, oh.oh, I forgot we have Priests who have done the same, and it was shoved under the rug, and now you want to do the same here. Vote him in and God forbid what would happen to the Country. This is all so gross..

        • It’s the hypocrisy that gets to me, Bob. I am going to repeat myself here.

          If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

        • All can be forgiven. I forgive Trump those comments from over 10 years ago. I can overlook his present personal faults and see that his policies are better than those of his opponent.

          I would not want him to be the Pope or my spiritual adviser.

          I am and other Catholics are well aware of scandals within our Church and they grieve us and have hurt us too. We are doing better, but evil will always be looking to worm its way in and destroy our Holy Church.

  3. Thank you John this is beautiful. The many men out there like you remind me of how Jesus loved and respected women. Keep speaking out ..we need your voice rising above misogyny..speaking as Christ would!

    • Do you think Jesus would forgive Donald of this 10 year old sin, especially since he had denounced it and apologized for it?

      John is not just speaking out against misogyny–he is using religion to campaign for Hillary Clinton by attacking all Christians who won’t vote for her.

      • If trump was really sorry, he would not have kept up the derogatory statements over the last 10 years. However, he has continued. In my world, being sorry means you don’t continue the behavior. I can accept the apology, however, that does not mean that there are not consequences for the behavior. My child can break a window and say he is sorry. The consequences are that he has to pay for the broken window. DT consequences are that we all get to see what a pig he is. Advocating breaking marital vows, assault, and boorish behavior.

      • English fool!!! He fake denounced it and fake apologized for it because he saw it as a threat to his campaign. If you will recall, according to Trump himself, he has never done anything that he would need forgiveness for doing. Trump is on the hot seat right now, and just like any common criminal, he would gladly apologize to get off the hot seat.

      • How conveniently you overlook Trump’s comments about Meghan Kelly – just months ago.
        “You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes,” Trump told CNN’s Don Lemon on Friday night. “Blood coming out of her wherever.”
        Sure, he says he’s sorry, but until he has a track record of truly supporting women, your arguments just sputter out and die.

  4. Thanks for saying what’s right. Politics shouldn’t make you forget about decency and respect. I think some of these people are still looking for a saviour. Fear of losing their comfortable life.

  5. Too little too late. I stand up for myself nowadays. Thanks anyway! You are speaking from a man’s point of view. I am not a victim. I don’t need a hero. I am whole without a man. I am looking for a man who sees me as not someone who needs to be rescued! Nor do I want to rescue a man. Can we all just please play nice?

  6. I totally agree. I find it confounding that women of the Christian Right are also making excuses for him. I am appalled. While I am at it, bring up Bill Clinton is deflection. Address Trump’s statements and deeds. My guess is people can’t therefore they bring up Bill’s past misdeeds.

  7. Thank you, John. I’m sure this is heart-felt.

    But singling out the Christian Right doesn’t get to the root of the problem. Discrimination against, abuse and denigration of women is pervasive and there are so many justifications used and inherent biases at play.

    The religious Left is equally guilty when it jumps on the gender bandwagon. Much of that reduces gender identity to esoterics and defines “womanhood” or the feminine to appearances — how one dresses, breasts/breast sizes, and preferred sexual activity. There is much more to being a woman than that and, I’m sorry, but a male can’t insist that he “feels like a woman” when he has no idea what that entails. Many feminists have been harassed and threatened by some in the transgender community simply for asserting this. And for defending themselves in the face of real cruelty from being told they’re “not really women” because they don’t dress to the nines and enjoy wearing a lot of makeup and such. I have seen this firsthand.

    But where is the Left then? Any movement, group, or person that permits women and womanhood to be reduced and diminished has contributed to this problem. People who tell young boys that, yes, they probably are really girls inside because they like to wear the clothing/accessories and play in a fashion that society associates with girls is contributing to the problem.

    Lesbians who feel most comfortable wearing pants and enjoying outdoor and more physical pursuits have been told they’re “transgendered” in this new paradigm. NO. They’re women who simply choose esoterics outside of the societal norm. The same goes for men who may like feminine dress and female-associated activities. What you wear is NOT whom you are.

