White American Christians, You Let the Wolves in

The wolves have breached the door.

In the New Testament, Jesus speaks of humanity as sheep; innocent, vulnerable to the violence of encroaching predators, and in need of protection. Speaking of himself as the sacrificial, caring Good Shepherd, he warns against those who would seek to destroy the sheep.

Later the biographer Matthew says that when Jesus looked the crowd before him, he was moved with compassion, because he saw that they were “harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd,” and he pleads for advocates.

Elsewhere, Jesus cautions against the wolves who would come disguised in goodness to gain proximity to the sheep, only to devour them. “Be careful of those who appear to be one of you,” he in essence warns, “they are the real threat.” He tells his hearers that the ones most claiming righteousness will indeed be the height of wickedness. 

And the saddest part about Jesus’ warnings is that they have now come to pass; the predators are here and they didn’t come from somewhere outside.
They weren’t the Muslims or the gays or the Atheists, as we’ve been told by the Church they would be.
They didn’t come from Hollywood or North Korea or some ISIS offshoot as FoxNews or Breitbart forecast.
These wolves weren’t watching from a distance and they didn’t have to travel far to infiltrate the flock.
This slaughter has been an inside job.
It’s happened at campaign rallies and in voting booths and on partisan news networks.
It’s come through the evangelists and the pastors and the politicians and from proclaimed Christians, all out of blood while wearing Jesus like a sheepskin.

For all their sanctimonious preaching about morality and family values, and for all their endless warnings to the “sinners” around them, white Christians elected the worst human being to ever reside in the White House; a man completely devoid of goodness and decency—and dared to call him Christian. They rubber stamped every vulgar word, every hateful diatribe, every open falsehood, every piece of predatory legislation and sold it as being of God. And worst of all, in these days they’ve doubled down on defending every reprehensible bit of it and joined in the feeding frenzy. 

For all their talk about following the Good Shepherd, white Evangelicals let the wolves in and they’re tearing the sheep to pieces. The predators have the run of the pen and we’re seeing the carnage happen in real-time, in party-line Congressional votes, in unconstitutional Executive Orders, in ill-conceived ICE raids, and in bizarre, ranting press conferences. It’s a brutal and wasteful destruction of many of the most at risk. 

And the sad part about it all is that Jesus ends up with the blood on his hands that really belongs to them. His name is dragged through the filth by a religious-political movement systematically running through the powerless and the vulnerable—all in the name of a Jesus who they can’t be bothered with, in the name of a faith that they haven’t the slightest interest in honoring. Like an abuser who claims affection for another while inflicting injury, these professed Christians are preaching a God of love to people while simultaneously going for their throats—and wondering why they’re running away.

The disconnect is profound, the cognitive dissonance alarming, the absurdity spectacular—that professed Christians are the very violent, vicious, bloodthirsty predators Jesus spent his days here telling people to look out for. He was warning humanity against his own. He was prophesying against the American Conservative Church in America in 2017.

For many people, Evangelical Christianity here hasn’t been about Jesus in a few decades. It long ago sold its soul to the Republican Party for a few pieces of silver and some Supreme Court seats. But over the past year and particularly in recent weeks, politicians on the Right have almost literally said, “To Hell with Jesus. We have a blank check now. We’re God now.” And in the short-term it probably feels like they’re winning, as they butcher lamb after lamb, gorging themselves on every morsel of power they can grab. We all see the overreach; the feeding frenzy that honors no laws, respects no life, and affirms nothing resembling Jesus. They think this is victory.

But there is a price for this terror and it is the future of the very faith they profess and profit from. They are the loudest and most convincing deterrent against their religion to a watching world who know wolves when they see them. They are making Jesus synonymous with the massacre we’re witnessing and making Christianity irrelevant in the process.

Not long from now, these same supposed men and women of God will lament why the Church has died. The exodus from organized religion will continue until the only ones left are those now exploiting the people. They will condemn the immoral culture who have rejected God, failing to realize that they have been the ones who’ve made Jesus so objectionable. The Church will shrivel until it become a tiny sanctified gated community of self-righteous hypocrites. And eventually they will do what starving animals do when prey is scarce: they will turn on each other until they are extinct.

And so in these days, people are moving outside of the Church to do the work of Jesus. The faithful and the faithless and those most vilified by the Christians doing this damage, are together becoming the true shepherds of the sheep. They are moving with compassion for the vulnerable, they are “laying down their lives” to defend those most in danger, they are doing the difficult work of keeping the wolves away.  

And make no mistake friend, we will not let the wolves win the day.

Compassion will win the day.

Goodness will.

Mercy will.

Love will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

319 thoughts on “White American Christians, You Let the Wolves in

  1. John, I completely agree with most of your posts that what is going on in Washington is horrific. And the evengelical support ofnit even more so. But I really do wish you would stop painting all “white evangelical Christians” with such a broad brush. Some of us have not forgotten that we are evangelizing for Christ, not for political parties or positions. Some of us are appalled at the poison spewing from the mouths if so-called evangelical leaders. And not one of us has committed a sin by being born to Caucasian parents.

    • Vicki, while I am glad to read that some white evangelicals remember Jesus, perhaps John P’s experience is like mine, that white evangelicals will only help the white evangelicals of their own churches and refuse to help anyone else unless they pass a theological litmus test.

      Twice in my life I have reached out to evangelical Christians. Once when I was in deep agony in my lower back and had been told I would never walk again. Then again for the past two years since I had a heart attack and was very ill. In fact, long term readers of this blog might remember that I reached out again this autumn to about 75 churches, most of them evangelical looking for help and it was refused.

      I am a very poor person and used to get most of my groceries at the food bank but with the increased demand, I am no longer allowed to go their weekly but only every other month. At Christmas, members of this blog generously sent me food from my grocery wishlist on Amazon. All that has been eaten up and now I am scrambling again for food. I go to other foodbanks and they want to load me up with carbs, which I cannot eat and manage my diabetes.

      So from my personal experience, I think John is probably quite right about the majority of white evangelical Christians.

    • Exactly!! I agree with Vicki.
      I didn’t vote for Trump because he was a “Christian” and I didn’t vote for him because he was supposed to be our “pastor”. He is trying to bring back jobs for this country & I suppose people who don’t need jobs or money for some reason wouldn’t understand that.

      • Well, Wendy, I would understand it better if Trump weren’t such a liar and a hypocrite. If he truly wanted jobs in ***this*** country, he would close his factories etc in the twelve **foreign** countries and bring all those jobs home.

        I would understand it better if he paid the people who built his casinos and the Trump tower. I would understand it better if when that new hotel of his in DC was outfitted, that the rooms etc had been decorated with items made in the USA.

        • Thank you Gloriamarie. I could not have said it better myself. His products, his daughter’s products are all manufactured overseas. Why not start with what is close, shut those down and bring those jobs back here! Oh wait, that would not work because they would not be able to make the insane profits they make off the low labor costs in China and other countries. Hypocrisy at its finest.

          • It truly is one of the most blatant examples of hypocrisy and outright lying I have ever seen.

            It is so very blatant. How is it that people don’t see it? Why is it that people close their eyes to it?

            I think it is because in Trump they see themselves. They just don’t like to admit it, but after puzzling for this for a good long while, the only conclusion that can be reached, in my opinion, if anyone still supports him after these disatrous three weeks in office it can only be because they are as authortarian, bigoted, fascist, gynophobic, homophobic, isolationist, misogynistic, racist, rapist, sexual assaulters and molesters, transgenderphobic, white supremacist, and xenophobic as he is.

            And there are those white evangelicals and white Christians who are not evangelicals who believe the Gospel supports this kind of attitude.

            Jesus tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves. This is a bald, blanket, generalized statement that comes without footnotes, a list of exceptions, or appendices.

            If one believes there are footnotes, a list of exceptions, or appendices, then I simply am unable to understand how that person can claim to be a Christian.

            I would like to invite all white evangelicals and anyone else who object to what is going in DC and the USA to join my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post petitions, phone calls, actions, and information so we can all be better-informed citizens.

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

            • Actually Jesus didn’t say to love our neighbours as ourselves. That was Old Testament thinking. He took it up a whole level and said we should love our neighbours as HE loved us. Which means sacrificing our position, our comfort, our religious status quo, in fact our very lives, for others. What Jesus really said and did seems to have been completely missed in the evangelical movement in recent years and it’s happening over here in Australia too with the rise of populist politicians. So terribly sad and I fear for the future!

              • Neroli, I am sorry to have to contradict you but you are wrong. Mark 12:31 “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

                He also said in John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

                So as usual with things in the Bible, it is not an either/or, it is a both/and.

                In any event, there are plenty of people out there calling themselves Christians who do not love their neighbors as themselves, they also do not love their neighbors as Jesus loves us.

          • I would add………..How about all the little contractors in this country he stiffed. If you give someone a job and then don’t pay them that is not helping anyone but the wealthy.

      • no, wendy, he is not trying to bring back jobs for this country. If he was every single product that carries the Trump name would be made in the United States.

        He would not import all his products from elsewhere.
        He would not import the materials to build his buildings from elsewhere.
        He would not stock those buildings with products made elsewhere.
        He would not import foreign workers to work those properties from elsewhere.

        The only people Trump and the GOP are going to help is the top few like Trump. They don’t give a **** about the rest of us.

        Trump is a liar, a thief and a conman. He doesn’t give a royal **** about the United States. The history of his 70 plus years of his life prove that.

        • You’re entitled to your opinion. Others are entitled to disagree with you. You’re not entitled to condemn those who don’t accept your opinion as dogma.

          • Well, Joe, since you conservatives have a record of condemning those who don’t accept your opinion as dogma..let me know when you conservatives knock it off.

            Then I’ll return the favor.

            Until then…no.

            • The irony and hypocrisy in this comment is stunning. You’ve admitted that you’re unwilling to hold yourself to the standard you demand from others.

          • Most of Mr Kessler’s reply is proven fact. The only thing that is opinion is what he thinks 45 and the GOP care about. What opinion do you hold as a result of those facts?

