The Christians Who Defunded Jesus

They say a budget is a moral document.

I agree.

The President’s proposed budget and the GOP’s recent maneuvers preceding it, seek to drastically reduce or eliminate funding for programs and services that tend to the urgent needs of our most vulnerable, most on the margins, most threatened citizens—the working poor, the hungry, the homeless, the physically sick, the mentally ill, the disabled, the elderly, those in public housing.

It’s a clear, shameless assault on those Jesus called “the least of these;” the ones he lived in solidarity with while here. He told those who would aspire to his likeness, that their treatment of such marginalized people was a direct act, either of affection or neglect toward him. It was the very measure of their religion. In fact (contrary to what preachers have led you to believe), Jesus says that it is in their response to the marginalized, not any altar call or magic prayer or baptism—that their salvation or condemnation comes.

Many Conservative Christians have long contended that the Church not the Government should care for people, and so they’re currently applauding these tactics by the White House. The problem is that they—the people who voted-in the politicians currently dismantling healthcare, de-funding public schools, and eliminating meal programs—are the same people filling many of the country’s churches (which apparently were already supposed to be doing this least-loving.)

Then exactly where and when is this love going to make an appearance? 

Right now, I don’t see these Christians rushing en masse to come to the aid of the poor and the homeless, to immigrants and refugees and to those on the margins. We’re not witnessing an overwhelming outpouring of compassion from Conservative church folk who have declared that they’re going to repair the homes and make the lunches and pay for the surgeries and watch the children for the millions about to be kicked to the curb by this President and his Leadership—and we shouldn’t be holding our breath.

The truth is, if these same people who call the Evangelical Church home had been following Jesus’ example all along we wouldn’t be having these conversations, would we? If these professed men and women of God were truly burdened to love their brothers and sisters as they would Jesus, this would be a non-issue. But we do have this epidemic of poverty and pain and hunger, and the disheartening truth is that these Christians are the very people always loudly telling the least to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps,”—neglecting the fact that they have no boots to begin with, and now we’re cutting funding to get them any. These people don’t see the ironic tension of a supposedly “Christian nation” that can’t or won’t care for its most vulnerable, brimming with followers of Jesus in leadership who somehow can reason that not feeding people is compassionate. For some reason a country supposedly filled with followers of a man who spent his ministry years healing the sick—is resistant to universal healthcare.

If I could have 30 seconds with the Conservative Church; with these professed men and women of God who are applauding the President and these policies, I’d say the following:

“If feeding and caring for people is indeed the sole role of the Church and not the Government, why are so many people still starving, still hurting? You’ve been open for business for 2,000 years now—supposedly the business of reflecting the character of Jesus and replicating his life. How much longer is it going to take? Just what in the hell have you been waiting for? When in God’s name are you going to tangibly demonstrate an empathy that resembles Jesus, because from where I’m standing, all I can make out is a whole lot of self-righteous judges who seem determined to pass the buck, unwilling to show empathy, and violently allergic to really loving the least.”

To be honest, I’m not convinced that many of these Republican Christians want their Government or the Church to lift people in need. I think they’d prefer to live with the fictional narrative that poor people are poor because they’re lazy, that those in need, are so because of some moral failing or bad decision. This story allows them to keep the stuff they have, to ignore the call to love their neighbor as themselves, and to feel morally superior in the process. 

Jesus says that whatever we do to the poor and the hurting and the hungry—we do to him. That should be a terrifying proposition to supporters of the President who claim the Christian faith or call the American Conservative Church home. This Administration and the many Christians who co-sign its actions toward those who are the most in need of compassion and mercy in these days, are saying with great clarity: “Move along Jesus, we don’t give a damn about you.”

This is what happens when the least are treated as less-than. This is what it looks like when the Church abandons its namesake and tells him to fend for himself. 

Forgive them, they know not what they do.

 

 

 

507 thoughts on “The Christians Who Defunded Jesus

      • You are so full of hot air and anger!! Why call groups of people names? Christians may be faulty, like everyone else, but many Individuals do follow Jesus, give to the hundreds of thousands of needy around the world, and do care for their fellow man!

        • Cat, no, he is not full of hot air and anger. He is not calling all Christians anything. Only those who have turned their backs on Jesus by embracing the evil policies of the GOP. It is not Joseph Gillis who say such people work for Satan, but Jesus. Please read Matthew 25.

          One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

          • Gloriamarie– the GOP is not evil and the Democrats do not embody good. GOP policies have merit as the opposition point of view to liberal ideology–

            it is Tump’s policies that are harmful.

            Trump is an outsider. He latched on to the GOP party instead of running as an independent. It was a good strategy because it put GOP voters in a difficult spot. It is well known that many of them did not embrace Trump.

            • Kathy A. I have always felt that there is no high road here. Neither side has all the answers. I firmly believe that when the number of voices are close to equal more can be done for the American people.

              Each side has its extremist views. Years ago it was an asset for congress to work with those across the aisle to get things done. Now each side has drawn a line. That line has made each side smaller. I like it better when each side keeps the other side in reasonable check.

              Nowadays most states are run by Republicans with help from gerrymandering and “voter rights” laws. The pendulum has swung far to the right. Some states are failing and in massive debt. I do not see where a one size fits all approach has worked.

              Just my opinion.

              • Okay , thanks for that. I agree each side needs to balance each other. But I don’t think that Trump represents the traditional GOP platform and the people are caught in between their party allegiance and difficult choices.

                I mean, we know some moderate republicans must have voted for Obama in order for him to have had such high numbers in his elections. So it’s not indisputable that the GOP is the enemy and will never vote for a Democrat.

                Politically speaking the democratic party needs to refresh and rebuild their ranks. I hope the they can accomplish that though all the awareness happening right now.

                Speaking as a christians I wonder if we have to be careful to not to beat each other up over this. Christians come from many different perspectives.

                  • I agree with you and I think Democrats and Repulicans need each other for balance.

                    The problem I have and so of course think it is a valid point is that every time Trump tells his lies which are weekly a Republican will excuse or try to explain it away. I see things mostly in black and white. I admittedly have trouble with shades of grey.

                    We know politicians lie.
                    But if you consistently excuse someone who tells outrageous lies, to me you become an accomplice to that lie.

                    Many voted for Trump because he “tells it like it is”. Now we are told we shouldn’t take him literally. Those are 2 opposite things. That excuse is illogical.

                    To lie is to break a Commandment.
                    No one made Trump run. Yet he has been allowed to crap on every norm so it makes some Republicans look like power is what rules. Is power more important than integrity?

                    • I agree completely. It’s the blatant lies that got to me originally and how Trump would contradict himself in a sentence. Nad when reporters confronted him he didn’t bat an eye. It goes on and on … especially Kelly Ann Conway she looks so foolish!!

                      I get what you are saying. It’s a deception, eh?

                    • Joanne and Gloriamarie just to explain more.. the thing is… I have a heart for fundamentalists and conservatives — I went to a fundamentalist church for 8 years. When I left I wasn’t angry or offended I thought I had failed them and failed God. Years after I left I came to understand how fearful of the world I was and how damaged my perspective was by being in that church. The condemnation was the worse part.

                      I was a young married woman raising a child. I wasn’t doing much except reading my bible and being a Proverbs 31 wife– so when I left it was because my marriage failed and I had to come out as a lesbian because I could’t hide myself anymore.

                      It took 19 years to come out of that fear and believe that God loved me unconditionally. So, I can see the other side and the cognitive dissonance associated with those beliefs.

                      Many are trapped in their beliefs– they are not hateful rather they are victims of bondage to fear and authority. So sometimes the way JP writes or the way progressives speak about conservatives causes me to feel upset not because I am offended or reject his message but because I am hurting for the people receiving the message who are trapped in that life– because I was there once. So do we care about them as well? The ones who are trapped in their beliefs? and how can they receive the good things JP is trying to say if they don’t feel loved either? … that’s my concern.

                    • I applaud you. That took courage. I know you addressed this to Joanne & Gloriamarie, but I would like to say, I really don’t believe that most of us don’t care but sometimes that care has to be at a distance. The fundamentalists have done a lot of damage to a lot of people. I believe we should care but we should not let them hinder us in our work for the poor, the lonely, the disenfranchised. My husband and I spent 40 yrs in the ministry and I know that sometimes if you let them, they will try to get you to take your eye off the ball. So love them, by all means, pray for them, of course but there are times when you do it at a distance. I care deeply but I am also angry that because of a false message an enormous amount of people will be hurt. That is just not acceptable. Anyway just my two cents for what it’s worth. Peace…………..

                    • Thanks for listening Kathleen.

                      This is the very reason why Jesus urges us to love our enemies.

                      If you could understand how relieved my family was when I came out of that church,

                      because they love me

                      Then think of how much God wants those people to come out. And the place he is calling them out to is a place of rest and welcome.

                      Ignore the leaders of the hate groups and recognize their prisoners who need to escape and find a soft place to land.

                      Trust me they are damaged by indoctrination.

                    • I know they are damaged, seen it first hand for most of my life. I will continue to pray for them and be there but I can’t worship with them anymore because they insist that there is something wrong with me, not that perhaps they have things they need to change. Lord, I know I am not perfect, but they don’t know or acknowledge the same about themselves. Very frustrating. We spent all our lives in the church and I don’t recognize it anymore. I do understand where you are coming from. Peace and Love.

                    • Kathleen B, I know what you mean. I have intense anxiety whenever I go to a conservative church. But I always manage to find at least one or two people like me.

                      Believe it or not I rescued a “fundie ” once ! Ha! It’s true. It is too long a story to record here but afterwards she admitted she was having so many troubling thoughts about the sermons that increasingly became hateful towards LGBT people. When I came along she had the courage to leave– thats what I am talking about.

              • Really? The GOP & the Dems need each other for checks and balances?

                What exactly have the Dems done that the GOP need to “balance” for the good of the country?

                • Liberal thinkers and conservative thinkers balance each other — I am talking about ideology.

                  How that plays out in the political forum is driven by the character of the people leading the parties.

                  You would be surprised to know the origins of the Democratic Party and why the donkey is it’s symbol.

                  • After watching this history lesson by VOX on the Democratize Party I can see why Trump has a picture of Andrew Jackson in the oval office– and I can see better what Trump is doing to America.

                    In the end Trump will be able to say he was a Democrat all along.

                    All I am saying is that politics is a snakey thing that people get involved in. It’s not about party lines but the content of your character.

                  • Dear Kathy A.:

                    They don’t balance.

                    In terms of the policies they support, so called conservative ideologues and their social progressive counterparts differ in style rather than substance.

                    Blessings!

                    • Blessings to you as well gdd.

                      Maybe a better way to look at is oil and water ? Both are good and needed but don’t mix well do they ?

                    • Dear Kathy A.:

                      From my perspective, both are evil, neither is needed, and each is a reflection of the other.

                      I’m something of a misfit anywhere because I am a Christian who is also a radical socialist. By that, I mean that I am also a Marxist who has a strong Trotskist streak.

                      Blessings!

                    • I adore you gdd ! I was a big fan of Karl Marx in my first year university. You are a bright spot on this blog. 🙂

                  • Kathy A. , Thank you so much for your words. I love the balanced view.

                    I am so sorry for the heartaches you have suffered.

                • connie cunningham, not exactly certain what you ar saying here and I don’t wish to speak to something when I don’t understand. Would you please elaborate? Thanks

            • If you truly believe that these are not the GOP policies that Trump is bandying about I think you must be drinking the Kool aid. They have been trying for years to get these policies thru congress. They are on record about getting rid of these programs. Guess what, unless you are one of the lucky ones who don’t need your SS or Medicare or being protected from the conmen of Wall Street you will be hurt along with everyone else you love. Not that awful homeless person, yes he will be hurt but common ordinary people you love who want to buy a home, maybe have a preexisting condition, I could go on and on, those are the people that the GOP are going to hurt. It’s a shame that these policies won’t hurt just the people who voted for the lot of them, because the problem is bigger than the clown in the white house.

              • Thank you, Kathleen B. If Kathy A still fails to believe that the GOP has embraced evil, I refer her to all the many articles I’ve posted in Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff. I refer her to the Republican Party National Platform. I refer her to the occupant’s proposed budget. All of those are enough to convince anyone that the GOP has embraced evil.

                Which is not to say that the Democratic Party is good. I don’t believe I’ve ever said that. I believe what I am on record as saying is that the Democratic Party is the party that is more concerned to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, and provide for needs. Are they doing it perfectly? No, of course not, but at least they are on the side of good.

                • I agree with you. Like you, I haven’t agreed with everything the Dems do but at least I don’t disagree with everything they do. They are not about putting people on ice floes and forgetting them. The Rep would rather the sick, the poor and the elderly just disappear because not one, and I mean not one program they have put up helps any of those people. Peace,

                    • Gloriamarie the issue I have is not the truth of what you are saying but the idea of what the GOP is.

                      Not every person who voted for Trump is sold to him and not everyone who fell for his con are card carrying Republicans. Not everyone is sold out to Trump.

                      I think we have to be open to those who change their minds or some to their senses

                      Otherwise I think you are doing good work and I regret that a personal issue got in the way.

            • I’m going to have to respectfully disagree about the GOP. They aren’t pushing trumps policies. He is using using his executive orders. The GOP is pushing their own policies. Repealing the ACA, defining PP, medicare, medicaid… allowing coal to pollute our streams, they hate the EPA. They have the opportunity to do all the harm they want. And let’s face it. Their policies hurt people. I Iget I get a Igetastrong feeling that they JUST DON’T CARE about people. They’re They’re willing They’re willing to They’re willing to let Theyre willing to let people die. I think that’s pretty evil. I mean, it is. And it’s hurtful. How can they be working for us if they don’t even care if we die? They make our laws. They control us. It’s It’s a dangerous situation we are in.

              • I agree and I would add they have been telegraphing this for a long time so I think it is disingenuous when people say “we didn’t know this was going to happen”. If they said and tried acting on this before the election why the heck didn’t people pay attention and listen to them. They are doing more than pollute streams they are talking about allowing car manufacturers to go back to the old pollution vehicles. Everyday there is something new they are dismantling.

              • Exactly, Melissa Rowell. The policies of the GOP are evil. Trump’s executive orders are evil. To have voted for the GOP and Trump is to have voted for evil.

                To share their values is to share in evil.

                There is no middle ground here and I think we have to resist evil because Jesus and the entire Bible teach us to do that.

                Everything I was taught in RC private school, the catechism, getting my BA in Biblical and Theological Studies, getting my MA in Theological Studies, the great Christian writers from the Didache to the present all teach me that one thing the Bible does is teach us to discern good from evil, to do good and reject evil.

                When I see a party platform that is the antithesis of the Hebrew Scriptures, the antithesis of the Beatitudes and all of the rest of the NT, when I see a man who is the antithesis of all that is good, what other reaction can I have but to assert there is evil afoot.

                So I fight it. I will resist those who want to compromise and say “oh evil isn’t all that bad.”

                One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

              • Very true Melissa, These are their policies and they will use Trump to push them through until he becomes too dangerous for their own survival. Then after he is gone they will blame Trump for all of the cuts….but never forget Paul Ryan has been dreaming of doing this for years.

              • Guarantee Progressives didn’t vote for Trump – We knew all those (Snake oil Salesmen/Women) ‘Preachers’ who endorsed Trump for all of their LARGE respective congregations of followers. Were doing a terrible disservice to Idea Christianity ( The good part, as opposed to the many versus of insanity) And a Worst disservice to America who does not follow that Archaic thinking. Christians helped to Elect that Idiot – if the Shoe fits Wear it!

            • This is not just Trump. It is Ryan, Huizenga, Steve King, etc. I voted Republican starting in 1968. I worked on campaigns at all levels, was a delegate to city, county and state conventions, and helped form platforms. The more “Christian ” it claimed, the less it became. As one who believes, I had to change my votes. Pay closer attention. There are 100 bible passages social justice.

            • That was once true, Conservative/Liberal balanced once each other BUT it is no longer true. The day, the hour the moment in 1979 when Christian and Jewish leaders convened to prioritize their goals by deciding to make a political party GOD’S Party they opened the Church doors and that led to this. It was an opportunity for Satan to infiltrate both Church and State and He’s sure done a bang up job. What Jesus Christ did on HIS cross for OUR need became firmly attached to politics and politics is now firmly attached to corporations, meaning BIG MONEY and no Church can serve GOD and money though they do try! The point isn’t that Democrats are good and Republicans are Evil though according to many Churches the reverse is true. Churches have preached Conservativism as GODLY and Liberalism as evil, neither is true BUT Conservatives by claiming that you can’t really be a Christian unless you’re a Conservative Republican have allowed evil to flourish because it calls itself conservative. A Christian lady once told me that Baptist’s weren’t Conservative enough for her liking. So to a number of Church goers if you don’t vote Conservative Republican you can’t be a Christian. Unfortunately, the name of Conservative allows Satan lots of room to do evil. Some ladies I know told me that Trump was a GODLY man though his actions seem to deny his Christianity. But that’s okay because the Conservative Church say’s he is CONSERVATIVE and Christian, I’m not certain which they consider the more important I doubt that they know either.

              • What I find ludicrous about any comments of conservatives/liberals balancing each other is the way Reagan stacked SCOTUS, the fact that all 3 branches of the federal government are in the hands of the GOP. Where is the balance there?

                Liberals are fighting to allow the very people survive that the GOP want to kill off.

              • To quote kathy: GOP policies have merit as the opposition point of view to liberal ideology– it is Tump’s policies that are harmful.

                Trump’s policies are the GOP’s policies. Trump is pretty much doing, policy wise, what the GOP has been dreaming of for decades. Sorry, you don’t get to separate the two. Because Trump and the GOP are now one and the same.

                So would you like to try again?

                And depriving 24 million people of their health care has merit? Privatizing medicare and social security and screwing over senior citizens has merit? Cutting people off food stamps when they can’t afford food or afford to take the hit has merit? Letting the top few swallow all the wealth has merit? Defunding the CDC, NIH and the EPA has merit? Deregulating wall street has merit? Getting rid of workplace safety and environmental protection laws has merit?

                Really? Exactly how does any of that have merit?

            • Kathy A, are all republicans/conservative Christians evil? No.

              So lets focus this on the GOP’s leaders.

              Do they stand for these things:
              1: Powerful and continuing nationalism
              2: disdain for human rights
              3: Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
              4: Supremacy of the military
              5: Rampant sexism
              6: Controlled mass media
              7: Obsession with national security
              8: Religion and government are intertwined
              9: Corporate power is protected
              10: Labor power is suppressed
              11: Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
              12: Obsession with crime and punishment
              13: Rampant cronyism and corruption

            • Thank you, Robbin E. I too abhor that it needs explanation.

              One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

              https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

          • The ‘evil policies of the GOP’ as opposed to what? The Democratic policies that keep people in poverty and has fostered an attitude of entitlement to those same people? There is a place for public assistance but it should be used as a tool to help people get back on their feet not stay on it indefinitely.

            • Yup. Evil policies of the GOP which increase poverty and make the rich richer.

              By the way, here’s a list of accomplishments by liberals, each of which was opposed by the GOP

              The GI Bill
              Endangered Species Act
              Environmental Laws
              The Space Program
              The Peace Corps
              Americorps
              The Civil Rights Movement
              Earned Income Tax Credit
              Family & Medical Leave Act
              Consumer Product Safety Commission
              Americans With Disabilities Act
              Freedom of Information Act
              Women’s right to control their reproductive future
              Allowing citizens to view their own credit records
              The Internet
              Balancing the federal budget
              The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
              Lobbying Disclosure Act
              “Motor-Voter” Act
              The Voting Rights Act
              Unemployment Insurance
              Medicare/Medicaid
              Food Stamps/WIC
              Social Security
              Peace between Israel and Egypt
              Peace between Israel and Jordan
              The Department of Education
              The Department of Energy
              The Department of Transportation
              The Department of Housing and Urban Development
              Labor Laws
              The Marshall Plan
              Winning World War II
              Food Safety Laws
              Workplace Safety Laws
              The Tennessee Valley Project
              The Civilian Conservation Corps
              The Securites and Exchange Commission
              Women’s Right to Vote
              Universal Public Education
              National Weather Service
              Product Labeling Laws
              Truth in Advertising Laws
              Morrill Land Grant Act
              Rural Electrification
              Public Universities
              Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
              Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
              Public Broadcasting
              Supporting the establishment of Israel
              The United Nations
              NATO

              Although now, the GOP fawns over Israel, perhaps because they fancy Armageddon soon rather than later. Only a person out of touch with reality would want WW3

              One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

              https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

            • Theresa the policies that are keeping people in poverty are the Republican policies that let the top few swallow all the wealth.

              There wouldn’t be such a need for all that government assistance that you hate if your party would quit letting the top few swallow everything.

              And as for “entitlement” there is no bigger group of self entitled SOB’s than the top few and the GOP that serves them.

              Oh btw, child, the largest group of poor people on welfare are 1: white 2: southern 3: conservative 4: republicans.

              Curious how you seem to think your party can lift people out of poverty when Republican state’s are the poorest states in the country swallowing the most federal spending in welfare.

              We in the blue states, child, pay for your party’s constant getting down on your knees and giving fellatio to the top few.

          • This was one of the most dishonest, misleading, partisan hack articles I’ve ever read. I’d say he should be ashamed to call himself a journalist, but he’s a liberal do he’s proud of this work, no matter how far off he is, this is the defination of fake news

            • No, Jim, if you want to find fake news then one need look no further than pretty much everything on faux news and everything on breitbart and infowars.

              You just don’t like what John wrote because it shines a mirror up to the failures of your political side to be what they claim they are. But then what do you expect when the GOP’s leader is an antichrist.

        • It’s true that not all Evangelical Christians turn away from the poor. Whole congregations and groups do some great work. Many do minimal work, and much more than minimal, or even great work is needed, even with the government involved in the mix. The budget which is being proposed, along with the ousting of Obamacare, will be putting many of the middle class (many of the ones doing Christ’s work) out on the street. I expect it will be worse than the crashed economy Obama was handed.

          • Eli Hess, “It’s true that not all Evangelical Christians turn away from the poor. Whole congregations and groups do some great work. ”

            Yup. And they didn’t vote GOP either because they saw that the GOP is not in favor of working with the poor etc.

            “I expect it will be worse than the crashed economy Obama was handed.”

            Horrific days ahead.

        • Yeah, no. He is full of frustration because you and people like you are more sensitive to being called a name, than they are to the suffering of the poor. You show yourself as one who participates in religion to make yourself look good to man.

          • Cat, if you help a poor person with charity after voting for a party that hurts the poor to pay for tax cuts to the rich…does your charity actually accomplish something?

            • Not a very smart question even if the premise is true (which it isn’t).

              Which is greater?