    Societies that value physical strength, appearances, intense competition, and material accomplishments tend toward paternalism as the basis for judgment. And find the feminine wanting because the feminine is intrinsically far more than that.

    Whether one is justifying bias with a literal reading of the Bible or telling males they can and should become women because they like to dress and act the part according to society’s steretypes, it’s all the same. Women lose.

  8. Strong words but exactly right; needs to be taught in every home, school, family and especially to those who think they have a right to help themselves to any dogma that only serves them.

  9. Benny, I find it odd that folks like you speak about forgiveness for Donald Trump but never for Bill Clinton. Clinton’s affairs are now 20+ years in the past and there has been no indication he’s continued that conduct since. Trump continues this behavior and demeaning of women. It’s simply whom he is. That first “apology” which wasn’t written and choreographed for him stated he was sorry IF some found it offensive. Clearly, then, he still doesn’t.

    Forgivess and absolution work only if the penitent fully acknowledges the sin, expresses sincere remorse, and resolves to try to change. Trump has no intention of changing — he calls women “pigs.” Now. Still.

    • In the leaked emails Colin Powell referred to Clinton as “still d…..g bimbos at home, according to nyp.”

      I do’t believe Clinton’s bad behavior is in the past. But that’s the least of their corruption. Most of it has to do with using their positions to rake in millions.

      I honestly wish it were Mike Pence instead of Trump. He’s a good and decent man and would be a good president. Would you vote for him if he somehow replaced Trump?

      Otherwise, I’m forced to choose the better candidate or the lesser of two evils, and Trump wins looking at it either way, and I’ll vote for him.

  10. What was heard on the Trump tape was more than “just unkind words” but descriptions of the criminal acts Trump had done and could continue to do.

  11. John,
    Painting with such a broad brush stains the innocent as well as the guilty. I have friends on the Christian Right who would never condone actions or words such as you have described. Such over-the-top vehemence creates even more divisiveness and discord, with no solution except exterminating the ‘other side’. Such rhetoric is way too prevasive these days. How sad! No wonder the nation is so divided.

    • Yeah. Right. Dwayne. That’s like saying: “You go ahead and hate n-words all you want and oppress them as much as possible. I will not criticize it one little bit because to do so would divide us.”

      Bullshit Dwayne!!! The purpose of the criticism is not to divide. The purpose is to motivate people to put an end to the oppression forever—to stomp it out of existence like a piece of paper on fire on the sidewalk. Stomp!!! Stomp!!! Stomp!!! Fire out!!!

      Then you hear the whine. “But, but, but… I am an American citizen too. My mom and dad taught me to hate n-words. It’s just part and parcel of who I am…and I don’t know how to be any other way. I have free speech. I can denounce n-words all I want. This is a free country!!!

      Yes you can…but do not expect people to appreciate you for it or pat you on the back for it. I wish to create a world where African-Americans feel loved and accepted—and have good, happy, and fulfilled lives—because that is what God would want in his Holy Kingdom.

  12. Thank you for this post! Please stop referring to the Right as the “Christian Right,” as there is little Christian about it. Perhaps Religious Right, as would be a more accurate term!

      • Sorry, I see very little resemblance to the Jesus of the Gospels in the Christian Right which has pretty much accepted and teach the heresy that is the prosperity gospel.

        If you are a Christian and are willing to forgive the candidates of one party for the same things you condemn the candidates of another party for doing, you are no longer acting as a Christian.

      • This is a false account. This is one of the exact same quilt icons that Benny” uses. “Benny” is not who he/she claims he/she is.

        TROLL ALERT

        • Actually it’s not matching now. I am coming up with two different icons on the same email address. Or possibly I used a different email in some of my posts, but the same name. At any rate, the real Benny does not post as those other handles.

          • Or maybe Benny just got nailed for cleverly using the three, four, or five different e-mail accounts with different e-mail addresses that he uses at his house. Many people have multiple e-mail accounts and multiple e-mail addresses at their homes for various perfectly reasonable and legal purposes.

  13. It is very sad that it has taken another round of idiocy from Donald Trump for Christian males to realize this.

    You’re addressing women: Yes, WE KNOW Christianity doesn’t care about women. I’ve read the book. It isn’t very nice to women. Neither are the vast majority of male Christians.

