Today, I Hope That There’s a Hell

I was brought up believing that hell was real, though later in life I’d grown skeptical. It seemed like an idea incompatible with a loving God and with the very idea of Grace.

I’m still not sure that hell exists, but today I admit to being strangely hopeful.

Today I cling to the idea that somewhere beyond this life, there is a place where horrible people pay for the atrocities; where the evil humankind unleashes upon this world is returned to them in kind, and they are finally made personally accountable—where they feel the pain they have inflicted while here.

Today it feels like this world has failed the good people, and maybe hell is the only chance there is for things to be made right.

Because if there indeed is a hell, it will be surely getting more crowded after today.

If there’s a hell it should be probably filled with people who claimed faith in Jesus, while spending the National Day of Prayer stripping the sick of care and the vulnerable of protection—and reveling as if this was a righteous victory.

And if there’s a hell, it should be packed to the rafters with Christians who chose to turn the other way or to be silent as they watched it all happen.

If there is a hell, Donald Trump and Paul Ryan and Mike Pence, and all those who conspired to perpetrate this horror upon our most vulnerable and most at-risk, might actually come to the humility and repentance and decency that they seem incapable of here.

If there’s a hell, they might have to be accountable there, for their willful hatred here—and I want them to be accountable.

If hell exists, this would be precisely why.

Honestly I’m not at all proud of this admission. As a follower of Jesus, I suppose it’s a fairly terrible confession of faith, and that is something I’ll wrestle with and pray through. I’m not condemning anyone simply because of how they worship or who they love. I am wondering whether those who do disregard other lives so callously while claiming Christ, are aware of the irony that my mere suggestion of hell for them, will probably make them bristle with outrage, even though they are regularly in the damnation business. This is not that.

I simply know that right now, things aren’t panning out the way I’d be told they would, the way Jesus promised, and his followers are largely responsible:

The meek are not inheriting the earth, they’re getting the shit kicked out of them.
The mourning are not being comforted it, they’re being handed more grief.
The least are not being loved, they’re being further minimized and silenced.

And yes, I know I’m supposed to believe that love wins and that it conquers all and that it is all you need—but honestly that’s all a tough sell today. Today it all just feels like empty platitudes and pop songs.

And platitudes and pop songs won’t remove a tumor.
They won’t protect transgender teenagers from being driven to self-harm.
They won’t save a dying infant.
They won’t keep families of gay children from harassment in their neighborhoods and churches.
They won’t care for an elderly widow at the end of her life.

And so love alone feels tragically insufficient.

It is still my calling and my aspiration, and tomorrow I’ll be standing again in the bloody trenches alongside my like-hearted brothers and sisters who believe that good people can alter the planet—but today that doesn’t feel like enough. That doesn’t feel like the story.

Today the story, is that hateful people do hateful things to other people and they do all it believing God is good with it.

Today the story, is that not all people are decent or compassionate or merciful.

Today the story is that the sick and the poor and the different and the vulnerable are being trod upon.

And I hate this story, because too many innocent people are suffering in real-time because of it. Too many people are enduring a living hell in their daily lives.

And so yes, right now I look at this day and this life and this world, and it feels like the bad people are winning, and I want those people to understand how much hurt they are manufacturing. And since they don’t seem to care very much at all, I want to believe that they will one day face their Maker and the mirror and the blood upon their hands.

And so as much as it pains me to say it—today I’m kinda hoping there is a hell.

 

(Note: Obviously I don’t wish eternal torment on anyone. In fact, the idea that anyone can condemn anyone else is something I have been pushing back against for years here. This is about the deep anger and the profound disconnect that results from people who claim to believe in Jesus, putting other people through hell here by removing their access to healthcare. If you’re a Christian, and the framing of this piece is more offensive to you than that reality—that may be something you’ll want to consider. Maybe we’re all in this together, and we should stop be horrible to one another.)

 

 

 

 

676 thoughts on “Today, I Hope That There’s a Hell

  1. I can’t comment on your FB page since you’re at your friends limit, but I wanted to thank you for this post and the many others. I wish I lived in your city, because even though I’m not a church-goer, I would go to yours, and proudly.

    • and I would be sitting in the pew next to you! This has taken the words from my mouth and is exactly how I along with many others feel about what society and the world, in general has come to today! It definitely feels as if we are living in Sodom and Gomorrah! I pray every day for God to intervene….even though I don’t go to church, I have a lot of faith in God and Jesus Christ. I have seen evil people “get theirs” eventually but it is frustrating to go through life trying to be honest and kind and stand by watching others being so evil and selfish…wondering when they’ll get theirs! I suppose keeping the faith is what we need to do! It will come full circle!

  2. Also makes me rethink the old adage, “You can’t take it with you,” because evidently Hell is a pretty expensive place to spend eternity. Why else would money matter so much to this aging group of demons?

    • This article states what so many of us are thinking……how much longer will the evil ones rule the Earth? Seems like the more honest and kind you are, the more you get screwed over. But I keep on the path because I have seen in my own life that God rewards those of us who are kind, honest and care about others. He also will punish those who are not. Keep the faith and believe in him and he will always take care of you!

      • Cindy, you are right. and the bible says the same thing that you do . Satan is the ruler of this World, and it’s going to get worse. Man has got to make a choice. Believe Jesus, or follow Satan. (it’s not really about how ‘good’ someone is, it’s about who they believe in, Jesus’ plan is not merit based.) Soon, God will come back for his Church, then there will be times of great Tribulation. Jesus will return again, but this time to wage war against all who are in rebellion against Him.

        • You have been reading too much Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye nonsense about Daniel and Revelations. It may be fun to read—but a very great deal of the Christian church around the world does not believe in their nonsense. Revelations is a complicated book that anyone can put their own bullsh*t interpretation on. Country fundie preachers here in my area do it all the time, and they all say something different.

          • Charles, my objection to Hal Lindsey nd Tim LaHaye is that the trash they write and the way they interpret the Book of the Revelation has no roots in Church History. They are teaching stuff that was unheard of 150 years ago in those tent revival meetings, a major form of entertainment for people.

            Scaring people into the kingdom has got to be the least possible effective means of evangelism.

        • Dear leslie m.:

          When Jesus returns, the dead are raised, all peoples are judged, and the eternal state is consummated.

          Blessings!

  3. I found this interesting…
    The Tickler
    The Tickler is the false teacher who cares nothing for what God wants and everything for what men want. He is the man-pleaser rather than the God-pleaser. Paul thought of him as the ear-tickler: “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths” (2 Timothy 4:3-4). The Tickler craves popularity and praise from the world. To maintain his follower’s respect, he preaches only the parts of the Bible they deem acceptable. Therefore, he speaks much of happiness but little of sin, much of heaven but nothing of hell. He gives them only what they want to hear. He preaches a partial gospel which is no gospel at all.

    He preaches an empty gospel to a packed out church.
    The Tickler is as old as the church itself. In the nineteenth century he was Henry Ward Beecher, and in the twentieth he was Norman Vincent Peale and Robert Schuller. Today he is Joel Osteen, pastor of the largest church in America, who is known equally for his toothy smile and his vacuous content. He preaches an empty gospel to a packed out church. Like the false prophets of Jeremiah’s day, he and the thousands like him say, “‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace” (Jeremiah 6:14).

    JAS

    • And this relates to the current discussion how…?

      I will agree with you that Joel Osteen is vacuous. Harmful not because he’s a “man-pleaser” but harmful because his message is basically, pray for God to give you stuff. Oh, and if you don’t have stuff, it must mean you didn’t pray right, or hard enough, or whatever, not because we live in an oppressive system with ever increasing income inequality.

      • It relates because John is an ear tickler.

        If JP, Rob Bell, and Brian McLaren all stood in the ocean arms length apart from each other and the gospel manifested itself in a shark, bit them on the behind, they would probably think the guy next to them was pinching them. Why? They have no clue on the gospel. In their world government is their “god”.

        • And Trump/Pence and the Christian Right Party are not all “ear ticklers?”

          If you think they are not false teachers who care nothing for what God wants and everything for what men want, you are only deceiving yourself.

          Trump is the ultimate “man-pleaser rather than the God-pleaser.” Clearly the time is now “when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths”

          Clearly Trump/Pence and the Christian Right Party crave and cultivate “popularity and praise from the world.” Clearly Trump/Pence and the Christian Right Party, to maintain his follower’s respect, adhere to “only the parts of the Bible they deem acceptable.” Therefore, he speaks much of winning but little of the sinful cost.

                  • Bob Peacock, all anonymous is really saying is that John P is not saying the magic formula words of Anonymous’s faith tradtition. Anonymous obviously thinks there is only one way to be a Christian which is the way Anonymous’ church does it. Despite the available evidence of Church History.

                    We usually call such groups cults, who think there is only one way to be a Christian .

          • Do you hope Trump and Ryan go to Hell like your pastor does?

            Do you think it might be better that if you see them as evil that you should instead pray for their conversion?

            • CTP: Pastor John doesn’t even realize that there is only one criteria for going to Hell… reject Jesus.

            • You damn bet I hope Trump, Pence, Ryan and all the other smirking pieces of crap at that “victory lap” fry in Hell. Every last one of them. They are so far beyond redemption at this point. Unfortunately for us, they’ll all probably live forever – Heaven won’t have them, and Hell’s afraid they’ll take over!

                • Anonymous, who are you to say what John P realizes? Cowardly attacks from anonymous haters are just that and have no credibility at all.

                  John P has not only the courage to put his name on this blog and his commentary, he is sharing his very deep pain with all of us and your Christian compassion is duly noted.

                  • You’re excusing him. He is not “sharing” his pain. He’s venting his hatred and inviting you to follow him down that path.

                    • It is all in the eye of the beholder. I see your comments as hateful, spiteful etc. So I would say you are leading people astray by following DT’s example and the way he governs. So take your own comment to heart, go into a closet and pray that you lose your self righteous streak, that you get a little humility and that you receive the holy spirit so that you can minister to the least of God’s children. By the way from what I have read that means to feed them, clothe them, heal them, educate them. That’s what I am trying to do by resisting the hateful selfishness that is our Government right now. Join us in making the world better by calling out what they do when they vote to throw people off of insurance, when they give the Insurance Co carte blanche to do whatever and charge whatever, when they vote to allow discrimination of anyone. You weren’t bashful when President Obama was there. Surely your version of Christianity believes that we are all God’s children and therefore we need to take care of all God’s children, not just the wealthy ones.

                    • Do you want Trump and Ryan to go to Hell and suffer eternally Kathleen? Are you with your guru or against him in this? Does Jesus call us to hope people go to hell and call pastors to proclaim such?

                    • Misnomer, It is not my fault you lack the compassion and empathy to see what is clearly right in front of you. But then, you already proved that.

                • But she has not reached Trump/Pence/Ryan’s level of hate because she is not wishing that hate on millions of people like they are!

                  And from what I see, she has not reached your level of hate either.

            • I pray all human vipers go to hell, but you are surely not showing any Christian love, compassion or empathy as a man of faith wrestles with demons right in front of your eyes now are you?

              • We should not pray anyone goes to Hell. There’s nothing biblical about it. We should pray all come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

                • Again, Jesus is clear some will go to hell, I can certainly pray it is those who deserve it. There’s nothing “unbiblical” about it.

                  • Sandi
                    Deserve is a lie from the devil. No one ‘deserves’ anything. We are saved by the Grace of God not for anything we do. Being saved leads us to pouring out the cup that has been filled towards others. Clearly anyone can be converted with the Grace of God, which he evidences all throughout history in the Bible. God will use anyone for his Glory, Paul, David, Noah, Moses etc etc.. There is only one Judge and I will let him be the judge. I will pray for John every day that he is used as Saul was used.

                    In Grace,
                    Just Another Sinner

              • What is a “human viper”? You are the one to determine who they are and then you pray for them to go to Hell?

                Which human vipers are you currently praying for to suffer eternally?

                Would you mind at all if my prayers are for their conversion? Would it spoil your fun if they turned to God and repented of their sins (real sins, that is. Not being a socialist is not a sin. Not wanting Planned Parenthood to kill babies is not a sin).

                • Misnomer, ask Jesus. Just boring his word…”You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

                  I am not God, I do not have the power to determine who, but I am most clearly allowed to pray they go to Hell if they deserve to go there.

                  I live assured that God knows the human vipers without me pointing them out.

                  You should pray as you like and hope God looks past the mockery to listen.

                  I do not think you can spoil my fun. Nor do I think they will turn to God and repent of their sins. But that is not mine to determine like you seem to think it is yours.

                  • Please read Matthew 5:44. We’re not to pray for people to go to Hell but for their salvation.

                    • You said the following, “I pray all human vipers go to hell”

                      Praying they go to hell is unbiblical.

                    • No PBH, I already showed you that praying human vipers to hell is not “unbiblical.” Nothing Jesus said is “unbiblical”. God is the one who decides if they go. I merely hope in God that they do.

                    • You’re taking the verse out of context and justifying your hate. Embarrassing, pathetic, and another example that liberals are only tolerant as long as people are like them.

                    • Oh sure PBH, because dear hypocrite you would never take a verse out of context…but in any case I did not. Jesus is the one who will not tolerate the self-righteous.

                • You need to wake up and read the blog again., no one is wanting anyone to stay in a literal hell., read what John said about facing the mirror., looking into it, seeing grace, compassion etc., and those who do not, then will be judged., and if there is a hell., that will be the appropriate place for them., even though I too., believe that a God of Love., would not confine a person to a lake o fire or damnation for eternity.. nor does John., we are perplexed and expressing our dismay at how the New Republic of the Divided States of America is looking now. So sorry and sad.

          • Trump and Pence don’t qualify as ticklers. The definition is talking about pastors, preachers, ministers, you know leaders of the church. Trump and Pence are politician, they gather votes and attempt to lead people politically. I know when pastors start talking politics and stop using the Bible it’s easy to confuse the two. Trump and Pence are supposed to be people pleasers it’s part of the campaigning and getting elected. It’s not a very honest profession but that’s why you go to church for your word of God and capital hill to pass laws. Trump and Pence don’t claim to be pastors or to preach God’s word. They may not be great reflections of Christians but they aren’t preaching the word of God. You are correct, however, that ear ticklers have a lot in common with politicians.

            Sincerely
            Humility Grace Mercy

            • HGM, I do not know where you have been the last 30 years but the whole crux of the argument here is that the church and the church leaders allowed the Republican Party to usurp the role of leadership in so many ways they have melded into the Christian Right Party.

              Maybe your church did not blatantly host them, raise funds and access but many Christian institutions and leaders did. So yes, they are most assuredly “ticklers” whether you admit that or not. (Not that the blogger quoted was any kind of expert or someone I would respect the opinion of)

              BTW, if “Trump and Pence are supposed to be people pleasers”, they are doing a really lousy job of it. This country is more divided, more vitriolic and less safe than it has been in my lifetime. When is this “pleasing” going to start?

        • I can speak only for myself. My God isn’t government but I am vastly disappointed in a government that wraps itself in fascist evangelism, shouting God at every turn, serving only its own kind. My understanding of my faith is that it extends to every element of life, beyond church, all the way to city hall. I do not seek to impose my belief system – choosing “attraction over promotion” – but if our government (the collective “us”) fails to address the intersection of “the least of these” and society, then we are, in my opinion, far removed from the teachings of Jesus.

    • Form of Godliness , but deny’s God Entirely ,
      Words that have no Validy
      Happy Gospel , Words of Pleasant, Words of Im Ok , YOUR ok gospel.
      The Truth is : We are all a byproduct of ADAM and were on the Road to Death, Jesus Christ provided a Bridge to Make us Holy and acceptable to God. Because With out the Atonement for Sin, Mankind will Perrish .
      Hell is for those who Reject The payment for Sin. NO Other reason. Eternal Separation From God, That is what Hell is.

    • if ever i was searching for an example of simony, i’d have found it in this blog by a “pastor.”

      “Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
      Matthew 15:14

    • Well said JAS. I also think of the verse “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.” This so called minister’s language and lack of anything Biblical or Scriptural and with a text that goes agaisnt all Christian values of praying for leaders and forgiveness and winning others over o the Lord rather then damning them for what? Political differences over healthcare? Absolutely non Christian worldly sinful ideology.

      • Oh I get it, you good Christians think you are standing in the breach and protecting others from this “wolf in sheep’s clothing”? Wow! May God have mercy!

  4. I saw this coming a mile away. He denied there is a Hell and now is hoping for one so that his enemies roast forever. What about trying to save them, Pastor?

    Obamacare was doomed. It was falling apart anyway and needs to be replaced. There is negotiating yet to be done and I’m confident it will work out for the best for all. Nobody has been “trod upon” yet.

    Paul Ryan is a decent family man and a practicing Catholic. He’s not “hateful” in the slightest. Why would anyone wish an eternity of torment upon him of all people? I don’t wish that on my worst enemy. I pray for the conversion of their souls. Pastors of all people should do that as well. They should also try to understand that liberal politics is not holy doctrine.

    • Liberal politics is not holy doctrine, no. “Conservative” politics certainly isn’t either. Some of us aren’t bound by the false idea that one party is more favored by God.
      While we’re on the “is/isn’t” idea…..Trump is as much a Christian as I’m a dang brain surgeon.
      I work part time in sales and I’m a mom, by the way.
      Speaking of brain surgeons and other faux Christians, Trump sure found one of the dumbest brain surgeons on the planet to be in his cabinet.

      • In the words of John Palovitz, when they worked in another article.
        “Nowhere in the Bible are there requirements on who can and can’t claim faith in Jesus, and certainly no permissions are given to anyone to establish such requirements for anyone else.” He’s scratching itching ears, his “truth” tosses around like the waves.

    • CTS, to be blunt..shut the **** up you weasley little liar. Your party just voted to take away health care from 26 million people just so they could give a tax cut to the top few…AND THEN YOUR PARTY’S LEADERSHIP IN THE HOUSE THREW A KEGGER IN CELEBRATION.

      No, child, Paul Ryan is not a good Catholic. He is a lying sack of shit that does not give a damn about anyone but himself and the top few who buy him off like a whore.

      You and your fellow Republicans, child, just announced to the world today that you are not followers of Christ. You just announced that it is Satan’s call you answer to.

      So take your lies and your bullshit and your depravity, child, and go the hell away.

      • “Christian” and “Trump Supporter” is an oxymoron. Just look at Matthew 25:31-46. That lays it out pretty darned clearly. Taking care of the sick is a Christian value. And what James said, too.

            • A valid syllogism:

              1) Christians should help the needy.
              2) Bob is a Christian.
              3 Therefore Bob should help the needy. (Though of course there could be exceptions if Bob is very poor himself or not well).

              A valid syllogism but the premise is false:

              1) Christians should help the needy by supporting with their tax dollars and votes for others to support with their tax dollars whatever big government programs liberals say they should support.

              2) Bob is a Christian.