        • and what I said, at least in so far as this is concerned: He would not import all his products from elsewhere.
          He would not import the materials to build his buildings from elsewhere.
          He would not stock those buildings with products made elsewhere.
          He would not import foreign workers to work those properties from elsewhere.

          Is true.

          He imports foreign workers all the time. He imports the materials to build his buildings from other countries. He stocks those properties with his products which are made overseas. His daughters line of clothes is made in Chinese sweatshops.

          Now you may have the opinion that doesn’t make him a hypocritical fraud and a conman, Joe, but your opinion does not match up with reality.

      • I wonder if you said this when Bill Clinton did his deeds in the White House and was impeached to the glee of the Evangelical Church and Republicans who cried “Morality is more important than economics” and screamed “we can’t let the immoral behavior go unpunished” — all the while the economy – and jobs – boomed under Clinton so I assume you said the same about Clinton – that his immorality could be overlooked since he was helping people get jobs…right??

        • More importantly to me, Bill Clinton appears, as far as any of us can tell, to have experienced true repentance and turned his life around where as Trump boasts that he has nothing to ask forgivness fo despite his multiple adulteries, failure to pay his bills, failure to pay his campaign staff, failure to adequately divest himself of his business interests so he is guilty of emolument.

          Bill Clinton’s sins are unforgivable in the eyes of the Right even though he has apparently repented while the man who has never repented for any of his sins has his excused.

          Hypocrisy is the word that comes to mind.

                  • The hell you did, this quote from October 2016,

                    “Hillary Clinton is thoroughly corrupt…. Trump is making a huge sacrifice to run. He doesn’t need this headache but is doing it for the good of our country.”

                    Do you need more examples o how you called Hillary evil and Trump good?

                    • Colin Powell said…’HRC is greedy & non-transformational. Every thing she touches gets screwd up w hubris.’

                    • You changed things. Was that a misunderstanding or just your trollish work? I didn’t say Trump’s sins are good.

              • So, Joe, what has Trump done to earn forgiveness for his serial philandering, his bragging about being a sexual predator, his routine acts of being a conman, his lies, his fear and hate mongering…

                • I don’t know. I don’t know about the state of Donald Trump’s soul. I believe he is sincere in his desires to do good for our country and I believe a very wealthy 70 year old man didn’t need the aggravations and work of this job. I believe he’s made a heroic personal sacrifice to serve our country.

                  He needs to repent of his sins as we all do. I don’t need to know about that, however. That’s something he has to handle privately.

                  • TO quote: I believe he is sincere in his desires to do good for our country

                    Well I already debunked that claim of yours. I can come up with further examples.

                    To quote: believe a very wealthy 70 year old man didn’t need the aggravations and work of this job. I believe he’s made a heroic personal sacrifice to serve our country.

                    no, he did need the job. Why? Because he just couldn’t stand that Obama was President. Obama was an affront to Trump’s sociopathic narcissism.

                    And he has made no sacrifice whatsoever, Joe. He is using the White House to pilfer the country and make his family rich.

                  • He’s not making a heroic personal sacrifice. He is building up the “Trump” brand. He is personally profitting and his family is personally profitting.

          • Repentance?

            …not according to Gen Colin Powell, who said (and confirmed that they were accurate) in his emails:
            –‘Bill is still _____ bimbos’

          • Can you show one piece of evidence of Bill Clinton’s repentance? “As far as any of us can tell,” he has lied (to congress) and denied and never once admitted his predatory sexual behavior. Not once.

            • The entire campaign we did not heard any news of any infidelity and we have not for years. Given the impeachment, we can be certain there were those keeping an eye on him eager to report “Bill’s at it again.”

              As they have been silent, there is no reason to think he is cheating on Hilary. It would have come out during the campaign.

              Whereas we have DJT who boasts of his infidelities to Melania.

              • So…no, there is not one piece of evidence for Bill Clinton’s repentance. He has never admitted to infidelity, and never apologized to the women he preyed upon from his position of power.

      • By voting for him for any reason, you supported all that he stands for. Besides, he is not bringing back jobs. He is steadily destroying jobs, unless you want to go work in the fields picking vegetables and fruits, you know all those jobs that the now-deported used to do that are open for Americans. Yes, you too can make 45 cents per bushel picking vegetables all day from sun up to sun down. No benefits. Don’t ask. Plenty of openings. No travel pay.

        • One should talk to the farmers of Alabama, when they scared the itinerant workers away the crops died in the fields because all those people screaming about the immigrants taking their jobs didn’t want them.

          • What I have never understood is how come all the blame is foisted upon the shoulders of the undocumented workers? How come we never hear about sanctions against those who employ them?

            My state provides, last I read, fifty percent of the produce eaten in the USA. Who do you think picks it? Undocumented, migrant workers.

            A great many people enjoy the wines made in CA. If machines don’t pick the grapes and they are hand-picked, who do you think does the picking? Undocumented igrant workers.

            Undocumented migrant workers staff dairy farms, chicken ranches, beef ranches etc etc etc.

            I don’t see high school kids on summer break or college kids rushing to take these jobs. I don’t see unemployed citizens seeking these jobs.

            Who on the face of God’s green earth is going to do them if the undocumented workers are rousted from this country?

    • Not answering for Mr. Pavlovitz here, Vicki, but the problem with your argument is that you and yours have sat largely silent. You did not rise up and oppose the ones acting in your name that Mr. Pavlovitz is talking about. You did not oppose them at all costs. You did not deal with them. You and yours sat largely silent while they brought you and yours political power in the form of the GOP, money and “prestige.”

      You and yours let the lunatics take over the proverbial asylum while you and yours sat on the sidelines and let them.

    • Thank you, Vicki, only I agree with less than you. I just don’t see this, even living in Orange County. I’m surrounded by people working in ministries, ministries organized through big and little churches. For homeless, refugees, incest abuse, depression, sex trafficing, pro-life, marriage support etc. There are some that may fit the profile here in OC, who surprisingly see Trump as moral, but most know we are dealing with a flawed character at best. Plenty of us still see Jesus as the One we can’t live without. I would not call these folks blood-thirsty wolves. Who are these Christians he is describing?

      • You mean besides the ones who want more war, more guns, more death penalty, less health care, more poor and sick, let refugees die, etc?

      • Kim. thanks for commenting. I relate to your experience too. I see Christians working together, knowing that Trump (who they voted for) is human & flawed. Christians know that Jesus is King, and the gratitude pours over into the communities where we live. Jesus is pleased.

      • Kim, I have to ask, based on my own personal experience of being denied assistance I desperately needed on three occasions because I was not part of the clique.

        Are ” people working in ministries, ministries organized through big and little churches. For homeless, refugees, incest abuse, depression, sex trafficking, anti-choice, marriage support etc” doing this good and excellent work for anyone who needs it or merely for those who answer the questions on the theological checklist correctly?

        I ask because I have been told flat out “we will only help you if you are a member of our church” when anyone bothered to give me the courtesy of an answer.

        Last fall or maybe it was late summer, I was in desperate need of homemaker services and even Leslie M, whose credentials as a fundamentalist can never be in doubt, was unable to find anyone to help me.

        So while I am glad there are American white evangelicals doing good works, as St, Benedict calls them in chapter four of his Rule, in my own personal experience and in the experience of many people I know or whose experience I read about, one has to be a member of the club otherwise one is ignored.

    • I invite, therefore, more of you to speak up, more loudly, that you do not support this administration. Be a part of the movement of goodness. Be a loud voice in resisting hatred.

    • I have been reluctant to describe myself as Christian for 25 years because of what I now call the alt-right fundamentalist Christians who almost destroyed for me the truth of the Christ being. I love John’s writing because it inspires me to stand up and act on behalf of my fellow human beings. Being born white is not a sin. And it is a Sin to enjoy the unearned privilege that comes with being born white and fail to act out of that privilege in support of others who are being condemned by the inherited facts of their birth. Most of the Germans in the 1920s and 30s were ‘decent church going’ Christians. They had real and legitimate problems and grievances. And none of that undoes the slaughter of 6 million Jews and millions of other victims of an nationalist insane leader and his obsessive ‘anti everything except their leader’ followers. Some of those Germans just got lost in the demands of their own lives; some thought he didn’t mean what he said, and some thought they could ‘use’ him to their own ends. And they were all wrong. I am sorry. The Wolves have been let in and it is time for those who stand with the Christ to stand against the wolves. Without compromise.

      • The Jews were scapegoats for their fears just as Muslims are the scapegoats for the fears of Too Many American, white, evangelical, and fundamental Christians.

        One issue, though, please don’t use the term “alt-right” and use the real term, “white supremacist.” Please don’t dignify white supremacy with a term that conveys that white supremacy is an acceptable, alternative POV.

    • When the demographic is so dominantly pro-Trump, the brush needs to to be broad, strong, and with unadulterated color. If you don’t want to be painted with that brush, then take a clear stand and join with the others that do. When 81% of an identifiable demographic stand behind Trump, it is completely just to paint that demographic with a single, broad brush.

      This is what it looks like when someone in that demographic stand up and follows Christ:

      http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-evangelical-refugee-20170215-story.html

    • No…. you commit a sin when you will not alow the poor and impoverished from foreign lands to escape and find refuge because they are not christians.

  2. I was concerned that John was a bit hasty finding fault with the new President and overly harsh on the Christians who supported him. I agree with him now about the former. But Christians must be coming to their senses as they begin to see what they have allowed to happen.

    • I’m happy Trump is president. Many Christians are. There are black Christians who voted for him too, but for some reason they aren’t supposed to be criticized by your guys. Just the white ones.

      Here are some words from a black Christian Trump supporter:

      Prominent conservative activist Alveda King, the niece of civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr., revealed Monday that she cast a vote for President-elect Donald Trump.

      Ms. King, a former Georgia state representative who now serves as director for Civil Rights for the Unborn and Gospel of Life Ministries, told American Thinker that she’s been praying for Mr. Trump and his adversaries to unite and work together.

      “I pray that all polar opposites learn to Agape Love, live and work together as brothers and sisters — or perish as fools,” she said.