              X – A
              or
              X – A + B

        • @ Cat: But not every “Christian” is like that. Christians (without the quotation marks) are not. I left the church because of the “Christians” in it. I didn’t because of the Christians. John has a point and is not so full of hot air and anger, like you say.

          I would rather listen to John than my former pastor, who called me an adulterer when I was not. Now, my then pastor was full of hot air and anger. As a result, I will worship in a church again.

        • There is virtually no evidence of Trump Christians “caring for their fellow man”. Instead they reject the central tenets of their faith. Rather than welcoming the stranger, they revile him. Instead of loving thy neighbour they want to erect a wall to keep him out. Goaded by a vengeful president their most pleasurable moments at his rallies are screaming “lock her up”, or turning on the press or a lone protestor and bullying them. That these same Trump Christians can vote for a man who mocks the disabled and demeans women is a reflection on how far they have strayed from their faith.

          • Obama build a wall around his mansion.

            Don’t you think that’s a good idea?

            The idea of a wall is to stop ILLEGAL immigration. Is that a bad thing?

          • Amen, Deb, and the way they write here over two hundred people who are aghast at the horros they see in the news and the horrors the conservative write here have joined my group.

            One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

        • If the shoe fits WEAR IT. If it doesn’t apply zip it because you do know by the wide reach of Religion, there shouldn’t be a hungry child in the world anywhere… (See unneeded Mega-Churches , All the Gold, Brass, Silver in Churches worldwide, Hell The Gold in the Vatican alone! Stop your fragile nonsense)

        • And daily- make personal sacrifices for years. It’s unfair to blame all as some C.R sadly do not see the connections in government, but rather project their own dedication as the norm. Do not shame them, they know you do not see their their hard work and will dismiss warnings. Instead, educate them on the cause and effect of changing laws.

        • You are full of BS. If you are a altruistic donating Christian who genuinely loves God Our Father and Jesus you wouldn’t need to comment in anger. God is Love. It is not being displayed, the moral right have bankrupted themselves attaching themselves to an administration whose foundation is bigotedness.

        • Bull..born again christians,,a nd I use that term loosly, r Satan driven..They couldn’t be christians and vote for such a unchristian president..

          • Exactly… Phonies! The lot of them worldwide. 1st for believing in such outdated man made nonsense! 2nd for not peacefully coexisting yet in the world year 2017 and counting.

        • Feeding the poor is a good thing, and certainly follows the letter of the law. But if you really want to please God, follow the spirit of the law (the bedrock principle).

          In this case, that might be to also use the power of political elections to reduce inequality, instead of supporting political ideologies that create poverty.

          (P.S. There’s no point in arguing for “small government” when over 50% of tax dollars go to the Department of Defense. Jesus is the Prince of Peace.)

        • Thank you! I read crap like this “article” with duct tape wrapped around my head to prevent it from exploding. Really makes me wonder what color the sky is in his world?
          .

          • then, Dale and the person you were replying to, you on that side of Christianity should quit making poor people poorer before you give to charity.

            That way your charity might actually accomplish something good. Whereas you conservatives kick the poor in the balls so you can give the rich tax cuts then you give the poor charity all you’re doing is assuaging your guilty conscience for kicking the poor in the balls so you can give fellatio to the rich.

        • Interesting, isn’t it, that year after year comparisons of charitable giving put liberals and progressives and democrats and other social Marxists very low on the scale of giving. For them it is all about “other people’s money”!

          • oh its oh so cute, allen, that you assume that the only people who give to charity are right wing evangelical Christians.

            But are you guys really giving charity if you make the poor suffer more first before you do so?

            Or are you simply assuaging your guilty conscience for kicking them in the balls in the first place and making them poorer via your political ideaology.

            Because “caring for your fellow man” would also require that your political beliefs match. As opposed to being in direct opposition to.

        • Cat, we’re not talking about Christians who actually DO care for others and do good things. We’re calling out the hypocrites to the carpet.

      • When you are catorgizeing Christians by their political affiliation you are dividing the body of Christ which is most definitely the work of Satan!

        • well right wing christians sectioned themselves off. And for decades their leaders have spouted the claim that to be a christian you have to be republican

          • Who says that James? I never heard that in my Church and we’re half the Christians in the country.

            I’ll happily vote for a pro-life Democrat and I’m sure those you call “right-wingers” will too.

            Who are they so I can support them?

      • Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? james 4:10

        • oh the irony of a evangelical Christian crying foul at being defamed without “being known.”

          How many years has your side defamed liberals, Democrats, the poor, nonChristians, etc.

    • The same thing is happening in the UK too! I’m quite convinced (and I know I’m not the only one) that this lamentable excuse for a government of ours really DOES want all the poor, the old and the sick just to die off quietly and not cause any inconvenience to the wealthy, who often GOT wealthy on the backs of the poor in the first place! In my 70+ years on this earth, I’ve never known anything like it. Hate abounds on both sides of the pond and it seems a real evil has been unleashed. I fear for my children and grandchildren.

      • I have thought for a long, long time that the powers that be would like us to die already. Kind of like putting the old people on an ice floe in the ocean and saying bye bye.

          • But, Mary, don’t they need to look down their noses at the human beings they think are beneath them? How can they do that once they’ve killed off all of us.

            • Yes, they DO like to sneer at the so-called ‘little people’ don’t they? I suppose they might keep some of us back and perhaps put us in cages like a zoo, so they can walk past and do their odious sneering!

      • I also am 70+ and have never seen this level of hate/evil. I suspect the income inequality has something to do with it. Many don’t feel secure in their own financial well-being and fear the moral demands of those poorer than themselves. Do I give more to help and risk my own well-being? It is the real moral challenge I see as one who is trying to take seriously the demands of Jesus. But we will keep up the demands on our Congress; we will give our time, talents, as well as our wealth to do what we can. We can’t let Evil win.

    • Dear Diz:

      And it is critical that the working class understand what ‘they’ are doing. It is also critical to understand ‘who’ is doing it. To combine both questions in a single statement, I would say this:

      We are witnessing a bipartisan drive to reduce life expectancy.

      We can also add the question of ‘why’ this is happening. The answer is equally clear:

      The aim is to free up resources for a massive increase in military spending, while funneling ever more money into the stock markets and the coffers of the financial aristocracy.

      I would also point out one final matter for consideration:

      This policy continues a decades-long social counterrevolution, pursued regardless of which party controls the White House and Congress.

      That leads to the observation that this process will continue until the international working class unites to throw off the austerity agenda being imposed on nations around the world. In turn, that requires that the working class in each nation assume responsibility for the direction and administration and governance of their respective nations.

      Blessings!

    • Christians are not likely to go out looking for people to feed… and if they did I expect there would be some religious obligations incurred… ala: (Let’s pray good and hard to Jesus for that food now, brethren”… etc. This is why we have a non-secular system of government to protect the vulnerable from religious coercion and enslavement to the church. Please do not invite Christians to pick up the tab. Thanks, but no thanks. Current draconian cuts by the Trump administration ARE NOT an invitation for Christians to come out and do the dirty work, instead. Any Christian church that wants to set up relief agencies… no preaching attached… that’s the only Church that deserves the honor. Yeah… what I thought.

    • For many struggling Christians, alms giving and acts of charity become very difficult when you have to choose between dollars being taken from you at gunpoint via taxation to be redistributed to those less fortunate, and true acts of charity for the less fortunate. Taxation and redistribution are not the same as charity. Once the money is gone to the tax man, for many there is little or none left for alms giving. So pointing an accusing finger at dreaded churchgoers for not being charitable enough, while at the same time saying we aren’t paying enough taxes for social programs and redistribution rings quite hollow. Excessive taxation does not allow individuals to build wealth and in turn be more charitable. And the buying power of a charitable dollar is much greater if the the dollar stays close to home and is not sifted through a federal government bureaucracy or pass through program. The statement that Trump, Republicans, or churchgoers want the less fortunate to starve or die in the streets is rank hyperbole. The more accurate statement is, they want to provide more charity, by reducing taxation and redistribution. It is a difference in thinking about how we help the less fortunate, not whether we help the less fortunate.

      • “For many struggling Christians, alms giving and acts of charity become very difficult when you have to choose between dollars being taken from you at gunpoint via taxation ”

        Liar. Gunpoint? Liar. Joe ACP, you are a liar.

        Truth is spoken here:

        One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

        • You don’t even know me and call me a liar? I think that is all I need to know about you. If I as a Christian refuse to pay my taxes, yes a chain of events occur which end up with me in jail (i.e. at gunpoint). My statement is valid. I am happy to leave this discussion now, as all progressive writing is the same, and ends up in the trashbin of history. Remember what the man said, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried.”

          • This is what Jesus says about taxes.

            “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you speak and teach what is right and are not influenced by what others think. You teach the way of God truthfully. Now tell us–is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?” He (Jesus) saw through their trickery and said, “Show me a Roman coin. Whose picture and title are stamped on it?” “Caesar’s,” they replied. “Well then,” he said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.” – Luke 20:21-25

            • Well quoted. Charity is an act of God, not Caesar. Caesar is a greedy hoarder of the people’s wealth at the threat of the edge of the sword. God works through Christians to provide charity. And charity is freely given.

              • Pdiddle53, that is not the point. The point is that we are obligated to willingly pay our taxes to our government as Christians, by the threat of the government or not. Also I believe we are under a “Social Contract”, an agreement for mutual benefit between an individual or group and the government or community as a whole. Government social programs are part of this. We pay for public schools because we need an educated population, we pay for interstates to allow minimally hindered transport of goods and people for the betterment of our country, for defense to defend our nation and our interests, and social programs to support the needy when charity didn’t cut it.

          • I don’t have to know you to call you a liar when I see you expressing a blatant lie. No one in the USA is paying taxes at gunpoint. It is a lie to say that they are.

            So don’t tell lies and you won’t be called a liar. It’s just that simple, Joe ACP.

          • Well Pdiddle, you right wingers don’t try the “Christian ideal.”

            You guys have twisted Jesus Christ into justification for greed, hate, fear, ignorance and letting those around you suffer and die all because you have stopped worshipping Jesus and now worship your political philosophy which has nothing to do with actual Christianity.

      • well, Pdiddle, we’re not talking about “struggling Christians” here and their taxes. In fact what you call “dollars being taken from you at gunpoint” would go to, among others, benefit those struggling Christians.

        We’re talking about the top few percent who have been swallowing all the income growth and all the wealth for decades.

        Since you can not with any honesty say that there will ever be enough charity to cover all the needs if we simply got the government out of the way..your position is BS.

        And since the right wingers like Ash there have no problem with taking my taxpayer money at gunpoint and using it for such things as their wars and their death penalty and giving more and more fellatio the top few your objection is even more BS.

        To quote: Excessive taxation does not allow individuals to build wealth and in turn be more charitable.

        Again..we are talking about taxation on the wealthy, child. Not “struggling Christians.”

        To quote: And the buying power of a charitable dollar is much greater if the the dollar stays close to home and is not sifted through a federal government bureaucracy or pass through program.

        really? Got proof of that? Because, for example, every one dollar in taxes spent on food stamps produces more than $2 in economic benefit.

        Oh btw, child, there’s quite a lot of bureaucracy and pass throughs in charity. In fact quite a lot of “charities” are nothing more than get rich schemes for those running the charities. They spend very little on actual charity.

        To quote: The statement that Trump, Republicans, or churchgoers want the less fortunate to starve or die in the streets is rank hyperbole.

        No, it’s not. Why? I’ll get to that in response to this next quote of yours: The more accurate statement is, they want to provide more charity, by reducing taxation and redistribution

        Because there has been no increase in charity to make up the diference in taxes cut. Certainly not enough to actually make up the full difference.

        Cutting taxes on the rich, child, does not lead to more charity and helping those less advantaged. If it did we wouldn’t be in the situation where all the wealth has gone to those at the top and the rest of us are getting further behind.

        As for redistribution..all those tax cuts on the rich do is redistribute the money into the hands of the already rich.

        You want to live in a fantasy world that says charity can solve it all. Sorry, that is not the real world. So would you like to deal with the real world or is that too much to expect?

        All Trump and the GOP are doing is harming people by cutting spending. That is all they are doing. Because no matter what delusion you spout, child, there will not magically be enough charity to pick up the slack.

        So like I asked..do you want to deal with reality or do you want to continue living with your delusion?

        ANd the fact is, child, the poor and the middle class were better off economically before your sides supply side BS.

        • Oh you also seem to be under the delusion, Piddle, that by Trump and the GOP cutting spending on those programs that we average Americans will magically be getting that money back.

          No, we won’t. Because Trump and the GOP are going to spend that money on that BS wall, a military that we already spend more on than the next 30 countries combined, more fellatio to the top few and oh yeah..Trump’s golf trips every single weekend.

          It’s time you wake the **** up, Pdiddle.

    • Exactly. There’s two things

      1) There’s this passive-aggressive Aktion T-4 (program Hitler and his minions created to exterminate the sick and disabled) going on. They want us (disabled and sick) gone so they don’t have to look at us.

      2) This is a bullying tactic of “Convert to our sick, twisted version of fundie Christianity or you can simply rot.

    • Please. It’s well established that conservative christians donate far, far more time and money to charity than does the left. You are confusing forced taxation and redistribution with charity. They are not the same thing.

      • It’s also well established, Jimmy, that there is never enough charity to cover all the needs. It’s also well established that when there is an economic downturn..when the need for charity is the highest..the amount of charity goes down because the people who give to charity are also hurt economically.

        So, child, your “charity” answer doesn’t work if it doesn’t actually solve the entire problem.

        And you claiming that you conservatives are more charitable is laughable since you conservatives are the ones ****ing the poor up the *** in the first place with your policies. If you take, for example, a poor person’s health care away from them and then in an act of charity give them $50 have you really helped them? Or are you merely assuaging your own guilty conscience?

        Do you think, for example, a church is going to be able to afford to cover someone’s chemo when said chemo treatment cost, on average, $30 grand a month? How many churches do you think can afford that?

        As for your bitching about “redistribution” will since you conservatives have spent the last 40 or so years redistributing all the wealth and income of this country into the hands of the top few that means you really don’t get to bitch when the rest of us redistributes it back.

    • I agree with everything that was said. Anyone can come across a situation, where they could be one paycheck away from being on the street. Loss of jobs, no raise, downsizing departments, can all lead to difficulties. Medical care, food, transportation are getting harder to come by for the average working person. People need a hand up, not a hand out. Food, clothing, shelter, schooling and a chance to make it for themselves. I am a divorced, single mom, who lost her home in the recession, my mortgage was under water. My father helped me when I had no clothes, no food and my utilities were going to be shut off. I am grateful for what I have everyday. People should help however they can, you never know when this could happen to you. Humility is a great equalizer. 🙂

  1. What you miss, John, is that right-wingers hate the Christ’s actual teachings; all they want from Him is a Get Out of Hell Free Card and a totem to sanctify their pre-existing bigotries. I think the phrase is “wolves in sheep’s clothing.”

    • Well then, if you’re right about that, then they really aren’t going to get that card are they? They just think they are. And you’ll be able to smirk and giggle as they are cast into the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. I bet you’re looking forward to that!

      • Funny that I didn’t say anything about smirking and giggling, skippy. I would much rather that they got their heads out of their collective tochises and actually follow the teachings and not just worship the totem.

    • Dear Joseph Gillis:

      You wrote:

      ‘…a totem to sanctify their pre-existing bigotries.’

      Internet posts rarely proffer poetic eloquence.

      Thank-you for being the exception.

      Blessings!

  2. Thank you, John. I’ve felt this ever since the day, some 20 years ago, when the newly installed minister at my (then) church summarily closed our food pantry. She didn’t discuss the matter with the people who ran it, or even the ad board – she just came into the meeting saying it was a done deal. It “replicated the services of the community food pantry, and so it was unnecessary. Replicated services?? Hardly! Very good friends of mine ran it for years, and these people would come down to the church any time, day or night, to open up and give people emergency assistance, no questions asked. Unlike the community pantry, they let people browse the shelves and choose what THEY wanted/needed. And they didn’t follow the people around while they chose – they trusted them to take only what they needed. Indeed, my friends said that often, people had to be persuaded to take ENOUGH. They knew many of their clients well – and some of those clients were members of the church, which meant that they could get assistance discreetly, without the congregation (several of whom volunteered at the community pantry, to their credit) needing to know their situation. Having been in dire straits after my divorce many years ago, I knew how they felt. No one “likes” to be poor and needing basics. Poverty is not a “lifestyle choice”. The new minister was deaf to all pleas, however, and so our pantry closed. I left the church soon after that, and as you can tell, I still have a lot of residual anger about it.

  3. And I will just add my long-cherished belief that when Judgement Day comes, these sanctimonious so-called “Christians” are going to be in for a rude shock when they discover that they don’t stand nearly as high in the Lord’s estimation as they like to flatter themselves.

  4. I was not raised in any church or religion. The few times I tried to branch out and go to my friends’ churches (with an open mind) I was eventually turned off by the self-absorbed nature of the sermons and the congregants. At no point was I taken out to do “good things” in the community. They seemed to be more interested in making me feel good either about myself or about how well their church knew Jesus and what the Bible really meant, you know, the “truth”. I’ve struggled for years to understand who “Jesus” is, because many times the people who are preaching the most are some of the ugliest (inside/with what they say) people I’ve ever met. They are, more often than not, right-wing conservatives who are angry about their taxes supporting these so-callled lazy human beings. It’s as if they are afraid to be compassionate, because they will have to admit they are lucky in many ways and that their success is not 100% due to how hard they’ve worked. It’s sad.

    • I think the church at large needs more people like you to step into the midst and lead the charge. I think many are willing to help … but also seem overwhelmed/scared to take initiative to lead. But once a plan and charge is in place … once there’s enthusiasm behind an idea … watch it take off like wildfire.

  5. This message has to reach the guilty. My ELCA Bishop, Elizabeth Heaton, wrote a very long response to Congress about all the bad choices from this administration. We also have to find out which individual churches each member attends. Paul Ryan professes to be a good Catholic. What does his Priest think about his Policy? We already know That the Pope does not think his way about helping people.

    • Paul Ryan IS a good Catholic. The Catholic Church does not mandate that government has to be the “be all” and the “end all.” A good economy will lift us all.

      • See, that only works if we actually HAVE a good economy for all of us. Right now, the economy is only good for people like Pious Paul Ryan.

        • You make me wish there were like buttons here, Susan. He thinks Ryan is a good Catholic because abortionabortionabortion. Doesn’t seem to care much once the little smellers are out of the uterus, though.

            • Janosch Pavlovitzen took down the like button because too many readers were clicking “Like” rather than discussing what they think and feel. A little over two years ago, readers requested the “Like Button,” Janosch agreed and accommodated, discussion fell off. Just a little history for you from someone who has been here a while.

          • That’s the usual false narrative. Because someone doesn’t want babies in the womb chopped to pieces, they therefore don’t care about them after they are born. Interesting logic…

            Your logic is that it’s better to chop them to pieces than the risk of them being poor?

              • I also seem to notice you don’t get as exercised about pregnant women and babies that are under US bombs. Not even a peep when the Seals killed an eight-year-old little girl in Yemen, I notice.

                  • Hey! Joe! What do you know? Twenty-seven people have joined my group today looking for respite from the Conservative Right.

                    Thanks again.

                    One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

                    https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

              • Joesph Gillis, the maximum SNAP benefit is $1.50 per meal per person in the household.

                A single person with an income barely over $1000 a month gets $20 a month as a SNAP benefit.

                In what universe are any of these people actually fed by SNAP?

                • A single person earning $1,000 per month, paying a rent of $700 and paying for heat separately would get more than $150 in SNAP benefits per month.

                  • well considering, Anon, that the three groups that get the most “free stuff” from the government are the rich, the corporations and poor white conservatives in red states…

                    • You didn’t even address the issue. Snap benefits are not $20 as claimed by Gloriamarie in hypothetical, but are more like $150. She either is ignorant or is purposely misleading everyone.

                    • Have you forgotten about the tax breaks many of us others get? Mortgage interest deductions, education credits and deductions, Employer tax breaks for offering health insurance to their employees, tax-breaks for premiums (paying pre-tax), medical expense deductions, 401K tax deferred savings, Social Security, Medicare, and so on. Who in America doesn’t get any tax break, subsidy, promise of or indirect benefits from federal tax cuts and subsides? I suspect very few.

                    • Ahh, but what you missed is that if we are getting something, which we all do, it is earned, they owe us, anyone else who isn’t part of our particular group, they are on the dole. By the way I don’t believe that but that is the argument I get when I bring up your argument. Peace, Love and Resist.

                    • I know that argument too well. It is essentially saying “these are earned by me, but not by thee” argument. The only way I can understand the “tax as theft” argument is either they don’t think the government is legitimate, the government is unconstitutional, or that there is no “social contract”, ignoring the fact that they benefit from the existing “social contract” ad government. You and I, thankfully, reject these arguments and a vast majority of people reject these arguments as well. Unfortunately we see more and more people being suckered into the “tax as theft” argument because we no longer teach civic values, as distinct from religious values, in our public schools anymore.

                    • Which brings me to one of my pet peeves, education. I have come to the conclusion that the dumbing down of our society is no fluke, it is intentional, that is the only way you can get people to believe in “alternative facts”. Facts is facts is facts, but talk to some people and you get yes but………………. Crazy making. Peace.

                    • snap benefits aren’t a set amount. It depends on the individuals income. some may be as high as 150 but others may get as low as 15. it can change from month to month as income changes.

      • Thanks to “good” Catholics like Paul Ryan and yourself, 33 people were moved to persist to resist by asking to join Glorimarie’s Progressive Stuff in the past two days. How many more will be inspired to join by you and the rest of the conservative here who have the unmitigated gall to defend evil?

        As for “a good economy”… where do you think that will come from? What was the result of Republican economic policies in 1928? What was the result of those identical policies when they were introduced as Reaganomics? What was the result of trickle-down-economics in both Bush administrations?

        All of them gave the USA and the world a disastrous economy and that is exactly what we are heading for now.

        The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. By this definition, Republicans have been insane for decades.

        Learn from history since many of you appear to be too young to have lived through the depression of the Bush 2 years.