              3) Therefore Bob must do #1 or he is not behaving like a Christian.

              The problem with the second syllogism is that it is based on a false premise. The liberal stacks the deck or loads the dice in favor of his position by setting the parameters for the premise, in this case being what “helping the needy REALLY means.”

              The bottom line is that I don’t have to accept your premise. There are other ways to help the needy including government programs that are different than those you assert a Christian must support.

              • It is funny, you lecturing people on a “false premise” Misnomer, but in reality, if Bob is a Christian and Bob believes the teachings and commands of Jesus, Bob seeks EVERY WAY he can help accomplish that.

                Bob does not need to be well off to give (widow’s mite). Bob does not have to give in any certain way (donation, volunteering, word of mouth support, asking friends to help). Bob does not have to support any political party to do the right thing, BUT Bob cannot do the right thing if he supports a political party that does so much of the wrong thing. And Bob knows this, that is why Bob spends so much time trying to justify his vote.

                And finally, it amazes me how the teachings of Jesus always get spat back at us as “liberal doctrine” and “big government programs” and yet the VERY expensive military industrial complex that you happily feed is what, a small government program?

                • You’re setting up the terms of the premise. Jesus didn’t say we must give to the poor in such a way that pleases leftwing liberals and supports and enlarges an already bloated and inefficient federal government and only then are we truly giving. (and that doesn’t preclude some government help either).

                  Here is a taste of “prudential judgment” which is very pertinent to this issue. You’ll find more at the link blow it:

                  An action which is intrinsically evil is something which is always and everywhere wrong. To use one of the standard examples: Abortion is an intrinsic evil in that the act of abortion can never be a just action. The taking of human life is not an intrinsic evil because it is an action which is unjust in some circumstances (murder) but just in others (self defense, just war, times and places when the common good requires the use of capital punishment). (My goal is to be short here, so I’m not going to enter into discussion of double effect.) As this example shows, just because something is not intrinsically evil doesn’t mean that it isn’t worthy of very, very serious moral reflection. Clearly, one can’t say, “Killing another human being is not intrinsically evil, so reasonable people can feel free to differ on it.” The prudential judgement of “does this situation justify the taking of human life” is clearly a moral question of the very highest magnitude.

                  Why then this distinction between “intrinsic evils” and “prudential judgments” in political discussion among Catholics? I think reason is that some moral principles seem to have political applications so obvious that there can be little room for variance in judgement. For instance, abortion is often cited as an example of an intrinsic evil on which Catholics may not vary in their opinion in politics. It is a belief held by much of the political left in this country that there is a “right to choice” in regards to abortion, in other words that a woman has a fundamental human right (which the state must respect and protect) to choose to have an abortion if she so chooses. From a Catholic moral point of view, one may not have a right to do something which is evil. I cannot have a “right to choose to torture” or a “right to choose to murder”. As such, I think it’s legitimate to say that a Catholic may not hold that a person has a right to procure an abortion.

                  However, as we get to less direct applications of moral principle to practical situations, there comes to be more room for disagreement. Perhaps a good way to look at this would be to sidestep for a moment our contemporary political issues and look at one of Thomas Aquinas’ more controversial prudential judgments: He held that although fornication was always wrong, and prostitution was necessarily an act of fornication (and thus acts of prostitution are always wrong), it was not necessarily prudent for the state to try to ban and stamp out the practice of prostitution, because trying to enforce such a ban would cause greater evils than not doing so.

                  http://the-american-catholic.com/2012/10/11/prudential-judgement/

                  • No Oxymoron, YOU are setting up the terms of the premise. I did not say or imply that Jesus said “we must give to the poor in such a way that pleases leftwing liberals and supports and enlarges an already bloated and inefficient federal government and only then are we truly giving.” I said nothing of the kind in fact. You are just dishonest.

                    Just as Jesus told his Disciples not to stop someone who was casting out demons, “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me.” We are tasked with getting the job done and sadly, the job has long ago outstripped our individual and even church ability. Now maybe your doctrine says it is then OK to let people suffer because you personally did your part, but that is not how I read the Bible message or the commands of Jesus.

                    An action which is intrinsically good when needed is something which is always and everywhere good when needed.

                    To use one of the standard examples: Feeding the hunger is an intrinsic good and no matter if I do it or the welfare office gives a voucher for it out of taxes collected for that purpose, or a group of woodcutters pitches in and pays for a feast, the person is still fed and that is still good.

                    I have not argued that abortion is “just”. I am not the one who decides “just”. It is not just to force a woman to carry a pregnancy either IMO.

                    • Your last sentence demonstrates you are in favor of abortion which if done outside the womb would be considered 1st degree murder

                    • Clearly the reason it would be a crime outside the womb is because of the dependence on the host mother who has rights and control of her pregnancy by law whether you like it or not. As in the Bible, your life begins at birth when you breathe on your own.

                      I make no secret that I support a woman’s right to choose whether to carry a pregnancy. Not your womb? Not your decision.

                  • “That special power of loving that belongs to a woman is seen most clearly when she becomes a mother. Motherhood is the gift of God to women. How grateful we must be to God for this wonderful gift that brings such joy to the whole world, women and men alike! Yet we can destroy this gift of motherhood, especially by the evil of abortion, but also be thinking that other things like jobs or positions are more important than loving, than giving oneself to others. No job, no plans, no possessions, no idea of ‘freedom’ can take the place of love. So anything that destroys God’s gift of motherhood destroys His most precious gift to women — the ability to love as a woman.”

                    “But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?”

                    “Please don’t kill the child. I want the child. Please give me the child. I am willing to accept any child who would be aborted and to give that child to a married couple who will love the child and be loved by the child.”

                    “Jesus said, ‘Anyone who receives a child in my name, receives me.’ By adopting a child, these couples receive Jesus but, by aborting a child, a couple refuses to receive Jesus.”

                    “We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, of killings, of wars, of hatred. If a mother can kill her own child, what is left but for us to kill each other.”

                    • Joe/Theo

                      You are a liar. You don’t care about the living. You only care about a collection of cells known as afetus. You are in favor of forced birth because you do not care what happens to that life after it is born.

                      If you did you would not be in favor of TrumpNoCare which will not provide neo-natal care to those fetuses because why should a man have to pay for insurance unique to women even though women are expected to pay for insurance for health care unique to men. “Turn you head and cough.”

                • “Bob cannot do the right thing if he supports a political party that does so much of the wrong thing.”
                  begging the question
                  You presented a circular argument in which the conclusion was included in the premise.

                  Love and peace,
                  Just Another Sinner

              • I see your point, except that there is a huge big hole in it. Why is it that you are willing to pay taxes to kill people when you aren’t willing to pay taxes to get them health care, food or housing? If you were a tax resistor, and weren’t willing to pay for war, and, on the other hand, would be willing to spend your time and effort helping people, then I’d totally respect you. But that’s not who you are, is it? You’re happy to have your tax dollars go to new and exciting ways to kill innocent people on the other side of the earth who are no more danger to us than some of our own citizens.

        • Not the government’s job to take care of people. Democrats are not helping anyone but themselves. They’re creating a voting block of government dependents. Then come election time they’ll use scare tactics such as “if the Republicans win you lose your government handouts.”

          • It is the government’s job to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic. Disease is our enemy and also those foreign and domestic, who cheat on elections. Seems like an awful lot of Republicans seem to be colluding with Russians who have purposefully damaged our free and fair election processes. Seems too that Republicans change the rules to get their way. What would they say if Democrats had the Majority and changed the rules from 60 some % to 51% to get their way. Hypocrites for sure.

        • In the words of John Palovitz, when they worked in another article.
          “Nowhere in the Bible are there requirements on who can and can’t claim faith in Jesus, and certainly no permissions are given to anyone to establish such requirements for anyone else.” He’s scratching itching ears, his “truth” tosses around like the waves.

        • “Nowhere in the Bible are there requirements on who can and can’t claim faith in Jesus, and certainly no permissions are given to anyone to establish such requirements for anyone else.” John Pavlovitz

        • No. Paul Ryan may claim to be a man of faith, his actions say otherwise. And Trump? Yes. Please pray for these individuals to be converted but in the meantime, a significant portion of the population need to be protected from their actions.

          • Agree on “pray for those individuals..” Who are we to deny others the opportunity to change for the better? We are not their judge. .Jesus did these same things – tried to protect his followers and the less fortunate from the evils of the world. He never said it would be easy or that we would be spared of the same challenges. He was sought down, hounded like a criminal, convicted of false crime, tortured in public and then murdered on a cross. – and forgave his enemies while continuing to suffer at their hands. Why do we deserve any less suffering when we stand by and do nothing while expecting our government to do everything? Jesus rose from the dead for us ALL, in hope of saving us ALL. Let’s not attempt to undo the one final hope we have for our world.

            • Hypocrisy, thy name is often Christian. Judge not. Really? Look at yourself. You judge someone every time you tell a woman she’s committed a sin of abortion. I probably am going to hell, if this isn’t it, but I can’t see Jesus condemning her when everything we do is what WE have to admit to God. You have condemned her already on your own belief. Stop worrying about everyone else’ sins and check your own. There must be one or two more besides this judgement thing.
              Thank you John for making us think.

      • Sorry Jimmy, but Obamacare is not the Holy Gospel and yes, it was doomed. More and more insurance companies were dropping out of it. The Republicans have done the Democrats a favor by taking the political risk here and doing work they would eventually have had to do. If any of them had spines, they would have voted along with the Republicans.

        Are you like your guru hoping they all go to Hell, or do you hope for their Salvation?
        —————————————————————–
        Paul Ryan’s Bishop:

        In his diocesan newspaper, Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin, an archconservative who has embraced the culture wars, said he was “proud” of Ryan’s accomplishments “as a native son and a brother in faith.” The congressman’s budget positions, he said, dealt with issues that Catholics of goodwill could disagree over because they simply involved matters of prudential judgment. In contrast, Bishop Morlino listed what he called “some of the most fundamental issues for the formation of a Catholic conscience” as “the sacredness of human life from conception to natural death, marriage, religious freedom and the formation of conscience, and a right to private property.” The bishop compared decisions involved in “how best to care for the poor,” with black-and-white “intrinsic evils” that include “abortion, euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide, same-sex marriage, government-coerced secularism, and socialism.” At a time when Ryan was the vice presidential candidate, it was a politically useful if theologically questionable argument.

        https://www.ncronline.org/news/politics/speaker-paul-ryans-catholic-challenge

        • What has happened with the Republican party that they no longer feel compassion for others? The sick, the elderly, the poor, the disabled? Our current president ran on the platform of making any new healthcare program “better, great” and every other superlative adjective I can think of. This jammed through, poorly thought out Trumpcare bill is clearly not better and will be catastrophic for the sick, the elderly, the poor, and the disabled — the most vulnerable in our society. So as a good Christian who genuinely cares about not just my family but others, I will not sleep tonight. How will you sleep, knowing that millions of American will now not have healthcare and that the legislation passed today is no improvement or replacement to the ACA. Rather than trying to improve the ACA, they have created a travesty.

          • Well said, M Ernst. “What has happened with the Republican party that they no longer feel compassion for others? The sick, the elderly, the poor, the disabled? ”

            Indeed I have even seen memes of Eisenhower and even Reagan advocating on behalf of the poor, the sick, etc. Since the GOP has abandoned their constituients in order to make the wealthy even wealthier. I started a Facebook group to combat evil.

            One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.

            https://www.facebook.com/groups/gloriamariesprogressivepetitions/

    • Please take off your blinders. The WH pervert is serving kool aid and his cult is drinking it by the gallons.

        • I was beginning to think the usual Pavlovitz apologists had the decency to not post in support of his disgraceful post. What kind of pastor wants people to go to hell?

          Do you support that? I don’t think they’re evil at all, but if I did, I wouldn’t hope they go to Hell. Don’t you pray for salvation of others instead of their damnation?

          • I think the gist of this is that there are times in anyone’s life when it just seems as though there is no justice. As John indicates, he is down but not out. Since praying to go to Hell does not actually work, it may qualify as a sin, but certainly no worse than the reason for the thought. If we aren’t willing to reach out and help all the people out there who need it, why not let the central issues be relieved by our taxes. We all pay for roads, NOAA, medical research, etc. Why is healthcare different? Because we can’t choose who qualifies? Did Jesus set qualifications when he said to feed the hungry, clothe the poor? Why do these supposed Christian representatives say that if a person can’t take care of themselves they’re on their own? Why do they worry about the unborn but don’t want to help them with food or education? There may not be a Bible verse quoted here, but it seems in my limited outlook to be what Jesus said.
            Thank you John. You keep me thinking.

            • It is because the new Republicans have a man-made ideological stricture that basically says that America was made great (they mean wealthy) solely by individual initiative, as if human cooperation played no part in American history. They believe the individual human initiative they worship is fired and propagated by fear and pain in life. If you will just leave a gutter alcoholic alone in the streets and near death, and not do anything to help him, he will have a moment of pain and fear of death so intense, that he will immediately spring to his feet (all on his own), quit drinking, and start a new business that will employ thousands of people.

              These Republicans who think like this are idiots, and I am not afraid to say it. Their ignorance of American history and social science is astounding—which in the end—means an American government founded on ignorance and fairy tales.

            • Roxy, you may not quote a Bible verse in your comment but you have mirrored the words of Jesus. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus comes to mind–

              Jesus was picturing the rich man suffering after he died in a kind of hell, for not helping Lazarus, in the parable.

              Seems to be the same idea Pavlovitz is describing here.

      • Denise: …. apparently Washington is full of perverts, Huma/ Hillary was sending classified emails to Carlos Danger (aka Anthony Weiner).

        • Anonymouse: Old story, but then what was Trump doing with those little hands? A religious woman forgives a husband, keeps a marriage going and raises a great daughter. Then loses to a man who cheated on at least two wives, children with three wives and brags about many things I’m sure you wouldn’t do. And don’t forget how he loves the dictators. And the religious right loves him. Probably explains a lot.

    • Notice the line “They won’t save a dying infant.”

      Yet he supports abortion. I guess some people’s value is based on their location.

      • I wonder if Pavlovitz and his sheep pray for pro-lifers to go to hell too. I think they might be confused enough to believe that when Planned Parenthood chops up babies they do the Lord’s work, but when someone opposes it, they’re evil “misogynists.”

        It’s an upside down world here.

    • Oh please, for centuries there were Christians themselves who got off on the idea that those they believed to be more sinful than themselves would burn in hell. The only thing they thought might send them to hell is if they didn’t sufficiently judge their neighbors.

      How else could they measure their own piety with out a bad guy. Hell is a major fear producing feature of the religion itself and always has been. The bible wouldn’t be popular as it is with out because we all know human nature, and it’s not always pretty.
      If you don’t know any better then why wouldn’t you fear a god who
      threatens you with eternal agony if do the slightest thing to annoy him.

      A god that is guilty of genocide and all manner of hateful things against his own creation. And ordering hateful things from his supporters would were all to happy to oblige.

      Do trump supporters ever do any research before they vote? Ryan the good family man? The Ayn Rand fan? His adoration for Any Rand should be enough to tell you where his real intentions lie.

      • Ayn Rand was pro-abortion and anti-Christian. I seriously doubt a good Catholic like Paul Ryan “adored” her. She did embrace and teach good economic principles however, and there’s nothing wrong with having respect for that.

        • Paul Ryan is on public record as being one of Ayn Rand’s greatest admirers. All you have to do is Google it. For example:

          https://thinkprogress.org/after-previously-praising-her-paul-ryan-now-disses-ayn-rand-i-reject-her-philosophy-f68eab3dc877

          First he liked her to suck up to his 10,000-miles-from- Jesus Republican friends, but now that he is in a high profile position where he could be hurt by Christians, he disses Ayn Rand as a matter of political convenience. All you have to do is look at his cruel actions—like those yesterday—to realize that he and Ayn rand are cuddled together in the same seat on a train—after kicking Jesus out the back of the caboose and onto the tracks.

          And yes. I know they do not use cabooses anymore.

          • Sometimes refuting the lies trolls tell is too too easy. Ayn Rand is clearly the god of Paul Ryan’s idolatry.

            7 Ways Paul Ryan Revealed His Love for Ayn Rand

            So, here are seven things Paul Ryan has done that suggest Ayn Rand has influenced him:

            1. Spent the Bush years demanding larger, more regressive tax cuts than Bush himself was proposing, urging them to be less afraid of “class warfare.”

            2. Spent the Obama years repeatedly proposing budgets that “would produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history.”

            In other words, Ryan’s entire legislative career.

            3. Listed Rand’s magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged, as one of the three books he most frequently rereads.

            4. Told The Weekly Standard, “I give out ‘Atlas Shrugged’ as Christmas presents, and I make all my interns read it.”

            5. Repeatedly divided American society into “makers” and “takers.”

            6. Declared that Rand’s thinking is “sorely needed right now” because we are “living in an Ayn Rand novel” and that “Ayn Rand, more than anyone else, did a fantastic job of explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and this, to me, is what is [sic] matters most.”

            7. Appeared at a gathering of Rand devotees and declared Rand’s philosophy was “the reason I got involved in public service,” that he makes it “required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff,” and that her philosophy continues to inspire “almost every fight we are involved in here, on Capitol Hill.”

            The entire piece may be read here:
            http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/7-ways-paul-ryan-revealed-his-love-for-ayn-rand.html

    • CTS-It’s not a Pastor’s job to save people…it’s God’s. We are commanded to love and care for them. Just saying.

    • No. Paul Ryan may claim to be a man of faith, his actions say otherwise. And Trump? Yes. Please pray for these individuals to be converted but in the meantime, a significant portion of the population need to be protected from their actions.

    • Hey misnomer, what about trying to save John P? Where is this Christian part of you as you gloat while this man of faith publicly wrestles with demons? Where is your empathy for the millions of people who stand to be hurt by the actions these politicians took?

      Why WOULD anyone wish an eternity of torment upon anyone? Wouldn’t such a thing be a clue to a Christian that this man is hurting, bewildered and in need of strength not ridicule and attacks? Yet you mock that pain and make it about your wants.

      You should try to understand how your very entity choice is a mockery of God. Maybe give a care for the one soul you are absolutely responsible for.

      • Donald Trump is a child of God and not a “mockery” of God. He’s not a spiritual leader, never claimed to be, and nobody who voted for him sees his as such. He was a much better alternative to crooked, pro-abortion Hillary.

        In criticizing Pavlovitz’ Trump-hatred to the extreme, we’re not wishing he go to Hell as he is wishing that on Trump and some of us. We are hoping he snaps out of it and does what a pastor should do. He’s leading his flock further astray by giving his tacit permission to demonize, hate, and condemn Trump and supporters.

        • Oh you mean like the Christian Right Party has led their flock further astray by giving their tacit permission to demonize, hate, and condemn the LGBTQ community and women who choose an abortion? Gotcha!