      “While I voted for Mr. Trump, my confidence remains in God, for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Prayers for President-elect Trump, Congressman Lewis, and everyone including leaders.”

      Ms. King, 65, made similar comments following Mr. Trump’s Election Day victory, saying she hoped the new president would bring racial healing to the country.

      “I’m born into a family of preachers,” she told Fox Business Nov. 15. “So I want Mr. Trump to remember that many people who voted for him took a long time praying for him. And if he can take some of that divine guidance, that’s going to help him out. We do need unity, and from my perspective as a minister myself, God has not forgotten America.

        • I love my friend’s wife. It would make me happy to be with her. It would not make my friend or my wife however. So therefore I have to reject my affection for my friend’s wife.

          Sometimes “love” has to be denied.

          And I can tell you from my experience and the experience of others that being with the person you love will not make you happy. It’s impossible because only God can fill that void, and no person or thing can compare with that.

            • I’m not coveting either. I was just trying to make a point. You can do whatever you want to do. I’m not trying to stop you. But I won’t condone it or say it’s not a serious sin.

                    • That’s not what I mean. Everyone has a cross or crosses to bear. Jesus said we must deny ourselves pick up our cross and follow him. You might have the cross of same-sex attraction. If you wish to follow Christ you will deny yourself indulgence in the sin it could lead to and will bear that cross to the end.

                    • Joe, what Jesus meant about picking up your cross has more to do with sacrificing for others your time, money and compassion not self chastisement or willingly denying yourself love and companionship.
                      It is through being loved that we can love and Jesus gives as a gift people to us– not as a temptation.

                      There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. This is the kind of sacrifice Jesus was speaking about. Torture on the cross itself is not what God planned for us– he offers us abundance not flagellation.

  3. John,
    This one. I think of all the writings you have posted lately, it’s this one that resonates with a loudness I can’t shut out. This is my entire life experience within the SBC. A move allowed God to show me what the whole “Follow Jesus” was meant to be, and for that I can never say enough prayers of gratitude.

    Souls have been sold…and soon the bill will come due. Many of those, my friends. Likely your friends as well. The damage done to the mission of Christ in America..and around the world….for power and a SCOTUS seat….one can’t help but see Christ entering the temple tossing the tables…..

    Great writing. Timely. Truthful….even if it hurts.

    • Jim, in answer to your question about Romans …. I believe that generally, we are to “be subject unto the higher powers”. But when and if they fail to follow the teachings of Jesus, we must stand up for the truth. God gave us brains to discern and the best way, in my opinion, is see where works come from love, like Jesus preached. And just because some one of some government says they are Christian, but do destructive works that go against everything Jesus taught, does not mean we are to blindly follow them. …. At least, that is how I see it.

    • Paul /(Jesus) said those words when Roman Empire was at its most evil reign. (Nero). God is saying that he allows people free will, and they get the leaders they deserve. God is saying it’s good to follow the Laws of the Land, so you can go about the work I’ve given you to do. It works both ways.

      For all our citizens that are frantic & unnerved, this is a wonderful opportunity to turn to God & God’s family, for comfort, fellowship & love. Like Rahm Emannuel says, ‘Never let a serious crisis go to waste.’

      • Agreed, leslie , Romans 13:1 is a wise saying. IF we are to have peace be we should be subject to rulers but when rulers are evil or LIARS there is no peace, so might as well protest and further the cause of change !

        • Regardless… Christians are to plant seeds, fertilize, water, & harvest, God’s fruit.

          Be open to the possibility that the fruit we’re demanding is of our own making.

          Let’s try something different than what WE think is best.

          • what does that even mean?

            how can we go against what is best?

            sometimes christians think that because the gospel seems foolish to some everything should be foolish !!!

  4. John, I fully appreciate your horror at what is happeneninf i. Washington. I do wish you would stop stereotyping white evangelicals,though. Some of us are just as appalled al you are. Especially at the poison spewed so-called evengelical leaders. Some of us have not forgotten who we are supposed to be evangelizing for. And none of us have committed a sin by being born Caucasian.

    • @GloriaMarie—where are you? Maybe I can help some…our stories are identical…it’s tragic, I left the church some 3 years ago bc of the horrible hypocrisy and tyranny towards those not abiding in the so called church requirements to getting anyone to simply love you and to help you. All I wanted was for someone to help me bathe, get groceries, help me put together some food so I wouldn’t have to cook. This was when I got cancer. I reached out to my church, my family, and my fiancé…all whit conservative evangelicals…all left me abandoned…this is when my eyes were truly opened. Everyone is suspect now. The pain and battle wounds run deep. The church cannot recognize the pain and isolation they are inflicting on the ones who leave. We are condemned and charged with not being on of them! Please! And Trump? And Franklin? I’m over all of their foolishness! To my shock and horror, because I did not agree with my family’s ideology…I have been castaway! They know I’m alone, poor and living with cancer….all I can say is I’m stunned to say the least!

      • Just a fair warning. Take it for whatever its worth.

        I responded to her pleas for assistance and sent her $70 worth of items on her list. She knew it was from me. The next day on the board she called me a “troll.” I didn’t expect anything by giving but I did think that she might see me as a “person” after that and not mistreat me, but that wasn’t the case.

        I truly hope she’s being honest and legitimate, but because of my experience, I have some doubts, and for that reason would not assist again.

        • For the record (1) I am an honest person and (2) I had no idea that stuff was from you. How could I? I have nio idea what your real name is and all it said was “your favorite troll” and out of so many that are here posting, how am I supposed to know which one considers her/himself to be my favorite? (3) I am not the only one who thinks you are a troll, so don’t blame me for that when several people have also expressed this opinion.

          Somehow, it seems like your ego to claim credit for this act of charity. We are supposed to do our good works in secret, after all.

          The need is legitimate. Believe it or not, as you prefer.

          • I am inclined to take your word for it which is why I sent it in the first place. You knew it was from me because you thanked me in a post the day you received it. You don’t remember that? I sent kitty litter, some kind of canned fish, and a special kind of mayonnaise. I don’t begrudge helping someone or doing a kindness even if they don’t like me personally, yet I felt it was very strange that you would attack me the next day, hence why I questioned your legitimacy.

            I agree, that giving should be “in secret.” It is in a way because nobody here knows who I am. Still I would have preferred that it be that way entirely and I didn’t like making this post. I had some doubts because you didn’t relate to me as a human being but were mean and nasty to me the very next day. I don’t understand that at all. I thought that my gesture would have broken down a wall a little bit and you would have had some regard for the feelings of the other person behind the screen.

            Still…I think now it would be better that I had not made the above post and I regret doing it. I take it back because I think you should be given the benefit of the doubt and don’t want to discourage others from giving to you if their hearts are so moved.

            • Thank you for writing this.

              What I remember about my thank you notes to the blog were that they were very general. I don’t recall that I thanked anyone individually because I don’t recall that I knew. Still, my life had been in upheaval for the past few months.

            • That’s right Joe because giving to someone in need and then turning around and throwing it back in their face — as if you have some power over them– to humiliate and abuse them– reveals you are treacherous. A ravenous wolf who can give and take away from someone weaker than yourself.

              Sorry for the harsh language but I hate self flattering aggrandizers who stand on a pedestal and dictate their way of thinking as truth…

              ..good on you for apologizing

              — but are you truly a repented person or just feeling the heat of guilt?

                    • The trick is this: Joe knew he gave a gift but he also feels slighted because you called him a troll afterwards– so he knows if he says something about the good he did for you and the evil you did in return he is revealing his own lack of graciousnessness BUT to Joe it is okay because he gets to reveal your bad behaviour and then apologize for his slip up — you see he comes up smelling like roses and the icing on the cake IS he gets to post what you did to him for all the world to see.

                      He is playing the abuser’s game of “look at the good I did” to make himself look good and shrugs of his indiscretion with an apology which also makes him– look like a good christian. It turns out to be a win win for Joe.

                      Christians are suckers for apologies– we are doormats right?

                      Based on Joe’s past history I don’t buy his apology — we are victims of brutes like Joe– just wait until his next few comments. I won’t trust him until he proves he is to be trusted– we owe Joe Catholic the bully nothing– after all his abuse.

                      Let’s wait and see if he is truly repentant or just playing tricks on us.

                    • I see what you mean anonymous, we are sheep being led to slaughter,

                      Gloriamarie is the innocent one not Joe. I don’t care how many good works he does.

                      I have been watching him for a long time and I will never forget the post he made with the laughing man mocking Hillary supporters on a pots about grief.

                      Joe is mocking us.

                      we can’t trust him

                    • Thank you Gloriamarie. I will not mention this again. I did have some real doubts, but I now sufficiently doubt my doubts. I wish your life could be better. I know there might be some who might question why you go to the expense of having a cat, but having a companion is important. I love animals, especially cats and dogs and know how important they can be (and how heartbreaking it is to lose them).

                      For whatever it’s worth I do believe in the concept of not “tooting one’s own horn.” That wasn’t my intention, but I can understand that it might have appeared that way.

                      I don’t think you and I will ever see eye-to-eye regarding politics or religion, and especially Donald Trump, but I am hoping we could at least be someone cordial with each other. I don’t have bad intentions.

                      I hope and pray that your needs are met.

                    • Ouch! Joe Catholic picking on a poor disabled woman?Whaaat!! Yikes!

                      Well, nice try at an explanation…oh, but, you leave me wanting more. 🙁

                      What is your real motive?

                      …Mr. Catholic.

                      …besides best intentions?

                      Hmmmm, okay?!

                      Come on Mr. Joe, Trump is not a worthy Prez, we don’t even have to wait for the “time will tell” scenario. It’s here already. Argh!!

                      Bring on Pence and stability!!!

                      Gosh… longing for some respectability.

                      I need a drink now !!

              • I’m being as gracious as I can be. It behooves Gloriamarie to do some self examination and at least question herself whether she has said anything wrong towards me. I think she has been lacking in graciousness but I’ll leave it at that.

          • I regret that I am changing my mind and taking everything back.

            Ms Gloriamarie continues to lie about me, which is very dishonest, so if she lies about me, what else does she lie about?