      • There will be no good economy when 99% of the population has zero discretionary spending money. A “good economy” to Paul Ryan and his preferred group is one where the rich get richer and the poor…should just die. At some point, that will have to fail. Who exactly does all of the work, makes the parts, keeps the service industry going, cleans the houses and mow the lawns? The poor, who are now going to die. There will be no one to cook the oligarchs their 7 course dinners, no one to make their gold-plated toilets, their silver cars, their fur coats and designer clothes. (Every product they use now has a better than 75% chance of saying “Made in China”, thanks to their outsourcing jobs that Americans used to have. Their profits are higher, they’ve got more money and it doesn’t matter to them that they have thrown Americans into poverty and Chinese into slavery.)
        You say, “Paul Ryan is a good Catholic…doesn’t say the government has to “be all”…”. Okay, but if the Church doesn’t expect the government to help the poor, just exactly WHO do they think should do it? Let’s be real: some churches have programs to assist the poor in a variety of ways, particularly food pantries. But far, far too many of them gather money for missions/programs that help others who are not in this country. It is good to help people, don’t get me wrong; just maybe you should start with the people around you before sending the much needed LOCAL assistance overseas.
        We cannot save all of the poor, I understand that. “There will be poor always”, says Jesus. To me, that’s not a condemnation of the poor, that there’s no getting them lifted up out of poverty. That is a condemnation of the RICH, who will live their lives in a way that will cause the poor to exist, with no way out of poverty specifically BECAUSE of the rich and their intent to have all the money.
        In an interview, David Koch (Koch Brothers, Google it) was asked about a business issue; he replied that he (and his brother Charles) just wanted their share of the money. So then the question was, “How much is your share?” and his reply? ALL OF IT. True story, an excellent example of what is going on in the economy and the upper financial strata of our country.
        Rich people do NOT push the economy to be successful or failing; that falls on the middle class, which is rapidly dying as its members lose homes and jobs and are crushed by foreclosures and unpaid credit card debt. The middle class is shrinking, so there are less and less people with any discretionary income. The rich have their own “economy” in expensive cars, mansions, designer clothes. They do not shop where the Average Joe or Jane do, so they do not add money into the economy.
        As my husband says, “Capitalism is eating its own tail now”, with the predictable and inevitable disasters that will cause when it has consumed enough of itself to die.
        The Church and other churches should have been caring for the poor, the hungry, etc (the least of these) for the past 2000 years, as John points out. If they had been doing their Jesus-directed work, perhaps the government would not have needed to step in and even if they did, the cost would not, should not, have been as high as it is. Incidentally, the cost is large, but when compared to other parts of the government’s spending, a very small fraction. The military budget (which 45 wants to INCREASE) is more than half of all discretionary spending, leaving about 45% to be split among all of the other programs that are paid out of the discretionary budget. (That’s the money left out of the entire budget after the US’s bills have been paid.)
        If those who cry “Lord, lord” had really been doing the things they were told to, this decrease in the government’s budget allowance for assistance would not put so many people into danger–the very real danger of dying in addition to the danger of homelessness, starvation, and inability to gain employment. (Once you’re homeless, you cannot vote, drive, or get a job…because you have no address.)
        If those who “love Jesus” had been showing His love, the widow and her child would be taken care of; the man on the road who was robbed would be taken care of; the lepers, the tax collectors, the “wretched refuse of … teeming shores” would have been taken care of.
        Somewhere, there are churches who do what they can, but I’m not seeing this as a normal part of EVERY church’s ongoing mission. And I especially do not see these tasks being done by any of the “mega” churches (two words that should never go together), while their pastor/s wear designer suits, live in mansions and drive expensive cars–hiding behind “the church owns all of this” as a tax dodge.
        Tax the churches for their offering collections (income) and buildings (assets) and everything else that is a common part of non-religious entities. THEN take that tax from the money that is left over AFTER they have (documented) proof of spending on the least of US, the poor, the naked, the thirsty, the hungry, the ill, those who are in prison, those who are strangers.
        And that tax should go straight into the government’s coffers to specifically pay for the social services which cover the same kind of help.
        When we can see that happening, then we will say Paul Ryan is a “good Catholic”.

        • You’re wasting your time with ACP; all he sees is abortionabortionabortion. We once had a young priest in our parish who told us –in exact words–that abortion was more important than all other issues COMBINED. That, in effect. there WAS no other issue than abortion. There’s no point in talking to such as these about poverty; it literally means nothing to them.

          • Well then ACP would be sorely disappointed with Numbers 5 in the Bible. But if ACP and the other conservatives are fine with the baby dying from lack of food, shelter or health care then they are not prolife. They are pro-forced birth. Or more specifically their interest is in controlling the sex lives of others.

            • No James I am not fine with that.

              Why are you fine with a baby being unjustly killed by an abortion? Is it out of compassion because you think Republicans will starve it to death so it’s better off being dismembered before its first gasp of air? What about the situation where the baby could have been born into a good home? Are you ok with that unjust killing too, or would you oppose it?

              • That really excites you, doesn’t it–talking about dismembered babies and their strangulated non-breaths. You and the other bloodthirsty anti-ABs with your treasured pictures of blood and gore, your lip-licking discussions of “baby parts for SALE!” along with other gory, blood-drenched fantasies.

                If there were no abortions, where would you express all your bloodlust? You have a FETISH for abortion gore.

                • I’ll have to take note of this one because this is a new red herring, and I thought I heard them all. I’ve never seen a pro-abort use this a defense of their injustice.

                  They chop up the babies, and then when we say, “hey it’s not nice to chop up babies,” then WE’RE the ones who are bloodthirsty?

                  It’s an upside down world when those who want to save lives are the villains and those who snuff out those lives are “compassionate.”

                    • And yet, ACP, for all your screeching about abortion you’re fine if that baby..if that life, unborn or born, dies from lack of food, shelter, income, health care. You want the government to lift a finger to stop abortions..or i should say to make abortions illegal but you don’t want government to lift a finger to make sure that everyone has the necessities of life. And if a corporation wants to poison that life or kill that life in the name of profit you’re fine with that. Trump gave approval to a pesticide linked to brain damage in kids and you’re fine with that.

                      So no, ACP, you really don’t care about life. All you want to do is to dictate to women..to treat them as chattel. You are a poseur..a pharisee.

                • Thank you, J Marra, been saying for month’s now that he is in dire need of mental health services due to his pathological and unseemly obsessions with what a woman does with her very own body as if he owns all women’s bodies.

          • Despite this witness of Thomas Merton in Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander

            “In Louisville, at the corner of Fourth and Walnut, in the center of the shopping district, I was suddenly overwhelmed with the realization that I loved all those people, that they were mine and I theirs, that we could not be alien to one another even though we were total strangers. It was like waking from a dream of separateness, of spurious self-isolation in a special world, the world of renunciation and supposed holiness. . . . This sense of liberation from an illusory difference was such a relief and such a joy to me that I almost laughed out loud. . . . I have the immense joy of being man, a member of a race in which God Himself became incarnate. As if the sorrows and stupidities of the human condition could overwhelm me, now I realize what we all are. And if only everybody could realize this! But it cannot be explained. There is no way of telling people that they are all walking around shining like the sun.”

      • Whether or not Paul Ryan is a good Catholic, or more importantly, a good Christian, is open to debate. From what I have seen, his mindset seems to be that the “lesser” are that way due to some moral failing and not worthy of receiving help from the rest of us. Add in his zeal for cutting the poor off from Medicaid and I’d say it’s time for he and his priest to have a little chat about what bible he is reading from

        • For the record, a good Catholic is a good Christian. The terms are interchangeable.

          Paul Ryan has a fiduciary responsibility to our country. He can’t allocate funds that would break the bank. Resources are limited. People have to earn the money that the government takes and redistributes, so it’s good to also take the people who work hard into consideration as well.

          A strong economy will eventually pull us all up to a better level. “A rising tide lifts all boats” –JFK

        • Bob, I have often wished that the Pope had has a Come to Jesus discussion with Ryan as he did with Boehner. Can it be a coincidence that Boehner resigned so soon after that conversation? I doubt it.

          One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

  6. This is a good argument but the real test will be how people/churches respond to those in need once their funding is removed by the secular government– and how we respond to the people in our personal lives. It always comes down to the microcosm of our day to day interactions with each other.

    • Kathy A., good to see you here again.

      I disagree with your real test. The real test would be if those people/churches were gearing up NOW to respond to needs.

      Where are the community food banks that allow people to select the foods most wholesome to them instead of the pre-sorted bags with the cheapest possible stuff?

      Where are the housing developments to provide homes for the homeless? If feeding and caring for people is indeed the sole role of the Church and not the Government, there would be no homeless.

      I could go on and on.

      One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • well what’s going to happen is a whole lot of people are going to suffer and die. Why? Because there is not enough charity to take care of all the needs.

      • Actually, James Kessler, while there is not enough charity, there is enough wealth.

        There is a book, heavy on the economics so I didn’t understand it as I do not have a head for numbers, but there were some plainly written sentences. All it would take to end world hunger is $50 billion.

        There are individuals in the US alone who could choose, were they charitable enough, to end world hunger which is a huge step toward ending world poverty. The Koch brothers have this kind of wealth. Bill Gates has this kind of wealth. Donald Trump has this kind of wealth.

        Instead they choose to increase their own personal wealth and damn the hungry, naked, thirsty, ill, and needy.

        • I would speak up for the Gates Foundation. It is the largest charity in the world and is funded exclusively by the Gates family and Warren Buffett. They are working all over the world and in this country in health, education that I know about. They are pretty low profile. When Trump cut funds for international family planning the Gates Foundation was the first to guarantee it continuation.

    • Kathy, good responses are being done right now by people of all faiths, of no faith, various denominations, by Progressives, Conservatives, and Fundamentalists alike. I see it with my own eyes every day. I see all people in moments where they respond and in moments where they turn away. And only their own hearts know their reasons for doing so. You are correct, funded programs will be cut, need will be greater than ever before and it will take us all to address those “reasons” for our actions. I would hope no “reason” stands between us, particularly, as Christ Followers and our actions. It sort of boils down to, so we see Christ in others… I pray so.

    • That is the point that John is making. The need has always been there and the church has not responded. Jesus said that the poor would always be with us and they have been. The church has been self righteous and done very little to relieving the suffering of the poor and the sick.

      • CreatetheLife, that was also the point I was making in response to Kathy A. The church has had over two thousand years to end the poverty that results in hunger, nakedness, sickness, thirst, all sorts of needs.

        The wealthiest church in the world has some of the most impoverished of the world on their roster. Is the Vatican divesting itself of its wealth to meet the need?

        • In all fairness, the current (Franciscan) pope is doing more than any other to try and change the beurocracy of the church. I would hold him up as an example of a “good Catholic”.

        • Yeah the point I was making is that we have to be careful of setting a condemning tone towards groups of christians or anyone else becaise of what is happening in the politics..

          You are making a formula for judging people. Here tick off this list and you are out or be doing this and you are in.

          Redemption is much more complex and personal than what we observe on the surface of people. We need each other to go deeper than that.

          Governments in the past have passed laws which cut social programs — these things do happen and good people will rise to the occasion when it happens and show thier true colours.

          The truth is all have to wake up and do better and make our hearts right with God —— and with the people in our lives by being open and welcoming to each other and by looking for inroads of commonality with those we disagree with.

          Maintain the attitude of Christ by being open to knowing the difference between those who mean harm and those who do not.

          Feeding the hungry and thirsty is more than a physical act it is also a spiritual act — from the heart.

          When we are passionate and focused on a cause we may not see the opportunities in front of us for peacemaking and diplomacy.

          One thing Jesus was good at was discerning hearts and he had friends who were Pharisees and tax collectors along with standing in solidarity with the poor.

          This is my best effort on the fly.

  7. I love, preach, follow, trust, obey , give all to Jesus Christ, Christians who support, preach Truth, Follow Truth, Give all to Truth.

    Love Jesus Christ , Savior to all who would deny themselves and follow and serve no other master except Gods son who died on a cross, Jesus Christ .

    Love is of god, But that is Godly love that seek s out truth and denies selfish lust and selfish ambitions that take, steal, and destroy.
    God is love , But that is holy, love.

    • Except you don’t believe in Matthew 25 as evidenced by things you’ve written on other days. You don’t believe that all the hungry should be fed, all the naked clothed, all the sick cared for and that all needs should be met. You only believing in doing that for those that “deserve” it according to some man-made, and not God-given theological checklist. Because the God-given checklist is for all with no exceptions, footnotes or appendices.

      One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • well, Chris, Paul Ryan, Trump and the GOP are the party of selfish lust, selfish ambitions that take, steal and destroy.

  8. For one, government programs haven’t solved poverty either. Could we find research that poverty/homelessness has decreased with more spending under democratic presidents? Not sure, it would be worth looking into. Two, republicans are not against no government programs just less. So it is not really an argument of church vs government, but how much. Three, more government spending does not always equate to more for the poor. Tax cuts may trim laws, administrative jobs, etc. Making the programs efficient. Four, Jesus said himself the poor you will always have. So the real question is what is the most effective way to treat the situation? Being familiar with tax law, the former president/congress enacted law to phase out the charity deduction after you make around $150k. Basically not much over that you would get no benefit from giving. It gives the wealthy zero incentive to give. I’m not sure that is a good strategy considering direct giving would be more efficient than government giving more support. Not many people can argue against that. As I mentioned in a message to John, my personal experience of the church and people and programs I know are very generous and if their taxes weren’t 40 percent (and ever increasing under democratic presidents ) these wealthy people would give directly. Which is more efficient and they know exactly where their money is going and not paying for allthe bureaucracy. That is why republicans vote the way they do. Across the board of Americans it is easy to cast a vote in light of charitableness, but much harder when it comes to your personal checkbook. Maybe it’s time for us (all Americans) to take more personal responsibility instead of just thinking the wealthy’s 40 percent in taxes will take care of the poor. Because the government is not solving poverty either to my knowledge. And in case you need some affirmation that I give, 1/3 of our total expenses (charity plus all living) in the last few yrs since we’ve been married have gone to charity. Or about 18 percent of our NET paychecks….meaning after taxes are taking out. And we aren’t rolling it in or have much savings at all. I don’t think we are selfish. And I think it’s time to stop judging the conservatives until you see their personal finances. Because I won’t pretend that I know yours. Thanks for your time!

    • We will never “solve” poverty – “the poor will always be with us.” It is not a matter of using tax dollars to solve the problem , but rather to alleviate human suffering.

      • Really? Then what are the government programs using to alleviate the poor? Thin air? The whole premise is someone, you or your neighbor, has to pay for it. So it sounds like democrats really want to steal 40 percent of the wealthy’s paycheck to pay for it and forget about their own responsibility. Like I say in the end we all need to take personal responsibility not just a vote.

        • Ashley, have you ever heard of concepts called “the greater good” and being your brother’s keeper? Most of the people in America today, most through no fault of their own, are just one catastrophic illness, one job loss or one salary cut away from disaster. It’s impossible for most people to get ahead nowadays. And yet we have a group of people in America who have more money than they could burn through in 10 lifetimes – and they’re the ones who keep on taking more, more, more for themselves. And classifying people who are hanging on by their fingernails and just asking for enough help to take away the daily uncertainty as lazy whiners. The reason government programs aren’t accomplishing much is that the funding for them is a drop in the bucket compared to what’s ACTUALLY needed. If you’ve never been in dire straits (I have), you have no clue what real life is like now. It’s brutal.

        • Ashley, I do not want anyone to steal anyone’s money. I have asked this question of a few conservatives and never received an answer.

          How are we to believe that cutting taxes and gutting regulations aka “trickle down” will not result in one more recession, or again just make the rich richer?

          My husband and I were knocked to our knees during Bush I’s recession. We worked are way out of debt on our own. We held on and weathered Bush II’s recession. We were still working so had time to recover somewhat when pensions lost half their worth.

          We are retired now, non existent jobs won’t help us. Are you young enough to weather through another recession. Many are not. My little pension is being cut by a third this year. Too many old people and not enough young people.

          We do not have time to weather another crisis brought on by greed. The thug on the street stills a car and hopefully goes to jail. Banks, Wall Street, corporations steal millions. How many go to jail or lose their wealth? Which one does more harm to this country? I am not asking which one gets the blame. I already know that. Thank you in advance if you respond.

          I wish you nothing but peace. I am just a scared old lady – no threat to anyone.

          • Joanne, I am sorry to say this, but the GOP economic plan is the same one used by Reagan, both Bushes, and the GOP sworn into office in January, 1929.

            The GOP economic policy has only one result. Need I spell it out?

        • Ashley. Do you remember the show “Wild Kingdom”? Where was Marlin Perkins always located—while Jim walked into the Pond to wrestle the 300-pound python? That’s what happens when people are asked to take “personal responsibility.” People like you—Ashley—stand 300 ft above the pond on a safe cliff while their partner—Jim—wades into the pond to wrestle the 300-lb python of helping those Jesus called “the least of these.”

          And you right now Ashley—you individually—right now—completely apart from the will of Jesus Christ— are engaging in one of the world’s oldest non-Christian pursuits—as pointed out by John F. Kennedy’s chief economic adviser John Kenneth Galbraith. Here is John’s quote:

          “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”

          Ashley. Knowing what I do about the Bible and Jesus, your short post above to which I am responding is morally and Jesusly unconscionable. You need to sit down for a moment and ask yourself a question. What does Jesus mean to you? Was he just an insurance salesman who sold you a COMMODITY you needed called a “Get Out of Hell Free Insurance Policy,” and you really did not care to otherwise follow him and takes his red words in the New Testament seriously? I am asking this because your post above exhibits a callous, near-zero knowledge of Jesus Christ and the demands He has put upon you with that insurance policy. Your post is as far from the Jesus of the New Testament as the east is from the west—and like I said—thinking and doing like that are unconscionable in the presence of Christ—absolutely unconscionable. You and all your wealthy conservative buddies need to understand that. Another thing you need to understand is that Jesus showed little to no sympathy for the wealthy in the New Testament. When He discusses the wealthy, it is almost always in the context of people who are doing evil and have no hope of seeing Heaven. As Jesus says: “They already have their reward.” By that, Jesus means that the wealth and comfort you have right now in this life of only about 78 years is the only taste of Heaven you may ever have. In the mind of Jesus, the wealthy do poorly beyond the grave because their real god is their money and the things they own. Jesus is asking you a question right now Ashley, and He sent me to do it. What is your choice going to be—Jesus on the one hand or your money, material possessions, and man-made GOP philosophy?

          • Charles, You don’t have a reason to judge her that way. This is exactly what these generalized condemnations against conservative Christians is leading to. Reckless accusations against people you don’t even know.

            There is a fiscal balance between paying taxes having personal wealth– and what we do with each of those things is a choice. That is what Ashley is saying.

            It’s awful what is happening and the people who said that their vote would not cause this to happen need to step up and act — not be loathed and ridiculed.

            I have seen this sort of thing happen before and it puts a burden on society and people do what they can to to help. I have done what I can and will continue to more because there is always someone who needs help.

            All you are doing is finger pointing.

            • Thanks to post like these, sixteen people have joined my group in the past hour and twenty minutes.

              Thank you for recruiting them, Kathy A.

              One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

              https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

              • You are welcome, I am glad to help. But I won’t join a cause that believes in brow beating people just because they are conservative.

                I am glad this divide happened between you and me it certainly has awakened me to see a much more terrible crisis in Christianity.

                so I will resist the temptation to beat up on conservative christians and then turn around and make excuses for doing so.

                • This strikes me as passive-aggressive language, Kathy, and I’ll tell you why. You browbeat. All the time. The message I take away from almost every thing you write is that you want people to behave as you want them to and then when we don’t we are on the receiving end of subtle insults expressed in passive-aggressive vocabulary.

                  Yes, I am being blunt.

                  You say you will not browbeat people because they are conservative, but I guess then you are perfectly ok with the people who come here to browbeat liberal/progressives.

                  It is not WHAT people say that make them trolls, it is HOW they say it.

                  Think on that and the way you choose to post.

                  For those who are sick and tired of the nonsense spewed and touted by conservatives

                  One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

                  https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

                  • Gloriamarie, If I am being assertive and confident you could certainly take it the wrong way. As well you can choose to communicate from you own perspective how it feels and I cannot help that.

                    God knows our hearts and I am okay with that.

            • You love it when he beats people up.

              Too bad you missed him calling some women here “bitches.” (They deserved it. They voted for Trump).

        • Ashely, I have been thinking about this since I read it yesterday.

          Have you any idea how condescending and patronizing, not to mention, privileged you sound? Honestly, you remind of the nasty rich girls in all YA novels.

          Personal responsibility? Please tell me what responsibility the poor can personally take? Do you have any idea what it means to be poor in the USA? Do you know what it means to be told you may only have $2000 worth of assets as a single person, $3000 if a couple?

          Do you realize that means that the poor of the USA live constantly on the edge of precipice never knowing when the ground is going to collapse under their feet?

          Have you read the articles I posted? For example, the one about what it is like going to the food bank?

          You said something about how giving people money wouldn’t encourage the poor to spend. I responded with a list of very basic items I need and you ignored it.

          Personally right now, I am trying to be responsible about my transportation needs. My representative payee who handles my Social Security for me tells me I don’t have enough money to use the handicapped access bus to get to medical appointments, physical therapy, pick up prescriptions, shop for groceries, visit my 92-year-old mother in frail health while she is still alive because the sum of all the costs exceeds my income and it is less expensive for me to pay car insurance, registration than it is use the bus.

          But now my car needs repairs that no one in their right mind would consider because their cost exceeds that of my car. And yet, even without car expenses, my rep payee tells me there is not enough money to ride the bus everywhere I have to go.

          Please tell me how I as a disabled person, a handicapped person, a senior citizen can possibly be any more responsible for my life than I am?

          Thanks to those who voted GOP, third party, or didn’t bother to vote, people in my situation are going to be even less able to be personally responsible.

          • To quote Ash: So it sounds like democrats really want to steal 40 percent of the wealthy’s paycheck to pay for it and forget about their own

            SInce, Ash, the rich are stealing 95% + of the income growth and an ever increasing share of the wealth then you and they really don’t have grounds to kvetch.

            Do you really want to try arguing that the top few percent deserve 95% of the income growth and so much of the wealth? Especially when we’re the ones doing the work to create it?

            As Republican Oliver Wendall Holmes said ” Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.”

            What your party wants is, bluntly, feudalism.

            As I told you before..quit pretending that the rich are some put upon group of victims, they’re not. They don’t need your help and they certainly don’t need your protection. All you are doing by doing so is screwing yourself and your family over financially. No matter how much you get down on your knees and grovel at the likes of Trump and his ilk they will never make you one of them. Nor will they ever take care of you.

            So get off your knees, Ash.

            It never occurs to you conservatives that if the economy was better balanced so that everyone, not just the rich, was getting ahead economically we wouldn’t need all those government programs you so love to hate. It never occurs to you that the largest reason all those government programs you so hate exist..is because you and your party so get down on your knees and..grovel to the rich and let them screw the country over.

            Either the rich start delivering on all those jobs galore and economic prosperity for us that your party has been promising for 40 years that they have been failing to deliver or they can surrender those tax cuts your party has spent the last 40 years giving them.

            • oh btw, Ash, one of the reasons for raising taxes on the rich is to get them to disgorge all that wealth they’ve been hoarding. One of the reasons taxes on the top few were so high when Eisenhower was President was not so the government could get that money in taxes..it was to get the rich to stop taking it all in the first place.