          • You’re very confused. You are comparing the Republican party to a religion. It’s not the job of the Republican party to save souls or preach about salvation. That’s what religious leaders are supposed to do. It could be however that you are confused because you see the Democratic party as your church and their policies as your doctrine.

            • Wrong again Oxymoron, I am not at all confused. The Republican Party has usurped and become the Christian Right Party without so much as a whimper of complaint from those in the pews.

              You keep comparing the teachings of Jesus to liberal doctrine so that is clearly how you define the distinction too. Even your chosen entity, mocks God and lifts up Trump.

              Why don’t you try telling the Christian Right Party what their job is and stop shilling for politics?

            • You, Joe/Theo/CTS are the biggest hypocrite there is on this blog. You distort, lie, and twist things to suit you own self-servings ends.

              “You are comparing the Republican party to a religion. It’s not the job of the Republican party to save souls or preach about salvation. ”

              You know as well as anyone else tht the Republican Party has insisted since the days of one of the gods of your idolatry, Reagan, proclaimed that if one is a Christian, the only political party to reflect Christian values is the GOP.

              So cease to be disingenuous immediately.

              • People like you are the hypocrites. Call out your buddy Chucky for his foul language posts that are all over this particular blog including calling Leslie m a “b*tch.”

                He’s the ultimate bully yet you liberals are silent.

                If you’re not going to say anything about Carlos, or the innocent life taken by planned parenthood every 97 seconds than you’re a stone cold hypocrite.

                • ” Call out your buddy Chucky for his foul language posts”

                  Joe/Theo: you are a LIAR

                  I have called Charles out for his language on more than one occasion.

                  I don’t call him out every time because some days I have mnore important things to do than read every single post to this blog.

                  Unlike you because , apparently you consider trolling this blog a full time job. But every time I’ve noticed Chrles use bad language I call him out.’

                  But you know what? You sound like a three year old in the snadbox telling his mommy that the other child started it first and mommy saying it doesn’t matter what the other kid did, you have to be a good little boy regardless.

                  Stop playing attention to the sins of others and obey Jesus by attending to your own sins.

                  • You say I should stop paying attention to the sins of others yet you call Joe a bully and a hypocrite.

                    Sounds like you are focusing on his rather than your own, GA.

                    If Charles was a conservative you’d be all over him and would request JP to boot him.

                • Even if that is true PBH, you are still not pro-life either, only forced birth. That just means we are hypocrites TOO. The only thing is, I know that an aborted fetus, if it is life, goes straight to God. The unwanted, abused, hungry, homeless or dirt poor babies who get born have to go through the earthly version of hell before they can have that peace. And you contribute.

                  • I guess my household’s involvement in a local crisis pregnancy center doesn’t meet your pro life standard.

                    Doesn’t matter. You want abortion legal. Liberals like you call out conservatives yet you are desensitized to the deaths of the innocent. Have you seen images of an abortion? Grotesque. No true Christian could possibly support something so heinous.

                    • No sir, it meets your pro-birth standard. Being pro-life means doing more than removing choice from the equation.

                      I actually believe in freedom, liberty and privacy so yes, I want abortion to remain legal, but I want EVERY SINGLE WAY we can end abortion, short of using the force of law, to help women choose life and bring that life into a world that will care for it.

                      You are the one “desensitized to the deaths of the innocent” and your death is slower and much more cruel for most of them. Have you seen images of hungry children, abused children? Have you seen the prisons and mental wards full of unwanted children raised with societal indifference and cut funds? Aborted babies go to God born babies can be tortured by a bad life until they are ruined. No true Christian could possibly support something so heinous, but the Christian Right Party manages.

                    • You have conditions on freedom and liberty based on someone’s location. No Christian could possibly support this or want it legal.

                    • Wrong again PBH, I am allowing that the natural course of freedom, liberty and personal privacy has to allow for the choice of abortion, sterilization or even suicide, because it does. Unlike you, I do not want to control anyone’s body.

                      It is you who wants “to play “god” by deciding for women. You have no right.

                    • While you want to play “god” on who should live the conservatives you people hate are leading the way in foster care and adoptions.

              • ad hominem
                You attacked your opponent’s character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.
                appeal to authority
                You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.

                Just Another Sinner

        • Everyone is a child of G-d so Trump is not special in that regard. Trump is not even a Christian, or at least there is really no evidence of it. Believe it or not Hillary Clinton is a Methodist and trying to follow her faith, but she is corrupted by the wealthy of Wall Street and alleged to be playing fast and loose with Top Secret information. Because of her sins we elect someone who is the anti-thesis of Christ and the Conservative Christian churches call Trump “G-d’s own man”? Someone who believes being tough, uncaring, full of hubris, attention seeking, impulsive, America first and only, punitive, and believe in “alternate facts” is fit for the Presidency let alone be supported by Christians?

          “God’s own man” can grab p***ies and barge in on underage naked Miss America contestants and brag about it? “God’s own man” can ridicule a handicapped report? “God’s own man” can advocate “roughing up” protesters at his rally and spew hateful things in his rallies?

          I don’t think we see eye-to-eye on this….at…all!

          • No, everyone is not a “Child of God!” The Bible makes a clear distinction between the “Children of God” and the “Children of the Devil”. You only become a child of God when you’ve been adopted into the family of God through the agency of the New Birth.

            • Correcto. In the bible it says, ‘you have the right to become a Child of God.’ If you have to ‘become’ something , that means you are not that ‘thing’ yet.

            • We are ALL children of God because God created us. Even Jesus said to Peter get behind me Satan. We seem to be more like children of Satan when we do and say evil things.

              Children of the Devil was a cultural saying which fundamentalists take literally because they don’t know how to read the ancient text of the Bible in it’s cultural context.

    • Regardless of what I , YOU , we think
      God has set in place a temporary stop to his judgement on mankind . Obama was so anti God , He let everything Except God into the white house.
      Now its time to fix , the mess , He obama created right under the nose of the stupid american people who were sooooo caught up in the party , they did not see it coming and put NO Controls in place to STOP the godless actions of the democrats who were on the TAKE paid for what they did. by foriegn governments
      Follow the money Trails see that this is true in the disclosures

  5. I don’t see how there can’t be a hell, if one believes in free will. Those who have heard the Gospel, claim to follow and even represent Jesus in the world, and, yes, believe in a Hell for those who do evil yet actively CHOOSE to do evil and live contrary to what Jesus commands have separated themselves from God. They have chosen the worldly rewards of power, status, comfort, money, etc. Worse, they often make themselves the arbiters and gatekeepers of God’s grace and favor, using the Scriptures. They have chosen.

    I belueve that God reaches out with live to the very last moment, wanting to bring lost souls back. But, for some, pride is too much. As we see in the story of Lucifer. Yes, there is a Hell for souls such as these. They indeed would rather rule in Hell than serve and sing praises in Heaven, just as they refuse to serve on Earth.

  6. 2 Timothy 3:1-17 NASB
    [1] But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. [2] For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, [3] unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, [4] treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, [5] holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. [6] For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, [7] always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. [8] Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. [9] But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes’s and Jambres’s folly was also. [10] Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, [11] persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! [12] Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. [13] But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. [14] You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, [15] and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [17] so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

  7. I have never lived in fear of what our President will do. Even when my church was telling me that President Obama is the anti-Christ. I laughed at them. Now, now I am scared. I feel often times that I am alone. I don’t want to go to church. Too many Trump lovers. I don’t want to visit friends and family. Too many Trump lovers. It isn’t Trump and Trump alone. It’s what we’ve become. No, I don’t live in fear now, yet I am scared for my friends and family members that are LGBTQ. My friends that aren’t “Christian”. My 72 year old mom (that fell for voting for him, btw). Our nation. Am I alone in feeling this way?

    • Nope-many of us are right with you, Marti. Mortified, embarrassed, fearful, disgusted, etc. What 45 (& crew) does and represents so goes against my faith.

      • There are honestly days I find myself grieving, Cathy. The grieving is almost as intense as when I lost one of my students to cancer. I keep thinking I am going nuts. I wish I lived in an area that wasn’t so taken with 45’s insolent ways. I don’t get it.

        • Hear ya, Marti. You are not going nuts, you see the insanity and care. It is tough on the heart. We will fight for right & better. Thankfully I’m surrounded by lots of folks that feel as we do. Thank you for caring~ sending solidarity and a hug your way!

    • Marti, You are absolutely not alone. But I understand the feeling. It’s like living on two different planes of existence but occupying the same planet. I get it.

    • Marti. I hear you! You are not alone. It IS something to be grieved. A terrible loss of realizing your friends and neighbors, church, etc. are not what you thought they were. It’s devastating. I feel really alone here where I live, surrounded by trumpsters and basically snubbed or felt sorry for because I think differently. Like someone said before, “I’d rather die of a bleeding heart than die of a cold one.” (Speaking of the tired label, ‘Bleeding heart liberal’.) On that note, I am proud to be liberal in the sense that I would rather err on the side of mercy and love than cold-hearted legalism and cold hate cloaked in righteousness.

    • Read, Research, Test, Find out , Look Diligently
      See if the Truth will set you Free.
      Ask God, Cry out for him to open eyes so you can see,
      God is Truth, not politics , Dont Trust the media.
      Look it up. Google , Test it out
      See if You can prove out the Truth.

  8. My heart is so heavy today as they celebrated in the rose garden. I am so weary of the daily fights as they totally dismantle everything. I have to hope that love will win but at what cost????

  9. 2 Peter 3:3-9 NASB
    [3] Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, [4] and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” [5] For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, [6] through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. [7] But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. [8] But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. [9] The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

      • Yes, truth, how I love truth. Truth can set you free or truth can make some angry because truth convicts. Finally people are coming forward in numbers on this blog exposing John P. As a false teacher. Who we vote for President is ones choice, that is not the real issue here, it’s the hatred thats resulted that’s so tragic. If it had been another person in the Republican party who had won the election would there still be the hate? All the Republican candidates if I remember correctly were pro life and believed in marriage between a man and a woman only. So I can only conclude that person would be hated also. Truth
        convicts. Here’s food for thought ” We listen to each other to formulate our own beliefs instead of going to God’s word for truth.”

  10. Revelation 6:1-17 NASB
    [1] Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.” [2] I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. [3] When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come.” [4] And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him. [5] When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, “Come.” I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. [6] And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.” [7] When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.” [8] I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth. [9] When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; [10] and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” [11] And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also. [12] I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; [13] and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. [14] The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. [15] Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; [16] and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; [17] for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

  11. I’ve been having a rough day today as many caring and loving people are…..but I wanted to thank you John for all your comforting words…How can I help you…

  12. that God would not defend His name
    why should we be forced to do the same
    what evil that man has done today
    let our cries be heard
    and the universe, in kind, repay

  13. I’m so angry and I’m crying, crying for those who are ill and can’t afford healthcare, for the elderly who won’t be able to afford healthcare (and as I approach my 70s, a likelihood for me), those who have children and family who are sick and dying and won’t be able to afford healthcare; women who have been raped or who are pregnant who will be told they have a “pre-existing” condition which they can’t then afford to treat. And I’m asking myself what kind of people can do that to other human beings. I don’t understand it. I don’t want to believe that people could be evil. I want to believe that in everyone there is goodness. And I’m having a hard time. Hannah Arendt in her study of the Nazis discovered that they were actually nice people – nice, that is, to their family and friends, while conducting genocide on the Jews, gays, gypsies. Is this what is going on here? Is this a form of genocide whereby they get rid of the poor, the weak, the elderly? It certainly seems like it, because for sure many many people are going to die. Hell is too easy. Karma, coming back to experience what you’ve done to others, sounds better.

    • You say exactly what I have been saying and feeling. I am 75, so most of my life is behind me but I have children and grandchildren and I fear for them. Peace and Love,

  14. Here’s what I wrote in some replies as well as my Facebook feed:

    “Then the Devil, disguised as Jesus, took Christian leaders of America to the top of the Washington Monument and told them ‘I will give you dominion over this country as long as you continue to worship me.’ The Christian leaders, thinking that they were revering Jesus, did as he said and bowed down. After He left, he returned to his throne celebrating with the demons saying ‘They fell for it.'”

    • Beware of the False leaders, who will lie, cheat, steal, tell doctrines of demons. and they will justify all the evil they do so they don’t feel bad and don’t have to deal with their conscience.
      God is not Stupid, unaware, out to lunch, or not here.
      The lord God See’s all those who do such deeds and will reward accordingly.
      Trust that God will reward those who do Evil with Evil. and those who do Good with Good, He is JUST not Fair.

  15. 1. Near death experiences would indicate that we all have a life review in which we experience what we have done, also from the vantage point of people we have affected, for good and ill. This is for our growth in understanding and compassion.

    2. NDEs also suggest there are hellish states we are locked into by our own bigotry, hatred, lust, fear, addiction — though in every case, Christ and the angels are close by to rescue us, as indeed Christ did when he descended into hell and preached the Gospel to the dead. I believe that after a time, hell will be empty.

    3. Our elected officials who voted against the poor and sick are indeed under judgment — may God have mercy.

    4. I hope the Senate does not vote to favor the monstrous provisions of this bill.

  16. John, this is one post that I disagree most strongly.
    Your hope is built on the very same criteria that you are whipping the so called christians with.
    All I can say is STOP IT!!!

        • Way to be “passionate about being compassionate.”

          All you do is run your mouth about how “funnies” are hypocrites yet you like your cult leader John Pavlovitz hate all things conservative.

          You’re no different than the people you criticize.

          Get a life. You’re a terrible example for your kids.

        • John,

          I love what you are doing here! I used love to get my flock to replace God with me but that was the ’70’s man and we were all about peace and love. You got the right tactic here, the society your in definitely glorifies hate and venomous vengeance! I can’t imagine what I would have been able to accomplish with the internet. Man, I have one suggestion when you’re ready to create your own community, choose a country with small government that doesn’t extradite. It really sucks when you have to spike the communion kool-aid and kill off your entire congregation. Man, you are just radical! I love how you take in the money by promising covetted time with thier leader. Man you are a god among men, but I think I did it better. You got Jim Jones 100%. Approval!

          Peace & love,

          Jim Jones

          • Only someone with a diseased mind would claim to be Jim Jones from the seventies.

            Only someone without a shred of compassion would claim to be Jim Jones in order to mock John P.

            There are those of us who lost loved ones in that massacre and you dare to mock our grief?

            Get to a psychiatric unit stat.

      • Of course you do leslie m, you cannot withstand the measure of the teachings of Jesus being applied. We all know that.

        • Pray your enemies receive salvation rather than hell then you can talk about people disobeying Jesus’s teachings

          • Hey self-righteous PBH, show me where I said anything about praying my enemies to hell? I said human vipers because that was the word Jesus used. And I meant it. I do not know how you people can condemn a child to hunger but won’t even claim human vipers should go to hell. Even after Jesus said it!

            • Here’s what you said this morning (I cut and paste)

              “I pray all human vipers go to hell”

              Care to explain that hateful comment?

              I suppose sponsoring a child through Compassion International means I’m condemning children to death via starvation because government will solve their problems.

              At least I’m not in favor of their death.

              Jesus doesn’t want people in hell. That’s why he went to the cross.

              • Dear PBH, I have already explained that comment that any Bible reading Christian would have recognized as a paraphrase of the words of Jesus. If it was good enough for Jesus to say, I think I am on solid ground.

                Maybe you need to stop patting yourself on the back and realize that as long as your contribution to ending abortion is voting to force a woman to carry, you are in favor of more death. We have been bringing the abortion numbers down and we can do more. Support funding for comprehensive sex education, funding for child and mother care which will see a child raised and THEN I will believe you are pro-life.

                I never said Jesus wants people in hell. But he did say that some would go there. I pray that it is only the deserving that go.

                • Your explanation is unbiblical and nonsensical. You want people to go to Hell. That’s the bottom line.

                  You also worship at the feet of the government. How many trillions were spent on the war on poverty?

                  When this country goes belly up because it can’t sustain itself due to government programs maybe you’ll understand then that the Church is to fulfill this not the government.

                  • The church cannot fulfill this—and never did. That is why government programs came into being. The churches do not take in enough money to help the sick. I am a member of a large United Methodist Church, and we take in only enough money to pay the pastor, keep the lights on, and help a very few people in need with very little resources. What you really want is for “the least of these” to die in the streets—because that is precisely what would happen if these government programs were taken away. So, in the name of Jesus, GFY Joe before Jesus takes his turn at you on down the pike.

                  • PBH, you can continue to lie and go round and round as you like. I already said I want human vipers to go to hell and I already proved that is a Biblical thing. Funny how you are happy to use a few verses to condemn the LGBTQ community and even deny them equal treatment but my very obvious use of very specific verses has you sputtering. Very telling.

                    Tell me, when you use a toilet, are you “worshiping” it? When you work within a group for a goal, are you worshiping them? Do you feel as silly as you sound yet?

                    If this country ever “goes belly up” it will not be “because it can’t sustain itself due to government programs” that help people. And no I did not see the Biblical proof that government cannot do anything for the people. If Jesus said Caesar could never do us a sold, I missed it. Want to point it out to me?

                    Show me where Jesus ever said there was only one way to achieve his commandments and fulfill his expectations. Did Jesus only favor rulers who sang for him in your opinion?

              • I agree with most of John’s thoughts as a very human and struggling Christian. But on this topic, I can’t go along.
                I can’t justify praying or hoping that anyone goes to hell. It’s against all I’ve been taught about forgiveness.
                Yes, there are a lot of heartless, apathetic people in charge right now with a lot of ignorant followers….but I don’t feel any less a sinner than they are.
                “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
                Right?

                • Mr Whynott, you are right. But John is just being honest about his feelings, not saying they are right. When we are raised in an atmosphere of condemnation and us versus them, its hard to get away from this nasty fundamentalist thinking even if you switch sides.

                  • Exactly right, and if they would read it with an open mind they will find the he says he is going to have to do some praying because of the way he feels. I feel the same, and I am very honest about it, he was showing his very human side. I personally like someone who can be that honest knowing that there are people just waiting to pounce with their condemnation. Peace and Love,

  17. I posted “Sympathy for the Devil” on my Facebook page last night–calling it an anthem for our times. Evil is here. Sadly I saw signs before the election and was one of the few of my friends who was afraid Trump would win. But I prayed the American People might surprise God. That there might be “ten good men.” With that analogy I am of course not suggesting Trump is a punishment; only a natural consequence. The worst is the evil in the church. And the mockery of Trump’s Executive Order and the supporting church leaders. For me it is blasphemy. It is taking God’s name in vain. Besides calling out the act for what it is…besides praying…besides calling for the Holy Spirit to cleanse me, guide me…I keep wanting to conduct some kind of ritual. An exorcism of sorts, I guess. Light candles. Burn incense. I live in the mountains of Utah….run to the top and call out for God. Thank you for being a community with which I can share. I pray for strength, guidance, clarity and endurance for all of us.