            I don’t trust you Gloriamarie. I would have helped more, but that’s it for me. I don’t know if I should believe someone’s story if they don’t mind telling vicious lies about me and continue to insult me.

        • Anonymous, whichever one of the various Anonymouses (Anonymousi??) you are, you wrote “Based on Joe’s past history I don’t buy his apology — we are victims of brutes like Joe– just wait until his next few comments. I won’t trust him until he proves he is to be trusted– we owe Joe Catholic the bully nothing– after all his abuse.”

          Well, here’sthe thing. While I agree with you, the fact is he apologized and since he so often refuse to admit he is in the worng when he is, I personally, as the one to whom his words were directed, am going to take his apology as sincerely meant.

          Of course, he is still a troll, and I am sorry that the use of that word upsets him but maybe he could examine hsi own behavior and reflect why so many of us call him that.

          Thing is, he can be a troll and still be compassionate, generous, and kind. No one, not even Trump is, I hope, 100% evil.

            • Oh, I don’t believe much of what he says, except that he represents his own opinion. But he embraces lies too easily for me to believe him. But I will accept an apology when offered. Few men offer them.

          • (Sigh) NO I am not a “troll.”

            A troll does not post in good faith. A troll will ignore questions. A troll will make a disruptive post and not respond to the responses.

            I will have a conversation with anyone. I will answer questions addressed to me in good faith. Those who have taken shots at me with no intention of having a discussion would be an example of real trolls, at least for those particular posts.

            Because I strongly disagree with the blog host and criticize him, does not mean I’m a “troll.” Not unless he has made some kind of rule that dissenters are not allowed. If that were the case then I would be crashing his party, and would understand the “troll” label. But so far I have not seen any such restrictions or any moderation whatsoever. It’s a free-for-all here and there has been some very bad unchecked behavior that was not by me.

            • Actually, Joe, you did exactly this with me ” A troll will ignore questions. A troll will make a disruptive post and not respond to the responses.”

              You also ignored any evidence to the contrary, you refused my explanation of how The Episcopal Church works, but above from the very first you posted in hostile, disrespectful, invalidating, and rude terms.

              Every impression I have of you is that you cling to lies, have allowed yourself to be manipulated. Additionally you seem to display a pathological, perverse, and unseemly obsession with what women do with their very own bodies. And you talk to people in hate-filled terms.

              I call you a troll because you act and talk like one. I even provided you with evidence from people who have made a study of internet trolls.

              Just saying you enjoy riling people up is indicative of troll-like behvior. If you don’t want to be thought of and treated as a troll, the ball is in your court. Cease to act like one. Cease to use so many pseudonyms, use a real name.

        • Hi Gloriamarie, I am still battling…one more go round in May…it made me sick at Christmas so I had to stop….thank you for that hug {{gloriamarie}}….if I lived nearby I would bless you in some way❤

          • In my daily prayers now, Jojo.

            As for blessing me, that’s why I have the grocery list up on Amazon. If you can’t afford that, your prayers are also a blessing.

  5. This is so sad but SO true. I know some will be offended but the truth hurts at times. Thank you for standing up and speaking the truth. May the love of Jesus Christ prevail…

    • Lies hurt too. Attacking Christians because of skin color is not “truth.”

      Attacking Christians because of their good-faith political positions is not “truth.”

      Divisiveness and demagoguery hurts, but it’s not “truth.”

      • if a white person talks about being white and having white privilege and what their white group has done– sit up and take notice — because some truth is coming down on us in big soul searching way–

  6. Very Sad , But True
    In an effort to Be Diverse we are eliminating , discriminating, leaving out and outright saying to the freedoms of Christians .
    We have let the wolves in the front door, said no to anything which say no to lust, pleasure, and outright abomination to God. We as a Nation will pay the Price for these acts of Anti Christian Values .
    The Media is outright trying to lie, decieve, leave out facts, not report all the truth.
    YOU as a true believer better be ware persecution for Belief, Trust, Saying No to Ungodly Lust will have to pay
    Just a s the bible say s, in the last days before Gods Judgement ( Thats Right God Judges Those Who Hate Him. ) Men, Women will be lovers of self, pleasure, selfish ambition, Godless Ventures of pleasures to find themselves with out God.
    There will be no escape from Judgement of Gods Wrath on those who hate god and love themselves.

    • …I don’t count our country and The Church (God’s Children), as one and the same –as John P does.

      [ I don’t know any White Evangelical Christians that are violent, vicious, bloodthirsty predators. Is N. Carolina that bad? All the WEC’s I know, are quietly busy about God’s business.]

      I think it would be good for John P to separate Church & State. Let’s talk about The Church, and false teachers in the Church (not in Govt) that Jesus warned us about. Or let’s talk about our elective representatives … but mostly, just Pray for them.

  7. I’m a Canadian who travelled to Oregon in January 2016. I was driving from Eugene to Portland during rush hour. Over the years I’ve travelled to the US several times for business but I had never before had the chance to drive myself for that length of time, and my experience that evening in Oregon shocked me. At the start of the drive I turned on the radio in the car and listened. For the next 2 hours I heard a string of angry men on different radio stations, spout fear and hate. I thought a few times about turning it off but I became fascinated by the very focused radio content. I started playing a game with myself to see if I could tell in the first few seconds of listening to the different radio stations, if the speaker (they were all men) were expressing extreme right political views or extreme Christian opinions. The tone was always the same – aggressive, hostile, loud, and in every case designed to stir up feelings of fear and anger. It was the evening of Pres. Obama’s last State of the Union address to the nation. The political speakers referred to it as the ‘shame of the union’ address and I won’t repeat the things they said about their President. In between the rants, the ads tended to be about home alarm systems, guns, or deadly illnesses. I looked around me several times at all the other cars on the highway, and wondered if the people driving home at the end of their work day, were also listening to the venom coming out of their radios. And did they listen to it every day, week after week, month after month? If so, how could they avoid being infected by it? I felt incredibly sorry for them.

    • D, You were travelling through one of the most liberal regions of the country. Yes there is conservative talk radio there as there is everywhere, but you can rest assured most of the drivers in the other cars were not listening to it and did not need your pity.

      I’m curious what you mean by “extreme.” What would be an “extreme” Christian position? That abortion is an injustice? To repeat the words of Saint Paul that it’s wrong to commit sexual sins including same-sex sexual sins?

      It’s interesting to me that you thought those radio hosts wanted to stir up “fear and anger,” since that’s exactly what the blog host does in his rants against Christians because of their race or because of their politics.

  8. My husband and I thank you, we spent 40 years in the church and we have witnessed everything you speak of. We no longer attend a church exactly because of this. The turning on each other has already begun. When they split a church and run out anyone who thinks a little differently than them, one would think they would be happy, but then they argue amongst themselves and there is another split. We attended a very vibrant, caring church when my husband retired, a group came in and they knew better than anyone else what was needed, harassed the pastor and those that supported him, now it is a shell of itself, they cut back on their children’s programs, no children, and they can’t get anyone to run the ones they have. It is a shame but they will tell you they are winning because they weeded out the sinners. It makes no sense. I thank you for saying the stuff that needs to said. Bless you, Peace……………

  9. I have to ask…

    So who hires people before vetting their backgrounds? Isn’t that just plain irresponsible? Makes one wonder even more what is being hidden in those tax returns.

    “Six Staffers Escorted Out Of White House After Failing Background Checks”

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/six-staffers-escorted-out-of-white-house-after-failing-background-checks/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_content=2017-02-17&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

  10. “White Christian Who Voted For Trump”

    Once again we are being vilified by Mr. Trump-On-The-Brain. Once again we and Trump are being scapegoated in order to gain a following.

    Don’t anyone tell me “I don’t belong here” because this post is directed at ME and my good brothers and sisters and not at YOU. He is attacking me and not you.

    This divisiveness is not the work of a true “pastor.”

    What does this pastor say I need to do to be saved? To overcome my sins? To attain heaven and avoid hell?

        • therefore the more you harass John Pavlovitz the more credible he becomes– you see it is a never ending back and forth sliding scale– you will never win this game.

          • I’m not harassing him.

            I’m “resisting” him to borrow a word from his vocabulary. I would gladly have a civil conversation with him, but he’s too busy working on his next post trashing Trump or white Christians.

            I don’t really expect to “win” anything. Posting here against this anti-Trump madness is a form of therapy, besides the fact that it’s possible someone might ponder what I’m saying as well as what other “dissenters” are saying.

            I’m posting in good-faith. You, on the other hand, are not.

            • Joe, I’m posting in good-faith. You, on the other hand, are not.

              You said “Posting here against this anti-Trump madness is a form of therapy,”

              you see you are assuming the worst of people whereas I am responding to your history of attacking people in the comment section.

              So tell me again how you are posting in good faith?

  11. Well that was depressing . I continue to pray , for our country, my church and each person who feels they can speak their “now legitimized by Trump” self centered ,white entitled slams against me because they believe I supported the other side.

    • What’s Sad::is Christ-ians, first half of that word is Christ “Jesus”. Color or Nationality Doesn’t Matter Christians is the Light Of Jesus Christ in Us, it’s not about people that Voted for Trump that’s between them & God because if they saw nothing Wrong with the Hate & Racism Trump spoke oh well. Alot of White Christians had Hidden Racism in them before Trump, Trump just allow them to bring it to serfice, 8, 9, & 10 year old child calling children of minority out of their names because their Racism parents feel it’s OK now Trump in office. This isn’t only about Trump, it’s about white people that’s been hiding their Hate towards all people of Color. Love Thy Neighbor, Love is God’s Greatest Commandment, white, black or green Christian you know this, so if you want to Defend Trump go ahead that’s your Right, but you are Defending the Breaking of God Commandment, Remember that Racist Christians, Also I am a black woman of God & We have Ignorant Black Racist Also & They are Wrong Also this is about the Blood Of Jesus, He did Not Die for Color or Nationality How can Real True Christians that know fight among each other, when one is Right & one is Wrong. Right “Love & the Blood” Wrong Hate & Judging. Heavenly Father Your People & Your Nation Needs You More Know Than Ever, Christians Don’t See The Book Of Revalation Unfolding In Front Of Them & Billions Of Christians Won’t Make It😑

  12. How the Father explained it to me, “The sheep wish to go into the forest, it is on fire but they cannot see the flames. If you try to stop them the will only pick-up speed and resent your warnings. You must wait until they are singed and be there on the other side with the salve. Only then will they be receptive to your words of enlightenment”. I don’t mind saying, I’m having a hard time with this directive.