              All your party’s tax cuts on the rich have done in 40 years is promote/prod the rich into taking ever bigger slices of the economic pie.

              According to the US Census bureau from 1947-1979 this was the income growth percentages for the population of the United States:

              1947-1979 (When taxes on the rich were signficantly higher than they are now):

              Bottom 20 percent of the income distribution: 118 percent increase
              Second-to-bottom 20 percent: 100 percent increase
              Middle 20 percent: 111 percent increase
              Second-to-highest 20 percent: 114 percent increase
              Highest 20 percent: 99 percent increase
              Highest 5 percent: 86 percent increase

              Since 1980 (and the advent of all those tax cuts on the rich) the top few are the only ones with actual income growth.

              So which is better for the country, Ash? Which is better for the average Americans?

              • so as a liberal, Ash, and as a former Republican I suggest to you a choice.

                Either the top few stop taking it all and the government rebalances the economy so that it benefits us all. IE all those job galore/economic prosperity promises your party has been making for 40 years start actually happening….

                Or you and yours stand aside and let us affect the change needed by taxing the rich at higher rates.

                Because the status quo can not be allowed to stand..it will destroy the economy and the country. We can no longer afford an economy where only the top few benefit. The result if it is not fixed will make the Great Depression look tame.

                Because as has been shown the last 40 years..your party’s tax cuts on the rich DO NOT and WILL NEVER work.

                If the top few want to keep the tax cuts they’ve gotten the last 40 years they stop swallowing it all. And they do not get more tax cuts. Period. If they don’t then to hell with those tax cuts. So time for you to stand aside or help. But either way get the **** out of the way. Your precious supply side economics, one way or the other, NEEDS TO END.

                We can not afford the gilded age your party is creating.

      • Sadly the “church” seems to see its role as SIMPLY to alleviate suffering i.e. “put a band-aid on it”. We, as “the church” or as a society or as a nation (in this country) have the opportunity and the RESPONSIBILITY to not only “alleviate suffering” by dispensing band-aids, but by VOTING for policies that will even out the playing field.

        • I so agree with that, we need to give a hand up with that hand out. I would add if we leave it up to the churches then it will be only for like minded folk not for everyone unless it’s that little black baby in Africa. Not the little black, white or brown baby here because they can pull themselves up unless they pass the litmus test that these churches have. Somehow it makes them feel good. When that should not be the end game it should be about making others lives goo.

      • Oh, the great conservative excuse.

        How do you propose to alleviate human suffering? Because the church FAILED to do it before tax dollars were ever used to try to help.

        The problem is the selfishness and greed of people who want what they want and don’t care what happens to the poor.

        One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • These are LITERALLY nothing but Fox News talking points. By your “reasoning,” if we got rid of all taxes there would be no poverty in America because everyone would be Daddy Warbucks. Sheesh. Just stop pretending to care about the poor and admit that your heart is with your bank accounts.

      • You didn’t read it right republicans are for less taxes not no taxes. Less government not no government. That is a big difference. And that’s my personal experience not speaking for those who choose not to give.

        • My gosh, Ashley. Yes, we did read it right We understood exactly the evil you have chosen. It is exactly this “You didn’t read it right republicans are for less taxes not no taxes. Less government not no government. That is a big difference. And that’s my personal experience not speaking for those who choose not to give.”

          It is the utter selfishness of people who refuse to pay higher taxes so the wealth can re-distributed so that ALL of us may have enough to thrive.

          You selfish conservative Christians did NOT do it when there was smaller government and you did not do when the taxes were lower. It is you failure to meet the needs of all that forced higher txes and bigger government to do for ALL what you refused to do when you had the chance.

        • no, ash, your party is for no taxes on the rich, no taxes on corporations and making the poor and the middle class poorer by making us sacrifice.

          Your party has spent the last 40 years doing nothing but cutting taxes on the rich and the corporations.

          When is enough enough?

          Your party has done nothing for 40 years but remove the government safety net to screw over the poor and the middle class.

          To what purpose? That hasn’t made the lives of the middle class and the poor better.

          Your party is kicking 24 million people off insurance just so they can give billions of dollars in tax cuts to the corporate ceos of health insurance companies.

          And you want to claim your party cares about the poor and middle class? No. Quit deluding yourself.

        • Ashley, Republicans DO want to abolish ALL taxes.
          From 1980’s Vice Presidential race, David Koch running in the Libertarian party, this is is platform, which you might recognize as 45’s gamebook:
          “Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:
          “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”

          “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

          “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

          “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

          “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

          “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
          (Here it comes:)
          “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
          (And THIS:)
          “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

          “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

          “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

          “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”

          “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

          “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

          “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

          “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

          “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

          “We demand the return of America’s railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

          “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called “self-protection” equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

          “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

          “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

          “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

          “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”

          “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

          “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

          “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

          “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.””

          ALL, every single one, of these actions strips the Federal government of its power, to the point where it would be no more than the embassy for foreign relations. Did you notice that education, welfare, social services, healthcare and Social Security should ALL be done away with? Did you notice that all of the regulatory (protective) agencies should be closed? That means no worker safety rules, no limits on pollution, no concern with just what is in your food or medications.
          Frankly, it boils down to this: the rich get richer, through any means, without anything to stop them and the poor should just…die.

          • That, my friend, is scary, or should be scary to anyone who isn’t in the top 1% or isn’t a corporation because corporations are people too. Thanks for the comment, says more than anything I could.

            • The thing thatI don’t understand is when will GOP supporters who are not of the 2% going to realize that the GOP wish to do away with everything that makes their supporters lives worth living?

              One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

              https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

        • Ashley. So, people need to starve so the government can be smaller? Look to Jesus Ashley. Jesus would never engage in such nonsense—and I think you know that in a place deep down within yourself—-but it is a place you fear—a place you never visit within yourself. Go visit there without fear. The freedom from fear you seek is there in that place.

      • Try actually reading and understanding what she said. These people are being taxed to the max and have only so much left that they can give after an inefficient and greedy government robs them of over half the results of their production. This is not just. At any rate, were that not the case and if the government were not inefficiently squandering the proceeds it rakes in, much more could be done for everyone.

        I hope you’re not the type of liberal who thinks that by pointing a gun a someone and making him give some money to someone else that you’re doing a good work and that you then pat yourself on the back for being generous. It’s very easy to be generous with someone else’s money.

            • Because, ACP, that is what your party’s economic policies the last 40 years have done. They have redistributed all the wealth and all the income upwards into the hands of the top few.

              its how from 1947-1980 the poor and the middle class had higher income growth than the rich but since 1981 and Reagan the only ones with income growth are the rich.

              Your party has spent the last 40 years recreating the Gilded Age..a time in which life was good if you were white, male and rich. But life sucked if you weren’t. And what was the result of that Gilded Age? Ah yes..the Great Depression. Because no matter how rich the rich are they can never sustain the United States and its economy.

              it is not the rich that grows the economy or creates jobs, it is not supply that grows the economy. It is the poor and the middle class having money to spend that grows the economy and creates jobs, it is demand that grows the economy. And we can’t do that when all the wealth and all the income growth is in the hands of the top few and stays there.

              • Succinct and to the point. Thank you. Ashley and ACP refuse to even consider the welfare that goes from the middle class and poor to the wealthy.

                • If someone isn’t earning enough money to pay any federal tax or is not earning any money at all, how can their “wealth” be transferred to the wealthy or big business if they have nothing to be taken?

                  • gee, acp, because they do pay taxes? Because your party has been using cuts to social security and the rest of the safety net to pay for all the fellatio your party gives to the rich? And because your party has encouraged the top few to take more and more which leaves less for the rest of us.

                    US taxpayers subsidize Walmart, for example, to the tune of a million dollars per store per year because of their low ass wage. Walmart can well as afford to pay their workers enough to live on without such subsidies…but that would leave less profit to the Walton family.

                    Where do you think the rich are getting all the income growth if you don’t think it’s from us?

                  • Acp, do yourself a favor and learn how the eitc actually works. The poor do pay taxes…despite your party’spent bs to the contrary

            • Well it’s time that those doing the work, the poor and middle class, get a bigger slice of the pie and those sitting on their fat asses, the top few, to sacrifice. Because they sure as hell have not done anything to deserve nearly all the wealth and income growth.

              • Have you considered all the wealth that is sucked out of our economy and paid to bureaucrats and government workers. There are redundant jobs, useless jobs, and they are overpaid and have pensions and benefits that are paid out of the pockets of the working class when they retire from their “work.” This is a huge burden and if we could be rid of all those who unjustly swill at the public trough, there would be so much more to go around. And I’m not precluding big government contractors. Thankfully Trump is a good negotiator and is working hard to keep them from gouging the taxpayers.

                The rich are just convenient scapegoats. Who are “the rich” anyway? Where do you draw the line and by what criteria? By assets? By income? Both?

                Is someone who makes $200,000 in the private sector among the rich and undeserving?

        • Ha ha ha ha ha Your wrods are utterly ridiculous.

          “These people are being taxed to the max and have only so much left that they can give after an inefficient and greedy government robs them of over half the results of their production.”

          What a huge pack of lies this is and I trust you will be going to confession today to confess them before you dare to receive communion tomorrow.

          First of all, taxes have been repeatedly cut on the demographic who can most afford them. This has been happening for decades. Learn the history.

          Second of all, taxes have been repeatedly increased on the demographic who can least afford them. Learn from history.

          Third of all, corporations have been skimping on their taxes and dodging them for decades so paying taxes has zero impact on their production. Learn from history.

          One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

        • My husband made over $1.2 million dollars last year and has made high six-figures for years now. Over the coming years he is tracking to make a multi-million dollar salary *every* year. Because we live in California, our combined state and federal marginal tax rate is 53%. So I think I can safely say that we ARE the wealthy whose paychecks you are so valiantly defending. And to that I say,

          Please PLEASE stop.

          For the love of all that is good and holy, please stop.

          Even taxed at 53%, we own a $4 million home in one of the wealthiest towns in America that we paid cash for. Our 3 kids want for nothing. They go to a private preschool than costs more than the median household income in th country. I am a full time stay-at-home mom and have 45 hours a week of childcare to help me with caring for our three young children. We have Cadillac healthcare. My husband drives a $100k+ car. We have three cars for two drivers because sometimes we want to drive a different car. We go on lavish vacations. We have people who clean our home and landscape our yard and care for our children. I have boatloads of expensive clothes and jewelry. We drink amazing wine, eat beautiful food and have *no* idea what a gallon of milk costs.

          There is *absolutely* NO ONE who should feel sorry for us. Our cups runneth over (and over and over). Turning off our money spigot by 53% and we still can’t keep up with our good fortune. So your righteous indignation about the fate of our money is embarrassing and frankly, wildly inappropriate.

          If you want to be righteously indignant about the fate of *your* money, then fine. But OWN that. Stop positioning your own selfish desire to keep more money for yourself with a feigned concern about how the wealthy are treated. We are treated ridiculously well.

          We are among the people who are asked to pay an additional .9% of our income to fund Obamacare. We WANT to pay this because there is no church that I am aware of that provides healthcare insurance to people. We believe that paying it to the government is a bargaining at twice the price, not because of some BS lefty bleeding heart liberal reason, but because we’ll get that money back multi-fold because a healthy populace is a *productive* populace.

          We are thrilled to pay our taxes to the government so that we don’t have to vet tens of thousands of charities with respect to their efficacy in caring for the least among us. We just vet our representatives and vote them out if they spout some BS about how cutting assistance to the poor to give my husband and me MORE money is the “compassionate” thing to do.

          We know there is no charity or group of charities that even comes close to providing the level of systemic support that the US government provides for those who have been beaten down by the economy that is treated my husband and I so well.

          And for the record, we give huge amounts to directly to charities too.

          Why don’t we live more modestly and give even more to charity, you ask? To which I would say, Mr./Ms. Catholic Perspective:

          “Wow, it’s so very easy for YOU to be generous with MY money.”

          • Roslind, may I please come and live with you? I am diabetic, disabled, handicapped, and am impoverished as I was deemed disabled when I was 44 so obviously Social Security is not much.

            Under the proposed budget I will lose my healthcare, rental assistance, and the pittance that is my SNAP “benefit.” I won’t even be able to live in my car because it needs a serious repair to keep it roadworthy and the police will haul it off when it is deemed unsafe to drive.

            I have a very quiet lifestyle, love to cook when not in too much pain to do so. I am at the moment elgible for an In Home Supportive Services homemaker who would clean my room, do my laundry and I wouldn’t be any burden.

            Plus I have a MA in Church History, a BA in Biblical and Theological Studies and maybe that might interest you and yours.

            I knit. I can spin my own yarn. happy to knit sweaters and afghans for you.

            Willing to give back in so many ways in exchange to not being homeless.

          • Whoa. Way to NAIL it, Rosalind. I make next to nothing in comparison, but I do not grudge the taxes I pay because they are the dues one pays to have an actual society. I would much rather my taxes go to pay for feeding people rather than M1 tanks the military doesn’t even want.

            • I so agree. Actually the money for defense is going into private contractor coffers not the men and women who sign on to defend Joe’s right to be a jerk. Peace……………

          • Rosalind. thanks for your comments. Definitely a new & welcome perspective here. [ I guess you paid about $600+k in income tax last year? ]

            Not being nosey, or judgmental, but it is relevant to your argument. Did you pay 53% on $1.2m, or did you take deductions? [Obviously, you don’t have to answer that. This is hypothetical question only. ]

            • I am happy to answer: We paid less than that — probably in the neighborhood of 42% effective rate ($500K in fed and state taxes) and of course we took deductions. But our deductions are not as much as you would think because we don’t have a mortgage (not complaining!) but even if we did, mortgage interest is limited to $1.1M in house value so we would be able to deduct about 25% of what we actually paid in interest if we had a mortgage. Also a lot of our Schedule A deductions that most people take are limited to a degree by income. (i.e. they make you limit that amount you can take based on whatever overall income is.)

              My husband and I probably pay more than a lot of people who have similar amounts of overall income because most of my husband’s income come from W-2 salary and bonus rather than those who earn carried interest (which is taxed at a much lower rate.)

          • Thank you Rosalind. Our family was once much like your family—and we now have no income as a result of me getting laid off from work three years ago in a bad economy and having some health problems here at age 64. We saved a lot for retirement, but we are spending that down prematurely—and it is going down fast. When we were well off like you, we could have easily afforded two Mercedes in the garage.

            I grew up in abject , grinding poverty in the white ghetto section of a small town. Jesus gifted me with the rare condition of being able to experience both extreme poverty and significant wealth across my life. Because of that, I have a perspective on life that is most like yours. I can plainly see that Jesus has touched your heart. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Rosalind.

        • …Progressives don’t realize that no one in their right mind would sacrifice and work their fingers to the bone, just so Uncle Sam can take away 1/2 of it. It takes away the incentive. [Would anyone here like 1/2 their paycheck taken, after a grueling 100 hr week? ]

          Higher taxes for the ‘Rich’ just means fewer people will make the effort. And the diminishing returns will hurt Govt revenue NOT increase Govt revenue.

          In that type of Society (which we have now), only the Govt Bureaucrats get the ‘goodies’. The Govt workers see the big pay checks, and all the frills, and the prestige. The reason Progressives want to increase Govt size and spending so they can keep their large pensions.

          [Check out how much the State of Illinois is in the red ink for state workers. ]

          Trump is here to tackle that problem. He will succeed.

          • I am breaking my vows one by one today but here goes. Leslie M, if you really believe that you are out of your mind and have not paid any attention to history at all. That is such a false premise there is no argument worthy of it. Do you think at all before you comment or do you just google Fox and find a comment from them.

            • the problem with your argument, Kathleen, is that the ones doing the work, by and large, that creates all the wealth the rich take…are not the rich. Its the poor and the middle class.

              It isn’t Donald Trump that works his fingers to the bone. It isn’t the Koch brothers that work their fingers to the bone.

              It’s the poor and middle class people that work for them that work their fingers to the bone.

              So why should Trump and the Koch brothers and their ilk get the vast majority of the money they had absolutely no hand in doing the work to creating?

              You talk about “incentive to work” and yet the poor and the middle class work harder now than we did 40 years ago and we have less to show for it. And it isn’t because of government or taxes. It’s because the rich you so get down on your knees and grovel to have been swallowing all of what our work has produced.

              So is there a reason we shouldn’t take it back by higher taxes on them? Not like you can honestly say we have gained anything by cutting their taxes.

              • Kathleen where is the “incentive to work” for the poor and the middle class when they do all the work and the top few get all the wealth? Where is the incentive to work when for 40 years 95% of the income growth has gone to the top few?

                Where is the incentive to work when the middle class and the poor get further and further behind because you conservatives can’t stop giving fellatio to the rich and demanding that the poor and the middle class sacrifice and pay for it?

                • Let’s not forget about all the overpaid government workers sucking vasts amounts of wealth out of the economy so they can have cushy easy jobs and retire early with their pensions, all off the backs of the poor people you think the rich are exploiting.

                  Look at Fat City please. There is your culprit.

                  • Sorry, Leslie, I missed that you said that too, but it’s worth repeating.

                    Government workers are the elites, but the masquerade as being among the working class. They are overpaid, underworked, and live well when they retire early. They are parasites. “The rich” are involved in real commerce and production.

                    The progressives look at the “greed of the rich” but turn a blind eye to “government greed.” Why is that? I can think of one reason–that they hope to be on the gravy train too, but many are productive.

              • Please allow me to point out, James Kessler, that you should be addressing leslie m and not Kathleen B who is already, IMO, on the side of the angels.

                leslie m made the points you refute.

                • Thank you, Gloriamarie, I thought I had missed something or that someone else named Kathleen B was posting for a second. I know how someone can get confused with the names when the point is so salient. Peace, friend

              • James, I agree with you, I think it is Leslie M, that you should be talking to. I don’t agree with her either. Peace, Love, and Resist.

            • Well, Kathleen B, she has already demonstrated several times over that she willingly perpetuates lies. She seems to believe them, but they are still lies.

          • Actually Leslie , I am going to refer you to what I wrote above. Perhaps it will be of interest to you…

            My husband made over $1.2 million dollars last year and has made high six-figures for years now. Over the coming years he is tracking to make a multi-million dollar salary *every* year. Because we live in California, our combined state and federal marginal tax rate is 53%. So I think I can safely say that we ARE the wealthy whose paychecks you are so valiantly defending. And to that I say,

            Please PLEASE stop.

            For the love of all that is good and holy, please stop.

            Even taxed at 53%, we own a $4 million home in one of the wealthiest towns in America that we paid cash for. Our 3 kids want for nothing. They go to a private preschool than costs more than the median household income in the country. I am a full time stay-at-home mom and have 45 hours a week of childcare to help me with caring for our three young children. We have Cadillac healthcare. My husband drives a $100k+ car. We have three cars for two drivers because sometimes we want to drive a different car. We go on lavish vacations. We have people who clean our home and landscape our yard and care for our children. I have boatloads of expensive clothes and jewelry. We drink amazing wine, eat beautiful food and have *no* idea what a gallon of milk costs.

            There is *absolutely* NO ONE who should feel sorry for us. Our cups runneth over (and over and over). Turning off our money spigot by 53% and we still can’t keep up with our good fortune. So your righteous indignation about the fate of our money is embarrassing and frankly, wildly inappropriate.

            If you want to be righteously indignant about the fate of *your* money, then fine. But OWN that. Stop positioning your own selfish desire to keep more money for yourself with a feigned concern about how the wealthy are treated. We are treated ridiculously well.

            We are among the people who are asked to pay an additional .9% of our income to fund Obamacare. We WANT to pay this because there is no church that I am aware of that provides healthcare insurance to people. We believe that paying it to the government is a bargaining at twice the price, not because of some BS lefty bleeding heart liberal reason, but because we’ll get that money back multi-fold because a healthy populace is a *productive* populace.

            We are thrilled to pay our taxes to the government so that we don’t have to vet tens of thousands of charities with respect to their efficacy in caring for the least among us. We just vet our representatives and vote them out if they spout some BS about how cutting assistance to the poor to give my husband and me MORE money is the “compassionate” thing to do.

            We know there is no charity or group of charities that even comes close to providing the level of systemic support that the US government provides for those who have been beaten down by the economy that has treated my husband and I so well.

            And for the record, we give huge amounts to directly to charities too.

            Leslie M, I can assure that not only are my husband and I in our “right mind(s)” being perfectly OK with the government taking 53% of our income after my husband works 100 hours every week to earn our wealth, but we are also in our right *hearts* and our right *souls.*

            • Rosalind:

              I understand & believe you that you are pleased with how Govt spends your tax dollars.

              Conservatives just think differently.

              We think that your Husband, and people like him, have a talent for making wise, cost efficient, wealth-growing decisions. (We think Govt bureaucracy is bloated, full of mis-management, wasteful spending, & inefficiency.)

              Surely, we can agree to disagree.

                • :-). He’s a national treasure. Apparently, his FB Group has more than doubled recently. it’s a great place to let some of the wounds heal, [from all the bashing]. and people are civil to ea other.

                • Ah yes. Thomas Sowell. I read him often. I guess the Hoover Institution needed to find an “Uncle Tom” to sell out his racial and ethnic group for “Old Massah,” and he does a real fine job of it too. No one is more greatful than me that this living sack of sh*t is retiring.

                  • It’s economics 101 and not politics.

                    Too bad you can’t allow for a black person to have a mind of his own. If he strays from the Democrat Plantation he’s an “Uncle Tom.”

              • Leslie M,

                “We think Govt bureaucracy is bloated, full of mis-management, wasteful spending, & inefficiency.”

                I don’t think we disagree on this, actually… I think there is absolutely wasteful spending and inefficiency, but I accept that in a democracy, I don’t get to decide 100% how my dollars are spent. For example, I think it is appalling that we are spending even a single dollar to let our billionaire President spend every weekend at Mar-a-Lago when we have a big beautiful tax payer funded house for him to live in. I think it is criminal that we are paying for world-class healthcare for Members of Congress who are hell bent on repealing the only healthcare some people will ever have. I think that it is beyond insane that we (and by that I mean my husband and me more than most people, and probably way more than you) are paying for an utterly ineffective and colossally wasteful southern border wall that will do exactly zero to prevent unlawful border crossings or prevent terrorism. I think handing out corporate welfare to companies that simply funnel profits to the already ridiculously wealthy when men and women who have fought for our country are barely able to find jobs is the definition of wasteful.

                My husband indeed has a “talent for making wise, cost efficient, wealth-growing decisions.” And he is also an *incredibly* decent man who knows that there is NOTHING that is more ignorant, wasteful, wealth-destroying or short-sighted than a doctrine of “I’ve got mine… too bad for you.” What you don’t seem to understand is that when we get to this level of wealth inequality as we are in this country, the single greatest risk to *my* family’s wealth is *not* from the government coming to take 3% more on the margin, but rather from the complete overthrow of the entire system by the masses that the system has impoverished. Putting completely aside our (my and my husband’s) *moral* conviction about why he and I feel as we do, the Russian, French and Chinese revolutions are pretty instructive, if you want to look at what happens to people like my husband and me when income inequality grows to such outrageous levels.