    • I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I long to be with a community of believers who understand the realities of the situation. But we’re all fragmented…spread across a country in turmoil and drowning on our lonely, small islands. Today was more painful to behold for those of us who profess Christ and yet reject the hateful political machine that has become the evangelical church. Painful…

    • Pray, Cry out to God, Repent, Turn to , Get rid of all that would take your heart from God, As you pray, God will bring people to lead you .
      Find people who build you up, strengthen you in the Truth, Know the Bible, Read the bible, teach from the whole bible.
      YOU have to really want to , to change
      Not easy, I have been there. takes a lot of your past life away and it is not easy to say no to others or sin that leads to death.
      God will answer and meet the needs of those who call out to him wholeheartedly. God is love, Forgiving, Holy , Just

    • Agreed.

      Finally a pastor has given me the permission I’ve been secretly craving to allow my disdain for Trump and all who voted for him to boil over into hatred and rage. I hope we Christians who follow Pavolovitz’ way of love get front row seats to watch the Devil and his demons push Trump, and Ryan and all the Trumpsters screaming into the fiery pit. It will be so friggin awesome!

      • Sorry you have not idea what a godless nation we were to become under Hillary and the rest of the democrats.
        Godless , with no evidence of God in anything we do, say, show the world.

        Judgement would follow any nation who reject God, His commands

        God is a Jealous God and Judges the nation s who are against him to the 3& 4 generation.
        Judgement is for those who HATE God,
        Salvation is for those who LOVE GOD

  18. Jesus desires for not one to perish, no not one. Jesus called people to change, he pointed out individuals flaws who approached Him. Jesus saw into the hearts of people and spoke to them, He warned them with love. I don’t care what someone does they deserve compassion. Where is your love? Where is your compassion? I really don’t understand a pastor denying the Bible and saying he hopes anyone goes to hell. I believe all are worthy of forgiveness. Reading the post there is such hate and anger but I don’t hear an alternative solution to help solve the problems? Are you really just condemning people for a different belief than you? As a pastor how could you not know the world was going into get much, much, much worse before the meek inherit the earth? Is there a better way to do things? Can you write a legitamit bill that would make everything ok? Have you read the new policies? How do you know they are so much worse? Can you detail the differences and why? Is it possible it might not be the end of the world? I honestly don’t know all the answers but I know the hatred in the post is sad and not accepting of others.

    Sincerely
    Humility Grace Mercy

    • Let me ask you this, HGM – where is the GOP’s compassion? They just voted to throw the sick, the elderly, women and people with chronic health conditions under the bus. All so that they can gift billionaires with tons of cash. People who already have more money than they could burn through in 10 lifetimes are getting more shoveled at them, while the rest of us are told to “die quicker”. Here’s one thing out of so many that make me wish that every last one of those bastards goes straight to Hell after dying a most painful death: My husband is diabetic, and a cancer survivor. If the cancer comes back, we may not be able to get insurance coverage for him under these rules. Now, the out-the-door cost of all his treatments and surgeries, as near as we could tell, exceeded a million dollars. If we have to pony that up ourselves, it would leave us dead flat broke – and if he then died, it would leave me penniless in my old age. We have worked very hard and saved a lot to make sure that we can provide for ourselves under normal circumstances. But if this were to happen, and he dies, we don’t have children that I can turn to for help. I’ll be out on the street. Does that sound fair and humane to you? What IS it about you Republicans and Bible-thumpers that you are constitutionally unable to feel empathy? Nope – as long as you’ve got yours, the rest of us can twist in the wind. All I can do is repeat my sincere belief that when Judgment Day comes, you people are going to be mightily surprised to discover that you don’t stand nearly as high in the Lord’s estimation as you like to flatter yourselves!

      • This is just a starting point. Now the Senate will work on it. It’s not finished. Nobody is dying because of the vote yesterday.

      • Sandi,

        Take heart, nothing is written in stone yet and the new plan will cost more for pre-existing conditions but they still will be covered, I know financially just the cost of insurance can be overwhelming. Know God is Lord of all, lay your worries on Him and He will care for all your needs.

        I’m sorry for your difficulty with your husband and his health issues. I know the stress of an illness is hardest on the caregiver. If you ever need any help or support of any kind contact Just Another Sinner and I through justanothersinner.org. Financial support, just an ear to listen to or anything in-between we will be there for you.

        Sincerely with,

        Humility Grace Mercy

        • Susan,

          I meant the last post for you. Of course if you need anything Sandi the offer of love is still there. Susan I wanted to reach out to you because the caregiver role is such a heavy weight to carry and us often money and thankless. Susan, I will pray for you and your husband

          Sincerely,

          Humility Grace Mercy

        • HGM, I do take heart that the Senate is not so full of hate and idiocy, but not much. But I think that comment was not meant to be to me. I have shared nothing about my husband or how this bill will affect me.

          I know it is tens of millions of folks though, so it sure could be.

      • Susan,

        Take heart, nothing is written in stone yet and the new plan will cost more for pre-existing conditions but they still will be covered, I know financially just the cost of insurance can be overwhelming. Know God is Lord of all, lay your worries on Him and He will care for all your needs.

        I’m sorry for your difficulty with your husband and his health issues. I know the stress of an illness is hardest on the caregiver. If you ever need any help or support of any kind contact Just Another Sinner and I through justanothersinner.org. Financial support, just an ear to listen to or anything in-between we will be there for you.

        Sincerely with,

        Humility Grace Mercy

        • Well, so speaks someone with more money than sense. If they can barely afford insurance now , how the heck are they going to afford insurance if it goes up because of a preexisting condition. Do you people have no shame at all.

          • The truth is I understand the cost of insurance is daunting. I had to decide between rent and insurance under the current plan. I have no insurance now, I don’t wish my predicament on anyone. Although I trust God completely and know His promise to care for me. I make minimum wage and am a single mother and every penny counts. I trust God above all things and He has never failed to keep his promise to me.

            Sincerely with
            Humility Grace Mercy

  19. Thank you for this article, it reflects how I feel perfectly. I don’t like feeling this way but I’m hard pressed to feel any compassion or understanding towards those who voted for this bill or those who voted to put that man in the White House.

    • In my Church we hope for the salvation of all and pray for those who we think are in sin or doing wrong. We hope and pray for their conversion and not their damnation. I suppose in Pavlovitz’ loving approach to Christianity things are a little different.

      • No misnomer, you really don’t. You tell yourselves and the world that is what you pray for, but it is not what you live, clearly it is not how you vote. What you need to remember is that God knows your heart and God sees your mockery.

        What happened when Jacob wrestled all night?

          • As Republicans Cheered Obamacare’s Repeal, The Law’s Beneficiaries Worried About Survival
            “I keep wondering why they want to kill me.”

            Meanwhile, those actually dependent on Obamacare were anxiously wondering what happens next. Some of them were following the action on the House floor while in their doctor’s offices receiving treatment.

            The House bill will almost certainly not become law in its current form. But its passage portends a sharp turn away from the patient protections and coverage subsidies that they have come to rely on in Obamacare’s brief existence. The bill dramatically cuts Medicaid coverage, to the tune of $840 billion less. It also undermines the provisions that prevent insurers from discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions by allowing states to seek waivers that would eliminate rules prohibiting higher premiums for people with serious medical problems.

            For those who stand to be hurt by these reforms, Thursday left them both fearful about their own medical futures and motivated to act politically.

            These are their stories.

            Coverage After The Loss Of A Spouse: Marianthe Poulianos, Florida

            A self-employed attorney, Poulianos and her two children relied on her husband’s health insurance plan until he died unexpectedly at the age of 41. Her kids were 7 and 10 years old. They all relied on COBRA to get by. When that ended, so did their insurance.

            “Obamacare came along at just the right time,” she said. Without it, she would either have had to take a job in a law firm or change careers. But finding a new job with less flexibility would have been tough, since her kids “really needed me.”

            Poulianos says her current insurance coverage is reasonably priced with quality care provided. As she watched the House vote, she felt “demonized.”

            I’m not sure why I should. I went to school, got married, had kids, worked, employed people, made my children my priority. My husband died and today I feel as if my family is being punished for that. I hear more tragic stories than ours ― people with sick children, pre-existing conditions etc. But I believe that my type of story is part of what’s really devastating and wrong about today as well.
            ‘I Keep Wondering Why They Want To Kill Me’: Jacqueline Church Simonds, Nevada

            In 2010, Simonds began having bizarre, scary health episodes. She was hospitalized for five days but lacked insurance; she and her husband ran their own business, and his pre-existing conditions made him uninsurable. She was able to negotiate down the $42,000 bill, but she still needed her parents’ help to pay the remaining $18,900.

            The following year, she became sick again. Her surgeon told her she needed a couple of feet of her colon removed or she would die. When she told the medical staff she simply wasn’t able to pay for such an operation, they informed her about the Affordable Care Act. She signed up for coverage and had the operation. To this day, she remains sick, recently receiving the diagnosis of Crohn’s disease. And she suspects she will need more operations.

            I keep wondering why they want to kill me.

            Why are rich people so much more important than I am that their tax cuts are more important than my health? How can people vote to “improve” healthcare, but make themselves immune from the effects? So, you want to know how I feel about AHCA? I am thoroughly, implacably angry.

            I would be out in the streets with a pitchfork and torch, if I felt well enough to leave the house (but I don’t). So I will sit here at my computer and figure out ways to get out the vote.

            How Could Christians Do This?: Stacy Jarrell, Florida

            “I’m somewhere between totally pissed off and sick to my stomach right now. And I’m scared,” Jarrell told HuffPost shortly after Thursday’s vote. She’s 54 and widowed and petrified about losing her health care. Years before, she said, a doctor misread a mammogram that allowed insurers to label her as having a pre-existing condition. Obamacare came along and gave her solace. She makes under $40,000 a year and gets a subsidy to help purchase insurance on the Obamacare exchange in her state.

            As a Christian I can’t understand how these people that claim to follow Christ could support, let alone pass, a law that will kill people. While I believe in a separation of church and state, I also believe that as human beings, moral and ethical people need to take care of those that can’t take care of themselves.

            The last thing I’m feeling is resolve. If they think there was a resistance before… they have absolutely no idea how this vote has motivated us.

            More stories may be read here:
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obamacare-repeal-survival_us_590bdabee4b0104c734da8b9

            • Government involvement in health care concerns me. I don’t care what party it is.

              I’m definitely not celebrating what happened yesterday.

              • Yeah, God forbid that a sick person should get well on government money. They should just go ahead and die so more government money will be available for corporate welfare and the one percent.

                GFY Joe.

                • Get a job and do something productive so you can be on the giving instead of the receiving end of the government money gravy train.

      • Hoping people go to hell? From a pastor’s wife no less. Wow. You din’t learn anything or they preached some very weird stuff in your church.

        • Don’t you hope that bad people who hurt millions of others deliberately do not get rewarded with Heaven?

          • I hope and pray for the conversion of every person, regardless of any bad things they did. If Hitler were on his death bed in front of me I would be praying for his soul. I would reason with him as best I could if her were conscious. I would implore him to request a priest to visit him and make his Confession.

            There was no greater crime than nailing Christ to the Cross, yet he prayed for their conversion and not their damnation. We are to follow that example, even thought it might be tempting at times to hope for the worst for some people, though to hope that for a good man like Paul Ryan is very weird.

            • 1) I don’t believe you and 2) I don’t think that is how God sees it. How convenient for man that a lifetime of inflicting cruel harm to others can be wiped out with a prayer.

              I think some rude awakenings await.

              • Moses, David, and Saul of Tarsus are the 3 most important people in the Bible after Jesus and they were murderers.

                Would you rather they went to hell?

                Heaven has plenty of murderers that repented. For example, David Berkowicz (Son of Sam) is now a Christian. That shows how amazing God’s love is for us!

                • So PBH, you are saying that a murderer is a human viper? Not being God, I cannot confirm or deny that, but as you say, all can repent, even murderers. Again, I am not God so I do not determine who goes to hell.

                  Calling yourself a Christian does not make it true. Repentance or hell is not my call. Why do you think it is?

                  • You are correct Jesus rebuked some Pharisee’s because He knew thier heart. He could read thier minds and hearts. He rebuked them by pointing out (with specific scripture) where they had failed (with specific scripture). You rebuke me for everything I say but do not tell me where I have failed to follow not only the letter of the Law of God but the spirit of Jesus. Jesus said some harsh things but always said in love. Jesus cried out. “WOE” describe the sins, where the Pharasies were failling, then Jesus cried “when will you repent!”. Jesus want them to accept Him and avoid hell! Is that your point? Can you see in the hearts of people? Is the ultimate goal here for all to admit they are incomplete without Jesus and accept Him as thier Lord and Savior so they can be saved and have eternal life with God?

                    Sincerely,

                    Hannah G Mills
                    571-420-3666
                    hgm1979@aol.com
                    HGM

                    Luke 11:14-23 NASB
                    [14] And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed. [15] But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.” [16] Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven. [17] But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls. [18] If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. [19] And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges. [20] But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. [21] When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. [22] But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder. [23] He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters.

                    • HGM: you are (an awesome) courageous young woman of God. A light wherever you go. May God continue to bless you!

          • I pray even your friends, abortion doctors, are saved.

            Saul of Tarsus was a terrorist to the early Church.

            The unsaved are enemies of God. I was an atheist once. An enemy of God. The Christians you hate reached out to me in college. They preached Christ and Him crucified and the need to repent and turn to Jesus.

            People going to hell is not a good thing. If we want that then perhaps we too are hateful.

        • God is Slow to Wrath and anger so that all may have a chance to repent , change , turn to him . God wants no one to go to HELL , They choose it.
          People choose what , where they go. God is Free ,

          Slow to anger, Slow to wrath, quick to show Love and Forgiveness

  20. The U.S. House of Representatives just voted to strip away the health insurance of my wife and my two kids. None of you know my wife and two kids—but they are great people most of you would be happy to know.

    • You know this will happen how? You will be totally locked out? What is the evidence for that? Are you getting it for free? Maybe you’ll have to pay something, but it will be affordable. Maybe you should get a job?

    • The ACA led to our insurance premiums increase and have less coverage. Not to mention the impact on small business owners who are negatively impacted.

      The ACA is a disaster. Hopefully this does not make the problem worse.

      • God forbid that a small business owner should be inconvenienced by 26,000,000 poor, sick people. You use the words “small business owners” as if they are something sacred that should be beyond touch. I have a message for you and all American small business owners—GFY—and I will do business with your competitors instead.

        • It’s small business owners that are a big part of the driving force of the economy. How can government run health care sustain itself considering the significant debt Obama added? It can’t!

          Get a clue, Charles. You do a great job of hating people. Not sure how your family can stand having a hateful person like you around.

      • In truth Anonymous, insurance premiums increased before Obamacare too and we have more coverage, not less. Business still gets the write off. Employees are paying more too. You all wanted “skin in the game” remember?

        Obamacare inadvertently hurt a couple million, Trumpcare will deliberately hurt tens of millions. The “disaster” is yet to come.

      • And you know the biggest reason the ACA floundered? Because the greedy insurance companies decided they weren’t making boatloads of money off of it, so it wasn’t worth their time. After all, it’s far more important that their CEO’s are able to buy second, third and fourth vacation homes, or perhaps a yacht, than it is for people to be able to take care of the health of themselves and their loved ones.

  21. John, I am so sorry you are suffering. This level of rage is sickening,maybe even poisonous.

    I certainly agree about the wrongness and I’m terrified too. But all I can do is be kind, be helpful in my own little space and hope I’m adding my bit to the forces of good that are rising against this horror. Making ourselves sick with anger is punishing ourselves, rather than the bad people. Take a break. Go do something lovely for yourself. And when you see something you can do, do that.

    I have to add that I’m lucky to live in a place where anti-Trump sentiment is strong. I’m certainly not isolated.

      • Yes Anonymous, he is revealing his pain, bewilderment, anger and the demons he is wrestling with and you are still here mocking and insulting. How Christian of you.

          • Could be Anonymous, again, it is not our decision. I can pray that a lot of things happen…none of them will unless God decides it.

      • Yes leslie m, I am sure if he reads these posts, your support and encouragement as a Christian will be a beacon for him. How could they not be?

    • Emily. Being quiet and believing that you have no power and no voice is exactly what Anonymous and Leslie want you to believe, so they can screw over as many people as possible in the name of Jesus, do so without opposition, and expect to get rewarded for it in Heaven one day. In my opinion, they are all children of Satan—and your silence enables them. You do have a voice—and Jesus requires you to use it in speaking up for the 26,000,000 poor people who are about to lose their health insurance so well-to-do people like Leslie can live fatter, dumber, and happier with their roots dug into their decaying bodies

  22. This post is so alarming I have to send this, John.

    What does progressive Christianity have to say about the concept of hell that seems so central to so many other forms of historic and current Christianity?