  13. I have never felt comfortable around white evangelical Christians. As a young child I attended church with friends or relatives that this was their choice of church, but for me it was always a scary place. My thought is that Trump has given permission to the already racist people amongst the evangelicals to let their hate show to the outside world.
    Many people are sheep and even though they do not have the same hatred in their hearts, they don’t stand up against it. It certainly isn’t restricted to just white evangelical Christians. There are a lot of pious ultra orthodox Jews who are following Trump and his haters. It is really a paradox.
    It has to be said loud and clear by the good people everywhere – in the churches, in the streets, in the public gatherings – that we do not accept this man and his hate. We must make it clear that he is not our leader, he is not the face of democracy and certainly not the face of a Christian.

  14. Honesty is important – as a follower of the teachings or Jesus, I hold honesty as a point of faith. So, given the importance of honesty, let’s put #45 in perspective:
    1972 – Nixon – 520 ECV Electoral College Votes [ECV]
    1980 – Reagan – 489 ECV
    1984 – Reagan – 525 ECV
    1988 – [Daddy] Bush – 426 ECV
    1992 – Clinton – 370 ECV
    1996 – Clinton – 379 ECV
    2008 – Obama – 365 ECV
    2012 – Obama – 332 ECV
    2016 – #45 – 304 ECV [not 306 as he claims]
    Seems to me, the election is not as “historical” as some claim – know history, it will save so much junk talk 🙂
    EDITED NOTE: This was in response to #45’s comment that he received the highest number of ECV in history – which he changed to “of republicans since Reagan” – to which he changed to “that is what I was told.” The list is only designed to show those who received over 304 ECV – it does not list those who received under 304. There were others, post 1964 [Johnson – 486] but I did not desire to go back that far. Click the link below for additional results.
    You can check it out yourself at: https://www.archives.gov/…/electoral-colle…/votes/index.html

      • Yes, he does. His lies are blatant. How can people swallow them? How can people support him who claim to know Jesus when he has not a single shred of faith about him? In fact, Trump consistently acts contrary to the Gospels.

          • Just today six WH staffers were escorted out by security and fired because they flunked the FBI security review.

            What kind of person hires people to serve in the WH who can’t pass the security checks? I think it is the kind of person who doesn’t think the law applies to him.

            • A bigger problem would be if Trump didn’t fire them. Glad their out now.

              I guess that past drug use, or DUIs disqualified them. A poor driving record, or poor credit rating is another reason to be dismissed.

              • Or ties to Russia….

                What I don’t understand is how they could have been hired before the security check. No responsible employer does the security check after hiring. Still, I suppose it’s good they were caught sooner rather than later, but this really ought to raise even more questions about who is qualified in that staff and Cabinet.

              • Trump didn’t want to fire Flynn and still praises the liar. Flynn had to quit because he lied to the FBI even Trump couldn’t ignore that.

                • A few days ago, or possibly last week in a different series of comments to a different blog post, someone rattled on to me in a trollish manner about how exquisitely qualified Flynn was. Now it looks like he was flirting with treasonous behavior. Wonder what that person who was praising him thinks now?

                  • I refuted your contention that every single Trump appointee was unqualified for their job because it’s very obviously not true. I didn’t mention General Flynn, though, so maybe it was someone else.

                    To be honest, I did believe he was qualified to be the National Security Advisor. His decades spent in the army make him quite knowledgeable concerning that particular field. The second it was revealed he lied to the VP, though, I felt he should be shown the door. Doesn’t matter how knowledgeable and experienced you are if you’re not honest with your boss. I changed my opinion when confronted with additional info. Imagine that.

                    • You failed to convince me tht every single one of Trump’s proposed Cabinet is anything but unqualified.

                      I have no idea who defended Flynn, but since we now know he flirts with potentially treasonous behavior, I think his lack of qualifications speak for themselves.

                      Anyone who would defend potentially treasonous behavior makes me wonder about that person’s own allegiance to the USA.

                    • That’s because you don’t care to hear anything that doesn’t comport with your far left worldview. I provided ample evidence that several of his cabinet picks were extremely qualified for their departments. Because they were appointed by President Trump, and you appear to detest anything GOP, you refuse to admit it. Instead you make blanket statements without any grounding in reality, like all of his cabinet picks are unqualified, and label a troll anyone who provides actual evidence that you’re wrong. Or, stick your fingers in your ears and yell “nananana! I can’t hear you!” like my three year old.

                      Prove me wrong, though. Why is Secretary Mattis unqualified to be SECDEF. Why was every senator, democrat and republican, but one wrong to approve his nomination? Why is Gloriamarie right, and all of them are wrong. I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer.

  15. Thank you. For years I have been feeling guilty because I couldn’t bring myself to attend Church anymore after many years of never missing it. I felt as if Church was not keeping with the Gospel, and it hurt to not be a part of it any longer. But it all makes sense now. And, you’re right; it is up to us to bring Jesus’ love and compassion to the world. It always has been. Maybe these dark times aren’t without hope…the true message of Jesus can be reborn by returning to the basics: Love God and Loving one another.

  16. John,
    Please be careful not to be “the one” on the other side of the isle that is spreading hate, fear and anger. While “some” very popular white Christian may have been part of Trump being elected – not ALL white Christians are supportive of him. If you are talking white Christian politicians, well I have never believed for 1 minute that any of them were truly Christian. They wear that label around election time to drag along their constituents. It’s not real Christianity.
    Please be careful because some of us that are “white Christians” might be wondering what your motivation is: is this really to call attention to an issue or are you trying to start a movement to hate all white Christians. I hope not the latter because I have just discovered you in the last year and have enjoyed the content of your writing, often feeling you are writing what I’m thinking.

    • I get what you are saying but it is solid truth that it truly is the “white Christians Church” that is on the Trump Train – unfortunately the church is still a very segregated place in America – the black churches and Hispanic churches around the nation were overwhelmingly against Trump – the Republican Party knows their voting power lies in keeping White Christian Evangelicals on board because they – in large numbers – have been brainwashed to think that God demands they vote Republican – but I understand your feelings – I am a White Christian who saw through Mr. Trump right away and am appalled at how alone I feel among my Christian friends when it comes to Mr. Trump…scary.

      • The concept of a “white church” or a “black church” or an “Hispanic church” is totally foreign to me.

        There is ONE Church which embraces all. At least that’s how I see it as a Catholic. We don’t have black or white Catholic Churches.

        I have been to Catholic masses in several different languages and where different cultures prevailed, but I was always home and in my own church and likewise for any of them visiting my local home church.

        It’s wrong to divide Christians by race. It’s wrong to single out a particular race and vilify members of that race. It’s racist to do so and is very divisive. It sows seeds of discord instead of unity. It’s not “pastoral” at all.

    • As a white person who follows Jesus, I knew who he was talking about and I suspect most people who know anything about the White Christian Church in America knew who he was talking to. As a white follower I am not insulted, as my mother used to say, if the shoe fits…… I know the shoe does not fit me, I have my issues but trying to put lipstick on a pig isn’t one of them. Those it fits won’t hear the words but the rest of us will and it is up to us. Peace………………….

      • Kathleen, yes. I have frequently noticed the only people who object to what John P says are the very people he is trying to reach. He holds up a mirror and they don’t like what they see in it, so they blame John P instead of taking responsibility for their own issues to come out of denial so the light can pierce the darkness and the truth set them free.

  17. Absolutely spot on truth. When the American Christian Church sold out to the Republican Party years ago, they sold their soul for power and now they are reaping what they have sown…the problem is, they are lumping all of us who try hard to be Jesus followers into the same group and are tainting the name of Christ for a long time to come…how sad.

    • I might be inclined to take “white progressive christians” more seriously if they would align themselves on the side of life from conception until natural death. Otherwise I see that whatever faults other Christians have, the Progressives have many skeletons of their own in their closets…millions of tiny little skeletons.

      • Joe you are losing grip– we know as Christians we can’t compare ourselves to each other. Your imagination is out of control.– vain futile imaginings. Get back to the gospel man !

  18. Dear John Pavlovitz:

    It is fundamentally dishonest to portray current events through a partisan lens.

    The initial Trump administration ICE raids to which you refer were routine operations; and even if Mr. Trump claimed them as his own, they were planned by the Obama administration.

    President Obama not only deported more people than any previous administration — he deported more people than all administrations combined.

    I take no exception to the portraiture of President Trump as a wolf. But failure to recognize the wolfish-ness character of the war criminal President Obama, and the representation of these attacks as a partisan conflict puts you in fundamental opposition to the ninth commandment.

    Broadly speaking, the evangelical community has sold its soul to the wolfish philosophy of the Republican Party. But the Democratic Party is equally guilty.

    Marx summed the difference nicely by telling us that behind the velvet glove ever resides the iron fist of the state.

    The difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is that the former wears no velvet glove.

    Blessings!

    • Thank you gdd.

      Ah, the politics of division.

      Why are ‘White’ Evangelicals getting blasted in the comment section here?

      Has there been a stampede of Hispanic Evangelicals embracing Same-Sex marriage, or Abortion Rights? Black Evangelicals? Asians Evangelicals? Why is the race important?

      It is the politics of racism, race-baiting and nothing but.

      As for the ‘wolves’:
      They wouldn’t be the people killing actual Christians – oh no! Not the people throwing homosexuals off buildings, or kidnapping girls and forcing them to marry – nope – not them. Those sentencing a mother to death because she chose to convert to Christianity. No, not those wolves.

      No. Shame on those wacky Christians … whoops, almost forgot … those WHITE Christians … dang it! … those White AMERICAN Christians for thinking Trump is a Christian President, or ignoring how un-Christian he is. That MUST be the problem.