                Look, you seem like a sincere Christian woman who believes what you have been taught about the prosperity gospel and all that. And I don’t doubt that you know wealthy people who feel differently from my husband and me. But I think you should know that conservatives don’t speak for all wealthy people and I know a ton of wealthy people who are incensed about their wealth being accosted and you should know that when they get their big tax cuts, they have absolutely *no* intention of spending it in any way that is going to benefit you by making wise, efficient investments. To wit: a guy who lives down the street from us, took his Bush era tax cut and bought stock in Alibaba (yay for China!). He now buys better French wine with his earnings (yay for France!) and his wife has even more pairs of Manolo Blahniks than Carrie Bradshaw (yay for Italy!), but the poor factory worker in Ohio is going to be waiting until hell freezes over before he gets his job back. And my neighbor didn’t even spend it all. The rest is in an off-shore account.

                So there’s that.

                Leslie, I am really truly not trying to be unkind to you. I am actually trying *desperately* to help the world — including you — because I believe that to those whom much is given, much is expected and I believe that I am called to use my privilege to serve Christ. I think that I am called to use my privilege to make the world better for *everyone,* including the people who think of me and my husband as a Smug Godless California Liberals (we aren’t Godless, but nevertheless…) but we all have our crosses to bear and in the big scheme of things, mine is inconsequential compared with what I imagine you and the other people defending my family’s wealth suffer everyday.

                You may believe this or not — but I am actually on your side too. Really I am. 🙂

                Peace and love.

                • Rosalind. Leslie is relatively wealthy too. The problem I have with Leslie is that she believes deeply in Jesus for her salvation—which she needs as a COMMODITY—but she is unwilling to understand that the sayings and doings of Jesus in the New Testament—which are set as an example for us to imitate and emulate—are close to 180 degrees at odds with her all too human, fleshly, and secular understanding of wealth, life, politics, and many other issues. I am hoping that she will wake up one of these days.

                  • From what I have read from leslie she does acts of service in her community plus lives out the Gospel.

                    That is the point… we do both. We don’t just do acts of service and throw the Gospel of salvation and life out the window.

                    The Gospel is about our reconciliation with God and learning to come to know and love God– and others, including our enemies.

                    Our love should grow towards all of humanity– not grow cold to those we disagree with

                  • So says the man who called Leslie a b***ch more than once.

                    You don’t have a clue Mr. Meanspirit. Worry about cleaning up your own act because there is much to do, evident by your frequent verbal abusiveness.

                • Rosalind. thanks for thoughtful reply. [certainly this is a mostly an unsatisfactory way to to discuss such large things.]

                  Prosperity Gospel? Good God No. That is not me. I despise prosperity gospel, because it’s a lie. I don’t put my faith in ‘faith’. I only put my faith in Jesus Christ.

                  I feel extremely happy to live in this country and pay income tax every year. It’s an honor! And I’m blessed to participate. My point is, is that ‘rich’ people should pay a fair tax, and not be subject to unfair coercive ransom level amounts. It’s not fair. I think ‘rich’ people add to our society in so many ways, that rather than be vilified (like they are now), they should be appreciated even more.

                  Personally, in general, I admire rich people. Because they:
                  — buy stuff
                  — hire people (that pay income taxes)
                  –support the Arts
                  –are benevolent
                  –etc., etc.

              • To quote: . (We think Govt bureaucracy is bloated, full of mis-management, wasteful spending, & inefficiency.)

                Well first off..if you want to see mismanagement, bloated, wasted spending and inefficiency you should check out private corporations. Start with Trump’s businesses..you know the dozen plus he’s buried and the 5 bankruptcies. Then you can move onto Wall Street.

                Then you can move onto the military industrial complex that your party wants the poor and the middle class to sacrifice so you can spend another 60 billion on for a military that we already spend more on than the next 30 countries combined.

                Because the bloated spending in the government isn’t what your party cuts. The bloated spending is what your party adds to every single damn year. *points at the military*

                To quote; Surely, we can agree to disagree.

                Disagree all you want. Just stop harming the poor and the middle class. Quit making us pay for your party’s, to be bunt, constant cocksucking of the top few, large corporations and military contractors.

                • Or how about the $90 million taxpayer dollars used to pay for his golf weekends in FL. Apparently, he seems to think the job is only M-F. I also recall the occupant criticizing Obama for the occasional golf game and how if he were elected he wouldn’t take off time to play golf and yet look how many weekends he has played.

          • leslie, trump is nothing but a liar and a conman who is only in it to make himself richer.

            Trump does not give a rats ass about average Americans and he has no interest in “succeeding.”

    • Ashley, there is truth in what you say but there is much supposition and conjecture as well.

      “Which is more efficient and they know exactly where their money is going and not paying for allthe bureaucracy. ”

      We can point to several extremely efficient programs that have yielded concrete benefits to large sections of the populace: Head Start for preschoolers, school lunch programs for impoverished youth that produce students ready to learn, Medicare, to name a few. In most cases these programs would not have been possible on an individual scale, and in almost all cases the bureaucracies managing them are slim, the people dedicated, and manage with integrity.

      There are certain types of organizations that work best at the grassroots level – I volunteer for one. But I reject the notion that government organizations are inherently inefficient and corruptible. Certainly the lawmakers are, and we see that in stark relief, but far less the agencies. If they are inefficient, it is because we through our sausage makers have made them so. That’s not an excuse for eliminating the economies of scale that a well-run agency can bring.
      I do think that we have become lazy in our involvement with the bureaucracies we have created – either governmental or private. It’s important to stay involved – not only to assure yourself that large organizations can operate well, but to better understand their mission. If we do not understand what we are paying for, or voting for, we are not fufilling our role as citizens.
      Perhaps your person lucky enough to be in the 40+ tax bracket would give more if taxes were lower. History suggests otherwise. But it is also true that people more often give to support their point of view than a general good. Bill and Melinda Gates have made such mistakes in their philanthropy. Individual worldviews can’t be the only thing that drives uplift. When collective action works, it is when the whole problem is considered and the collective whole is served. I fear that when we say things like “efficiency” and “accountability”, it’s code for “objectionable”. And if that’s the case, we need to look inside ourselves for the “why”.

      • Last year there was an article about the Pentagon losing track of 7 trillion dollars over a couple of decades. Now Trump wants to take from programs meant for good and throw more money at the Pentagon – solely as we all know because he has an issue with SIZE.

        The Pentagon needs to right its own ship before more tax money is “lost track of”.

        When boots on the ground heroes do not have to go on TV to ask for help, when boots on the ground heroes do not get taken in by a phony charity, when boots on the ground heroes do not commit suicide, when boots on the ground heroes are not homeless, when boots on the ground heroes get adequate medical and mental help then they will be doing their job.

        Building up for next war while tossing away those whose lives were forever changed is heartless. What should our coutry’s priority be?

        Using tax money to pay for that ridiculous wall is heartless. Making every single thing a for-profit enterprise while making it easier to cheat American people doesn’t make sense.

        And “small government” doesn’t reach into a woman’s body and steal her voice. A world that has always attached a 100% stigma to women for something they are 50% responsible for is the one that causes more deaths not less.

        • Right Joanne. Sadly, we recently learned that some of the charities we have given to for many years to help veterans, disabled policemen, etc. were phony charities. The money we gave went into some conman’s pocket.

      • To quote Ash: “Which is more efficient and they know exactly where their money is going and not paying for allthe bureaucracy. ”

        By and large, Ash, the biggest creators of bureacracy isn’t government..it’s the corporations you so love.

        Medicare, for example, has far less bureaucratic cost than the insurance companies.

        WHen you add a profit motive to such things, Ash, you aren’t creating efficiency..you’re making it more inefficient. Having to pay higher premiums so some rich jagoff insurance company CEO can make 50 million dollars a year is far less efficient than my money going to my actual health care in which such “make as much profit as possible” aren’t in place.

        The fact that the United States spends more on health care per capita and has worse health care for it proves your argument to be BS.

    • Actually, government programs have failed because of people like you too selfish to pay the taxes that would re-distribute the wealth so that ALL needs could be met.

      One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • To quote: very generous and if their taxes weren’t 40 percent (and ever increasing under democratic presidents ) these wealthy people would give directly.

      And you are naive.

      To quote: And I think it’s time to stop judging the conservatives until you see their personal finances.

      Then stop voting for a party that ****s over average Americans all the time so they can give more fellatio to the rich.

      Sorry, if you think everything will be peaches and cream if you just cut taxes on the rich you are terribly naive. The reason all those government programs you don’t like exist is because your “charity” was not enough to cover the needs in the first place. And that is not going to change. So yes if a government program can keep, for example, senior citizens from going bankrupt and dying because of health care then that program is necessary. Because the Koch Brothers and Trump sure as hell aren’t going to take care of the people.

      The last time your party had what it wants, child, was right before the Great Depression. It was called the “gilded age” except it was only gilded if you were white, male and rich. For everyone else..it sucked. You can get down on your knees to the top few like Trump all you want, child, but you are not going to benefit from it.

      You are simply naive.

    • Cutting Meals on Wheels because “I don’t see any results?!” How about seniors still living at home, which costs a whole lot less than in horrible convalescent hospitals? When the cost of Trump’s golf vacations could fund it? Really? That’s “more efficient”? That’s what a death panel looks like.

      • Yes. I was shocked to learn that Trump wants to cut “Meals on Wheels,” which is one of the best helps available for old people who are sick, and as we say Down South, “shut in.” It is a program that depends on BOTH government funding and citizens giving their time for free to deliver the meals to old people—and in many cases where the old person lives alone–the meals on wheels volunteer is the only contact that person has with other people and the outside world for the entire week.

        Unconscionable!!!

        • I used to volunteer for meals on wheels many years ago. They gave me a route close to were i lived. The best part was spending a few minutes chatting with them and asking them how there day was. I heard so many stories and loved every minute of it. I think it is a fantastic way to get to know the people in your neighbourhood who are disadvantaged and who you don’t see around because they are shut in.

        • Charles, want to hear something sad? I could never afford Meals on Wheels because I never had enough money to spare in order to join the program. Paying for weekly meals was more than my representative payee could afford.

          Hence the reliance on the food bank where i get foods that are bad for my diabetes.

          I am so sick and tired of reading posts from conservatives with money who claim that we have to cut off services to the poor because conservatives will make up the slack.

          But none of these conservatives have sent me money via paypal or facebook. None are willing to make a regularly monthly committment to help me with groceries, a new pair of shoes, underwear.

          And I tell you, Charles, why that is. They aren’t actually willing to help people. They are willing to donate to places which will give them a tax credit.

          Which doesn’t help me buy decent groceries, shoes or underwear because if you look at 99% of the programs out there that help the poor, they only help the “deserving” poor who are the working poor with a family.

          Disabled, handicapped senior citizens are not deemed “deserving.”

    • There is no rich person (or corporation for that matter) that pays 40% in taxes. I do not know where you came up with that number, but it is wrong. Also why should they need an incentive to give donations to the least of us if they truly believe in Christs teachings.
      It has been proven that poor people give a higher percentage of their income to charity than rich people do. Trump gives nothing to Charity.
      Also , the constitution of the United States says that the government will provide for the “general welfare” of the people. Funny how all those so called strict constructionist who claim to follow the constitution always forget that part. What could be more general than food, clothing, decent housing, healthcare and a good education?
      No, the Paul Ryans of this world do not qualify as good catholics and the Pope has said as much. As for other denominations, they also do not seem to care that much about carrying out the teachings of Christ. It is all for one and that one is ME.

      • I was using approximation…35 percent the highest invidual bracket plus investment tax if they have investments 3.8 percent and the additional Medicare tax .9 percent. The investment tax and additional Medicare are only for high income individuals. So the total is approx 40. It is possible they won’t have all 3, but people can depending on their sources of income. If they have passthrough business income (partnership or s corp) on a k-1 flowing to their individual return that could also put them in the tier for the extra investment tax. Take it from a professional CPA.

  9. Once again you put in words what is in my heart. I believe that you speak truth, truth that needs to be heard. Thank you for the heavy lifting and may you continue because all of the people being left behind need you and us. With God on our side may we continue to fight for them. It is now clear that those who have been beating their chests and saying “see what a good christian I am” aren’t interested in fighting for them. Peace, Love and Resist.

    • All of you who want other people to be generous with their money have the power correct the evil you see, even if you each only make a small sacrifice. Sell some things, live more frugally, live in smaller house, drive less, etc. You big-hearted liberals have enough to alleviate much of the evil and suffering you see if you open your own wallets.

      • So do the billionaires in Trumpty Dumpty’s Cabinet. Each of them could probably all but eliminate poverty in their own hometowns if they gave away the tiniest fraction of their accumulated wealth. And I promise you they’d never notice the money had gone. Greed everywhere, GOP or Democrat, left or right is terrible – but Republicans and right-wingers have elevated it to an art form.

      • I vowed I wouldn’t do this, but sometimes you go just too far. You, sir, are a sanctimonious (fill in the blank). How the hell do you know what I give and who I give it to or how much I volunteer or have volunteered. Obviously there are a lot of you socalled Christians who are not and I repeat not doing anything. You need to look at your own soul not mine. Don’t bother answering this because I won’t get into a word war with you. Just stop your damn judgement and start looking at yourself.

          • Thanks, I can’t say I am proud of that, but there are moments when you just can’t let something slide by. I keep wondering how many billions that a person amasses becomes obscene in their eyes. I find it extraordinarily obscene for people with more money than they can possibly spend, adding to it by taking money from those with the least and then everyday people are their cheerleaders and want to help the billionaires. Anyway, obviously he stepped into one of my pet peeves. I have been where a lot of people in this country are. I have gone to bed hungry, I know what it’s like, was through no fault of my own, but if your hungry it matters not who is at fault we just need to make sure that noone else goes to bed hungry and they make me very mad. I am going to try to stop this rant. Peace, Love and Resist

      • We all do. We dedicate significant amounts of our time and money. But the question is whether we give for the greatest effect, or for the greatest consonance with our preferences. This is where an aggregating organization – NPO or government – is of benefit. It generally is structured to give for the the greatest effect.

        If we give solely from consonance with our preferences, then our philanthrophy is all about us…not about those in need.

      • Except the selfish conservative Christians have failed to do exactly these things. If the selfish conservative Christians had followed your advice to “sell some things, live more frugally, live in smaller house, drive less, etc.” then why do so many very wealthy conservative Christians have a whole lotta stuff so much so that they have to rent storage units to hold it all, own several mansions all over the country, own more cars than they need, etc?

        You want less taxes and smaller government? Then conservative Christians can “sell some things, live more frugally, live in smaller house, drive less, etc.” or the wealthiest can be taxed more so that the poorest of us may thrive.

        One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

      • we liberals do open our own wallets, ACP. You conservatives, however, look at everyone else and go “**** you, I have mine. Die.”

        Because somehow you think Trump and his ilk should own all the wealth and all the power. And you fail to realize how thoroughly you screw yourselves in that process.

        At some point, ACP, it will be you or your family’s life on the line because of your political philosophy. Pray to God there is a liberal there willing to think of you when you refuse to think of others.

        • That’s not at all what I think James.

          I think the government is greedy and misspends and misdirects and takes for itself too much of the hard earned wealth produced by productive people and I think too many people (who are able to do more on their own) have an incentive to unfairly profit by the work of others through transfers of wealth. (But I am not precluding helping the truly needy).

          • There is a big problem with how government spends tax dollars. I worked in politics and saw the wastefulness first hand.

            But, I don’t think Trump or the Republican Party is going to do anything about it. Maybe the #Resistance will produce good people who can truly reform government spending in the future.

            The problem is– many a good person gets involved in politics and after getting elected can’t turn down the extra money they get through lobbying and perks– you cannot legislate against greed .

  10. Another “look how evil and bad those Christians are” article. What a shame they are not generous, kind, and loving like us. But they’ll get theirs some day.

    I thought of a companion article for those Christians who vote in favor of abortion rights:

    The Christians Who Funded Satan

    An accompanying photograph could be that iconic image of the tiny bloody severed hand on a dime. Certainly an intentionally dismembered embryo or fetus would be more pleasing to Satan that to Christ.

    Those in the womb are the “least of these” and what we do to them we do to Jesus. So lets be consistent and care for all from conception until death and not turn our backs on the inconvenient life in the womb. I don’t believe that government is always the answer in helping solve the problems of poverty and can often exacerbate the situation, however, I will be on board with the libs in more funding if they extend their compassion to include life in the womb.

    • Very telling that you think he’s against all Christians when he’s being very specific as to whom he’s accusing. Maybe it’s because you think yours are the only Christians?

      • Of course, that’s what he thinks, Joseph Gillis. He doesn’t believe that liberals/progressives could ever possibly be Christians because we believe in social justice, that civil liberties should be extended to all citizens and that all citizens have the same equal rights as any other citizen.

        One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

        https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

      • Excuse me, he is not against Christians who vote for leftwing liberal pro-abortion politicians. He is against every other Christian.

          • You mean he is against the Christians who are fine with massively ****sucking the rich while screwing the poor and middle class over six ways to sunday. You know..the things that Jesus actually preached against. Or did you forget Matthew 25:31-46?

            Despite your delusion to the contrary, ACP, abortion is not the only issue Christians concern themselves with.

            Oh btw..the party that has done the most to lessen the number of abortions isn’t the Republicans. In fact every time they’re in charge the abortion rate goes up. It’s the Democrats. Because we’re the ones that support comprehensive sex ed and contraception and such which lowers the number of abortions. WHereas your party is fine with a 13 year old being forced to give birth to her rapists child. Your party is fine with a teen girl and guy not knowing how to protect themselves from STD’s or pregnancy. Because your party loves ignorance and hates knowledge. The states with the highest abortion rates and the highest teen pregnancy rates and the highest STD rates? Yeah..all those “Bible Belt” conservative states you so champion as to how the country should be.

            in 1981, according to CDC records, there was 1.3 million abortions. In 2013 there was just over 600k. the abortion rate was lower every year of Obama’s presidency than it was under the last 3 republican president’s. And you say liberals are the “pro abortions” people?

            Seems to me that its you Republicans. Because all your antiabortion bills are going to do is recreate what existed before Roe vs Wade..women and babies dying to back alley abortions..you want to replace a river of blood with an ocean of blood all because you want to control. You conservatives for all your talk of freedom just can’t stand it when people choose to do things you don’t like. And its not like you can in any honesty argue that if abortion is made illegal that it will *snaps fingers* disappear. Abortion has been around a very long time. It’s even mentioned in the Bible…where it’s condoned, not condemned.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States

            the best proof that your side’s stance on abortion has nothing to do with saving life and everything to do with control of sex is that your party opposes at all costs comprehensive sex and birth control…the two things that more than anything lessens the number of abortions.

            let us know, acp, when you want to actually be pro life instead of just pro sticking your hand up women’s vaginas and controlling them. Until then your hypocrisy is flagrant.

            • I and most Christians see the injustice of killing innocent life in the womb. It’s not a “Republican thing,” but right now they are the only game in town. Democrats talk about “reducing” abortions but don’t call a spade a spade. It’s murder. Calling it out for what it is will have an impact. I believe women in crisis situations should be supported as you do. If pro-lifers would do all the things you think they are not doing and support all the massive government programs you think they should, then would stand up against the slaughter of life in the womb? Would you work with us to close down Planned Parenthood’s abortion mills at that point? Or would you still fight for that precious “choice” to stop a beating heart?

              St. John Chrysostom:

              Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit? where there are many efforts at abortion? where there is murder before the birth? for even the harlot thou dost not let continue a mere harlot, but makest her a murderer also. You see how drunkenness leads to whoredom, whoredom to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather something even worse than murder. For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevents its being born. Why then dost thou abuse the gift of God, and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter? For with a view to drawing more money by being agreeable and an object of longing to her lovers, even this she is not backward to do, so heaping upon thy head a great pile of fire. For even if the daring deed be hers, yet the causing of it is thine. Hence too come idolatries, since many, with a view to become acceptable, devise incantations, and libations, and love potions, and countless other plans. Yet still after such great unseemliness, after slaughters, after idolatries, the thing [fornication] seems to belong to things indifferent, aye, and to many that have wives, too.

              -Homily 24 on Romans

              http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/earlychurchfathers/chrysostom.html

              Mother Teresa:

              “We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, of killings, of wars, of hatred. If a mother can kill her own child, what is left but for us to kill each other.”

              “By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems. And, by abortion, that father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. The father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion.”

              • WOWZA! Joe, keep it up. Quote from one THE most gynophobic, misogynistic of the Early Church Fathers ever.

                You have driven two more people to join my group. That’s a total of eighteen since 8AM

                Thanks for all your help.

                One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • What you constantly display is your lack of comprehension and ability to read Once again John’s prophetic words are aimed at a very specific group of people and because you fall into that category you try to wiggle out by the false witness that John is accusing all Christians when he has quite clearly said he was talking about “Conservative Christians”, “Republican Christians”, and supporters of the President who claim the Christian faith or call the American Conservative Church home. ”

      So you see, it is you on the conservative right who is looking into the mirror of John’s words and you hate your reflections. SO since you hate your reflections, choose to change. Choose to become caring, compassionate, generous, kind, loving people and start doing that which will alleviate needs.

      • conservative Christians are a broad group not narrrow and they comprise a diverse group of people in various denominations, countries and cultures.

        • I believe I said “John’s prophetic words are aimed at a very specific group of people.”

          In what way does that insult those conservative Christians are a broad group not narrrow and they comprise a diverse group of people in various denominations, countries and cultures?

          When John is writing about a very specific sub-set?

          • If you say so but that is not how it comes off.

            There is good and bad in every sub-set. When someone like JP makes a generalization against a sub-set of people he is then encouraging people like you to erroneously identify someone ….who is not like that…. with those characteristics. And that makes you create a stereotype. We need to break down those labels and stereotypes not reinforce them.

            As well there are many non-christians, and dare I say liberals, who do not do their part. Helping the poor is a heart thing and occurs from person to person when you see the need around you– not just when the taxes come of your pay check.

    • and yet, ACP, you don’t want to guarantee that unborn life via its pregnant mother /the right to adequate health care, income, food, shelter and such.

      You only care about that unborn life because it’s a prop for you to dictate to women. The second that unborn baby is born you don’t care about it at all. And you really don’t care about it while it’s in the womb either.

      If an insurance company, in its greed, kills that baby because it cancels his/her mother’s insurance you don’t care and you certainly don’t want to lift a finger to prevent it. If corporate pollution harms or kills that baby you don’t care..after all..corporate greed is more important to you than that baby.