    Answer: By Roger Wolsey

    Dear Reader,
    That is an excellent question and we progressive Christians really would do well to have some thought out responses when our more evangelical friends ask us about these matters – as well as our agnostic, atheist, and spiritual but not religious friends ask us this same question. As with so many things, progressive Christianity doesn’t have any official stance about this, but it does seem to be the case that most progressive Christians do not have a concept of hell as part of their faith and practice. I cannot speak for all of progressive Christianity, but I can share how this progressive Christian understands things – hell isn’t even part of the Bible and shouldn’t be a part of Christianity. To be blunt about it, let me repeat, Hell isn’t Christian – or Jewish. It’s pagan.
    “The modern English word Hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period, and ultimately from Proto-Germanic *halja, meaning “one who covers up or hides something”.[2] The word has cognates in related Germanic languages such as Old Frisian helle, hille, Old Saxon hellja, Middle Dutch helle (modern Dutch hel), Old High German helle (Modern German Hölle), Danish, Norwegian and Swedish helvede/helvete (hel + Old Norse vitti, “punishment” whence the Icelandic víti “hell”), and Gothic halja.[2] Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[2] (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna). Some have theorized that English word hell is derived from Old Norse hel.[2] However, this is very unlikely as hel appears in Old English before the Viking invasions. Furthermore, the word has cognates in all the other Germanic languages and has a Proto-Germanic origin.[3] Among other sources, the Poetic Edda, compiled from earlier traditional sources in the 13th century, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, provide information regarding the beliefs of the Norse pagans, including a being named Hel, who is described as ruling over an underworld location of the same name.”
    Jesus didn’t speak of Hell, but rather, of Gehenna, as a potential punishing realm for those deemed unworthy. Gehenna was the name of the burning garbage pits outside of Jerusalem. Jesus was speaking in hyperbole in such instances – as a teaching tool to help some people be motivated to do right in this life; i.e., as a metaphorical stick. That said, he rarely spoke about “the stick” and spent far more time offering “the carrot” – describing the kingdom of God/Heaven and the merits and blessings of living in godly ways that demonstrate we’re living “kingdom lives” in God’s beloved community and realm.
    “The truth of the matter is that there is not one single word in the Hebrew and Greek Manuscripts of the Bible that means hell. …hell is a man-invented, pagan, unchristian, heretical belief that was first embraced and christianised by Roman Catholicism, and incorporated into the Bible by Jerome through his Latin Vulgate in the early history of Christianity.“
    As a Jew, Jesus likely believed that human souls go to “sheol” – a nebulous, ethereal, and neutral realm that is thought to lie beneath the surface of the earth. Sheol being the place where all souls reside/rest/sleep until the judgment day where, in the Christian case, “Jesus returns to judge the quick and the dead.” But even those who go to hades, according to Revelation, don’t experience “eternal suffering” as “hell” itself becomes swallowed up and obliterated”.
    That said, I – along with many other Christians – am agnostic about the afterlife. I don’t know if there’s a heaven or a hell. I rather suspect that the only hells that exist are the ones that we create and allow at this time – and there are far too many of those.
    I don’t follow Jesus in order to go to heaven when I die — or conversely, to avoid going to hell. That’s a cheap form of faith that is really nothing more than fire insurance. I follow Jesus here and now for the sake of experiencing salvation (which means “wholeness” and “healing”) here and now – and to help others do the same.
    To the extent that I think that salvation has anything to do with what happens after we die, I believe in universal salvation. William Barclay wrote a classic essay arguing for this showing how this is biblically based. See: “Why I am a Convicted Universalist”
    For many progressive Christians, going to heaven after we die, isn’t the cake, it’s merely the icing on the marvelous cake that is life’s majestic pageant here and now. We’re called to live “kingdom lives” (lives in sync with and that reflect God’s Beloved Community) – now – trusting that whatever happens afterward will take care of itself.
    To those who say that it’s important to hold fast to Jesus’ teaching about “eternal” life. It is my understanding that the koine Greek words “perisson/perissos” that are often translated as “eternal” in English also mean “abundant/full” and so it’s as much about a state and quality of being here and now as it is about infinite perpetual time. With this in mind, I tend to emphasize our invitation to experience abundant life by following the way and teachings of Jesus.
    ~ Roger Wolsey

    Read and share online here
    About the Author
    Rev. Roger Wolsey is an ordained United Methodist pastor

    • Not to disagree but a quick search of the Bible reveals 10 mentions of the word Hades and 15 mentions of the word hell. I can quote them all if you like but I’m sure you can search yourself. I know there are other references also but I didn’t search for them. If you want I can follow up. No problem.

    • Thank you for this. I alternate between considering myself atheist and agnostic, but on my days of believing in a religion, this explanation of heaven and hell comes close to matching my own thoughts on the subject. If nothing else, it’s valuable to me as a signal that my beliefs aren’t that far from the beliefs of religious people. It’s often lonely being non religious in our culture , since so much of public life these days seems to consist of people loudly declaring their beliefs and their expectations that everyone else share those beliefs.

      I was thinking of the song lyrics, IIRC, “I know there ain’t no heaven and I pray there ain’t no hell.”

  23. Something triggered Jesus into his comment that anyone who scandalized “one of these little ones” should have a millstone tied around his neck and he should be thrown into the sea.” Equivalent to your wishes, methinks. But we need a new word for “scandal”–the Greek work derives from the ordinary trap people used to catch small animals and birds for food. So it is a matter of limiting, restraining, controlling simpler, powerless, ordinary people– preventing their “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” from growing, much less flourishing. THAT seems exactly the agenda of these ideologically drive, anti-Jesus Republican leaders.

    • So are you hoping these guys end up in hell like your pastor? Would there be anything wrong with praying for their conversion? That’s what we do in my church. We would pray for a dying Hitler to repent rather than see him go to Hell. Why is your church so vindictive?

      • Because “vindictive” is the only thing that you so-called Christians understand. It’s the only thing that gets your attention. Being nice doesn’t work with you people, and some of us have decided to stop trying.

  24. John P (and others who are struggling with this idea)–
    There is a way to express what you hope will happen to these people without having to use the word “Hell”. It goes like this, and this is my reaction for today and hope for the future: I hope that everyone who actively, eagerly participated in railroading this through the house will lose their GOVERNMENT healthcare and they will have to have the exact same healthcare as the rest of us citizens–with all that now means. Perhaps 45 will figure to save more money by cutting that particular benefit. However it happens, I want every single representative who voted for “Trumpcare”–and YES! make him own it–to have to face the healthcare reality that it is now presenting to the rest of us. Their aged parents can lose their Medicare and they will have to pay for care, medications, and nursing homes. Their college-aged children will have no coverage and will need the parents to pay for their healthcare costs–without the help of a responsible and broad plan that might have covered them. They themselves might develop prostate cancer (very common among older men) which will be deemed a “pre-existing” condition. Then they can pay for the surgery and the treatments out of their own pocket. Oh, and they can NEVER have sex again with their wives because “no maternity care” means “NO getting pregnant”, which means, of course, NO SEX. But if they want to, and she gets pregnant, she shall not be able to fly to Canada or any other modern civilized country and just “get an abortion”. She will carry the child, and deliver it just as God ordered: In Pain. And Father can pay for it all out of his paycheck. He might even have to sell off some of his stocks…or one of his cars.
    I want these people who are so damned happy to restrict rights, advantages and opportunities for others to face the same restrictions. Without reprieve. I want them to worry about dying NOW because healthcare is not taking care of them. I want them to be terrified that they will get cancer and won’t be able to afford the treatments. I want them in fear of the least little cough (might be pneumonia!) or falling off the roof after adjusting the satellite dish. I want them to have to do the math to decide if they can eat AND see a doctor this month. I want them to face the consequences of their own actions and face them as if they were the poorest, most ill member of the American society.
    THEN we let God get a hold of them!

  25. “Today I cling to the idea that somewhere beyond this life, there is a place where horrible people pay for the atrocities; where the evil humankind unleashes upon this world is returned to them in kind, and they are finally made personally accountable—where they feel the pain they have inflicted while here.”

    I am profoundly thankful for Jesus Christ and His amazing, forgiving, complete grace. That anyone who believes in Him is forgiven completely. God is truly awesome and almighty.

    Thank you John for writing a very intriguing post comparing God’s love to man’s weakness. I probably would have added something about God’s love and complete grace but I found it very interesting how you force the reader to search out God’s compassion on their own, this makes the revelation that much more personal and intimate and rings more true to my heart than just telling me God’s love is perfect! Very creative way of focusing on the grace and forgiveness of God to all.

    Sincerely
    Humility Grace Mercy

  26. Hmmm …

    I do believe I heard this once upon a time …

    “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. ~ Rep. Nancy Pelosi [2010]

    I also feel this is a lie.

    “Honestly I’m not at all proud of this admission. ”

    I honestly believe Pastor John is happy to get this off his chest and finally something has happened which has allowed him to vent these long-held thoughts with reduced worry of condemnation by his flock. Nothing he has said in the past five months would lead me to believe he isn’t proud of this admission in the least.

    He has be unrelenting in his hatred of Trump, his hatred Trump’s Administration and he his hatred all of those who elected Trump to the Presidency.

    And he has asked, in small ways – before now – for his flock to embrace that hate as well. Not even just hate, but rage to the point you want a ringside seat to another’s eternal damnation ~ that’s some real serious anger ya’ll have there.

    From a religion founded on the principles of tolerance, forgiveness, love and peace.

    From a man who is supposed to champion those virtues.

    I know all the faithful have bad days and he is one of the faithful as well. My problem is he holds himself up as more than just one of us, but as Pastor, guide and mentor. To me, him allowing his ‘bad days’ to influence his mission are just as calamitous as they would be for our doctor, car mechanic, or daycare worker with similar disregards to the fundamentals of their professions.

    And then I see so many of you posting about how you think Trump is the one leading us (the US public/Trumpsters) down the Primrose path … when Trump ISN’T and has NEVER BEEN a religious figure. No one in their right mind has ever gone to him for spiritual salvation in their moment of crisis. He ISN’T a Pastor – John Pavlovitz is.

    • James, John Pavlovitz has the spiritual maturity of a petulant child! That’s the only way I know how to express it. His profanity and vulgarity is unbecoming of a “Youth Minster”. What a shame before Almighty God!

    • Thank you for articulating what I see but don’t have your skills to express.

      If there is such a thing as a thoughtful Pavlovitz follower, this post of his aught to give them pause and not a little embarrassment.

    • James. …and pastor John is very annoyed when people tell him, ‘You need Jesus.’ Why would that annoy him? Don’t we all need Jesus?

        • Play Better, Holtby clearly demonstrates his inability to read with attention when he/she says ” John, for reasons unknown to us, HATES conservative Christianity.”

          If you could read, you could see that John P is addressing hypocrites, not all of conservative Christianity. Only the hypocrites, wherever they may be found. Only the hypocrites.

        • Now, to be fair PBH, I think John only hates what conservative Christians try to do to those they disagree with or don’t accept. If conservative Christians would take care of their own soul and leave others in peace, I think he is cool with them. Maybe you all should try it and see?

            • Well then PBH, your method of pushing people away with the judgment of the Christian Right Party is failing miserably if we look at the numbers…

              • If s called the great falling away. Look at the awful books Christian bookstores sell- Prosperity preachers, Emergents, NRA, etc

                • And your record for failure continues unabated PBH. This has not been any “great falling away.” This has been the great pushing away!

                  If there is one thing that John P’s FB page and blog (and others like him) has proven, it is that many, many people out here are hurting, seeking the face of God and the love of Jesus and all they get from the law keepers like you is the shaking finger and wagging tongue. You KNOW you do not “… give grace to those who hear.” You don’t even try. You are ignoring the afflicted and comforting those who afflict.

          • Sandi, I think Joe/Theo/Play has sailed right off into the deep end of psychosis. He shows no signs of being grounded in reality at all. And he makes less and less sense.

        • If John Pavlovitz hates conservative Christianity, it’s probably for the same reason many of us do – it’s proven time and again to be utterly hypocritical, and anything BUT Christian.

  27. This is amazing! A man who supposedly represent the heart and compassion of Jesus Christ, is hoping to send politicians and “Christians” to hell because somme politicians voted to repeal a law that is imploding and causing people to lose their health care, etc.

    Really? This is what the Christ of the Scriptures wants? Wow! is all I can say. Yet, this man have people coming on his blog to defend him and his demonic and hate-filled message? Thankfully, John Pavlovitz is a mere mortal, fallen, and brken sinner, and he has no authority to put anyone in hell. Now, as much as I hate to do it, let me put on my theological and biblical hat on in order that I might be used of the Holy Spirit to expose John’s nonsense.

    1. The Scripture is clear that there is a hell! Both the Old Testament prophets, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His holy apostles, have all taught about Hell or eternal punishment. Simply put, if there is no Hell/Eternal Punishment, then Jesus and the rest were/are liars! And the Bible is clear when it says that “God Cannot Lie!” WE see evidence and the illustration of Hell in the Bible such as the “Valley of Gehenna”, the awful abode of the “Rich man in Hell who asked to go back to his brothers to “warn them of such a horrible place”, and of course, the “Lake of Fire” that the apostle John spoke very vividly about in the book of Revelation. Yes, there is a Hell, and we have a God who cannot and will not ever lie.

    2. Seeing as how that is true, no person with the heart of Christ would want even his worst enemy to ever go there! The apostle Peter says that “It is not God’s will that any one should perish (go to hell), but that all men should come to repentance.”(2 Peter 3:9)

    3. If these politicians end up going to Hell, it won’t be because they voted on a health care law, but because they failed to embrace Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. It will be because they failed to repent of their sin, and accept God’s provision of eternal life through His Son, Jesus Christ.

    And while we’re at it, if those men go to Hell, then John Pavlovitz will be their neighbor! Why? here’s why: “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. “There is none righteous, no not one”. “All of our righteousness is like filthy rags”. “The human heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?”

    John Pavlovitz is just as wicked, crooked, uncaring, unloving, and unworthy as any other human being, so if those men and Christians that he has consigned to hell forever, then he had better prepare that he will be joining them pretty much for the very same reasons that he has spouted.

    Our God is all-knowing, all-wise, all-powerful, and present everywhere at the same time! And He knows John’s heart better than John knows it, and I know that God sees the hate, anger, bitterness, and mean-spirit nature of this little man that calls himself a “Youth Pastor”. I wouldn’t dare ever allow my children to sit under him not even to learn how to wash the dishes!

    4. How any true Christian could ever support this kind of poison in the name of “being loving” or “being like Christ”, I simply will never understand. We all know that if we turned it all around and said what John has said, about homosexuals, he would have a major stroke or coronary.

    It’s as if all this man does is listen to TV or read something on the internet, then he quickly runs and writes about it, cause he knows that he is going to get an audience from other left wing zealots like himself.

    John, where is your love and compassion for the Black community? I’ve been looking for postings that show your disdain for how Blacks were mistreated, and how the syatem still works agains them…..though the left wind Democrats claims to love them? Why aren’t you screaming and hollering about the 15 year old kid that just got his life taken away by a redneck police officer? What about the man in Charleston that was shot several times iin the back while he was running away?

    You guys give trmendous lip service, and if I didn’t know better or have the discernment that I do, I would fall for your pretense and hypocrisy, but thanks be to God I know better!

    My prayer and hope is that John will humble himself someday and come back to this blog and repent and ask everyone, but especially those that he has consigned to hell, to forgive him in Jesus holy name!

    • Anonymous : You say that pastor John is a ‘broken sinner’… but I don’t think he sees himself that way –therein lies the problem.

    • Funny – reading your comment, I find myself thinking, “Who would Jesus throw under the bus?”. Oh, wait – that’s right, Jesus disapproved of throwing people under the bus. He preached tolerance and mercy and pesky things like that. At least, he did in the Bible I grew up learning from…..

  28. I get so confused on this blog. It seems to be like a christian hater blog, which I am okay with, then it seems to be written by people who say they are christians! Geesh!!! Earlier J ays no hell now there is a hell??

  29. Thank you for saying what were thinking. you are not alone . Mary and Jim Couling ,followers of Christ.

  30. Why are some of you bashing JP? These are words coming from anger and hurt; written by a person who still gets to retain his humanity… like everyone else.

    Who is being judgmental and critical?

    My question is why is Healthcare unaffordable, with or without insurance? With my education and work history, I never earned $30 an hour. In my dreams perhaps. How many times over does one have to pay for medical equipment with their inflated copay, isn’t there some end to the cost of MRI equipment? And yes, I understand maintenance costs, tech pay, radiologists pay… But give me a break. If I have to pay $20 for 2 Tylenol in the hospital, I’ll bring my own… Oh, but that’s not allowed. And don’t get me started on insurance companies… As they say in my neck o’ the woods, “we’re insurance poor”.

    Why are you ugly people attacking someone anyway? Let’s hear you, as you wail on your bed, that you’ll have to make personal allowances when you get that notice from your insurance company that your premiums have increased x2. Or your doctor is “just not going to deal with insurance any longer” or “sorry, we’re not accepting Medicare patients any longer” or “we’re moving to a $1500 service payment, upfront… how do you intend to take care of that?”.

    Some fundies here need to have that brick removed from their chest… Good luck meeting that copay, hope you’ve already met your out-of-pocket for the year.

    • Maybe your job is only worth $30 per hour. An education is no guarantee that the market will respond accordingly.

      At any rate, the “bashing” is because no Christian, let alone a PASTOR, should be delighting in the idea of ANYONE going to Hell. They idea is to help others avoid Hell. He should be encouraging his flock to pray for spiritual guidance and the conversion of our leaders and not for their damnation. That’s crazy. But this is the logical conclusion to his Trump hate.

      • I did the job of 3 people, doing one of those public protection, bleeding heart jobs. Bad move on my part but I can sleep at night.

        I got up, went to church this morning, as a Christian sometimes does, was moved in Spirit ad I sat there and prayed (National Day of Prayer) for the healing of this country. I even prayed DJT, how ’bout that? .As I sat there… Behold, I still had a pulse and still afflicted with those things messy things humans feel and do. Pretty sure you’re breathing. JP is breathing. We’re still called to provide grace and compassion, ms. or mister.

    • I agree with all you are saying. I wonder what all those people who voted for DT and are on Obamacare will think when they can’t afford or don’t qualify for Trumpcare. Just saying,

      • Anyone know if even one insurer will honor it…. Oh that’s right, they wont5have to pay a claim… It was pre-existing. If you were living five minutes ago, you’re pre-existing. I want to see the insurance companies CEO’s tax returns next year.

        • Well, I do know that they have added abuse as a preexisting condition. So one can reason that the ins co aren’t going to pay out anything. Meantime their CEO’s make millions of dollars. What I want is that congress gets insurance just like the rest of us and when they no longer work for us they have to buy their own. I suspect they would look at this all differently then. Peace and Love,

  31. John P should quit calling himself a pastor and just get on with the business of being an activist/blogger and author. I loved when he wrote about “hell” and how he didn’t believe in it but now he is hoping people go there……..I’m confused. I have lost respect for him and withdrew my support (both financially and my word of mouth), it’s sad.

    • So many Trump supporters who comment here seem to be surprised that John Pavlovitz has an opinion about what constitutes living a moral life. Like your orange-tinted leader, are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of “sermon?”

      • It’s not that. Pavlovitz is so unhinged over Trump he’s now hoping for Hell for him and other leaders. That’s not normal. Not for a Christian. ESPECIALLY not for a pastor.

        • No. He is hoping for Hell for the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical leaders, the idiots who follow them, and the Republican politicians they support who are kicking 26,000,000 poor Americans off their health insurance policies—many of whom will die without those policies. If that is not deserving of Hell, I would be hard pressed to find many others things that deserve it that much.

          But, of course, I know a sorry sack of manure like you does not care about anyone other than yourself anyway—so I do not know why I am wasting my typing fingers on you.

          • Funny how you say nothing about the innocent people that are murdered every 97 seconds by planned parenthood via dismemberment. Or are they not deserving of Hell because they’re a liberal organization.

            I’m sure the dead children agree your “passionate about being compassionate.”

            You are the ultimate hypocrite here. Probably more so than JP.

        • Are you a pastor? They are real people who get angry when the least of God’s children are being thrown away like yesterdays garbage. I know another Pastor who when he read this said Amen, keep the faith, brother, because someone has to and clearly those in charge aren’t. I could be snarky like you and ask how would you know what was normal for a Christian, but I won’t. You talk about judging as you judge. Perhaps you need to look to yourself. I’ll make a deal, you worry about your soul, and I will worry about mine.

          • Do you hope Trump and Ryan go to Hell too? I don’t think it’s “judgmental” at all to expect a pastor to not only not say something so outrageous, but if he truly believes these peoples’ souls are in danger of damnation, to encourage his followers to pray for their conversion. Isn’t that “normal”? I’ve NEVER heard of a pastor who wants people to go to Hell, but I admit there are some loony Protestant ministers out there on the fringe who might have such twisted desires, and JP is among them.