      Of all the huge things going on in the world and all he evils … this is the important thing … reminding us how divided we are on how Americans view Christ and Christianity …

      And best of all, these endless diatribes of hatred and loathing of our President go on and on without a hint of repercussions, punishments, or actual fear. Plenty of ‘this, that, and the other group’ are going to suffer from the Trump Tyranny real soon … but there are undocumented individuals posting rants against POTUS … which really doesn’t sell the fear, ya know?

      In closing … just another daily dose of anger, impotence and fear-mongering from Pastor Pavlovitz. An enjoyable (cough, cough) end of my day. Still, I have to wonder, as The Black Eyed Peas once sang out, ‘Where is the Love?’

      • Tired of your boyish charm Dosher, time to grow up and face reality….FYI… you don’t need to physically kill people to be a wolf you only have to quietly and spiritually kill… which is what religious people do…. so they don’t have to get their hands dirty. Haven’t you figured that out yet?

        wake up pretty boy !

      • I already said all that Dosher.

        Except you said it much better.

        Would you agree that if we could choose only one word which best defines our race-baiting fear-mongering pastor it would be “demagogue”?

            • Oh– is James Dosher the demagogue now? Wow you see demagogues everywhere. You are kind of obsessed with demagoguery aren’t you. Hey, I have an idea why don’t you pay attention to your life rather than staying up nights wasting your time with assinine comments and morose commentaries that lead nowhere.

        • No, Joe isn’t jealous– he just feels heavy laden and weary, come Joe, come to the water, drink freely, don’t worry about the LGBT people or the immigrants or Muslims or atheists OR those who COVET another man’s wife– you will feel right at home with the sinners and strangers and such– come and buy without cost, why eat what is not good? for I am gentle and lowly of mind– hear me I am knocking at the door, let me in and I will sit down and share a meal with you– feed my sheep– don’t trample and muddy the waters and butt heads– enter my rest.

  19. Just read this and it seems to be appropriate to this discussion

    Spiritual Practice of the Day
    A dragon was pulling a bear into its terrible mouth.

    A courageous man went and rescued the bear.
    There are such helpers in the world, who rush to save
    anyone who cries out. Like Mercy itself,
    they run toward the screaming.

    And they can’t be bought off.
    If you were to ask one of those, “Why did you come
    so quickly?” He or she would say, “Because I heard
    your helplessness.”

    Where lowland is,
    that’s where water goes. All medicine wants
    is pain to cure.

    And don’t just ask for one mercy.
    Let them flood in. Let the sky open under your feet.
    Take the cotton out of your ears, the cotton
    of consolations, so you can hear the sphere-music. . . .

    Give your weakness
    to One Who Helps.

    Crying out loud and weeping are great resources.
    A nursing mother, all she does
    is wait to hear her child.

    Just a little beginning-whimper,
    and she’s there.

    God created the child, that is, your wanting,
    so that it might cry out, so that milk might come.

    Cry out! Don’t be stolid and silent
    with your pain. Lament! And let the milk
    of Loving flow into you.

    The hard rain and wind
    are ways the cloud has
    to take care of us.

    Be patient.
    Respond to every call
    that excites your spirit.

    Ignore those that make you fearful
    and sad, that degrade you
    back toward disease and death.

    — Jelaluddin Rumi, Coleman Barks in Delicious Laughter by Jelaluddin Rumi

  20. I am really beginning to believe that John is a repressed Homosexual! He is clearly an angry and bitter man. The bull crap he writes is astounding! There was nothing good about Bill “Slick Willie” Clinton, yet White people and Black people voted for a man that raped women, abused women, used women, and took advantage of a young immature woman in his office, the Oval office. Did he write anything about that clown we called our “President” for eight years?

    Hillary is a Lesbian, and I’m sure that’s why John wanted to see her become President, so she could continue all of the perversion that the gay President, Barack Obama, forced on our country. I’m glad that witch didn’t win, and I hope that “Pastor” John gets help for his anger and stupidity! And for the record, this is from a Black man!

    • Ummm the Republicans IMPEACHED Clinton and the Evangelical Church screamed “morality is more important than economics” about Clinton – the infuriating thing is they are all in for Mr. Trump now because he ran on THEIR party ticket and he is just as immoral and evil as Bill Clinton was – the hypocrisy is astounding….

    • Wayne– over time you have become a vile man who repeats false stories, you know nothing about– get back to the gospel, man !

    • Dear Wayne:

      ‘Hillary is a Lesbian.’

      Proof! Where?

      If not, your options are these:

      1] Withdraw your remark, with confession for violating the ninth commandment.
      2] Forum participants recognize you to be in violation of the ninth commandment.

      Blessings!

    • Hi Wayne… Still single-mindedly hate-filled, I see. Sex still on the brain? Do us all a favor and be chemically castrated, won’t you?

      • An observation from an old lady, the people in the church leadership who yelled the loudest about gays and lesbians turned out to be gay or lesbian. Just saying…..Peace………..

        • The guy gives me a pain, you know where, but I don’t want to get him started on that subject. For the record, I repented after I hit the post button… I’m more of a dumb — for responding than he is for commenting.

  21. John, that is a strong indictment of the righteous right and well deserved.
    So what are you – what are we going to do about it??

    Now is indeed a time of mourning but that time must close quickly – changing to the overpowering protector of those who never fell for the ‘demagogue in chief’ and those who did but now see the error of their thinking.
    Who will be the protector and mouth piece for the DJT unbeliever?

    There is a reason and a purpose for everything under the sun. Yes, even the ‘demagogue in chief’ has a lasting purpose and while we cannot know the end from the beginning we do know that every great and worthy event in life started with something rotten, something foul in need of re-birth AND in need of the “Builders and Architects” of life to erect something better.

    Let’s get that foundation in place NOW!

  22. JP, if I understand your thesis correctly you are looking from the perspective of a white person and speaking to what your tribe has done– the White ‘American Pie’ tribe. I don’t buy the complaint commenters, like Vicki, have against your use of White American Christians in your post and then they turn around and say, “I completely agree with most of your posts that what is going on in Washington is horrific. And the evengelical support ofnit even more so. ” I think it is insincere and hides a deeper problem of pride.

    It’s time to take action– apologize and stop trying to justify yourself and do something.

    Pavlovitz is right about this– people of this nation are like sheep. They rely on those in offices of power to do right by them. The only power regular people have is their voice and the little spare time they have in between work and caring for their families. There is a reason why God will judge the teachers and leaders of the day more harshly
    — when the teachers side with wolves or they don’t do anything about the wolves– they are complicit with the wolves.

    If anyone wants a proof text read Ezekiel 34 for some clues on what Ezekiel says God thinks about religious leaders and teachers of his time who take care of themselves and neglect those who are in need.

  23. Hello John, I must admit, I honestly didn’t get far into this op-ed piece. I am old, but no that old. I am tired without having reason to be tired. Our foundational struggle has been and always will be against “generalization” regardless of how we may wrap it up nicely into a high moral argument. Generalization of any type is the very foundation of prejudice and is always 100% false. I have had to battle against generalization concerning our homeless, poor, our sick, racism misogyny, homophobia and more. All these things start out with the myths attached to a segment of society to generalize them. We are called to speak the truth and any type of generalization does not fit that criteria. Leave race out of your arguments please and state what was factual, that 54% of all those who announce themselves as Christians voted against many of the most important Biblical principles we should have live. 46% of those who announce the Christianity voted for those principles we should live by. 19% of White Evangelicals stood against Trump in this election. Instead of denouncing all “White Evangelicals” I want to thank those 19% for standing by our “Red Letter” principles as oppose to throwing them into the fire with the other 81%. Christianity in the end is an individualized personal relationship with God. Hopefully we will understand that before we make generalized comments which do harm against those who are not guilty of the sin we speak out against. Blessing Brother…

    • James you said, ” We are called to speak the truth and any type of generalization does not fit that criteria. ”

      The Bible is full of generalizations– so is it the truth ?

      • The Bible is full but not Jesus my friend. The Samaritans of his time were the most generalize population while He walked the earth and yet He himself addressed in that in both actions and speech. Red Letter Christianity seeks to walk in the verses of Christ Jesus. Even in the city of Sodom, if just 10 righteous people were to be found, the entire City would have escaped judgement. In the case of this post, over 4 million white Evangelicals against Trump and yet were judge with the other 20 million who voted for him. The story of Sodom and how the Samaritans were treated by the Jewish population as compared to the way Jesus treated them, is a good lesson for all of us when we seek to generalize certain segments of society. Thank you for your response and blessings.

  24. I go to church with John, I don’t know him but when I see him I see a “white” man, “a pastor”, a “husband and father” and a regular guy. It never dawns on me to judge him for what seems like a very “privileged life”. So I can’t wrap my brain around why he seems to judge others without really knowing them. Just something to think about. I think I should make an attempt to introduce myself to John (since we go to the same church) and maybe we can both try and understand each other.

    • This is probably a planted falsehood used to subvert John Pavlovitz’s credibility– just someone playing mind games.

    • I want my email info to be published. I am Tammie Terrano (tterrano@gmail.com), I am a part of NRCC and I really want to talk to John. You are the youth pastor at my church, I want my grandkids to be a part of NRCC and I want to understand you. I am going to make an effort to meet with you so we can talk through our “differences”. I am really confident that we can understand each other! I will make a point to connect with you. Plus, I have had the opportunity to meet your wife and your sweet kids, they are amazing!!! You must be an amazing person to have such a sweet family. Can’t wait to meet you in person……..I will make sure it happens.

      • Why would you want your grandchildren brainwashed by this man?

        Check out some of the Catholic youth groups in town too. I can guarantee that their youth ministers do not spend their time railing against Christians because of the color of their skin and will not preach politics as if it is a religion. They won’t be suffering from TDS either. (Trump Derangement Syndrome). The focus will be on the big picture–avoiding Hell and making it to Heaven.

        • you are the one brainwashed– haha– I don’t even agree with everything John Pavlovitz says — you are pounding sand and don’t even know it — so sad !