      Sorry, you don’t get to consider yourself pro-life when you don’t care about that life except as it pertains to dictating to women.

      If you were really pro life, child, you would guarantee every person..every life, born or unborn, the right to adequate food, shelter, income and health care. You would guarantee everyone the requirements of life.

      And yet..you don’t. If the government can save 24 million lives by making sure they have health care you’d rather those 24 million lives die rather than the government do what your precious “free market’ and the rich refuse to do. You talk about a “good economy” but you fail to realize that we don’t have a good economy. We haven’t had a good economy ever since you conservatives pushed that supply side economics BS on the country starting with Reagan. And Paul ryan and his ilk aren’t trying to restore a “good economy.” They are trying to turn the United States into a fascist oligarchy in which the top few have all the wealth and all the power.

      You would rather get down on your knees and worship the rich than do what Christ actually taught. You would rather worship the rich than actually obey the Catholic church’s teachings.

      The Catholic church is quite clear. When the economy fails the people..it is the government’s job to fix it..it is the government’s job to fill the holes. It is the government’s job to pick up the slack.

      So no..you don’t have a Catholic perspective at all. All you have is a greedy pharisee perspective.

        • Thank you for your hard work here, ACP.

          The twenty-fifth person since 8AM this morning has joined my group. Thanks to you and other like-minded people, seventy-five new members in only three days. And the day is still young. At least here.

          Keep up the good work recruiting for my group.

          One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

          https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

          • Wow Leslie, Was this question meant to merely insult or shame or is this your version of a gentle expression of compassion from a soul that was balmed by scripture just 56 seconds ago. Awesome!

            • Wow joanne. Cant a Christian ask another Christian a moral Question ? I have no hostility about it. Im glad GMarie answered the question. And she added a cute little ‘so there ! ‘. Will you say ‘abortion is not wrong. ?

              • Of course you can comment or ask anything you want. I ask questions all the time. This would be a mighty boring place if everyone just high-fived each other.

                I am sorry you thought I was hostile. I seem to apologize a lot for my behavior. I always thought I was nice.

                I thought Gloriamarie’s answer minus the “so there” an excellent and compassionate answer that I agree with 100%. Do you agree with her statement?

                Of course I will not say abortion is not wrong because I think 99% of the time it causes pain and suffering for those who make that hard choice in addition to a death of a child. I will also add that the way this issue has been addressed since the beginning of time is horrifically wrong and has caused more needless pain, death, and suffering. You cannot fix one without fixing the other. That fact has been proven. There is no easy answer.

                Any death is horrible. How many deaths have been caused in the name of God, war, punishments and so on and so on? Yet we have different responses to many of them.

                Anyway I am not here to change anyone’s mind. Just expressing my own.

                • Joanne, the reason I ended it with a “so there” is because I felt very strongly that leslie m meant her question as bait or as a dare and I said “so there” to indicate I took the bait.

                  Please note how I very respectfully address leslie m in the manner she prefers, but as so many other abusers and bullies in these comments, disrespects me by not getting my name correct. She has been told many many times that if she finds “Gloriamarie” too laborious to type she may address me by my title, Sister, which is much shorter. But she will not show respect in either choice.

                  Of course this will spark a JoeACP rant as he delivers himself of his unfounded opinion about my religious vocation which are so unfounded as to be lies.

          • There are occasions when abortion is the only caring, compassionate, generous, kind, medically necessary, etc thing to do.

            So there.

              • I think its important to note that the only religions that approve of Abortion are Progressive Christians & Athiests.

                • I don’t think “progressive” Christians are really Christians at all. What do they believe anyway?

                  It seems more to me that their “doctrine” is liberal democrat talking points, and not much more than that. Then they call that “Christian.”

                  Anyway, that’s a good point, though someone once told me that Quakers allow for abortion, so I checked and was relieved to find this:

                  The Testimony on Equality ought to lead to a position of protection of the right to life of unborn children, as well as an understanding, through all the various insights offered by prolife feminism, of how abortion attacks the equality of women and men. The Testimony on Peace, which in theory opposes all forms of violence, ought to lead to opposition of the brutality forced upon fetal children by abortion’s sharp instruments or chemical poisons. The emphasis on reconciliation and conflict resolution should mean that there is no dismissal of the prolife movement as a right-wing scheme. Not only would a mindfulness for truth admit that there is a strong left wing to the movement and a large portion of centrists; it would preclude the dismissal of any idea merely by virtue of fitting a stereotype.

                  http://www.fnsa.org/fall98/macnair1.html

              • Joe, you know I am one of the few who like you – at least the part of you that can carry on a conversation.

                As I have said before you bring the ugly out of me which reminds me not to throw stones which I fail at sometimes.

                As to your above question, Mr. Dosher spoke of his experience a couple of times, once in response to one of your comments I think.

                You didn’t address his response so I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you either missed his response or were compassionate enough to not respond.

                You know that question is cruel. Do you really think someone who experienced that pain would confide in you or expect you to understand or even expect you to show compassion? Would you ask the person next to you at mass?

                You have no idea who has or has not had an abortion because it is none of your business even among your fellow parishioners.

                You know you have changed no one’s mind here. The only person I purposely throw stones at is Trump because in my heart he only knows how to throw stones and has done so his whole adult life

                If you are really interested in what a legitimate good negotiator acts like I can tell because I worked with many for decades.

                Someone on these comment pages said Trump was really a Democrat. If I thought that for a minute I would go tomorrow and register as an Independent.

                I hate when people pile on 1 person. I am the champion of the underdog. Yet sometimes, when you say those who do not believe exactly as you are not Christians you are doing what you accuse others of doing. That is a lazy man’s argument and pretty much pointless.

                I know you are more intelligent than that.

                Peace

                • I don’t understand your point. I wasn’t asking if anyone had an abortion and never would. I don’t want to know anyway. I was just following up on Leslie’s question and it’s a legitimate question to ask if the person who supports abortion rights grieves over who I would call the “victim” of the abortion. A general question and not implying any particular person had an abortion. And yes I did see what Dosher said and did not respond because I feel that that was something he didn’t need to share and was off limits. But the principle isn’t.

                  Thanks for being in my fan club. I’m working hard to double my fan base. How do you think I’m doing?

                  • I thought you were speaking to someone who might have had an abortion and asking if they grieved for that child.

                    For myself I grieve for every lost child and the parents who have lost a child. I am humbled by those who lose their child and go on to do wonderful things for others in their child’s name. There are so many amazing people out there.

                    As for expanding your fan club – questionable.
                    How can anyone not appreciate your sense of humor?

                    The number of other people you are accused of being expands daily.
                    Does that help?

                    Peace

                    • You’ve given me a brilliant idea! I could “for real” make up other posters and have them beg to be in my club! Then everybody else will be jealous and want to join too

                    • Yikes it just occurred to me that soon they will be saying that you are me too. Sorry….

                  • Joe, some who have an abortion grieve. Some never stop grieving. Some can let it go. Especially if they deeply believe that life isn’t life at conception. I can see both sides. One thing is for sure, abortion will really become a huge issue if plans to drastically cut help for the poor go through. I think that what’s happening in too many places in the world, where mothers can’t feed their babies and have to watch them die is far worse than abortion. Aborted babies are far better off with God than being born into a world which only thinks they have a responsibility to make sure babies are born. That’s cruel. So I don’t even want to discuss changing the status of abortion to be even more restrictive until Pro Life really means Pro Life, from beginning to end.

                  • Joe, Not a brilliant idea. Bad very bad.

                    I think you were right a couple of weeks ago. This isn’t the place for me. These last couple of weeks. I can’t take the carnage. It is how I imagine I would feel watching a slasher movie. I like movies that have a happy ending.

                    I hope you can enjoy good things in your life.

                    Peace

  11. I understand your point Ashley but, we know from even recent history that when they sell it as a “middle class” tax break – we all know who gets the biggest breaks. Do they think we are all stupid. The last time these big breaks happened did the wealthy spend more for the “others”. No, they didn’t create jobs, they didn’t invest in their country – they put in in their pocket or sent it overseas or spent it on themselves which they have every right to do. They became wealthier and the gap between the haves and the have nots widened.

    There have always been the very wealthy who are known for giving to charities. You have to applaud them because their millions can do so much more than my $50 or $25 donations. Trump has never mentioned anything about making donations deductible. He said he was going to make it super simple.

    And I do believe people who have less give what they can. If you have had to watch your pennies and do without you know that those with even less need help.

    I don’t know what the answer is . Depending on those who have more to do more doesn’t always work. Many do but just as many only want more money for themselves. I have always said there are angels among us who quietly do good and wonderful things every day. They just can’t do it by themselves.

    • Progressivism rose to prominence through the actions of early 20th century Republicans…who were raised to believe that those granted power and wealth had an obligation to use it for good. And, also, giving back was also good for business. Now we seem to have forgotten that.

      • You are right. They have forgotten! The excuse seems to be they already have a high tax burden. I just saw a tax return the person gave .005 of his net to charity. He made 1.2 million net. But he paid 800,000 in taxes. So thats the reality they face. But in my opinion they still could give way more directly! It could be the answer is not through higher and higher taxes, which seems to be an issue, the answer may be to petition them to give to causes directly. Way more effective!

        • ash, you can cut taxes on the rich all you want..but there is no guarantee they will be more charitable. We have spent the last 40 years doing nothing but cutting taxes on the rich and on the corporations.

          And the result? The middle class is dying and the poor are poorer.

          To quote: It could be the answer is not through higher and higher taxes,

          We have had 40 years of that philosophy of yours, Ash, and it has been an abject failure. You do not have the answer.

          The answer is higher taxes. Why? Because it forces the top few to actually disgorge all that wealth they’re sitting on. The proof? From 1947-1979 the poor and the middle class had higher income growth than the rich. Since 1981..since the rise of Reagan and supply side economics the only ones with income growth in this country are the already rich.

          Your supply side economics is utter BS and an utter failure. Your “lets cut taxes on the rich” has only made the rich richer and screwed the rest of us over.

          So enough is enough, Ash.

            • Kudos to you, ACP, for every word you write… Thanks to you and the people here like you, ten more people have joined just this morning.

              One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

              https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

            • Oh look, the old “taxes are theft” talking point. I know you’d get around to it sooner or later, sparky. I hope you enjoy building your own roads and bridges. Or might I suggest emigration to Somalia? No taxes, but also no government outside of Mogadishu. You would think it heaven, except for the warlords.

            • Theft is a crime defined by law. Taxation is the right and duty of any government that cares about its people—all of its people. This Republican mantra that taxation is theft is immoral and reprehensible propaganda developed and implemented by evil men and women. By the way Joe—FU.

              • I didn’t say all taxes are. It’s the idea that just because someone has some extra money lying around that someone feels entitled to it and that the government should go after it (so HE benefits). That’s a theft mentality.

                Thanks for the love. Cue Kathy B to give your a thumbs up for the “FU.”

            • Let them take their hard earned money wherever they want to. They are sufficiently taxed. Even if you could rob them of all their assets, there wouldn’t be that much to spread around. I would rather see the rich spend put their money in the private sector than with an inefficient, wasteful, and greedy bureaucracy.

              Why don’t you guys in “the resistance” put your money where your mouths are? Why don’t you all pool your resources and and make some sacrifices and demonstrate that you can be compassionate with your own money?

              • Thank you for the twentieth new member since 8AM this morning.

                Your hard work is sure paying off.

                One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

                https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

                • Except, acp, they are not doing the work…we are. And they are not “spreading their wealth in the private sector” they are hoarding it onto themselves.

                  So it’s time you deal with reality instead of your fantasy.

                  • The sad thing is, James Kessler, every post I write about what it is like to live in poverty in the USA is pretty much ignored.

                  • They aren’t putting dollar bills in mattresses. Their money is being used in the economy in some way. But what right do you have to make a claim in it? It’s theirs and not yours.

                    Why don’t you be generous with your own money instead of trying to force people to be generous with theirs?

    • I appreciate your comments! But depends what you call a break for the wealthy. So if they are already paying 40 percent and it gets lowered to 35. They call that a bigger break than if a middle bracket goes from 28 to 25. The rich are already paying more percentage and that has always been….so not really a break. It’s the way they word it. But I get you, that there are selfish rich people as well!!! Yes if they simplify the tax code to totally eliminate donations there won’t be any incentive, and that I don’t agree with. So good point there! Personally I don’t think they will simplify like they say , very hard to even get one tax bill passed!

      • Other nations with higher rates consider us a tax haven. Our EFFECTIVE rates are some of the lowest in the developed world. So you know what you can do with your Fox News talking points.

        • Correct. Other European countries the middle class pay roughly 30-40 percent and it’s higher than that for upperclass. They have to cover everything that is government run…..from health insurance to determining who gets healthcare first because they have only so much government resources. Just curious, are their poverty rates lower with the higher taxes? Is their poverty lower with all the government run programs? Something to think about. A true example of why more government does not equal a better society or less poverty per economics and free market theory.

          • Well Ash, Sweden’s poverty rate is 5%. the United States poverty rate is nearly 3 times that.

            To quote: .from health insurance to determining who gets healthcare first

            no..they all have health care. Whereas in this country only those who can afford it have health care.

            When Eisenhower was President the top tax rate on the rich was 95%. So I have to ask, Ash, since their tax rate is less than a third of that (much less than a third of that in actuality) when have we cut their taxes enough?

            There has been no deliverance of economic prosperity and jobs for the rest of us with the 40 years of cutting taxes on the rich you conservatives have been promising.

            So when is enough enough? When will you recognize that your precious supply side economics is a failure?

            To quote: A true example of why more government does not equal a better society or less poverty per economics and free market theory

            No what we going on the last 40 years is a true example of why less government does not equal a better society or less poverty.

            • Swedens poverty rate is lower because the calculation is based on 50 percent below median income of that country. Median income is higher in u.s. almost double. Median income 2015 in u.s. was $56k. Swedens was $27k in dollar currency. So there is going to be less poverty because the poverty level is at a lower level. More people would qualify as poor.

              Not to mention the tax rate for Sweden for even working class is 51 percent. Just looked it up.

              What I meant by the healthcare was even though it is universal, wait times and such exist. You may have to wait 6 months for a surgery due to lack of resources/funding from government to that specific healthcare area. There are issues with allocation of resources.

              One time a family had a foreign exchange student from one of the Nordic countries wish I could remember where! and she expressed her concerns over the high taxes for everyone and universal healthcare there and how low to middle class aren’t really being lifted up and how the u.s. system is better.

              So until Sweden can actually surpass the u.s. in a comparative poverty level, we can agree to disagree.

              I do appreciate you debating this! It needs to be discussed so much!

              • To quote: What I meant by the healthcare was even though it is universal, wait times and such exist. You may have to wait 6 months for a surgery due to lack of resources/funding from government to that specific healthcare area.

                And you don’t think there is waiting times here? Really? Because I had to wait two years for my insurance company to clear a surgery I needed. They did everything possible short of kicking me off insurance so they didn’t have to pay for the surgery. So would you like to try again?

                If everyone has health care in sweden, even with waiting times, versus here where not everyone has health care and there is still waiting times for those that do…do you really want to try arguing that Sweden is worse?

                People in the United States pay more per capita for health care than the other western industrialized countries and our health care system, unless you’re rich, is worse than those other countries. the drug Campath, for example, is priced as follows: United States: $2,400 France: $760 Sweden $660 Britain $570 Italy $500

                Because of the “free market” Mylan corp, which had absolutely no hand in developing the epipen, was able to jack the price of the epipen by six fold in one day. This despite the fact that the epipen was developed for and by the US government with US taxes. PharmaBro’s company, Turing, was able to jack the price of Daraprim by several thousand percent. This despite the fact that his company had no hand in developing Daraprim..that drug was developed more than 60 years ago.

                To quote: Swedens poverty rate is lower because the calculation is based on 50 percent below median income of that country. Median income is higher in u.s. almost double. Median income 2015 in u.s. was $56k. Swedens was $27k in dollar currency. So there is going to be less poverty because the poverty level is at a lower level. More people would qualify as poor.

                Not to mention the tax rate for Sweden for even working class is 51 percent. Just looked it up.

                yeah here’s the problem with your argument that you conveniently ignore. In sweden they get, for those taxes, health care, education including college, a expansive safety net, etc.

                So yes..they pay more in taxes..but they get more for those taxes. Here we pay less taxes but we have to pay in addition to those taxes to greedy ass corporations for things that the swedes don’t. If I have to pay an extra, for example, $1000 in taxes to have guaranteed health care that is still far cheaper than the $5000 I have to pay my insurance company every year..and unlike in Sweden, my insurance company can kick me off insurance. Even if i had to pay $5000 dollars in taxes for guaranteed health care under a single payer system that still means I am coming out ahead than what I would get here. Because here my health care exists at the nonexistant mercy of a bunch of greedy corporate jackasses who have no problem in putting their profit ahead of my life. Paul Ryan wants my insurance company to be able to either jack my premiums through the roof or kick me off insurance because I was born with the “preexisting condition” of one functioning kidney. That wouldn’t happen if we had single payer.

                WHen you did your figuring there, Ash, you conveniently forgot to include the cost of the “free market” here.

                Oh btw, child, care to guess which country has the richest middle class? I’ll buy you a clue. It isn’t the United States.

                That would be Canada..despite their higher taxes than the United States.

                All your side’s “cutting taxes and less government” has done is concentrate nearly all the wealth in the hands of the top few. Your precious supply side economics is nothing but a massive income redistribution from the middle class into the hands of the rich. The result is an out of balance economy that will sooner rather than later crash in a way that will make the Great Depression look tame.

                So, Ash, unless you’re a member of the top few, which I doubt, you are really only betraying your own economic interests by peddling that supply side economics bs of yours.

                • An american earning $50,000 pays $50 in taxes for food stamps.

                  That same American pays at least $5000 in taxes that goes to welfare for the rich and corporations.

                  And your party wants to cut the food stamps.

                  Because this is the operating mantra of the GOP and has been since Nixon: In this world only the fittest survive. If you’re strong (rich) you live, if you’re weak (not rich) you die.

                  Its how your party can “justify” kicking 24 million people off insurance just so it can give corporate executives at health insurance companies a multi billion dollar tax cut.

                  Its how your party can “justify” spending 3 million dollars every weekend so Trump can go golfing and increase the military budget on a military that we already spend more on than the next 30 countries combined while cutting funding to the EPA, the NEA, the CPB and various other programs that the poor and the middle class depend on.

                  Its how your party justifies deregulating Wall Street so they can steal our money.

                  Its how your party justifies trying to privatize the medicare that my 80 year old father with Atrial Fib, diabetes and three hip replacements and a family history of parkinsons and cancer depends on. My father busted his ass working far harder putting food on your table than Trump or Paul Ryan or the Koch brothers ever did or even ever thought of and its them you seek to reward while screwing over my father.

                    • Kathleen, There was no reply button under your remark. I am sorry I did not realize or remember what state you lived in.

                      Isn’t it amazing that 2 Republicans one who wears his Christian badge proudly stuck the taxpayers with a bill for what – 700 workers while other jobs flee. A hypocrite and a snake oil salesman.

                      I am sure the hundreds of workers whose jobs you are subsidizing appreciate it – although they are subsidizing their own jobs too.

                      How can any resident of your state respect Pence since he left the state he stuck the bill with?

                      I am so sorry.

                    • I am a very small minority in this state. I get tired have to apologize for the discrimination under the guise of religious freedom that Pence gave us. I live in a very rural area and every winter we lose our mailbox. This has happened since we put Obama signs in front of our place. Hm, I wonder if that is why they take out our mailbox. This used to be heavy KKK country. The grand dragon at one time lived in Indiana. I thought things had changed, I have lived here for 50+ yrs, husband is from here, but I see us going backwards. We used to have both Rep and Dems now half the offices only have Reps running. Maybe someone needs to do a study or something. Anyway, it can be depressing and than I am reminded that Indianapolis sends a Black Muslim to the house of reps. So there is hope. Peace,

                    • So the Republicans in your state liked the idea of adding to your tax burden to save jobs? I thought they wanted less taxes?

                    • They want jobs and no taxes and that’s what the Rep tell them they will get if they vote for them, than the fat cats get the lower taxes and the jobs leave. Regular folks got screwed but I doubt that will make any difference in their voting. They have bought into the idea that they are the true christians and those coastal elites are the enemy. Go figure….

                  • Thank, James Kessler

                    A family of one, with an income of just over $1000 a month gets a princely $20 a month in SNAP benefits.

                    The SNAP budget is a whopping 3% of the present federal budget.

                    The DOD spent way more than the SNAP budget on a jet fighter before giving up trying to make a design work that never could.

                    How many hungry people could that $ have fed?

                    It is waste like this on the part of the DOD and that $7 trillion they’ve lost track of that are the drain on the budget, not the measly 3% that is for SNAP

                  • Post an example of “welfare for the rich” and how it those tax dollars from someone making $50,000 are transferred to them.

                    • Example: carried interest is treated as capital gains instead of ordinary income — a form of welfare for the rich so egregious that *Donald Trump* is for closing the loophole. Someone making $50k a year pays a 25% marginal tax rate and the top capital gains rate is 20%. So yeah, the worker earning $50k a year just transferred 5% of his paltry income in order to keep the loophole open for the Private Equity guy who made $12 million in management fees last year.

              • We can’t really compare ourselves to Sweden.

                They have a population of 10million, their whole country can fit inside the state of Texas, and their population is completely homogeneous. (93% white).

            • Read my comment. A foreign exchange student and her family were wanting to be us! and they were not rich! What is the reward for the rich again??? That they made businesses and reinvested in them so they should pay more? I’m with you drastic cuts on the rich can’t be good. But I believe continuing to tax them more and more is not either and will start to stifle technology, innovation, research, etc. and lead to even slower economic growth and more poverty.

              • Ash, the United States became the leader of the free world and the most powerful economy and the most scientifically advanced country precisely WHEN taxes on the rich were high.

                Since your party started cutting taxes on the rich the United States is losing its place. Other countries are becoming economically stronger and more technologically innovative and such. Why? Because those countries are making investments in the people. And they are doing it with taxes. You and your party don’t want to.

                Trump is cutting funding to the NIH and CDC. That means less money for cancer research, less money into parkionsons, less money into research on AIDs. He is cutting funding for scientific grants.

                All so he can give the rich a tax cut that they don’t need.

                To quote: What is the reward for the rich again??? That they made businesses and reinvested in them so they should pay more?

                That they became richer. But they shouldn’t be the only ones getting ahead and for 40 years they are the only ones getting ahead. You can double the tax rate on the rich, and they will still be rich and they will be getting richer. Quit treating them like victims, they’re not. They don’t need your protection. For the love of God, ash, enough with your “I’m a temporarily displaced rich person.”

                You’re not. You can cut taxes on the rich all you want, Ash, and you will never benefit from it. You will never be like them. So quit selling out your own economic interests just because Trump and the other top few cry “Oh we’re so put upon for being rich!”