          • Least of God’s children thrown away like garbage, you say. Sounds like aborted children. Maybe you could speak up for them if you’re not to busy blindly following John’s false teachings.

  32. Dear John P. , I loved this. Thank you for calling a spade a spade and not sugarcoating anything. I daresay a record number of trolls will attack instead of realizing they need to repent.

    • So who are you hoping will go to Hell? Are you praying for a front row seat for when the Devil jabs Paul Ryan in the backside and sends him into the inferno? Is that one of the joys of Heaven that you’re looking forward to?

      Your “pastor” is a disgrace. Men and women of God pray for the conversion of souls and not for their damnation.

  33. As one wise person once said, our world is the insane asylum of the Universe. This plane of existence, which is not our true home, is the domain of those who are dark entities (psychopaths, narcissists, and those who follow whomever they think are the “winners”). They own it. Those who are of the light come here to experience rubbing up against this evil and to shine a light on it. It is our striving against it that helps us grow and magnifies the goodness and love of the Creator. It’s always a shock to encounter such ugliness. The thing is, their idea of survival of the fittest does not ensure the survival of the human species. Bruce Lipton in his book, The Biology of Belief, makes it very clear that our survival depends on cooperation—even trees nurture each other and will feed fellow sick and dead trees (The Hidden Life of Trees). Let us remember that the Creator is always with us and sustains us. The meat of Christianity is based on the two great commandments: Love God with all that you are and love your neighbor as yourself. All other Christian dogmas are gravy and side dishes that should reflect those two commandments. Unfortunately, most dogmas exist to instill fear in followers and control them.

  34. Thank you for expressing my outrage at what happened today and what has been happening for the last 100 days. I also agree that I will be praying and working on this anger but for today I am not apologizing to anyone for how I feel and I don’t think you need to either. Let them look in their own hearts and stay out of mine and yours. I am suspect of those who will yell the loudest and longest. Kind of like if I outshout John or I outwrite John than he is wrong and I am the only one who is right. I think perhaps it is a guilty conscience. Peace and Love,

    • If you’re delighting in the idea of anyone going to Hell, you definitely SHOULD have a guilty conscience, especially as “the wife of a former pastor” who should know better…

      • You need to spend more time on your soul and leave mine to me, and I am not the wife of a former pastor, he is still one. You don’t lose your title because you retire. Get a clue. I assume by your post that you are above any of this and so wonderful that you never get angry and have to pray about it. That is how you come across. So butt out of my soul, I will worry about it, you need and I mean need to worry more about your own. You come across as very self righteous and I seem to remember a lot of stuff about self righteousness in that book you keep hitting everyone who thinks differently than you over the head with. They didn’t take kindly to it then . So get over yourself.

        • Yes I’ve gotten angry and had to apologize for it. I’ve done lots of wrong things and have committed my share of sins. But this blog post was premeditated. It’s not a flash of anger. He’s been saying this in various way that were not so obvious for months, and now has made his hatred crystal clear.

          I don’t mean to come across as “self-righteous.” I’m certainly not so self-righteous that I would feel qualified to wish someone goes to Hell. That’s God’s decision, not mine, and not that of the loving Pastor.

          Your soul is your business of course, but this is an open forum and you don’t mind telling people off, and I don’t think it’s out of line to call you out for being a bad example by supporting JP’s disgraceful post. Why would your pastor husband think it’s so great? He also wants to see people suffering in Hell? That’s just bizarre, but maybe I need to get out more. The pastors I have known would all say to pray for government leaders and would admonish us for wishing Hell on them or anyone else.

          A pastor’s job is to lead souls to Heaven and not to condemn them. He is leading his followers to hate and judge. That’s crappy pastoring.

          Why do you insist your husband be called a “pastor” if he doesn’t even believe in going to church? Why would he want to be so identified with a job that he apparently hated?

        • Kathleen, I hope you realize that “Ima Trumpfan” is that most pernisicious of all the trolls, Joe/Theo

          • Gloriamarie,
            I know who it is. He can say what he will about me, but when he starts criticizing one of the most loving man, who has followed Christ’s commandments with love and dignity, he just goes too far. I don’t criticize his wife for being married to him or whatever. He has no boundaries and sometimes he needs to be reminded. Instead of stating how he sees things he has to throw stones. That is mean, malicious behavior. Peace and Love,

            • Kathleen, from your comments I can tell that you (and by extension, your husband) are a good, decent person with an abundance of compassion. You’re certainly a better person than I am. Some of the commenters here get my Irish up, and it makes me forget my upbringing. Hopefully, God will at least give me an “E” for effort…. 🙂

              • My bet is that you get a higher grade than that and I don’t bet on anything but a sure thing. I suspect that God’s Irish gets up too. Thanks for your kind words, Peace and Love,

  35. John, you said, “If there is a hell, Donald Trump and Paul Ryan and Mike Pence, and all those who conspired to perpetrate this horror upon our most vulnerable and most at-risk, might actually come to the humility and repentance and decency that they seem incapable of here.”

    That sort of “Hell” is called PURGATORY, John, and while I wouldn’t wish anyone to go to real, eternal Hell, the idea that some souls who actually believe in Jesus Christ might need remedial treatment after death so that the Holy Ghost can transform them and teach them to ACT like Him is not a new one.

    • Cynthia, there is no such thing as PURGATORY! That is pure unbiblical nonsense from the Catholic church. Of course, they have many more heretical teachings, so this doesn’t surprise me.

  36. C’mon people. Spare me the outrage. John is pissed off and hurting like many of us. He has the guts to put his questions and struggles out there for the world to see. The title “pastor” doesn’t give him special dispensation from being human. I admire his transparency. Who can honestly say that you can get through one single day without wishing some fellow human a nice, slow roast in a really hot place? Yeah, you think it and you atone and you might think it again tomorrow. And if that thought doesn’t cross your mind, well I guess you’re just a lot more perfect than I am. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why people who find JP so offensive waste their time here. You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind and we don’t need to be saved from him. Take all that indignation and go do something positive with it.

    • Good idea, but meanwhile we can remind him and others that hoping someone goes to hell is NOT Christian, and NOT the work of a pastor. He really should behave better than that. There’s no excuse for it. So maybe it’s just a “bad day”? Then an apology and retraction will be coming, but I will not hold my breath…

      • Those are wasted words coming from a slithering snake of a troll like you. Too bad I do not have the words your daddy used to describe you. I bet they were premium and right on the money.

      • Oh but Ima do, please? for as long as you can…go for the Guinness Record.

        You think you are a good Christian? Well your support of Trump proves otherwise and your angry, self-righteous idiocy as a man of faith wrestles with demons on the page in front of you does too. You people prove you do not know God every day that you post here. May God have mercy!

        • You prove you do not know God by praying people go to Hell. You make broad and ridiculous judgements about people based on a few posts. Your hate toward anything not liberal is evident.

          • Wrong again Anonymous, the God of the Bible is not shy about people who will go to hell why should I be? God SAID “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

            I have not made nearly the “broad and ridiculous judgements about people” that you and your ilk have. Your hate toward anything not conservative is evident.

            • Thank you for that. By the way, John did not say he was proudly consigning people to hell, like some commentators have, he said he was wrestling with the anger and the feelings that he has about throwing people under the bus. None of us are proud of that, but once again the right can’t see anything that they have done wrong, or that throwing all these people under the bus for filthy lucre is unchristian. John is honest, but I suspect that they wouldn’t recognize honesty if they ran into it, as evidenced they believe the liar in chief, even when shown video that refutes what he says. Peace and Love

              • Kathleen, I’m curious about how much are you, Sandi, and Gloria getting paid for being John’s personal apologist?

                • About the same as you are paid by the Christian Right Party to justify their usurping of God’s people.

                • Nada, but I could turn the tables and ask how much is DT paying you and it better be a lot to be his apologist.

            • Like a good, uninformed liberal you don’t understand that verse. John the Baptist never said he wanted them to go to hell.

              If you’re going to proof text you’ll need to do better.

              • Well this “good, uninformed liberal” knows that in Matthew 12 it was Jesus who said “You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of” to the Pharisees. And in Matthew 23 it was Jesus who said “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?” to the Pharisees. John the Baptist said, “to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?” Luke 3

                If you’re going to diss text you’ll need to do better. whiny.

                • You still don’t understand it and are misinterpreting to justify your hate. No wonder liberal churches are shrinking.

                  • Poor PBH, even if it was true that my understanding is the problem, you would not be able to help explain it. Which is often true of you law keeper folk.

                    And you decrying someone else’s hate is just plain laughable.

                  • PBH, the reason what you consider to be liberal (or as I like to call them, denominational) churches are shrinking is that they’ve decided to try to be imitation Bible-thumping no-denomination churches, and it’s not what a lot of us want from a church. That’s all it is, at least in my view.

  37. Thank you John.
    I had read several of your articles before and when trying to find a way to comment, I found out you were a pastor. Also not a churchgoer but I would go to yours. The first article I read of yours was “No, You’re Not Losing Your Mind.” It was definitely a timely article for me and it was my sanity check. Much of what you have said has given me comfort and I really just want to say thank you.

    • It gives you comfort that he hopes people go to Hell?

      WOW.

      His loyal sheep can’t see that he’s leading them off a cliff. They’re too much into enjoying the pastor’s “permission” to be hateful and judgmental.

      A new low for the “pastor.”

    • Suz Anne. Ignore “Anonymous.” He is a famous troll and troublemaker on this blog—a person who feeds on and thrives on religious conflict and the raw emotions it generates. And yes, just like any good vacuum cleaner, he…

  38. As a former fundamentalist Christian and apologist for over 20 years, I am sorry for vengeful Christianity that sadly, no hell exists, and this is provable through scripture.

    But feel free to follow islam or Zoroastrianism – because the idea of hell that fundamentalist Christianity preaches is completely Zoroastrianism. You’ve made the ha-satan into an evil all powerful god and created a fire pit for bad guys that Jews never believed in after they went over to monotheism. (Or before for that matter)

  39. So many evil people in positions of “leadership” in our country. Such a tragedy, especially since so many of their supporters get their news from such biased “sources” that they don’t know the truth. Or, they refuse to believe it.

  40. I am an atheist , but that was my first thought when hearing about he AHCA. I hope there truly is a Hell. I too am crying for all those who will suffer if this becomes law. My mind simply cannot comprehend the pure hate, the ugliness, the immorality………It is just beyond words.

    • You are concerned about the suffering of a few in a life that is fleeting yet wish horrible and eternal suffering on others.

      Do you see the irony?

  41. This is disturbing and heartbreaking all at once! The pure hatred that I’ve read in this blog over the last few months only perpetuates many of the problems our country and world faces. And spiritually speaking, it reflects a total lack of the grasping of what differentiates mankind from Jesus…we are all flawed and deserve Hell, and but for His righteousness, would receive what we deserve. It is risky indeed to think you somehow don’t deserve the Hell you you are wishing others to experience.

    • How many times did you vote for Trump Ms. Kristy? Tell me how Jesus and Trump have so much in common? Is he going to save your daddy’s business? How many people is daddy planning to lay off? Did daddy teach you to hate all those people who work for him—just as much as he hates them?

      • I did not vote for Mr. Trump! I am not going to respond to the childishness of your other comments, other than to say…my comments were spiritual in intent, not political.

        • If this blog were monitored by its author, I’d have to believe it would turn off many respondents. The discourse is often so foul and poisonous I would think there would be concern shown by a minster when most of his defenders are atheists (nothing at all against them, but might show John he’s not quite fulfilling his calling) or Christians using acronyms for f-word. Your comments were constructive and honest.

          • SueA, I have actually put these points directly to John P and his response is that while he can delete particularly egregious posts when brought to his attention, he cannot block users because the only way to do that is to block IP addresses and as every place that has wifi has it’s own IP address, he can’t do that because he doesn’t know the origin of IP addresses as they are in coffee shops, MacDonads, public libraries.

            His recommendation to me is to cease to read those whose posts bother me. Unfortunately the most pernicious of the trolls here keeps assuming a different pseudonym in order to catch people on his hook of venom and vile.

            • Ok,Thanks. Does it bother him that so many atheists love everything he says without change in faith. Is he adding to the fold as a minister would hope? I see just as much confusion and anger coming from him so I wonder if he is in a good place to minister to others. A sweet reader, who seems to support him, thought this last post was a bit to revealing of loss of clarity and suggested he take a break. Maybe you have access? He needs prayer.

              • If you don’t understand what John is about perhaps you need prayer. And now we are going to add atheists to our list of people to be hateful to. Just asking

                • Oops, forgot name on last comment. Kathleen, I didn’t say a single derogatory word about atheists. You are seeing something that is not there. I was asking a question that often crosses my mind when reading John’s blog. As a minister of our generous gospel of Christ I wonder what he thinks when he reads the venom stirred up by his posts. This last blog spells out his thoughts quite clearly which seems to have caught some supporters off guard due to its ill will.

            • I presume the posts you’re referring to are those by your foul mouthed abusive friend Charles. Please let John know he needs to do more deleting work.

  42. For those who are interested, I have a new main post up on my blog about the events of the day in the Republican Congress—and be sure to read the rare article attached to it too. You may do so at the following safe link:

    https://faith17983.wordpress.com/

    Be sure and send a copy of it to all your friends here in the United States and around the world. I am not ashamed of Jesus, and I am not ashamed of my blog.

  43. Post #1

    I going to have two posts, because I want to make two separate points.

    Is the U.S. still a Christian nation?

    The new health legislation will likely (we will find out next week with the Congressional Budget Office report) decrease the number of people with health insurance by over 20 million. It will also cut Medicaire. We are cutting care to children and the poor.

    At the same time, we are not allowing any refugees in from war-torn areas such as Syria. We are closing the door to those who desperately need our compassion.

    It’s not what you say that defines you, it’s what you do.

    • Friendly Guy,

      The USA was never a “Christian” nation because the First Amendment established separation of church and state.

      Yes, certain groups came here in the 16th and 17th centuries to establish theocracies, but those soon failed. The Founding Fathers were pretty much a bunch of Deists, at best, and not Trinitarian Christians.

      • Gloria, this is not true! Most of the Founding Fathers were Bible College and Seminary professors, not Deists as you false claim. Your talking points are simply that. Without a doubt, America was founded upon a Judeo-Christian foundation.

        • Anonymous, your knowledge of history is about as accurate and far-reaching as Trumpty Dumpty’s. Which is to say, pitiful. Most of the Founding Fathers had little to no connection with bible colleges and seminaries. There were wealthy farmers, university-educated businessmen and lawyers among them, and because of those backgrounds, many, if not most of them, were able to see the need for separation of church and state, and indeed insisted on it in writing the Constitution.

        • James, mayhap you should study up on intent. You know what else is “not in the Constitution?” God. In fact many things we take for granted are not in there specifically, only by intent. Like:
          The Air Force
          Congressional Districts
          The Electoral College
          Executive Order
          Executive Privilege
          Freedom of Expression
          (Absolute) Freedom of Speech and Press
          Immigration
          Impeachment means removal from office
          Innocent until proven guilty
          It’s a free country
          Judicial Review
          Jury of Peers
          “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”
          Marriage
          Martial Law
          No taxation without representation
          Number of Justices in the Supreme Court
          “Of the people, by the people, for the people”
          Paper Money
          Political Parties
          Primary Elections
          Qualifications for Judges

          What so many refuse to see is that there is no freedom OF if there is not also freedom FROM.

          • Thank you, Sandi. I wonder how long it will take to get that through people’s heads. Somehow they think freedom of religion means that they can force their brand on others. It means the the government is separate from religion. We all follow the laws of government, we can follow the laws of any religion or not. It also means people have the right to not believe in God. I have been fighting this since I was in middle school, that was a long, long time ago, you would think that people would finally get it. They don’t have the right to force their religion on anyone. This country has some ugly history concerning this and people need to wake up. Period. Peace and Love,

        • Those exact words don’t have to be there. Only someone small-minded enough to be a literalist would expect to see them because that is a person who reads without comprehension.

          Separation of church and state is clearly understood in the First Amendment and has been clearly understood to establish it since it was written.

          To refresh your memory “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

  44. Post #2

    What is the motivation for the new health care legislation?

    Full disclosure – I’m from the opposite end of the political spectrum, I guess.

    But I just don’t understand this. The cynic would view this as a way of cutting a social benefit to allow tax cuts for the wealthy.

    I guess one could argue that the government should not be involved in providing health insurance for its people. Or, as some have said, that health care is not a right.

    But you could make that argument about anything. Is education a right? Is clean water a right? Are free roads a right?

    Ulitmately, we, as a society, have to decide where we draw the line. My view is that a civilized society takes care of its poor and sick.

    • Friendly Guy wrote “Ulitmately, we, as a society, have to decide where we draw the line. My view is that a civilized society takes care of its poor and sick.”

      Exactly. Not to mention that Jesus also commands us to do this.

      • That’s the role of the Church not the government.

        Considering our national debt how can this country sustain high expenses such as national health care?

        If you or I managed our finances the way the US government does we would be out in the street.

        • And again PBH, if you support the Biblical teaching, you support the ways that gets done, including the government, which I suppose is a newsflash for you, but that is still us. We ELECT our government. We FUND our government. It is US therefore giving to those in need not some foreign entity you call government. When a firefighter runs into a burning building, he is doing that for us, not himself. Does that help draw the picture?

          The role of a leader is to do what they can to take care of their people. Bad leaders don’t even try.

          Remember the “widow’s mite?” This is not about how much money we owe (most of which we owe ourselves). But since you are worried about our national debt, how can you support paying for a wall? And Trump already is running a deficit… how can this country sustain high expenses such as the expense of the Trump family?

            • Wow PBH, you are on a streak! Governments that make life better for their people are not “nanny states” but they are good IMO.

              And let me be blunt, we are not friends and I have no interest in offering you anything about my relationship with God or how that manifests, but it is all right there in the Bible.

        • Joe/Theo

          Thank you for once again proving that you don’t really care if babies live once you’ve saved them from abortion.

          “According to the Kaiser Family Association, at least half of the babies born in the 50 states we call the United States of America are covered by our country’s Medicaid program. Twenty-four states have at least 50 percent or higher Medicaid covered births.”

          “New Mexico led all states with 72 percent of the babies born there in 2015 having their births covered by Medicaid.