      • I want to applaud you for making the commitment to talk to our blog author personally, though it is tinged with sadness that he has been a leader in your church for some time and you have not spoken to him yet. Then again, perhaps your church is so large that it is indeed difficult to get to speak with the leadership; the largest one I ever attended regularly only had about 300 adult members.
        I think such a conversation would be fruitful for both you *and* John. Age is another way we too often segregate ourselves. I know the person who most influenced my theology outside of family was my youth group leader and he was the same age as my grandparents. As a grandparent now myself, I know that keeping in contact with those younger than me helps keep me in contact with the greater world too. It’s too easy to look at my younger years through rose colored glasses and think everything was great back then, but that it’s all gone to hell in a hand basket since when it really hasn’t (even though I have, at least physically).
        I hope your conversation with John is forthcoming and pray that you are both refreshed the Blessed Spirit that will be there with you.

        • …makes me kind of wonder what her ‘differences’ are with NRCC?

          Pastor Hammack’s vision is to offer a Spiritual Journey to his congregants, through ancient spiritual practices (transcendental meditation, enneagrams, Reiki), history, psychology (Jungian archetypes) & science.

          • I’d be very worried that the youth minister would use his position to indoctrinate the youth into his left-wing politics and Trump-hateism.

  25. John:
    I disagree with Evangelicals at almost every turn but I’d never doubt their commitment to God. Many Evangelicals spoke out against Trump. Many felt that they were in a bind – between two equally unappealing candidates. Even as life long Democrat – someone who voted for and donated to Hillary I can’t blame them for their choice.
    I hold a tremendous amount of love for Evangelicals. It was Evangelicals who came to our aid after Katrina. Who kept me fed. It was Evangelicals who put a new roof on my home after the storm. It’s Evangelicals from my former church who check in on me and my family. Progressive Christians? They’ve been the biggest bunch of d-bags I’ve ever met. Rude, condensing jerks. I went to progressive churches for 5 years. Even though I attended every Sunday most didn’t even bother to learn my name. They kept thinking I was new. So say want you want about the Evangelicals – but they cared for me when I was sick, fed me when I was hungry, gave me shelter when I had none. Progressives? Didn’t bother to learn my name.

  26. John, I agree on everything here except that not all folks who call themselves Christians, or even all white folks, as the title implies, even voted for Trump, nor do they approve of his policies. On the other hand, because of the LOUDLY proclaimed hatred by many idiots who call themselves Christians but are really alt-Christians, I stopped calling myself a ‘Christian’ years ago. I call myself a Progressive Christian or simply, “A Follower of Christ” because I don’t want to be identified with them. They are a major embarrassment. God bless!!!

    • I meant to say a “Practical Christian”, not a “Progressive Christian”, thanks! I belong to an online group called The Association of Practical Christians.

  27. Dear John
    Everything about this essay is great … except for the title.
    It should read “Right-wing American Christians”, not White American Christians”.
    The hatred towards Christianity on the whole seems to be at an all time high, please don’t add to it. You have an enormous audience and a huge responsibility to speak fairly about those of us who truly love Jesus, live lives devoted to following His word, and who call ourselves Christians.
    Thanks,
    Kim

    • Do you come here merely to find fault? I think it is a given, for anyone who reads John P’s blog that he means the Christian Right in the USA and he doesn’t have to constantly repeat himself. He’d never get anything new said if he wrote to please people. He writes what the Holy Spirit lays on his heart.

    • A large percentage of practicing Catholics also voted for Trump, to their credit. I think he should add “Catholics” to his hate-list. We deserve some credit too.

    • The “White American Christians” is a reference to the fact that “old and white” Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals, including those of them on the so-called “Religious Right,” were the people who elected Trump. It also refers to the white nationalist, Ku Klux Klan, skinhead, private white militia, and other such white miscreants who came together in droves to vote for Trump. It also refers to the many white policemen who pull over the cars of my black friend who is doing nothing wrong just to hassle him because God made him black—and the white citizens who support these white cops in the harassing of my friend.

      Yes, I know that all white Christians did not vote for Trump. However, I also know that all white Christians who did not vote for Trump failed to speak out against those who did, sat quietly in their homes, and just went along with the flow—not wishing to piss off their friends or preacher at church. My words for them: Cowards and Abandoners of the Faith.

      I would like to add one other thing. I am getting tired of white Christians, Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals. and people on the so-called Religious Right speaking about people like John P. and Me painting them dark with too broad a brush:

      “I’m not anything like them. You should speak to us on an individual basis ONLY because each person is an individual.”

      Talk about a right wing extremist ploy to divide and conquer!!! The United States has 320,000,000 people, and the only way people can be fairly criticized is on an “individual basis.” Never mind that just about every academic discipline there is deals with things and people in aggregate groups. But most of all, never mind that the Christian fundamentalists, conservative evangelicals, white nationalists, and people on the so-called Religious Right have been using the same kinds of aggregates and stereotypes for the purposes of criticizing and beating up on those they regard as their enemies and the enemies of God.

      You can “only criticize me as an individual” is a right wing extremist demand for all their opponents to quit blocking the highway; to step aside; and to give them a free and open road to do all the evil they want to do to whomever they want, whenever they want, and wherever they want with total impunity and with no criticism.

      My message: YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE GETTING IT. WE ARE GOING TO BE CRAWLING ALL OVER YOU LIKE A DUCK ON A JUNE BUG AND RIDING YOUR BUTT HARD UNTIL YOU WAKE UP. WE ARE GOING TO BE CALLING YOU OUT DAILY. WE ARE GOING TO BEAT YOUR DARKNESS UNTIL IT BLEEDS DAYLIGHT–EVEN IF IT TAKES FOREVER.

      Just sayin’.

      • So why are black Evangelicals exempted from Pavlovitz’ diatribes?

        Just curious–have you revised your doomsday date, or are we all nuclear waste within the next 23 months? If you’re sticking with that, then what the hell are you doing here? Build that rocket or bomb shelter. Maybe there is some hope for you and your loved ones.

        Meanwhile, for those of us who think the world is going to be around for a long time, if someone posted something about “black liberals needing to shape up,” there would be all kinds of howling about racism from the very people who single out white people. I don’t see why I would want to separate white and black liberals unless I were a racist. They are all on the wrong page.

        • Without ACA, how many sick people will die?

          Before people began getting health insurance under the Affordable Care Act (ACA), the Commonwealth Fund projected that as many as 84,000 people were dying each year because they lacked access to care. In fact, the Commonwealth Fund ranked the U.S. at the bottom of its list of wealthy nations on preventable deaths–96 for every 100,000 people in 2006-07. With health care costs continuing to rise way faster than inflation, we need to consider how many sick people will die after the Republican leadership repeals the ACA?

          Stat news reports that organizations representing patients with costly conditions fear that ACA repeal will undo health care protections that people in poor health need. Their particular focus is on how to keep insurers from refusing to cover people with pre-existing conditions. That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

          What’s likely to happen once the ACA is repealed? It wouldn’t be surprising if the Republicans allowed insurers to revert to their old ways: If so, insurers will sell expensive policies that leave people with inadequate coverage when they need costly health care and will likely deny coverage to people with costly health care needs or charge exorbitant premiums, very high deductibles and/or very high copays.

          Here’s what people without employer coverage and not yet eligible for Medicare should likely expect from commercial insurers:

          May read the rest here:
          http://justcareusa.org/without-aca-how-many-sick-people-will-die/?link_id=10&can_id=aac248234d067d672dba041bb62601e0&source=email-higher-medicare-costs-if-aca-repealed&email_referrer=higher-medicare-costs-if-aca-repealed&email_subject=higher-medicare-costs-if-aca-repealed

        • ‘Enemies of the people’: Trump remark echoes history’s worst tyrants

          At a different time, in another country, it was effectively a death sentence.

          Being branded an “enemy of the people” by the likes of Stalin or Mao brought at best suspicion and stigma, at worst hard labour or death.

          Now the chilling phrase – which is at least as old as Emperor Nero, who was called “hostis publicus”, enemy of the public, by the Senate in AD 68 – is making something of a comeback.

          In November, the UK Daily Mail used its entire front page to brand three judges “enemies of the people” following a legal ruling on the Brexit process.
          Then on Friday, President Donald Trump deployed the epithet against mainstream US media outlets that he sees as hostile.

          “The FAKE NEWS media (failing New York Times, NBC News, ABC, CBS, CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!” he wrote on Twitter.

          Read here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39015559?ocid=socialflow_twitter

          • The fact that no one, anywhere and on any platform, is afraid to challenge or mock President Trump suggests he’s nothing like Stalin or Mao. No one is getting sent to Siberia for speaking out against him. People might be getting sent back to Mexico, but that’s where they’re from, and Mexico isn’t putting them in work camps.

            He may be thin skinned and egotistical, but he’s right about the media. They were in the tank for Clinton (CNN actively tried to help her beat Bernie by slipping her debate questions in advance), and have continued to be obviously partisan since he beat her. President Obama used the national guard to enforce immigration law, but the AP still went through the roof when a draft DHS memo suggested something similar, and completely invented the 100,000 figure. It’s not for no reason a large portion of the population doesn’t trust them anymore.

              • Stop comparing everyone you disagree with to Hitler. It’s intellectually lazy, and demeans the millions of people killed because of him. Trump isn’t Hitler because he actually suggests enforcing immigration law. Trump isn’t Hitler because he wants to temporarily suspend allowing refugees from certain countries. I don’t even like the guy. Damn you for making me defend him.

                • It’s not a comparison when I cite historical fact. If you are ignorant of history don’t blame me. If you are ignorant of the tenets of fascism, don’t blame me.

                  I don’t make comparisons, I cite actual history. Educate yourself.

                  As for wishing damnation upon, I’m the rubber you’re the glue. Anything you say to me bounces off of me and sticks to you.

                  Come to think of it, that’s Biblical. Jesus does say that it is not what goes into a person’s mouth that defiles, but what comes out. You defile yourself when you wish damnation upon another.