                For forty years we have done nothing but cut taxes on the rich and the poor and the middle class have suffered for it.

                Enough is enough.

                • And the government has had just as many years to correct poverty through programs and I don’t see an improvement either. My whole point is I don’t see the taxing more and more as translating to a decrease in poverty. And I don’t think you can pinpoint when America was the greatest as there are way too many factors like the world economy, wars we decided to fight, etc that all influenced the economy. I think that is arbitrary. But thank you and your points are all well taken! And yes I’m done:)

                    • Ashley and Leslie,

                      You say you have not seen an improvement in poverty but all of us have seen the rich get richer, a bigger gap between the have and the have nots and a smaller middle class from Republican policies.

                      Let us agree that government is bloated. Will you agree also that government is so big that is like a huge ship that must take slow turns to stay upright?

                      Do you actually think that whacking and chopping at the arms legs and torso is the way to shrink it? Or do you think like Bannon that chaos is good. That we must destroy what was?

                      I wonder if Congress’s pension is the same as every government worker. If it is they might be surprised when drawing their pension down the road the amount might shrink because too many drawing not enough putting in to it.

                      I would think a logical plan of attrition with a small percentage of layoffs extended over years would be the logical way to go.

                      How about you?

                      Trump might have to call those jobs reports fake again when he adds to the number of unemployed when once again we have a recession and there are no magical jobs created by lowering taxes and gutting regulations. Where are all the taxpayers then?

                    • Joanne, I live in Mr Pence’s Indiana. They have announced that there are thousands of jobs going south. Even the ones that they, 45 and the vp, bragged prior to the election that they had saved. Three different firms are either closing or downsizing. It has begun. Somehow all these people will blame Obama for it. It amazes me how they can sell their lies. Peace, Love and Resist.

              • Evidently, you fail to grasp the fundamental difference between making assertions in a vicious nature and the asking of a question to get more information.

                The fact is, you read every single word here as if it were addressed to you and because you go looking for something which to disagree, you find offence when none is aimed at you.

                If it bothers you to be called an abuser, a bully, and a troll, the solution rests with you to change the way you communicate here.

                I remember at Christmas you apologized for letting your temper rule you and failing to post as s Christian gentleman.

                Perhaps it is time to remind you that one of the Seven Deadly Sins is anger.

      • Ashley, the top few are swallowing 95% of the income growth and have been for the last 40 years.

        They don’t need a break. And considering when Eisenhower was President their top tax rate was 95%..they’ve had their taxes cut, by your own admission, by near 60%.

        If the top few want to swallow that much of the income growth and that much of the wealth then they can damn well pay a higher tax rate. If they want a lower tax rate they can stop being such greedy bastards. One should reward good behavior..not massively greedy bastards.

        • Amen, James Kessler. And not only that. Let’s look at what they do and don’t do with their wealth.

          Have they alleviated hunger in the USA?

          Have they alleviated homelessness in the USA?

          Have they provided unlimited medical care for all of the sick in the USA?

          Have they made sure everyone in the USA has adequate clothing?

          Have they taken steps that every public school system in the USA has the same resources, the same excellent teachers, the same quality textbooks and that each student has enough back-to-school supplies?

          I am certain that is just the tip of the iceberg. If conservative, Republicans Christians had just unclenched their tight fists and seen to it that the needs of all USians were met, then there would be no need of higher taxes on those who could most afford to pay them and no need for big government.

          What Republican and conservative Christians have to realize that high taxes and big government is their own fault. As private citizens they failed to meet the needs and so the government was forced to take over.

          When did that happen? After the economics of the Republican party put the economy into one tailspin after another.

        • Thank you! Yes we differ on what is considered a break….dollars or a percentage! Totally get your point! But the whole point is do higher taxes and government help poverty? How do we know their lower taxes than 95 percent are swallowing growth or the poor? See my comment about the European countries. It’s an economic debate for sure!

          • Ash, from 1947 to Reagan the middle class and the poor had higher income growth percentages than the rich. Since Reagan the only ones with income growth is the rich.

            That by itself proves your argument BS .

            TO quote: but the whole point is do higher taxes and government help poverty?

            Well lets see. Medicare guarantees all senior citizens health care. And social security guarantees a basic income. Paid for, largely, by the government via taxes. Before medicare and SS 75% of all senior citizens were living in abject poverty and dying for lack of health care.

            You can wave your magic wand of “charity” all you want but the simple fact, Ash, is that charity will never be enough. The solution is three fold. Charity, government action and oh yeah..rebalancing the economy so everyone, not just the rich, are getting ahead.

            The rich have been getting fabulously richer over the last 40 years.

            They don’t need tax cuts. Tax cuts will not solve a damn thing. We have had 40 years of the rich getting nothing but tax cuts and it has not worked.

            So, Ash, quit peddling what hasn’t worked.

            You can give a billionaire a 400 million dollar tax cut and they are not going to “trickle it down” via paying people more or hiring more people. Trickle down is a failure. Its time to put the money in the hands of the people who will actually spend it and spend it here..that would be the poor and the middle class. You grow an economy via demand. And you grow demand by the people having money to spend.

            I would suggest you watch this. It’s Nick Hanauer’s TED talk. Nick Hanauer, if you don’t know, was one of the principal investors in Amazon. So he’s one of the rich you so want to give a tax cut to.

            Here is what he says about your thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI

            Your party’s policies are unbalancing the economy, Ash. It is making the country weaker. It is tipping the country towards fascist oligarchy. What’s going to happen if your party’s economic policies aren’t stopped will make the Great Depression look like an off day at a church bake sale.

            • And what will happen when we continue to raise the debt again and again over more government involvement…that may also be our demise. Thanks for the perspective and mentioning the video!

            • Soooo people would have more money to spend with tax cuts, right? Especially the lower and middle class! Pretty sure giving people money through government programs does not help them spend more!

              • WHAT tax cut? Even if I actually got one, I might be able to buy a Happy Meal with it. Yeah, real prosperity there, sweetie. Meanwhile, the 1% takes their tax cuts to the Cayman Islands where it does no one any good, even themselves. They don’t trickle it down in business investment, because why start businesses which will have no customers?

                • Let us also remember that the people living on Social Security got a whomping $5/month increase in their Social Security after getting a zero increase in 2016, despite the fact that the cost of living did indeed go up.

                  The GOP have evilly convinced people of the whackadoodle notion that Social Security is a line item on the budget and affects the national debt while ignoring the truth that Social Security is a self-funded program created by an Episcopalian woman.

              • “Pretty sure giving people money through government programs does not help them spend more!”

                OK this is absurd on its face:

                a) The vast majority of the tax cut dollars are going to wealthy people (like me — see previous post) who end up saving a ton of it.

                b) While poor and middle class people will probably spend most of their tax cuts, most poor people (and many “middle class” people) don’t pay any federal income tax in the first place so giving them a “tax cut” is the same thing as me offering to give you free gas *only* if you own a Ferrari. If you have a Ferrari, then yeah, you are pretty excited about that! But chances are you don’t have one, so no free gas for you.

                b) Almost 100% government programs go to spending — either poor people spending money on food, housing, etc. and government spending on services which employ people. Regardless, the surest way to get money spent and goes INTO the economy to make it get spent is to give it to people who don’t have their basic needs met, because they will spend 100% of it.

                In any case, I really, really need you to STOP speaking in defense of my family’s paycheck. I am horrified that this form of Stockholm Syndrome has millions of people who have a fraction of my wealth vainly hoping that if they give me *more* wealth that I will go start a business or donate to a charity that will help lift them out of poverty.

                But let me say this: If all you right wing “Christians” insist on that giving me and my husband a tax cut, you should know that 100% of it is going to go straight to ACLU, Planned Parenthood, Southern Poverty Law Center, NAACP, and candidates for office that will reverse such egregious and unChristian tax policy.

                  • Joe, I swear you bring out the worst in me. I have been reading your words today.

                    Every time you make your blanket statements you bear false witness. You must wear a hole in the kneeler.

                    Weeks ago California was in state a state of emergency from flooding. People were being evacuated.

                    An Anonymous posted something snarky about California asking for Trump’s help. I responded to Anonymous stating that California is one of the states who send more to federal government and one of the states who gets the least back. I also stated that every time a state has a crisis I always donate. And I do give to the Red Cross for other things as well. I do this because this is my country.

                    Your first reaction was to give a verbal high-five to Anonymous. So back at you d”OMG you think political snark being your first response to a state having a crisis is “Christian”?” There might have been pregnant women in harm’s way. But who cares? Your “Christian” words are empty and small.

                    We give as much as we can to several charities.
                    We live very very simply and I have always believed in leaving a small footprint.

                    Maybe you should come by and check out our finances to see if we give enough and live simply enough. You might be surprised.

                    You might like my neighbor – every day he sits in his garage and listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. If I open our slider to let in a breeze it is faux outrage all day every day.

                    • Sorry but you don’t feel the effects of this hostile environment like I do. You don’t have people personally attacking you and insulting you. You don’t have your own personal harrasser following you around and butting into every conversation and lying about you, or another one who follows that one like a puppy dog egging and egging them on.

                      If you did, you might be a little more blunt and harsh too.

                      That post wasn’t directed at you anyway. You and I could have a civil and friendly disagreement. Many here do not want that. They prefer hostility.

                    • And if that post came across as harsh, that was not my intention. I was just trying to let you know that when rocks are being tossed at you, sometime it’s necessary to play a little rough too, though I prefer not to.

                      You make aggravating posts too about Trump, but I don’t take them personally. Please don’t take mine personally. That’s not my intention.

                    • Joe I am fine with you. I look for the good always.

                      Yes, I say mean things about Trump. I have really tried and looked for one thing to show me he is a decent man. I have really never reacted to anyone this strongly.

                      We will just have to agree to disagree on his merits as a man. If he does something good for this whole country that will be good.

                  • I never mentioned anything about donating to an abortion mill. That is inflammatory rhetoric that you chose to gin outrage. It is not actually about seeking to understand or to be understood.

                    I am an avowedly pro-life Liberal (a tough thing to be!). But instead of falling into the fact-free hysteria that conservative pro-lifers espouse, I take a calm and factual and practical approach to doing what actual honest-to-God evidence shows is the clearest path to reducing abortion: providing birth control. This is what “Planned” refers to.

                    I get that you are outraged at the number of abortions and you want them to stop. I don’t doubt your moral conviction in this. But your outrage strikes me as kind of comical since you don’t make a peep about how our collective failure to provide prenatal care to mothers who desperately want their babies but can’t afford healthcare has led to the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. I notice that you were more concerned about people being generous with my money than you were about honoring my desire to make sure my tax dollars go to providing healthcare (and subsequently prenatal care ) to save the lives of unborn children. The cognitive dissonance of that contradiction makes it very hard to take your larger claim to being “pro-life” seriously.

                    If you want to talk about how we can work towards a shared goal of reducing abortion, I am willing and open to talk anytime. But if you just want to be outraged by my liberal existence, or all the places we disagree, then I’m afraid you may feel better about not consorting with me, but you won’t have prevented a single abortion.

                    I can tell you feel persecuted for your beliefs because of some other things you wrote in this thread, but I am a lot closer to you on this one than you might imagine.

                    • My apologies. That comment I made was uncalled for. I was frustrated about something and took it out on you. Thank you for your thoughtful explanation.

                    • well lets clear up another misconception of yours, child.

                      I am not excited at the prospect of an abortion.

                      I think your “pro life” crowd is hypocritical. And I think there are better ways to deal with abortions than trying to make it illegal. Lets remember what happened when “moral crusaders” such as yourselves managed to outlaw booze. Comprehensive sex ed and contraception have done more to lessen the number of abortions than your side’s screeching has ever accomplished. Your sides screeching is really just so y’all can get up on your soapboxes and appear morally superior and pat yourselves on the backs for it.

                      You can make abortion illegal all you want but it won’t go away. It will not end in that fashion. So all your “making it illegal” accomplishes is ensure that the unborn and their mothers are dying in back alley abortions.

                      As for the hypocrisy..considering your side does not see fit to ensure that pregnant mothers have adequate food, shelter, income and health care to ensure that their babies grow up healthy then really how do you think you’re pro life?

                      Why should anyone listen to your side when it claims to be “pro life” when you are fine with that life, born and unborn, dying in means other than abortion? You want the government to make decisions for women on the subject of abortion..you want government to step in and save that life when it comes to abortion..but you don’t want government to step in and save the life of the unborn if it means ensuring the mother has adequate food, shelter, income and health care. Nor do you want government to step in and save the life of the unborn if it means interfering in corporate profit and stopping corporate pollution.

                      And you certainly don’t want government acting to protect the lives of the already born on those things.

                      Like I said before..you are not prolife. You are pro forced birth. That baby doesn’t mean a damn thing to you..it’s simply the prop you’re using to try and control women and their sex lives. As long as the woman doesn’t have an abortion you don’t give a rats ass about the life of the unborn, its mother or the rest of us.

                      That is not pro life no matter how much you want to claim different.

                      Back in 2004 a Catholic nun by the name of Sister Joan Chittister said this: “I do not believe that just because you’re opposed to abortion that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don’t? Because you don’t want any tax money to go there. That’s not pro-life. That’s pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.”

                      She is absolutely dead right. http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript346_full.html

                • Sorry if that was confusing…..to clarify, if you get money from welfare and then spend it, I think of it as a wash since it came from the government in the first place. It’s not really stimulating the economy per se. But yes if they had a job and are poor or in the working class they will spend and stimulate the economy!

              • “Pretty sure giving people money through government programs does not help them spend more!”

                Well, I would spend more. I’d buy a pair of shoes as I haven’t been able to buy a new pair in seven or eight years. I’d buy new underwear as I haven’t been able to buy that in seven or eight years. I’d buy better quality food, an issue as I have diabetes.

                My sole source of income is Social Security as I was deemed disabled a while ago now. My expenses are rent, Universal Lifeline landline, electric and gas, prescription co-pays, $10/m gas so I can get to doctor’s visits, car insurance, groceries, and minimum toiletries. After these are paid my representative can put nineteen cents a month into a savings account for me.

                Please don’t tell me to ride the bus and save on the car because riding the handicapped bus to all my appointments and to see my 92-year-old mother would cost an additional $3000.00 a year I don’t have.

                So, yeah, if I got money through a government program, you can be sure I’d spend more. Might spend money on something just for fun.

                And before you say something obnoxious about having cable service at home, let me forestall you by telling you that my upstairs neighbors have allowed me to use their wifi. And the only reason I have a laptop is because someone gave it to me about five years ago. It was four years old then and if it had been a PC would probably be toast by now. But even a sturdy Mac has a life expectancy.

                  • Ordinarily, I skip reading anything posted by an anonymous because too many of them are trolls and one in particular is my personal troll.

                    I can’t live with my mother because she requires too much care that I am unable to give her because I am disabled and handicapped. She is in assisted living where she gets much better care than I am able to give.

                    • Okay, that makes sense. It just seemed like an obvious way to save money, but I see that’s impossible. Thank you.

          • Thanks to posts like this a whopping 16 people have joined my group since 8AM this morning.

            Thank you for making my group grow.

            One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

      • Again they ARE NOT paying 40%. Stop lying about this. Warren Buffet only pays 17% and he is one of the richest men in America. His secretary on the other hand pays 34%.
        It is the middle class who pay the most in taxes percentage wise. NOT the rich.
        And as noted by many others here, the trickle down economy does not work. It is actually the SUCK UP economy and now they want to make sure they suck the river dry and leave all of the rest of us dying of thirst.

        • They aren’t? I am a professional CPA. Not all will. But highest bracket of 35 percent plus an investment tax of 3.8 and a .9 additional Medicare tax. Some of the rich won’t have all 3 depending on their source but some will. And you are right about capital gains are lower at around 15-20. So that also plays into the calculation. Im not a proponent of a tax on cap gains being that low for the wealthy! But speaking from experience most returns I do that are wealthy don’t have all their income from capital gains. A lot of them are CEOs or business owners.

  12. John P, once again I must thank you for saying exactly what has to be said.

    People are going to hate hearing this exactly as the people in Israel and Judah hated the messages of the prophets that God sent them. The people of Israel and Judah refused to re-distribute the wealth and where did it get them? The Assyrians deposited the Ten Lost Tribes along the Silk Road and those Jews assimilated into the predominant culture and were lost to Judaism. The rest were carted off to Babylonia to bewail their misfortunes that they had brought down on themselves. And when they returned to Israel and the Jerusalem they so longed for, they ignored the words of Jesus and were kicked out of Israel again.

    People who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    Welcome to history, conservative, Republican Christians.

    One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

  13. Let me answer this question of yours:

    “If feeding and caring for people is indeed the sole role of the Church and not the Government, why are so many people still starving, still hurting? You’ve been open for business for 2,000 years now—supposedly the business of reflecting the character of Jesus and replicating his life. How much longer is it going to take?”

    The answer is basic to Christian doctrine. We live in a fallen and sinful word in battle against the forces of evil led by Satan. When Christ came he ushered in the era of the Kingdom of God but that kingdom has not yet been fulfilled. It is our duty as Christians to be Christ to the world as best we can and do the work of building the kingdom by doing things like feeding the hungry and clothing the poor. But we are not perfect in this. We are subject to sin and temptation and we fail often. Even if we somehow manage to build a society based on Christian values that makes great strides in alleviating many of these problems (as we have in America) there will always be the forces of evil ready to destroy what we have accomplished. So the direct answer to your question is we don’t know how long it will take because it will only happen when Christ returns in his glory to fulfill the kingdom he established in his first coming and, as he told us, no one knows when that will be (Matt 24:36).

  14. Nine Steps to Understanding the Religion Called “Christianity”

    1) Christ appears on earth and tells the Jews over and over again that they had no idea who the one true God is. If they want to know the true nature of the one true God, look at Him!! “Ye have not known Him, but I know Him”. If Christ had given the Jews the tiniest indication that He was in any way related to their god they would have accepted Him as their messiah, He didn’t! So they didn’t!
    2) The power and wealth of the organized church has always been founded upon its role as middleman between the individual and an angry, vindictive god that threatens to punish the sinner with eternal hell.
    3) Christ presented a threat to the very existence of the organized church. Christ was not angry, intolerant, violent, vindictive or feared, and the last thing He wanted was to be worshiped. His true disciples are those who follow in His footsteps. There’s no need for a middle man to grant forgiveness or to build billion dollar places of worship for Him. Based on His teachings Christ would prefer for the billions of dollars to be used to feed the hungry and heal the sick.
    4) As a result of being a heretic, Christ was executed. After His execution anyone who stood up and said..”but Christ told us we had no idea who the one true God really is”, was certainly stoned to death.
    5) For the Jews who followed Christ, a more palatable explanation for His appearing on earth was apparent, Yom Kippur, where an animal is slaughtered as a sacrifice to god and the people’s sins are removed via a scapegoat. God loves it when we kill something for him, so to show us how much he loves us he sent his son so we could kill him, so all our sins would be washed away. Makes sense, right? Huh?
    6) Interesting as it is, on the cross Christ’s last words were not … “and this fulfills my Father’s promise to forgive your sins and and give you a life everlasting”, …but .. “forgive them Father because they have no idea what they are doing”!
    7) So forget about everything Christ taught about the loving and compassionate way in which we’re supposed to treat all other human beings, He just said those things to anger the religious establishment to the point they would have Him killed.
    8) So thank god we can now ignore all that nonsense that Christ preached in order to get Himself killed, we have saved the angry, intolerant, violent and vindictive god that we so very much depend upon to do what we really want to do.
    9) As a result we have the Falwells, Huckabees, Grahams, Pences, Bakers and Cruzes who can proclaim their “Christianity” by simply saying Christ died for their sins (the Nazis did the same), and to whom all life is precious, except for the millions who die from lack of health care, starvation, gun violence or being incinerated when carpet bombed until their sand glows white! Praise god!

    • Alan Miller, while you accurately describe those who worship Christianity over and above God, there are still those of us who seek to follow Jesus and serve as He still tells us to.

      I have a FB group in which you might be interested called “Celebrate What Christians Have in Common” where many voices from the many flavors of Christianity are posted to remind us every day that what we have in common is Jesus and that we must follow Jesus, even at the expense of losing our churches.

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/1409874399270377/?ref=group_cover

    • Basically, Alan, the right wants salvation, but not at the expense of following the teachings of the Messiah who gave it to them. Thus Jesus becomes a totem whose ONLY value was the passion and resurrection; His teaching may be discarded because (to them) it is not important, indeed inconvenient and even repulsive. Jesus tells them to not pray in public, and to them, Tim Tebow became a hero by taking his prayer knee in front of stadia full of football fans, directly and intentionally violating His teachings on the subject. But that’s okay, because “Ah Assepted Jayzus Crasst as Mah Lord n’ Sayvyer!!!1!11one!!!”

      “If you love me, follow My commands.”

      • You’re a one trick pony aren’t you?

        And are you really so ignorant to believe that what Jesus said about praying for the sake of being admired precludes all public prayer and worship?

  15. Mr Pavolovitz, The trouble is that none of the traditional faithful Church/body has been eroded to such an extent that they’re not what they once were: https://t.co/22ASfo3xzv

    Just read, the active church is far more active than they’ve ever been.

  16. Here’s How Donald Trump’s Budget Screws Over the People Who Elected Him
    Goodbye safe drinking water. Hello high energy bills.

    President Donald Trump released his budget blueprint on Thursday morning and his administration is already playing defense. In an interview on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, Office of Management and Budget chief Mick Mulvaney argued that the steep cuts (in some cases down to zero) to some government programs were necessary to ease the burden on the working man.

    “One of the questions we asked was, ‘Can we really continue to ask a coal miner in West Virginia or a single mom in Detroit to pay for these programs?'” he said. “The answer was no. We can ask them to pay for defense—and we will—but we can’t ask them to continue to pay for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.”

    This argument suggests an unfamiliarity with both coal miners and the budget itself—as things currently stand, a coal miner making $51,000 a year (roughly the median US household income) pays about 60 cents in taxes to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Mulvaney’s misdirection gives away the game. Trump campaigned as a champion of rural America and small and midsize Rust Belt cities, but—much like his proposed Obamacare repeal—his budget brings the hammer down on the very people who put him in office.

    The steepest cuts in Trump’s budget target the Environmental Protection Agency (30 percent) and the Department of Agriculture (29 percent). But other agencies facing double-digit cuts include the departments of health and human services (23 percent), education (14 percent), and the interior (13 percent). The consequences of such cuts would be sweeping and leave their mark on cities and suburbs, red states and blue states. But here’s a look at what they mean for the regions that handed Trump his victory.