          Arkansas ranked second with 67 percent; Louisiana ranked third with 65 percent; and three states—Mississippi, Nevada and Wisconsin—tied for fourth place with 64 percent of babies born there covered by Medicaid.
          As anyone who has read even the most superficial coverage of what is in the Republican healthcare “package” knows, this healthcare bill guts Medicaid by $880 billion in order to get that money into the pockets of the wealthy top percent. That money comes out of Medicaid. ”

          http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/5/4/1658883/-The-insurance-of-half-of-all-babies-born-in-the-U-S-is-threatened-by-Trumpcare?detail=emaildkre&link_id=15&can_id=aac248234d067d672dba041bb62601e0&source=email-ny-daily-news-cover-says-it-all-2&email_referrer=ny-daily-news-cover-says-it-all-2&email_subject=ny-daily-news-cover-says-it-all

          • I would also add that there are probably children who were born because the mother had insurance. Take it away and some people will abort because they simply can’t afford to have that baby. Think ahead people.

        • PBH, by the government managing its finances, do you mean “shoveling buckets of money at the superrich who don’t need a single cent of it”? Then we agree on this – considering our national debt, how can this country sustain high expenses such as tax breaks for people who don’t need the tax break?

  45. My name is Taylor Baker.

    I am a young man in his mid-twenties (who does not feel like it at all) who questions his sexuality, is autistic, and is formerly methodist now atheist. Ever since I can remember, I have been maliciously tormented by society for expressing myself differently from the norm. No matter where I go and who I explain my problems to, people always tell me to just shut up and deal with it, normally after calling me a slur.

    Even after everything that has happened to my kind, autistics and LGBTQA+’s, I’m told that I have a “persecution complex.”

    I’m going to cut to the chase and say something that no other person would dare say.

    I am proud to hate the nation that I was born in. I hate everything about this piss-ant nation, sorry for the language. I hate the flag, I hate its laws, I hate its ideals, everything. I only care about myself, at the end of the day. After Orlando and Trump’s rise to power, I decided to formally renounce my citizenship, and I have no plans on looking back.

    I have been everywhere, to every space that I thought would be safe for me to vent my frustrations. I am no longer welcome welcome in any of those places because I took it to the extreme. Nobody would help me get this demon I have locked up inside me under control.

    For me, total misanthropy is justice. Disdain for my “fellow man” has brought me more comfort than people chastise.

    I fear for the worst.

    I will going to college soon through this special program. I fear that people who align with Trump will come just to speak ill of my humanity. I fear that if the worst really does come, I may just either kill myself or someone else.

    I don’t know what the hell to do anymore.

    • Taylor, the first thing you need to do is seek professional help, not because there is anything wrong with you but because no one should deal with so much anger and contempt on their own.

      I do not want this to end badly for you or anyone around you. There are things, there are times, when we just simply cannot handle it all on our own, it seems you are at one of those times and I pray you will take my advice and get yourself to a balance you can live with.

      Work for your passion and give yourself outlets but most of all, know that there are people who care, who still want to help, include, respect and value those who are not “the norm”. Celebrate your unique self and ignore those who do not get it.

      I hope you find peace!

    • {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Taylor Baker}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

      It breaks my heart to read what has been done and said to you and how you have suffered. That was fundamentally wrong.

      I am quite a bit older than you and have suffered somethings in the past made worse by people’s response to the events and to my attempts at handling things. I have come to the conclusion that there is one very basic fundamental issue that motivates those that lack the self-awareness to realize they participate in this dynamic.

      People are fundamentally terrified of anything that is different from themselves. If one is not a part of their recognized tribe, watch out.

      I first learned this when I was a child and parents of my school friends would not allow their children to come to my house to play. One reason was that we lived too close to the “colored neighborhood,” as it was called back in the day. Another reason was my last name which is Italian. We lived in a hub for white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants (WASPS) and we weren’t part of their tribe.

      What I thought was very odd is that most of those of us who were Italian and discriminated against in our turn discriminated against the negroes of our town. I did not understand even at age six how my parents could do to others what they complained about being done to them.

      And so, I realized that I never want to treat other people as I had been treated. I realized that the only way to cut through the fear dynamic was to accept that all people are created exactly as it delighted God to do so.

      Now, please understand, I would never say it delighted God to create you with autism. That is not God’s will for you. It was not God’s will for me to be sexually molested as a child or raped as an adult. But God has used these things in my life to make me who I am today.

      I hear your pain, I hear your outrage. I hear your suffering. I don’t want you to experience any of that.

      But sadly, there are many people on this blog who are trapped within their fear of anything different than themselves and they are very controlled by it. Watch out for the trolls, please.

    • Taylor Baker,

      I’m sorry for your terrible pain. As I read your post my heart aches for you. I see much of my son in your words and style of writing. I will admit my beliefs aren’t the same as yours but if you ever need to talk or just have someone listen, you can go to my sight justanothersinner.org and use contact sight to send me a private message. I might not always agree with what you say but I will always listen with and understanding ear. Your life matters. I’m guessing human contact make you uncomfortable, so a hug would be a bad thing, instead I offer a ear to listen, judgement free. When my son needs my love and support the most, I drive with him and let him vent, it makes him more comfortable knowing he doesn’t need to make eye contact or touch. I let him vent and he knows I am listening and I truly care. I want to do that for you, Taylor Baker, listen and for you to know I care. I am willing to listen, you can message me through justanothersinner.org

      With great love,
      Humility Grace Mercy

    • Taylor Baker, I have taken my time to respond because this is something near and dear. I have a grandson with Asperger so can relate a little. I know that life can be difficult for anyone who is different. For some reason this country doesn’t celebrate individuality. I know that the things that make my grandson unique are the things that will make life more difficult for him. He is this lovely human being, as I am sure you are, that if people took the time would learn that. People don’t want to take the time, they want to judge. I know there are helps out there and I would urge you to go to someone, you deserve that. I would also caution you about the people who comment on this blog, some will castigate you for who you are, please know that they are the minority. Don’t let other people make your life choices, know that there are people out there who will understand. I know you said you have walked away from Christianity and I respect that but know that I will be praying for you, hoping that college will give you a new lease and that your life will turn the corner from despair to hope. Peace and Love,

  46. You christians crack me up! You say nadty stuff then go hide in Jesus – come back out and insult each other and then go hide behind Jesus! Geesh! If there were a Jesus he would think your looney. Then you have the self appointed keeper of hell (which doesnt exist) sending ppeole there!

  47. You christians crack me up! You say nadty stuff then go hide in Jesus – come back out and insult each other and then go hide behind Jesus! Geesh! If there were a Jesus he would think your looney. Then you have the self appointed keeper of hell (which doesnt exist) sending ppeole there!

  48. The entire premise of this article and the discussion that follows is deeply troubling on many levels. Everyone seems to be defining their Christianity based on their compassion and caring for the needy and their support of the government programs that address those needs.

    A Christian is one who has been saved by the blood of our Savior. A Christian is someone who is being saved by grace. Grace is a free gift from God that is NOT based on our performance or on our works. None of us is worthy, it is all based on Christ and what He did for us. The thief on the cross did nothing for the needy, yet Jesus promised him eternal life simply for his belief.

    Yet everyone here is defining each other as Christians and non-Christians according to their own narrow definition of “compassion for the needy”. Where does the bible say that we must support taxpayer funded programs for the needy that are administered by some distant, godless government? Is that what Jesus commands? Or would He prefer that we carry out our compassion and help on an individual level? And should such charity be carried out through a sense of duty and obligation or from an attitude of gratitude for what our Savior has done for us?

    Any self-proclaimed “Christian” who would wish Hell upon his opponents in the political arena has little or no understanding of what the bible says about Hell. Anyone who would wish that upon another ought to reexamine their own belief and their own professed “compassion”. All of the finger pointing and name calling I have seen here isn’t going to get a single one of you to Heaven. Nor is the caring for the sick and needy going to get you any closer.

    For all the spouting off about Christian beliefs, I have seen very little evidence of it here in this discussion or in the article that prompted it.

    • Progressive Christianity, which is promoted by John Pavlovitz, is not Christianity at all. It promotes a false gospel and as you’ve noticed exalts government as “god”.

      • The teachings and life of Jesus are not false gospel. The Christian Right Party is a false gospel to the core.

        If you do not want to pray that human vipers go to hell, then don’t. I did not say anyone should pray any way other than how God leads them to pray. The Bible plainly says all will not “come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.” That is simply a given I recognize.

          • One minute you have such great Biblical knowledge you diss my Jesus quotes, the next you ask questions you know the answer to. Are you unstable or just a baiting bully? Nevermind, I know.

            Go ask God about getting to Heaven, seems you might need a refresher.

            • You just made my point. I guess you don’t believe in the need to repent and place faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Or are you like John, Charles, JP and others here that believe there is no Hell or that people go to heaven by “being good?”

    • Brian, you miss the bigger point. If indeed you support something, you support it in all manifestations of help that achieve it.

      If your Christian compassion, empathy and “works” leads you to want to feed the hungry, take care of the orphan, widowed, disabled and poor, shelter the homeless, etc. then by extension seeing the need leads you to know that private charity amongst those who choose to help is not sufficient.

      There is not a church on every corner prepared to meet the need that is there. We do not need the Bible to tell us that such help requires infrastructure, systems, funding, regulations, oversight, management and availability that the church (which is not one body) simply cannot accomplish.

      Jesus could feed 5000 with some bread and a few fishes, it does not work that way for mere mortals.

      Taxpayer funded programs is the only way we can keep the millions in need afloat. And while the bureaucracy may lead from podunk to DC our government is the most efficient, fair, non-judgmental system to achieve the most good.

      What Jesus commanded was for us to see that it gets done. He did not give us the strategic plan. So we use what works. When a natural disaster happens do they only rely on local resources? When a community needs a library, do only the patrons pay for it?
      We still have to “carry out our compassion and help on an individual level” because the need is that great, but denying that government and taxpayer dollars are needed is ludicrous. Paying taxes is also “carried out through a sense of duty and obligation” (law) an “an attitude of gratitude” for what we can do together.

      Let me fix the sentence for you, any self-proclaimed Christian who would wish Hell upon those he / she opposes in the political arena, is clearly suffering and wrestling with demons we should all maybe look at and evaluate for harm. That is the body of Christ, to look out for harm and join in a solution.

      If caring for the sick and needy does not bring a person closer to Jesus, a few words said on your knees won’t either.

      I doubt you meant your indictment to encompass all here, but it does, “For all the spouting off about Christian beliefs, I have seen very little evidence of it here in this discussion or in the article” because few seem to know Jesus as they should or admit they are not living in his teachings as they should.

    • So being saved by the grace of Jesus and praying is enough? We do not need to do what Jesus said to do for people and instead just pray to Jesus for them? Prayers will feed the poor, tend to the sick, and comfort the grieving and mistreated people? What did James say about faith without sacrifice and works?

      • Robin, I like the way you think. I wish I could believe the way some do, that just saying the words and praying and Voila! I am saved. Don’t have to do anything else. I have always thought that’s easy and then I remember all the things I was taught and read, then I have to shake my head and say, nope, there is more than that and I had best be taking care of the least if I truly believe. Must be nice to think you don’t have to do the work, just say the words. Peace and Love,

      • Robin,

        What “sacrifice and works” can you add to the sacrifice and work Christ completed on the cross? Jesus said “It is finished” John 19:30 He also tells us “My grace is sufficient for thee” 2Corinthians 12:9 We are further told: “There is no one righteous, not even one.” Romans 3:10

        If you wish to cite James teaching, please be aware there is controversy whether this epistle even belongs in the New Testament. I would instead refer you to the many, many teachings of the Apostle Paul in his numerous epistles. And how often he chastised early Christians who were saved by faith in Christ and so easily then led astray by relying on works and sacrifices instead of the grace of God given us through Christ. We are saved by grace through the shed blood of Christ. There is nothing we can do to earn our salvation. There is nothing we need to do to earn salvation. It is grace plus nothing.

        • We are saved by grace and given salvation if we ask for it, but what good is being saved if one ignores the needs of his own community? Does the phrase “Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” not ring true today? If you go to the hungry, the sick, the abused, the outcast and say “May peace be with you” and walk on by then what good is that? Works are to flow from the saved, right?

    • Brian.

      — thank you for your comments. You make a lot of sense. [We go around in circles here, mostly because of the way the comments are set up. They’re hard to follow.] That said, I see pastor John’s message as being hyper-focused on behaviour. Like you said, he defines Christianity as merit based, on how much you ‘care’ and how much you ‘do’. Whereas, I understand the Gospel Message very differently than he does. I know God likes our good deeds, but I know they are pitiful. Plus, I have a large sense of humor about my own ‘good deeds’. Paltry! [Pastor John seems so serious. He seems to live in a state of near-panic, which is contagious to the brethren, and harmful.] Too much Stephen Colbert.

  49. The bigger problem is that Jon and the other Christian left are loving people straight into hell with no talk of sin or repentance.

    • “Loving people straight to hell”?!? “No talk of sin and repentance”?!? It depends what you consider a sin. If you think an authoritarian G-d has imposed arbitrary rules that we must slavishly follow, as the Pharisees were enforcing on the Jews, without the spirit of the rules, then what is the point of repentance for your “sins” to the powers that be.

      If you believe sin is doing what we selfishly want instead of what Jesus did and said then the “Leftist Christians” do talk about sin and repentance, but not in a way any Pharisee will understand. Discernment with judgment. Loving those who are different, but being true to yourself. Avoiding the loud, angry, and abusive because they are a vexation to the spirit, but being with the ones who are quite, abused, and sad because they need your mercy and compassion.

  50. John : Vengeance is Mine Says God Almighty.
    All Are Unrighteous ,
    There is no Good in mankind.
    NO not one who seeks after God with out his prompting.
    All That is Evil in this world is From SATAN and All who Don’t Accept Jesus Christ As their Way of escape will suffer this Judgement , NOT by him.
    Because he offers freely Salvation to all.
    NOT whom I or you see fit , or what I or You think is right or wrong.
    Jesus Christ is JUST , NOT FAIR , YOU see with your eyes and what you believe. God Sees the heart and the beginning to the end.
    All Those who Believe, Trust, Commit their heart to Jesus Christ will be saved from Hell and Damnation reject the savior.
    That s right Not all will go to heaven . Many will stand before God and with a hardened hard reject the savior right up to the judgement .
    The Bible is real clear on this subject . If and only if you really want to know.
    Most people don’t really want answers to life , they just want their own way. Rebellion
    YES their is a Heaven , And YES their is a HELL
    Reserved for those who reject the Truth and follow their ow way .
    NOT MY Way, YOUR Way , Gods Way.
    Entitlement Programs are not and will not send people to hell or heaven .
    This political system has NOTHING to Do with God, Godliness, or heaven or hell

  51. Actually, I am trusting God to judge and repay the evil people have done to others and to me personally. It says in the Bible God will repay our enemies, ” Vengeance is mine says the Lord” but it also says, “If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all people. ”

    Hateful and horrible people including christians, make it impossible to live peaceably with them. It’s a maddening and frustrating world.

    Certain people say the government doesn’t have to help the poor and yet we live in a society which has invested in government for all people. If people cannot see the duplicity and hypocrisy in having a government for all but healthcare or rights for some– then they think that government is for themselves and not everyone.

    John P. has every right to cry out to God about the injustice people voted for on this earth. I feel the same way. I struggle with my own anger and disgust– this is what I bring to Jesus. Forgive me as I forgive others and lead me not into temptation .

    God will judge us and we will either be punished or shown mercy. I don’t know specifically what that means. But it makes sense that someone who does evil to others until the day they die will not be rewarded by God in the after life.

    Only God knows what we deserve based on how we have lived. Grace is the agent by which we overcome and deal with our personal sin but those who sin and make excuses for themselves or sin with the thought that it doesn’t matter or that God will approve or that they are exempt because they believe the blood of Jesus covers them– are ignoring the grace offered by God– which is the opportunity to grow in love.

    Grace covers us so that we might get up in the morning and do good on this earth not so we can get up in the morning and do harm.

    • …and how do we forgive our enemies or forgive those who spitefully use and abuse us?

      Forgive them for they know not what they do– for they are raining the judgement of God down on their own heads.

      • When ever I have difficulty forgiving someone, all I have to do is remind myself that God has forgiven me. That is the great equalizer. As I consider my self a much worse sinner, than anyone around me.

        • leslie, you make these kind of comments all the time. From what I have read in your comments on this blog for the past year, you describe God as vegeneful and coming back to make a blood bath of people who are not Christians and who don’t see things the way you do. You are in and they are out.

          leslie, I see your pat answers as a way of denying accountability for the evil done by Christians who you agree with.

          • Right you are Kathy A. And this assurance that God has forgiven the wrong done because the wrongdoer believes he/she has been forgiven is hard to see when it is done over and over and over. Do some folks think God does not see the pattern?

            At any rate, no matter how harsh the rebuke given may be, including this supposed wish for “those who disagree politically” to go to hell, that rebuke is STILL based in Biblical truth and the teachings of Jesus Christ. If it was me or those I supported being convicted with the word, I would at least discuss the possibility he is right, and examine it quite closely because I am just not sure God is gonna be accepting of “but Killary was worse” and “we dodged a bullet” as we supported the man riding rough shod over the true “least of these!”

          • Kathy A. –There are many many instances in the bible where God is vengeful, wrathful, judgmental of his Children. (it’s not my imagination). That God will return to Judge, is not my idea, He said it. Will you believe what He says? I’m not looking forward to Judgment Day, I hope it’s a long time coming. (so more can turn to Jesus & be saved.)

            –even Pastor John says he hopes for the Judgement Day of the wicked. Those that accept Messiah, (which is the same as accepting the Father), will be seen, by The Father, as Holy. Again, that’s not my imagination, God says it, many, many times.

            I totally respect your decision not to believe what the bible says. I never ridicule or judge you. I just have a different set of beliefs.

            I criticize pastor John, because he still has some vestiges of Christianity. And he welcomes all to the Table. I care about any that are on the fence, and I care that many are turning away from the saving Truth.

            • I could say the same about you, Your truth is just that Your truth. What I take issue with is you tend to condemn those who don’t follow your interpretation to the letter. Just perhaps I may be right, but you tend to come across as so smug as not to consider anyone else’s beliefs or interpretations. Please stop trying to save us, we are not lost. I have a very intimate relationship with God.

              • leslie m.
                I have found your posts to be from a place of humility, love and Truth. I appreciate the graciousness with which you write.
                I don’t alway agree with your views but I highly respect the way you present them.

                In peace and love,
                Just Another Sinner

            • leslie m — you said “I totally respect your decision not to believe what the bible says. I never ridicule or judge you. I just have a different set of beliefs.”

              I think that was an assumption on your part. I do believe the Bible. I am not a literalist because the bible was not written in 2017 with modern english words and phrases. The translations are not literal word for word so I personally think we should be cognizant of that when reading it.

              I don’t hope for anyone’s judgement rather I trust God will be both merciful and just. I don’t think God’s wrath is like man’s idea of anger and vengeance which is the drift I get from you.

              I see Jesus as coming back to rescue people from evil. It is the same idea you have but you are looking at Jesus coming back to punish the people doing evil. It makes more sense, to me, to look at the good news.