                  • To quote: isn’t Hitler because he actually suggests enforcing immigration law. Trump isn’t Hitler because he wants to temporarily suspend allowing refugees from certain countries.

                    Trump hasn’t suggested enforcing immigration law. He’s suggested building a boondoggle wall that will do absolutely nothing, it will not stop illegal immigration, it will do nothing of what he promises. It will just be a 2000 mile long trillion dollar monument to Trump’s sociopathic narcissism.

                    And as for the refugees..tell me..why is he not banning people from the countries that actually produced terrorists that actually attacked us? You know..like Saudi Arabia and the UAE and Egypt.

                    Oh wait..could it be because he has business interests in those countries?

                    The United States has not seen a 9-11 level attack in 16 years. Obviously not banning refugees hasn’t placed the United States at such a level of risk that we have to stupidly repeat what we did to the Nisei.

                    We helped create the refugee crisis, child, we have a responsibility to help fix the problem we created. And treating all refugees as terrorists merely gives groups like ISIL what they want. It allows them to run around saying “See! We told you. The United States and the West hates Muslims and wants them dead!” We already vet refugees for nearly 2 years before they can even have a chance of coming here.

                    And the reason Trump wants to give ISIL what they want? Because he is a scared stupid little ***** who is all too willing to surrender the ideals of the United States in the name of fear and hate. And he oh so wants you to do the same. He uses refugees and others as scapegoats. He blames them for the ills of average Americans. Because its oh so easier to blame the “other” than to look within and see where the cause of the problem really is. And in that way, child, he is exactly like Hitler. Because lets remember..Hitler didn’t start with saying “kill the Jews.”

                    I hope you don’t consider yourself a Christian because you have apparently forgotten that Jesus Christ was a refugee. Oh and He looked Middle Eastern too.

                    You don’t defend the United States by surrendering the ideals of the United States.

                  • Get over yourself. I’ve been on this page long enough that you care very little for factual accuracy. Weren’t you the one who made the claim that the stock market dropped 2000 points when Trump was elected?

            • No, Anon, CNN was not actively in the tank for Hillary. Or did you remember them hiring Corey Lewandowski and other Trump people and allowing them to shill for Don the Con unopposed? Hell Lewandowski was still getting paid by the Trump campaign when he was working for CNN. So get real.

              • and then we’re going to talk about Faux News, Anon, which firmly had its lips planted around the tiny flaccid member of Trump and still does.

              • Do you really not remember Donna Brazile acknowledging getting questions in advance, and giving them to the Clinton campaign? If that’s not “in the tank,” nothing is.

                You’re right though. Fox leans way right. One of the networks likes Trump! We can ignore the crap the rest of them regularly spout!

                • Do you really want to bet Corey Lewandowski didn’t?

                  Do you really want to bet fox news didnt?

                  if cnn was so In the bag for hillary they wouldn’t have hired Lewandowski, Jeff lord, scottie nell hughes, and Kayleigh mcenany

                  They would have tore trump apart for his lies, his frauds, his contempt, the sheer number for lawsuits, his ties to russia.

                  and they even wouldn’t have so breathlessly regurgitated the gop hypocritical bs about hillary , the emails and benghazi.

                • Conservative whining about bias in the media would be a lot more credible if these facts didn’t exist:

                  1: Conservatives seem to think unbiased media is media that kisses the ass of the GOP all the time.

                  2: They didn’t have Fox News which does kiss the ass of the GOP all the time

                  3: Weren’t the ones that got rid of the fairness doctrine.

                  oh I’ll add a fourth.

                  4: If Faux News hadn’t sued the US government in order to be able to lie to its viewers.

                  Trump spent a year and a half twisting the media around his little…finger during the campaign and you jokers have the chutzpah to kvetch about “the media is so unfair to Trump.”

                  Oh ****ing please, get over yourselves.

                • To quote Anon: You’re right though. Fox leans way right. One of the networks likes Trump! We can ignore the crap the rest of them regularly spout!

                  Well, Anon, if you were really so interested in fairness in the media and the media being unbiased then you would be kvetching at Faux News for being so biased that they have their lips firmly planted on Trump’s and the GOP’s arse.

                  That you don’t makes your kvetching about the rest of the media blatantly hypocritical.

                  I’m so sick and tired of the right wing’s double standard bs of “How dare liberals/Democrats do but it’s fine when the GOP/Conservatives do it” i could barf.

                  • oh also I would point out one little thing.

                    The claim “The media is so unfair to Trump” is also BS because of one Steve Bannon of Breitbart currently sitting in the White House.

                    Yes I know it’s a stretch of honesty to call Breitbart part of the media but alas it thinks it is.

                    So to all you conservatives who so love to whine about “the media being biased” I have a suggestion.

                    Your complaints would have a lot more credibility if y’all cleaned up your own side of the aisle first.

                    Until then you are engaging in a double standard. So its about time you put your supposed principle into action even if it may cost your side of the political fence..or it’s time y’all knock off the hypocritical kvetching.

                    Choose.

    • To quote Kim: The hatred towards Christianity on the whole seems to be at an all time high,

      Might I suggest, Kim, that you examine why that…hostility of Christianity exists. Specifically ask yourself this question: What has Christianity been doing the last few decades to create that situation?

      • It is not Christianity that has been moving toward an all-time high of being hated. It is Christian fundamentalism, conservative evangelicalism, and the so-called Religious Right—and their moves toward politicization of the church—that are the focus of increasing public hatred of Christianity.

        The members of the fundie churches claim that they are the only real Christians on Earth, and all other people who claim to be Christians are lost sinners and faking it—including the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, and Russian Orthodox Church. Any person or group who claims such exclusivity and treats other people like sh*t because of it is just begging for a pogrom (See Jewish history). I kind of look at it like this. Five guys are standing on a straight corner, and one guy makes loud, vocal fun of a bunch of Hell’s Angels as they pass by on their Harleys. The Hell’s Angels shut down their bikes, come over, and beat the crap out of all five guys for what that one guy did. The atheist, agnostic, and “nones” Americans far out number American Christians—no matter how you classify Christians. They falsely see all people who claim to be Christian as one, big, uniform, united, American blob.

        What is going to happen if the fundies keep this nonsense up is that the public anger factor will one day reach a zenith, and they are going to start killing anything that looks like it bears the label Christian. In other words, we United Methodists and you Lutherans are going to die because of people like our friend Leslie here. Now, I don’t mind dying for Jesus—but I gotta tell you—I really resent myself, wife, and kids having to die a horrible death because of some conceited and arrogant fundie a-hole (not you Leslie) who takes joy in hurting other people and thinks he has an exclusive ticket punched for Heaven.

        Everything that is wrong, vicious, and maddening about American Christianity ( widely scoped) all goes back to the Christian fundamentalists, conservative evangelicals, and the wicked Religious Right politicians who pork them.

        Frank knows because he grew up in Fundieland and helped create the Religious Right. He is the son of one of the greatest Reformed Church fundies who ever lived—a man as famous as Billy Graham. Frank then repented of having done it and joined the Eastern Orthodox Church. Give Frank a listen because he speaks truth here:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IaAsBjoaj8

        And Joe. Christian fundamentalists have a long history of hating and persecuting Roman Catholics. They hate you guys in the name of Jesus and believe your church is led, not by a person whose position traces back to Peter, but by the Spirit of Anti-Christ and Satan himself. Just ask a fundie here sometime Joe. Ask one if you are going to Heaven, and see what they say.

    • BfT, IceCube did not support Trump. Icecube’s exact words were ““I will never endorse a mothaf—a like Donald Trump! EVER!!!”

        • Oh and you probably should question, Anon, what point you think you’re trying to make.

          Were/are there blacks that support Trump?

          yes.

          Does that prove that Trump isn’t a racist? No.*

          After all..there were Jews that supported Hitler and that doesn’t prove that Hitler wasn’t an anti-semite.

          *I don’t care to get into an argument on whether or not Trump is a racist. Wasn’t my point. So spare me please.

  28. What Trump got wrong on Twitter this week

    Welcome to the sixth installment of our occasional feature looking at what the president got wrong on Twitter. President Trump spent most of his time on Twitter this week bemoaning news being leaked out of his administration, and attacking the media. Some of the claims he tweeted this week were repeated in his Feb. 16 news conference, which we fact-checked in a roundup. Here’s a look at nine fishy tweets from the past week.

    You may read it here:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/02/17/what-trump-got-wrong-on-twitter-this-week-6/?wpisrc=nl_draw2&wpmm=1

  29. I take exception to this vitriolic editorial, which appears to throw gasoline on the already unnecessarily divisive environment we find ourselves in post-election. “Worst human being”? “completely devoid of goodness and decency”? Those are very loaded words. And again, I witness commentators promulgating a deliberately false and misleading narrative. White Christians were not (and are not) the only demographic who voted for and support President Trump. I watched his speech in Florida last night – it wasn’t a crowd of only white supporters: I saw Hispanics for Trump, gays for Trump, women of all colors in support of Trump, blacks in support of Trump. Those are the real demographics, and the more folks like Mr. Pavolvitiz try to race-bait me into thinking this is about white privilege or Aryan supremacy, the more their personal prejudices come to light. And what does the Bible say about judging and condemning, anyway? If you’re gonna bring religion into this, Mr. Pavlovitz better walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

  30. Why do you guys allow Milo to troll you as Joe Catholic? The guy’s necklaces remind me of Dr. Frank-n-furter in Rocky Horror Picture Show.

  31. Thank you John, for spelling out in plain English, why I left the church, some 45+ years ago, as I saw its hypocritical actions even then and as you so rightly pointed out… its only gotten worse. We of my faith have watched our numbers rise, with those who are leaving Christianity.. in droves for an older view, that believes in personal responsibility, and requires from the start, serous ethics.. our only real law is ” Lest in self defense it be.. Harm none”.. which if followed in truth, is the only one you really need. I do not hate Christianity… as some wrongly assume. that we must hate or else why did we turn from the religion that “follows” him. I honor the Christ, as I do all the faces of the divine.. but I cannot and will not honor what his peace loving faith.. has become.

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