    The Upper Midwest: Trump broke the Democratic “blue wall” by racking up huge wins along the Great Lakes in places like Erie, Pennsylvania, and Macomb County, north of Detroit. His budget axes the $300 million in annual funding for the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, an EPA program that aims to boost economic development and improve public health, with 3,455 projects across eight states. The Great Lakes initiative exists to combat the ill-effects of the region’s industrial legacy. Among its chief responsibilities: stopping algae blooms that left 400,000 Ohioans without drinking water at one point in 2014. Michigan Republican Rep. Fred Upton already called an earlier version of the proposed cuts “alarming.”

    The Upper Midwest is also known to get cold in the winter. The Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program helps 5.7 million Americans heat their homes, and those people are disproportionately located in the frigid Midwest. (Michigan, for example, receives more funding than California, which has a far greater population.) The energy assistance saves families money they often need for other things—41 percent of the recipients in 2014 lived with someone with a disability, and 19 percent had children.

    Rural America: Terry Gross will be fine—the cuts to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that Mulvaney alluded to will mostly affect small public radio stations in rural America that get by on subsidies rather than tote bags. Mulvaney’s hypothetical coal miner most likely lives in Wyoming, Trump’s best state, where public radio will face a $320,000 budget hole if Trump gets his way, and Wyoming public television would need $700,000 to fill a 30 percent budget gap. Those are the lucky ones: In 2014, the CPB noted that 26 rural stations—many on Native American reservations—relied on federal funding for at least half their revenue. In addition to providing news and cultural programming, these stations function as emergency broadcasting platforms in the event of a disaster.

    Also on the chopping block: the $498 million Water and Wastewater loan and grant program, which funds clean-water projects in communities with fewer than 10,000 people; according to the budget blueprint, these communities can be served by “private-sector financing” instead.

    West Virginia: Trump’s budget would eliminate the Chemical Safety Board, the federal agency that investigated the 2014 chemical spill outside Charleston that left 300,000 people without drinking water for five days. The board has its hands full in West Virginia, and if it disappears its work will simply go undone—the state’s own chemical safety board is virtually nonexistent.

    Also gone would be the Appalachian Regional Commission, a state-federal partnership that pays for economic development programs in Trump-leaning swaths of West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and 10 other states. The proposed elimination of the $715 million Community Services Block Grant program would hit poor states such as West Virginia especially hard—the money it provides often ends up in exactly the kind of economically depressed communities Trump claims to champion.

    In the southern West Virginia coal haven of Mingo County, the block grant program supports the Coalfields Community Action Partnership, which helps locals buy new clothing after a fire, and covers the cost of (nonpainkiller) prescription medications. The CSBG-funded Council of the Southern Mountains in nearby McDowell County operates a day care program and a credit union, which helps low-income residents save up for Christmas presents.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/donald-trumps-budget-sticks-it-people-who-elected-him

  17. Is Trump Trying to Fail?

    So far we have:

    A health care bill so gratuitously brutal it seems almost intended to fail.
    A budget that’s very plainly just a piece of performance art designed to outrage liberals.
    A new immigration order so similar to the first one that Trump must have known it would be blocked in court.
    A funding request for a border wall that’s basically a demand for a blank check that Congress will never pass.
    A string of conspiracy theories (illegal voting, Trump Tower wiretaps, Obama is masterminding leaks) seemingly designed to waste congressional time.
    And, of course, an endless series of hollow executive orders, bombastic tweets, and sob stories about the media mistreating poor Donald.
    Incompetence is the obvious explanation for all this, but you gotta wonder. Is Trump trying to fail so he can blame everyone else when things go to hell while he remains a populist hero? Just by accident you’d think he’d do a few things that might actually work.

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/trump-trying-fail

  18. John,
    Do you not have anything better to do than to rant continuously against evangelicals? I just returned from an eight-hour meeting at our local Rescue Mission where I am a member of the board. We have a 2 million dollar budget with not a dollar of it from government taxes simply because our approach to poverty and homelessness and despair is one that addresses the whole person, including, and especially the spiritual needs and government agencies often do not let us address the whole person. We offer free meals twice a day 365 days of the year. In addition there are about 20 other food pantries in our town of 45,000. We offer free clothing but not designer brands. Today our thrift store was selling shirts, pants, and shoes for 25 cents each. We offer homeless shelters for men and women. There is no one in our community that needs to be hungry or without clothing and without a place to stay. Yet we, like other communities, have serious problems of crime and especially of drug overuse. The people we seek to help often are not psychologically able to hold down a job. We do our best to encourage, train in skills and find jobs for these people. Many have been fired numerous times because they don’t know how to relate, or be responsible. Those who are still homeless are so because they will not follow the simplest rules at the shelter (lights off at 10:00). We have people coming our city from Chicago (with its progresssive mayor and myriads of poverty programs and subsidized housing) because our city offers better hope. All of this is funded by Christians, almost all of them evangelicals although this includes all churches. Our volunteers are from the churches. In addition we cooperate with other Christian ministries. Because of all of this I wonder whether you live on some other planet or where. And who are these blind selfish evangelicals you continue to talk about? This has nothing to do with whether people support or do not support Trump. The Christians I know are not obsessed with politics. They care for people; they support their schools; they uphold families. there is a lot of good going on in the world if you have eyes to see.

    • Riley B Case, wrote, “Do you not have anything better to do than to rant continuously against evangelicals? ”

      Please read more carefully. He doesn’t address evangelicals. He addressed Christians who vote for the GOP.

      I know several evangelicals who are as equally repulsed with Christians who voted for the GOP and I daresay there are many others out there.

      Clearly you voted for the GOP and therefore, this show fits. Please own it.

    • Exactly Riley while painting a broad brush you will disparage the individuals making a difference form within that group.

      • well maybe, Riley, it’s time you evangelicals stop supporting a party that at every turn seeks to screw over the poor and the middle class so they can give more and more fellatio to the rich.

        But sorry, as long as you vote Republican no matter how much you do in charity, while commendable, you are still part of the problem.

        Because as you said..your charity only has a two million dollar budget. Which means it doesn’t have the resources to take on the shift in burden that your precious GOP is engaging in when they shift the burden from the shoulders of the government onto your charity’s shoulders.

        Because no matter how much Ashley there and whoever else wants to pretend that if we simply cut taxes on the rich there will magically be enough charity to pick up the slack..that won’t happen.

        • Yup, it didn’t happen the last few times they sold this trickle down bull, won’t happen now. Makes you wonder how they will pin this on Obama. Peace.

        • James, here is fact for you– 16% of the voters who identify as white, born- again/evangelical christians voted for Hillary Clinton. Those are real honest people who agree with you– as well as 45% of the white Catholics. No matter how you view those numbers there is a whole lot of people being dismissed here.

  19. 1 Corinthians 13:4-13New International Version (NIV)

    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

    13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    Are we missing the boat on both sides John?

  20. And those you who voted GOP, third party or didn’t vote at all, thank you for this.

    Exhausted Rex Tillerson threatens a preemptive strike on North Korea

    When inexperienced diplomats get tired …

    US Secretary of State Tillerson cut short his visit to S. Korea because of “fatigue,” Korean officials tell Korea Herald.
    They can get grumpy.

    US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Friday declared that the existing “strategic patience” approach is over, saying all options including military action are on the table. …

    “Let me be very clear: the policy of strategic patience has ended. We are exploring a new range of diplomatic, security, economic measures. All options are on the table.”
    Tillerson isn’t just talking about military action, he’s talking up the possibility of making a preemptive attack on North Korea. It’s an option that’s being pressed by supposedly reasonable Republicans.

    Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) said during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing last month that the United States has three choices: what he called “proactive regime change,” to topple Kim; sanctions and other coercive measures; or military cooperation with Japan and South Korea that could include a preemptive strike on missile facilities. “Otherwise, we’re staring down the barrel of an ICBM,” Corker said.
    Two points: first, ICBMs don’t have barrels, second, Russia and China already have better than 2,000 missiles pointed our way and a handful more from North Korea doesn’t represent a serious increase in the threat to the nation. But our attitude about those weapons is a serious issue.

    Especially to more than 20 million people in South Korea we can’t protect.

    Please read more here http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/17/1644469/-Exhausted-Rex-Tillerson-threatens-a-preemptive-strike-on-North-Korea?detail=email&link_id=18&can_id=aac248234d067d672dba041bb62601e0&source=email-petulant-man-child-trump-refuses-to-shake-german-chancellor-merkels-hand&email_referrer=petulant-man-child-trump-refuses-to-shake-german-chancellor-merkels-hand___184516&email_subject=exhausted-rex-tillerson-threatens-a-preemptive-strike-on-north-korea

    • OK, I read the piece, but for all of its data, it does not reflect what I have witnessed personally. What I have seen is so called Christians who go to church every Sunday do/say terrible things and who do not in anyway practice the teachings of Christ. I myself am an athiest and have been since highschool. I am 64 yrs old and even back then I saw all of the hypocracy of most who claim to be Christians,
      The cheating, the lying, the greed, the hate, the bullying. But just go to church on Sunday and all is forgiven.
      Now even Pope Francis says an athiest is more likely to be accepted into heaven than a so called christians who do not follow the teachings of Christ.

  21. here’s the caliber of the man you let into the White House

    Trump celebrates St. Patrick’s Day by reading an ‘Irish proverb’ (that is Nigerian, not Irish)

    Republicans welcoming Ireland’s Prime Minister Enda Kenney and a traveling Irish press pool acted downright foolishly and the reaction from reporters and the Irish people have been swift. From the Washington Post:

    The day began with a cringe-worthy, mildly offensive Irish cliche in front of a room-full of Irish people, and it all went downhill from there.

    “Top of the morning,” said Vice President Pence, as he hosted Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny at his residence for breakfast Thursday.

    Really? The reaction by Irish on social media was palpable.
    And got no better as Donald Trump took the podium and not only mispronounced Fionnuala Kenny, the wife of Prime Minister Enda Kenney, he took his moment to read the following, which he described as an old “Irish proverb”:

    please read the rest here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/3/17/1644511/-Trump-celebrates-St-Patrick-s-Day-by-reading-an-Irish-proverb-that-is-Nigerian-not-Irish?detail=email&link_id=3&can_id=aac248234d067d672dba041bb62601e0&source=email-petulant-man-child-trump-refuses-to-shake-german-chancellor-merkels-hand&email_referrer=petulant-man-child-trump-refuses-to-shake-german-chancellor-merkels-hand___184516&email_subject=exhausted-rex-tillerson-threatens-a-preemptive-strike-on-north-korea

  22. ROTFLMHO so just had to share. Some will appreciate it, I know.

    A song about “He who shall not be named.”

    Thanks to Dan Prechtel for this!

    Okay, this is wading into the turbulent political waters but the tune has been an ear worm and the lyrics came easily to me during the presidential campaign. Now with so much at stake I need to offer this little song:

    DUMP TRUMP SONG

    Dump Trump dump Trump
    Dump Trump dump Trump
    Who’s the leader of the gang
    that threatens you and me?
    D-O-N-A-L-D-T-R-U-M-P
    Hey there, hi there, ho there,
    he’s as reckless as can be.
    D-O-N-A-L-D-T-R-U-M-P
    Donald Trump – kick him out!
    Donald Trump – kick him out!
    Forever let us hold core values high! High! High! High!
    Come along and sing our song
    for common decency.
    Dump D-O-N-A-L-D-T-R-U-M-P!

    Lyrics: Daniel Prechtel

    Tune: Mickey Mouse Clubhouse Theme Song

  23. “Imagine being President and having all the information from the most powerful, effective intelligence organizations on Earth — from the code-breakers at NSA, from the CIA’s human intelligence resources across the globe, from our allies who share intel, etc.

    “Now imagine ignoring all of it and watching the morons on Fox News make shit up.”

    Tim Widowfield

    Except, of course, we don’t have to imagine it.

    “Trump: Don’t Blame Me When I Quote Fox News
    They report, we repeat.”

    Donald Trump does not like taking responsibility for White House screwups. He’ll blame anyone else he can think of—even his friends at Fox News.

    On Thursday, White House press secretary Sean Spicer set off an international incident when he suggested that British intelligence might have spied on Trump during the campaign in response to a request from President Barack Obama. Spicer made this remark while once again trying to defend his boss, who two weeks ago tweet-claimed—without offering any evidence—that Obama had “wiretapped” him at Trump Tower during the 2016 election. Since then the GOP chairs of the congressional intelligence committees (and many others) have declared there is no proof to back up Trump’s reckless charge, which apparently was based on a Breitbart news story that itself was based on a statement (or rant) by right-wing radio talker Mark Levin.

    Read the rest, if you’ve the stomach for it here: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/trump-dont-blame-me-when-i-quote-fox-news

  24. This is also hilarious. I figure that the reason he didn’t shake her hand as that his hand is not the usual body he extends to be shaken by a woman. Unless, of course, it is to point at her breasts.

    NEXT
    When Angela Merkel owned Donald Trump – our 10 favourite tweets
    People have been having lots of fun with Donald Trump’s car crash of a meeting with Angela Merkel.

    Trump was widely criticised for refusing to shake the German chancellor’s hand when they met at the White House – he could barely bring himself to look at her – and suggesting they were both wiretapped by Barack Obama.

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/03/18/angela-merkel-owned-donald-trump-10-favourite-tweets/

  25. Proving what we have known all along… the occupant et al can’t distinguish the truth from non-truth.

    “White House cites satire column to tout budget”

    “The White House included a satirical column in its list of news stories meant to promote Trump agenda — apparently ignoring the fact that the column actually savages Trump’s new budget.

    “Friday’s edition of the “1600 Daily” highlighted a Washington Post article by humorist Alexandra Petri with a deceptively positive title: “Trump’s budget makes perfect sense and will fix America, and I will tell you why.”

  26. I can assure you from my own personal experience, this is exactly what it is like.

    THIS IS WHAT IT’S REALLY LIKE TO FEED YOUR FAMILY FROM A FOOD PANTRY

    As the smiling food pantry volunteers put our donation box in the back of the car, my two kids squealed with joy. I’ll admit it — after waiting over an hour-and-a-half in line, it did feel a bit like Christmas.

    I pulled out of the lot, only to pull over again — a few blocks away — to study the contents of the box. As I slowly pried it open, I could hear my 3-year-old cheering, just as my heart sank.

    At first, I could only make out the 10 boxes of expired cookies and two bags of stale donuts that filled the box. The red line across the barcode signaled that a local grocery store had donated them because they were stale. Underneath, there was a large bag of Halloween candy that had recently been collected by a local dentist’s office for a promotion they were running. Under that, there were 12 cans of vegetables that had large red stickers across the top reading “DO NOT SELL,” and two boxes of cereal (both opened, with one box half gone). Then, at the very bottom, was a bottle of expired salad dressing and a package of seasoning (you know, the kinds of things you might grab from your kitchen once you realize that you need a food pantry donation for your kid’s school).

    https://www.babble.com/best-recipes/what-its-really-like-to-eat-from-food-pantry/

    • This is absolutely the truth. When you have a food drive, people will send everything they don’t want or past the esp date. My husband and I used to call it the “good enough” syndrome. They are poor, so it’s good enough, this is charity, so it’s good enough, spent 40+ yrs trying to change that mindset and now 62 million people in this country are telling the poor and the disabled and the disenfranchised that it is good enough because you don’t deserve anything else. This is crazy making. Peace, Love, and Resist.

      • I once received a huge jar of mayo. It looked suspicious to me so I called the 800 # on the label and the woman I spoke was horrified that I had been given a jar of mayo with a 10-year-old expiration date on it. It could have killed me to eat it, she told me.

        And you wonder why I complain about the selections I receive at the food banks and why I have a grocery wishlist up on Amazon.

  27. Pingback: “They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat.”

  28. After World War II, conservatives denounced the GI Bill as welfare. Two decades later Ronald Reagan dubbed Medicare “socialized medicine.” Most of us remember George W. Bush’s pathetic “faith-based” approach to welfare, while stating that hospital emergency rooms were health insurance for the poor and uninsured. Many of the same people who voted for Reagan, Bush and Trump have fallen for the Republican ruse that illegal immigrants and “welfare queens” were bankrupting the U.S. economy. Areas where much of the nation’s poorest citizens live – Appalachia, East Texas – are strongly pro-Republican. Yet they keep buying into conservative proclamations that, if we outlaw abortion and prevent queers from getting married, everything else will just fall into place.

    A while back I saw a video clip of televangelist Pat Robertson explaining how an elderly couple whose monthly budget is thin because of their regular church-tithing can make ends meet: just look around their house and find stuff to sell. He then, of course, got into his limo after the broadcast to head home to his mansion.

    Many evangelicals idolize the likes of Reagan and Bush, while demonizing Jimmy Carter who has spent the better part of his retirement building houses with Habitat for Humanity and overseeing democratic voting in other countries. We need more Carters and fewer Robertsons in this country and in this world.

  29. I think what some forget is that voters are people as well with sincere reasons why they voted, although we do not understand them as much as we would like they are not evil because they voted for Trump. In fact I got an email from friend today who voted for Hillary Clinton but sees the other side,

    ” You know, I am too getting tired of the finger pointing. I admit there is many a conservative Christian in many a conservative evangelical church that are there to perpetuate their cliques and aren’t interested in social justice. But there are many who are concerned and act. … There are no quick fixes…Christ calls us, individually and together, to get involved. To get our hands and hearts dirty. To risk relationship with one another… Put away differences. To do what we can with what we have. Vilifying a group because they voted for someone is no good. It’s not solving anything and puts even further space between us.

    I live in a pretty rural area. Most of the folks in town or down these country roads just make ends meet. They are hard working farmers or plant workers that wouldn’t take charity for anything… They go without. They (mistakenly) but in hope, voted for Trump believing he would make their lives better, or safer, or whiter, or more American, or unified… On and on. They go to churches, “love the Lord”, eat pot luck dinners, and believe preachers. That’s what they know. Are they Villians? Not really but just not well-informed. And I’m certain they’re just as confused about Washington as I am right about now.

    Somehow I don’t think people should be condemned for hoping. I think what people need is to be supported and SHOWN a different way. Loved in the process. And those of us who knew better should be that example.”

  30. Pingback: Food For Thought | My Eyes Are Watching You

  31. Pingback: Christianity Hurts, Jesus is Hurt, Hurting the Least of These – FairAndUNbalanced.com

  32. While Christians are arguing over corrupt groups in Washington there are lost souls that need the gospel for salvation and poor people that need food, clothing, etc.

    I pray this fruitless bickering can end. It’s a poor testimony to the lost and a waste of time.

    If we’re going to argue about something let’s make it fun and argue about sports.

  33. Scott Elliott
    March 16

    It is essential that we make the case, and not just drive him out. It must be as obvious as the neon signs on Times Square that Trump and Trumpism are not the solution, but the problem; not a savior but a demon or a damnation from which we need salvation.

    It must be made clear that the opposition is not just an extreme form of partisanship (as it is being portrayed by the GOP, and as both of the past impeachments had mostly been) – which would justify even more extreme partisanship on their part in the future.

    Extreme partisanship is what created this problem, what brought us to the point where Trumpism is possible. It will not, it cannot save us now, Only hard truth and genuine patriotism are strong enough to save us from what we are becoming.
    We must make Trump and Trumpism *anathema* in American politics, just as Huey Long became in Louisiana and the US, just as McCarthyism has been for more than half a century.

  34. Sigh. Someone is getting their FAKE news from CNN, WSJ and WAPO yet again, it seems.

    The ‘Older Americans Act’ hasn’t been touched. It was renewed last year without opposition. Both parties have declared support for it this year ~ the 2018 budget.

    While the MSM lied about the budget of ‘ Meals on Wheels’ being slashed ~ it isn’t ~ there was a huge upsurge in private donations to keep MoW’s funded … you know? People taking care of people.

    As for the meat of this blog post …

    “If feeding and caring for people is indeed the sole role of the Church and not the Government, why are so many people still starving, still hurting?”

    Because this World can be a horrible place where plagues, wars and famines break out all the time. Unfortunate things happen. It has never been the place of the faithful to overthrow the existing social order. No, while we are mandated to care for those less fortunate, how we do so and how our organized faith does so, is governed by real world forces which include human frailty and failings.

    “You’ve been open for business for 2,000 years now—supposedly the business of reflecting the character of Jesus and replicating his life. How much longer is it going to take?”

    Until the End of Time. This place isn’t supposed to become Heaven by our hands. I repeat: bad things will happen. We are asked to do the best we can with what we have. Chastising any group for not ending all suffering and misery is downright disingenuous.

    “Just what in the hell have you been waiting for?”

    The Second Coming. I thought that would be obvious.

    “When in God’s name are you going to tangibly demonstrate an empathy that resembles Jesus …”

    We are not the Son of God. We are the vessels for His Message, if we are willing. Also, a surprising number of people who can’t see others exercising empathy have a profound lack of empathy themselves ~ just saying.

    “… because from where I’m standing, all I can make out is a whole lot of self-righteous judges who seem determined to pass the buck, unwilling to show empathy, and violently allergic to really loving the least.”

    Here we go; “I’m & I” … “where you are standing” … all you can make out is a whole lot of self-righteous judges?

    So it is all about you and how you chose to judge others?
    Pot.
    Kettle.
    Black.
    Because the way you describe yourself sitting in judgement of others and their views of Christianity is not Jesus’ way either.

    Passing the buck? No. Plenty of people who disagree with you and your Social Agenda know where WE think the buck should be and is going.

    Really loving in the least … because we don’t ‘love’ on your terms?

    We each are capable of loving God, Jesus and this World in our own way and don’t require validation, or moral confirmation, from an on-line blog. Better luck next time.

    Yes, that was me being disingenuous.

  35. Is there any compassion, or empathy, or decency from Trump’s budget? If this passes as is thousands of people will die unnecessarily. We will see the elderly die from cold, heat, or illnesses caused by malnutrition. I am too dismayed to write anymore.

    • I believe that a segment of our population has forgotten in their self-righteousness, that that could be them. Unfortunately what will convince them will hurt those of us, who know that but for a few things falling our way, that could be us. A depression like the 20’s, which everyone forgets. I remember the horror stories that my parents told and I fear that that is where we are heading and unless you have offshore funds, you will be hurt. But zealots don’t care for others only their own. I think it blinds them. Once again, the “I have mine, you get yours and if you do have any, I am entitled to that also” syndrome. Peace

      • Like John P. said earlier, when Trump won we all lost. It may not happen next month or next quarter, but the damage will affect us all.

        • Robin, I suspect that the loudest outcry against the damage that will affect all of us will be from the very same people who voted GOP, third party or didn’t vote at all.

          Somehow the people in the states which receive the most in federal aid have been brainwashed into thinking that without big government and lower taxes for the rich, that their federal assistance will remain the same.

          I am praying the lesson will have sunk in enough to compel right- minded people to vote in 2018. It needs to be prayed for because historically we know that the conservatives get out there and vote in every election and we liberals have been a tad too lazy about voting in the mid-terms.

          One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are