    How any sane person with a vagina can believe in a religion made by males for males is beyond my scope of understanding.

    You know what would actually change people’s minds? Get rid of that old, foul book and replace it with some shit that makes sense, doesn’t blame all human sin on women. and is upgraded for brains that exists in the 21st century.

    I laugh at all of you Christians. Guess what happens when you die? Same old shit that happened the day before, the year before, the century before, the epoch before: NOTHING.

    In light and love, right?

    • This is a false account. This is one of the exact same quilt icons “Benny” uses. “Benny” is not who he/she claims he/she is.

      TROLL ALERT

  14. right on, pastor John. i read this to my closest female friend who come with me out of fundamentalist-evangelical misogynist background.

    she glowed with appreciation. and gave you the thumbs up.

    carry on, my friend.

    there are many women hurt deeply by fundamentalist-evangelical misogynist history.

    beginning with the Ancient Indigenous survivors whose grandmothers, mothers, sisters and wives continue, in many cases, continue to suffer under misogynist “christian” leadership or are “converts” to the christian misogynist mission.

    have been about calling out these “leaders” for many moons now, coming from their ranks as i did.

    so thankful for you, pastor John, as you are a much younger man.
    should you accomplish over your lifetime a revival in the church
    on this matter,

    there will be a multitude of blessing coming your way….

    in The Love

    for GrandMother Earth and The Generations.

    –Steve Pipkin-Savage

    • Steve, it did my heart good to read that your female friend loved John’s blog.

      John has a way of cutting through all the denial, lies, nonsense and really bad theology out there in evangelical/fundie land.

      Unfortunately, there are a sizable number of trolls that attack him every time he posts. They also attack people who find worth in John P’s posts.

      The One Psychological Characteristic That Online Trolls Tend to Share
      Science points to a certain vile tendency.

      http://www.alternet.org/media/one-psychological-characteristic-online-trolls-tend-share?akid=14707.1106365.pZ9Vet&rd=1&src=newsletter1064541&t=4

      • I beg your pardon, Stephen. I apologize for calling you by the wrong name. I hate it when people do that to me. May I please have your forgiveness?

        • Gloriamarie. Please see my two notes to Benny below. This guy really is a TROLL—-a standard, textbook TROLL. Look at what he is doing. You can tell it is him because the quilt icons are the same—even though he sticks different names in beside them. If you click on those icons, you get the same name “false.” All of these are his posts, and they are contradictory—taking one stance in one place and opposing it in others.

          I would boot this guy if he were doing this on my blog. It is one thing to have a strong position. It is quite another thing to be just plain dishonest and play rude and fickle games with other posters.

          • Oh, I 100% agree with you that Benny is a troll. I did not know that about the quilt icons. Thank you.

            I also 100% agree that someone using multiple fake identities should be booted off, but that’s John’s call.

            However, I suggest this. Whenever he posts under all his pseudonyms, let’s not engage him and just type “Troll Alert” in the comments.

            To respond to him just feeds his ego and his quite possibly diseased mind.

  15. THANK YOU JOHN:
    Finally a MAN OF PRINCIPLE AND VALUES, coming to the defense of women. You are a jewel and we are sure here in our household, that women all over the world will respect you immensely for standing up and being counted as a real man.
    We still here cannot fathom the amount of support that Trump has with women, our minds just cannot get around it. Hopefully, they will jump off the Trump wagon and get some respect for themselves, so that those men who look at them differently will know that there are no women out there that believe or would encourage Pigs, like Trump., and forgive me because I believe that (pigs, the animal) have value., TRUMP HAS NONE.
    Thank you again, for a wonderful, thoughtful and immensely important article..Blessings to you and your family from Canada on this Our Thanksgiving Weekend., we give THANKS FOR MEN LIKE YOU…

  16. Donald Trump is a carbon copy of my late stepfather. He was a narcissist and a serial philanderer. He objectified women and the only thing he valued about them was if they had model good looks and style, which he would then go after for sexual conquests, despite being married, as Trump has done. My father was also a leader in the Republican party and at his death, was on his fourth marriage to a woman close to my age. I know the man that Donald Trump is. My sisters and I, along with our mother, lived with him for years and suffered greatly through having him in our lives. I would not vote for Trump if he were the last man on earth. And I am so grateful to God for men like John, my husband, and my son, who are men who try to live and love like Jesus, treating women, and every person, as beloved children of God.