              Anyways, there is not enough time or space to get in to a long conversation about it.

              and I appreciate your civility.

          • “leslie, I see your pat answers as a way of denying accountability for the evil done by Christians who you agree with.”

            Too right, Kathy A. Too right.

    • Kathy A. –as you know God doesnt punish Believers (that is, punishment in eternal hell). His will Children remain with him for Eternity, in Heaven.

      God does discipline his Children in this World. He corrects us. And it is painful, but it’s not punishment. It’s a loving Father’s discipline that hurts for a short while.

      • Considering punishment and discipline are synonyms I would say you have issues with understanding that when a Christian sins and does evil they will be held accountable as well.

        pun·ish·ment
        ˈpəniSHmənt/Submit
        noun

        –the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offence. “crime demands just punishment”

        –Synonyms: penalty, penance, sanction, sentence, one’s just deserts; discipline, correction, vengeance, justice, judgment;

        • Kathy A.

          ‘Discipline’ means to teach –just as a mother disciplines her 8 year old by showing him how to clean his room, and what is expected. [And if you are a quick study, you will escape punishment altogether.]

          • yes discipline and punishment go hand in hand. So, it follows logically God does punish us if we can’t be disciplined.

  52. I don’t know if it will be any help, but while I’m not a believer in eternal damnation — or damnation of any kind, really, except possibly self-imposed — when I am most viscously angry at something –like this — I put some hope in, not eternal torment, but a ‘post-life review’ where the deceased gets to experience all their interactions with the world, direct or indirect, from the other’s perspective. Unmediatedly.

    Most of the time, I hope for more mercy than that. Lately, that’s been difficult.

  53. What I hope is that when people who have been intolerant, violent, hateful, selfish… in the name of God (whichever one they claim) that when they die they are gently taken into the lap of their God and told that they got it all wrong. That their interpretation of another humans interpretation of God’s “word” was incorrect. That their only punishment for being so twisted is their full comprehension and remorse of how they lived and to try to spread the love to those who still exist on earth. Perhaps that would be considered “hell” to them but hopefully the intent and vibes will spread and there will eventually be Peace on Earth and Goodwill towards all.

  54. Dear John Pavlovitz Reader:

    — Draconian health care legislation ending Medicaid as a guaranteed program based on need — PASSED!

    — 8,000 Flint residents face foreclosure for refusing to pay for poisoned water!

    — Mass casualties at Mexico/US border — 6,000+ dead since 2000.

    — Woman gets year in jail after laughing at US attorney general confirmation hearing.

    How will the US survive its descent into Greatness?

    Blessings!

  55. This is not about hoping people will go to hell rather it is about hoping for God’s justice which is going to be hell for them.

    • Sandi, if you’re married, I recommend that you focus on making love to your husband and not giving all your attention to being John’s apologist.

  56. Wow. Joe Catholic must be getting paid by the comment now. And Westboro Baptist Church must be having a conference and membership drive this week. Scary. :l

    • Joe Catholic claims to be employed. It’s sad how much he is stealing from his employer by writing on this blog instead of working at his job.

      • I don’t know about his job but he sure IS working overtime here. I’m fairly certain he’s not a PR man. :/

        • A while back, he claimed to work in IT.

          If an employer is paying him for work, then Joe catholic is stealing from his employer.

            • I really have. This healthcare thing was just more than I could take without losing it. Fortunately. my wife and two kids area really strong and healthy and will probably be okay without health insurance. There is no way we can afford to pay out of pocket the $2,300 dollars per month that all family health insurance for everyone will now cost under Trumpcare. It would bankrupt us and leave zero money for retirement.

              But hey, do I have a plan for Joe Catholic. I have several major health problems, and will be 65 (Medicare age) this year—signing up on September 1. The way I see it, my health problems will cost Joe Catholic at least $1 million dollars or more before the Grim Reaper calls. If I can drain Joe’s wallet dry before I die. it will have all been worth it. BIG SMILE!!!

              • I hear you. I have family members caught up in this healthcare fiasco. I know many people who’ve had to choose between feeding or insuring themselves; was finacially more feasible to take the tax penalty. And now, regarding treatment, some person in a suit, that I don’t know, is playing my doctor and deciding what care and medication I can receive. Should just make an office visit with him and avoid the wait.

                Regarding Joe? He deserves every inflated Tylenol capsule you’ll take… Will be fun!

                Take care of yourself! Ha! I’m not, I could do better! I’m suspecting I’ll have (another) “big one”… And then fly like an eagle! Ha! Woo!

                This blog’s a mess.

              • Aww…. Yay! Ha! I like you too! 🙂 We certainly have some Susan’s showing up in here….

                Lord, I’m worn out. Time for bed. I’ll let you night owls have at it.

                Love Jesus and Love others. By all means.

  57. Thank you for your uncomfortable confession, John P. I myself am distressed that I’ve become a person who hates and who wishes harm on others, and I’ve stopped thinking of Paul Ryan, Donald Trump, et al., as people but as monsters. I’ve become a person who believes in evil. It’s not bad enough that the monsters wield so much power over the fates of so many people — now they seem to have control of my soul and turned ME into a hate-filled person.

    In my more rational moments, I know that Hell won’t solve anything. Vengeance won’t save a single life nor save the planet. Hell was invented to scare people into doing the right thing. If the greedy and powerful, most of whom claim to believe in an authoritarian OT God, aren’t dissuaded from the idea of Hell NOW, actual Hell does nothing but temporarily satisfy the darker desires of our human nature.

    If I were Queen, I would condemn every one of these monsters to (1) Liquidate all their assets and give everything to charity (2) Live with their families for two years in an urban or rural community on food stamps and minimum wage jobs, (3) Watch four hours a day of nature documentaries, and (4) Be prohibited from running for office until all elections are PUBLICLY funded.

    My hope for myself is that my own anger-fueled hatred toward the monsters and their monstrous acts can be transformed into loving resolve. On days like today, I feel pretty low on resolve and pretty full-up with hatred. I feel better knowing that this happens to the best of us. (That’s you.) Thank you for your important ministry.

    • Vicky, I’ve had similar thoughts about these politicians who act so inhumanely. My idea is this – remember the show hosted by Morgan Spurlock, ” 30 Days”? Where someone would be stripped of access to their bank account, given a pittance and have to get a job and a place to live with it, and stick i it out for 30 days? That’s what I’d love to do to the lot of them. They’d all be screaming for mercy within 30 minutes if they had to live like the people they purport to represent.

    • Vicky. –the day that I realized there was such a thing as evil, is the day I got saved by Jesus. Prior to that, I thought that people were good. How stupid could I be?

      • leslie m
        This is so true. And somewhere on here i was reading a comment with a post about human’s first inclination is compassion for others, this is not true. The first inclination is to sin, but with Jesus and the Holy Spirit we can take captive our thoughts as 2 Corin 10:5 says:
        We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

        In peace and love,
        Just Another Sinner

        • You don’t know anyone’s first inclination. What about Abel, Job, John the Baptist? It never says in the Bible exactly how they become perfect and righteous men when they weren’t christians and didn’t say the sinners prayer. And, what about Jesus he was human what was his first inclinations? If you say he struggled with sin then what are you saying? I find you pat statements blithely lacking in depth or understanding.

  58. John, you are a true preacher of the true Gospel. If you wish Trump to Hell though, you need to pray and seek more grace. Don’t ask the Evangelicals. Its clear now they are not of Jesus but of money, filthily lucre, Trump, Ayn Rand, prideful, unrepetenant unforgiveness toward the poor, whom Jesus told us to love. And by the inheritance class, lazy and self appointed deserving. No grace in them, its easy to see, as Jesus said by their works and hateful words about you and the true Gospel. I am particularly appalled at those who term the words of Christ- comfort the sick, visit the prisoners, turn the other check, to be ” a cult” Christ did found a cult. Its called Christianity. The Bible Baptists and Southern Baptists and most Pentecostals left Christianity for the worship of money the ridiculous worship of “markets” , Wal Mart and meanness. They base their whole false religion on two things Christ never mentioned- abortion and homosexuality. Yet when it comes to a moral person who isn’t a fundy, they condemn them, saying only Grace matters!!! You either believe the government is an agent of morality or you don’t. You fundys still have to repent…

  59. So perhaps the Old Testament in particular, and even New Testament images of divine judgment make more sense to you now? When God strikes down greedy liars like Ananias and Sapphira or power hungry blasphemers like Herod?

    I think the problem with many who chafe at the idea of divine judgment, true active judgment where God punishes sinners, have never fully experienced the end of the sinners stick. Jesus did plead for them to be forgiven, but he also warned them of very real consequences if they did not. Not just passive consequences, but an active destruction by him when he returns with an army of angels.

    Divine judgment isn’t bad, but a necessary good. Sometimes even holy when done by a holy God. But don’t believe in hell merely out of a sense of personal revenge, believe it exists because it is just and right for it be. This is also why those saved in the end will not be distraught. Salvation will perfect God’s people in their sense of justice such that eternal hell will be seen as the just reward for those there.

    I also note there ARE limits to what can be called “truly Christian”. There are boundaries more meaningful than self-definition to who can be called a follower of Jesus. There is a place for “You call me Lord, Lore, but depart for I never knew you”. We may disagree on how much a confessional statement is a part of those boundaries, but I’m glad to see we agree some boundaries exist.

    I read some things here and I see much overreaction to a fundamentalist past. I think this article shows some of the flaws in over correcting.

    Though I do hope you are able to finally find some peace in Jesus on your new ministry venture. The way I see it, some righteous anger is good and just, but anger from despair is improper for Jesus is still Lord and Caesar never will be.

    • Father E, thank you . I think you make important points here and it makes sense. I have a difficult time with the idea of hell and punishment but I think there has to be justice but God can show mercy

  60. John,
    Your comments thread reads a lot like Yahoo’s–and proves the point you’ve made often, about many self-labeled Christians. Here’s a man in great pain, certainly in empathy for others, maybe over his family and friends, and they pounce with both cleated feet to judge and attack him. When did attacking someone’s suffering become a Christian value? I suppose St. Francis is out of fashion these days, but in an attempt to “sow love,” let me say that I appreciate your posts and join you in pain for those who will suffer from this vote–most of the country–taken on National Day of Prayer and celebrated with a beer party afterwards.

    • Bless you Mary and thank you for that comment. I am glad you get it. This has been a very telling thread and some so-called Christians should be deeply ashamed IMO.

    • Mary, I think you’re using much tortured logic in order to justify your guru’s shameful post. He’s not “in pain.” He’s wishing an eternity of pain on some good people.

  61. Well, at least Mr. Pavlovitz has finally abandoned all pretenses that this blog is primarily about anything other than absolute disdain and visceral hatred for anyone opposite him ideologically. Wishing eternal damnation on someone is no small thing. Who he’d like to see burn forever is telling.

    Was it the Orlando nightclub shooter, who snuffed out 50 innocent lives?

    Negative.

    How about the Paris attackers or the man who ran over and killed scores of people out enjoying a lovely evening in Nice?

    Also no.

    Surely the Islamic State deserves such a fate. They burn people alive and toss others to their death off rooftops for not toeing their strict Islamic line and being homosexual respectively. Or maybe Bashar al-Assad, who uses chemical weapons to kill his own people. Surely such heinous acts have inspired the good pastor to put pen to paper in order to express his desire they reside forever after in a lake of fire. It’s at least tweet-worthy, right? Even if he can’t be bothered to compose an entire blog post, banging out 140 characters isn’t that time consuming.

    Survey says…nope and nope.

    So who is worthy of the everlasting torment of hell? If none of the above cleared the extremely high bar set for admission into Hades, who possibly could? The answer: A group of men and women who voted to repeal a law that he’s in favor of. A law so unpopular that it cost his party control of two of the branches of government, and guaranteed that the third would remain tilting away from him for another 25 or 30 years.

    Mass murder? Crimes against humanity? Pfffft. Don’t bring that trivial nonsense up in here, friend. Voting to return the health insurance system to 2009, when the life expectancy in the United States was higher than it is now? Unforgivable.

  62. Bruton Gaster, All you demonstrate here is your inability to read with comprehension. Something I was taught in elementary school.

  63. Bruton Gaster, All you demonstrate here is your inability to read with comprehension. Something I was taught in elementary school.

    You misread John so completely that it had to take a lot of effort on your part.

    • No, I got it. The title of the piece is “Today, I hope there is a hell.” “I hope” being the key words. He didn’t say that he believed the GOP side of the house would end up in hell. It wasn’t simply, “in my opinion, I think that is where they will end up.” Instead, he took the time to write about how much he now hopes there is a hell, so said Representatives can burn in it. Opposing Obamacare is apparently the only mortal sin, in his eyes.

      In my almost 40 years I have never heard a pastor explicitly state, or even imply in the slightest, he desired to see another human suffer eternally. I’ve never been to his church, though. Maybe it’s not uncommon there.

      • “In my almost 40 years I have never heard a pastor explicitly state, or even imply in the slightest, he desired to see another human suffer eternally.”

        I suspect, though, that there are a lot of pastors, priests, ministers, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and popes who have thought it because it is a very human thought.

        John P is merely being honest, in my opinion. We of the faith are being asked to turn a blinds’ eye to a staggering level of hypocrisy. It’s time to name it for what it is. That we can get a grip on it and improve.

        • So he can say something patently awful, but because he’s being honest, we should praise him for it? That’s lucid.

          Don’t disagree about the hypocrisy, though. It’s everywhere.

            • Do you think he’s lost his marbles?

              Or is this possibly a very calculated move to garner clicks and cash?

              He’s trying to sell a book too..

              • No, I think he is being honest about how he feels. Human beings want justice when people do horrible things.

                Bonhoeffer wanted Hitler dead (i.e. punished) and he was a christian. In addition, Eric Metaxas made money off selling a book about Bonhoeffer (because he thought it was an important story)

                Get off your high horse Bruton.

                • Hitler was directly responsible for the death of multiple millions of people. Paul Ryan voted for a law that repealed another law. Not exactly comparable actions. If the author had said he hoped Hitler was burning in hell, no one would take issue. He did not. Instead he reserves hell for congressmen doing exactly what they campaigned on. Congratulations on completely missing the point, willfully or otherwise.

                  • Don’t try to minimize or normalize what Paul Ryan and the GOP in the house did. They replaced a horrible flawed but working plan, ObamaCare, with TrumpCare that will result in millions losing health insurance, mostly become the health insurance will be unaffordable. They might as well call this the unaffordable care act. Many of those in the ACA exchange will lose health insurance but the biggest losers will be the ones with pre-existing conditions if they could not keep continual coverage. The return of high-risk pools will make health insurance for the ones who need it worst unaffordable because it is always underfunded. $8 billion will barely help this at all.

                    It takes a special kind of monster to tell people “I will be merciful” and then ramrod a bill that takes away health insurance and thus access to healthcare. The working poor will die earlier because they can’t get Medicaid nor afford health insurance.

                    • The life expectancy in the U.S. has gone down since Obamacare was passed. First time in more than 20 years that has happened. Is the ACA the culprit? Most certainly not. But let’s stop with the “PEOPLE WILL DIE!” bit, when the current system doesn’t appear to be making people healthier. You just admitted it’s horrible and flawed. The same people putting out that the death of millions is imminent were on the “If you like your healthcare, you can keep your healthcare” bandwagon eight years ago, so their credibility on the issue isn’t exactly the greatest.

                      And stop comparing Paul Ryan to Hitler. It’s ludicrous.

                    • Bruton, the problems with the ACA were forced into it by the GOP so that they would vote for it 7 years ago. Most of the problems come from them wanting insurance companies to make more money and resisting controls on prices, which are used in other nations. If big insurance knew they would and SHOULD be threatened with annihilation in the medical insurance realm, we would not have them controlling the government, they would be part of the solution. There are European systems that are market based (contrary to the Fox view that all of Europe is socialist) But in those countries, costs are controlled. The GOP plain is murderous. They compare to Stalin, who killed with policies he knew would kill, just as they are doing. All for this idiot vision of “markets” being allowed to charge any price. You are right that there is some exaggeration about how good ACA is. But this is just small lies being used to fight big ones. Fox has created from whole cloth the false narrative that the ACA is a disaster. It needs fixing from the problems forced onto it by the GOP but won’t get that from murderous Trumpcare.

                    • Frank Hartzell, you wrote “Fox has created from whole cloth the false narrative that the ACA is a disaster. It needs fixing from the problems forced onto it by the GOP but won’t get that from murderous Trumpcare.”

                      AMEN

                      Every single thing that is wrong with the ACA was what the GOP forced upon it.

                    • Actually, from the Data World Bank, life expectancy from birth in the United States has increase 0.2 years from 2010, when the ACA was enacted, to 2016. The death rate per 100,000 in the US was 747 in 2010 to 724.6 in 2014.

                      Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis rate deaths, suicides, and poisonings (with the male population death rate increasing greatly from 13.8/100,000 males in 2010 to 17.3/100,000 males in 2014) had a steady increase from 2010 (combined 32.1/100,000) to 2014 (combined 36.5/100,000). A major cause of cirrhosis, suicides, and poisonings tend to be drug use, which we know meth and opioid use and abuse has increased, especially in rural areas that have fewer jobs than before.

                      Increased access to healthcare since 2010 may be a factor in the declining death rates in the US in spite of the median age of the population slowly increasing. The number of uninsured Americans has decreased greatly from 17.1% in 2013 to 10.9% in 2016 (Gallop Poll). Many of the exchange health insurance plans purchased may be poor in coverage, it does include 100% coverage of certain diagnostic medical procedures. The biggest concern recently with the ACA is that the premiums are skyrocketing as health insurers are finding ways around the overhead cost limit, which is extremely generous, and a very limited health insurance market.

                      There seems to be a thought among the radical conservatives that healthcare is, or should be, a free market. Free markets work well when people can do without or substitute goods based upon cost. If we are talking about SUVs people can do without them but people can’t really do without healthcare, unless they want to die early. People will, and have, mortgaged their house to get heart surgery or treatment for cancer because the alternative is to die and you can’t take the money you would save not getting treatment with you.

                      Healthcare is a service and must be run as a service, not a market, just like the US Postal Service is a service, not a for-profit business. Utilities are more of a service since government regulation is still a big factor in their business. Even car insurance, which most conservatives call a “free market”,used as an analog to what health insurance should be, is heavily regulated by the state.

                      Under the House AHCA plan most of that all goes away. The return to high-risk pools and the ability to radically increase premiums based upon pre-exisiting conditions for those unable to have continuous coverage will push premiums to record amounts for less coverage, causing more, not less, people to lose health insurance coverage. The AHCA is so bad that many of the Senators, Democrat and Republican, are going to reject it outright.

                    • Uh Oh Robin, you have gotten in between a man and the ‘alternative facts’ he has accepted as gospel…tread carefully they do not like that…