  17. How would you know you’re a man it’s more credible when john your trying to create separation and Chaos between men and women and Christianity get a life you

  18. Reading this page is just amazing. You have to take the bible as it reads. You cannot take bits and pieces you like to justify a cause and leave other pieces out. In the end, GOD will judge each and everyone of us. He is the only judge and those who twist his words or ignore the chapters and verses they do not like will be judged like the rest of us. Our country has become immoral and corrupt and our time is coming. Do get me wrong, I am not righteous, I have my own crosses to bear, and things to try and make right with God.

  19. John 2, do you really believe a man who has filed at least 4 bankruptcies and lost 960 million dollars is going to handle our country’s finances any better?

  20. All you do is make your living by finding the hot topics of the day and prostituting yourself to them for the thrill of getting comments and popularity. Another self-righteous rant from the man who thinks he the voice of Jesus Christ. You do the exact same thing of which you accuse your opponents. It’s called self-righteous hypocrisy, and Jesus spoke out against it severely. You don’t love people. You hate them. You live because you play off of people’s hatred, which is categorically SICK.

  21. As a Christian who leans right, this doesn’t characterize me or most of the Christian men I know. You’re painting with such a broad brush for your own political gain it’s almost laughable. Only those who choose to ignore reality can read this article and give assent with a straight face.

    There is so much hypocrisy on the Left and in Hollywood and media it’s not even funny. What’s tragic is that some Christians are buying into the narrative and attacking other Christians simply because they hold differing political views. Instead of open and honest discussion, if you disagree with someone then you attack their character/motives and paint them as the most evil villains who’ve ever lived. Sure it feels good to ride your uber-moral high-horse, but you’re left being nothing more than a tool of those who seek to employ you for their own gain.

    Think for yourselves. Stop drinking the cool-aid.

    Btw, this is not a statement supporting Trump. It’s an observation of the thought-climate of much of the Christian Left.

  22. Only thing I would change is after,
    “We won’t stand for these things, because you, our daughters, wives, sisters, mothers; our friends, bosses, coworkers, and our pastors, reflect the character of God to us every day and we are grateful.”,
    I would add, “but most importantly because you are human beings made in the image of God. ”

    Sometimes it gets old hearing we are valued because of our relation to men, and not simply because we are human.

  23. Thank you, John. And I am not going to even BEGIN to read the comments because I immediately saw someone defending Donald Trump and as I scrolled to reach the place where I could leave this comment, saw the name of a well-known troll of your posts and it’s not worth getting my blood pressure up.

    I thank you and pray for you. With attitudes like those of the American Christian Right (WHAT a misnomer!) there is small wonder that Christianity and ‘Christians’ are so despised by anyone with half a brain who believes that they are truly representative of God and Christianity. As Gandhi famously said, (I paraphrase) he had the greatest respect for Jesus. It was His followers he had a problem with.

  24. I know from personal experience that so-called Christian men don’t value women. My now-ex husband, a deacon in our church, used to explain maltreatment of me and our children as “God’s instrument of correction” in our lives. The so-called Christian counselor I went to said my marriage was falling apart because I was sexually repressed, and volunteered himself to “help.” The next counselor, after a brief interview, said only that I “obey” my husband. No further comment. The emotional and physical abuse of our children and me began escalating. In those days there were no domestic violence laws and no safe places of refuge for us. When I learned of my husband’s infidelities, I divorced him. Since I was the initiating party I was, in the eyes of the church, the guilty party. The church effectively excommunicated me. You could say that, when I divorced my husband, I also “divorced” God. But God is faithful, gradually drawing me into the healing, life-giving relationship the church could not have given me. I am becoming the person God knew I was all along. This election cycle has poked up a few ashes of heartache and resentment inside me. But God hasn’t ever let me down, and I see no reason for Him to begin now. He can deal with those so-called Christian men in His own way and time….I trust Him for the outcome.

  25. “This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth and says, ‘I’ve done nothing wrong.’
    Proverbs 30:20
    And so it is to this day.

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