Evangelical Preachers, Stop Crediting God With Donald Trump’s Victory

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Dear Evangelical Preachers,

I think you believe you’re helping right now.
I think you believe you’re actually glorifying God.

I think you believe you’re somehow bolstering the Gospel.
I think you believe that you’re engineering some conversation-stopping, sanctified mic drop, by crediting God with Donald Trump’s ascension to the U.S. Presidency.

You’re not doing anyone of these things.

You’re not sharing the Good News of Jesus.
You’re not evangelizing.
You’re not making disciples.
You’re not helping.

You’re making from the pulpit and platform, the greatest case for Atheism you could ever make.

You’re aligning God with an ignorant, petulant, narcissistic bully.
You’re putting God’s rubber stamp on unprecedented racism, bigotry, and violence.
You’re attributing to God, the most despicable treatment of women, the greatest intolerance toward the marginalized, the least compassion for the hurting.
In other words, you’re assassinating the character of Jesus in an effort to rub non-Christian’s noses in it.

Crediting Donald Trump’s win to “God” is the best conceivable argument for someone rejecting faith.

If God is responsible for the unbridled vulgarity, the viciousness toward people of color, the utter disregard for diversity that the President has so continually displayed this year—you can keep God.

If God sanctions someone like Trump to the highest place of leadership we have—you can have that God.

If God is that partisan, God is not a God who “so loved the world”, but One who has contempt for most of it.

If you’re asking me to agree that a God who is love, can also be a God who votes Trump, you can stop right now because that’s laughable and ludicrous. 

Fortunately, I know God isn’t responsible for this disaster:

God didn’t campaign for Donald Trump.
God didn’t fail to report on the sexual assault allegations against him.
God didn’t give incendiary sermons.

God didn’t hack into our databases.
God didn’t generate fake news stories.
God didn’t suppress voters.
God didn’t refuse to educate himself on the issues.
God didn’t reject experience for celebrity.
God didn’t have his racism emboldened.
God didn’t manufacture hatred for Hillary Clinton.
God didn’t excuse sexual assault for a Supreme Court seat.
God didn’t choose party over country.
God didn’t stay home on Election Day.

I think God watched it all and wept.

It’s rather telling that the same God you’re crediting for Donald Trump now, seems to have had nothing to do with the past 8 years of Barack Obama. Guess God was offline or sleeping during those two terms.

Preacher, there is nothing to be gained by using the President-Elect as supposed evidence of God’s work in the world. It bears no good fruit. It has no redemptive value.

All it does is pour salt into the gaping wounds of marginalized communities who feel threatened and vulnerable right now. It says to people of color and Muslims and the LGBTQ community and women, that God is not for them. It confirms for those already viewing Christians as all hypocritical, dangerous, and self-serving—that they are correct in this assumption.

You’re wasting your platform, failing your calling, and squandering an audience with millions of people by giving God credit for a madman’s success.

Stop it. 

Stop passing the buck to God. 

 

 

 

 

363 thoughts on “Evangelical Preachers, Stop Crediting God With Donald Trump’s Victory

      • I dont know what God thinks but I know what God is like through the example of Jesus by reading about who he hung around with and what he cares about, read the Gospels.

        • Why doesn’t God tell us what he thinks using actual words newer than 2,000 years old to a group of people that can verify it, at least one of whom has a phone that can actually record it?

          • Good point Paul, this is why the Bible is not telling us what God thinks as much as who God is. For example, God is creator, God is love, God is merciful, God is life and spirit.

            We still have to make our own choices. We still have to use our own minds to make decisions. But, one thing the Bible says that Jesus thought was wise is we should pray and ask God for sustenance and to be thankful for life and the good things we have no matter how small or insignificant they are. I don’t think this means God is our fairy godmother and will grant all our wishes, rather God gives comfort, strength, peace and loads of grace. When we are loved by God we can do the impossible. We can forgive, we can get up in the morning no matter our circumstance and still find a way to bless others in God’s name.

            It goes deeper than having money, health, leisure, popularity or power. Though the Bible is written 2,000 years ago and further in the past than that, many of the ideas written down about God are quite extraordinary and beyond the understanding of the writers of that time. When Moses sought the name of God to give him legitimacy with the people of Israel it says in the OT that God said to Moses, “I AM THAT I AM”.

            God stands out not as some mythogical god who had a name like all the others gods, rather God declared himself to be beyond any name or idea—as a spirit being who we cannot fathom— a being whose thoughts we cannot know, yet who longs for us to know him. There is this thread in the bible, both old testament and new which tells us God wants to have a relationship with us.

            People who read the Bible for the sole purpose of endorsing their positions or to give them an excuse to justify their behaviour or judge and condemn others is reading the Bible wrong. The Bible points us the story of Jesus and asks us to turn our hearts and thoughts to something greater than our circumstances and lot in life and something that is TRUE. The source of all goodness, wisdom, joy, peace, hope and love. God blesses us this way so that we may bless others around us.

            The bible says Jesus came to be God with us. Why did Jesus have to come? I think is was more than just to die. It is evident through the teachings of Jesus he was trying to redirect a lost people who were just not getting the message. In many ways history has shown that the words of Jesus recorded in the bible have stood the test of time. Any thoughts?

            • All of these are your words, as eloquent as they may be. Which brings me back to the question as to why after 2,000 years do we not have words from God himself which might dispel some of the confusion concerning the various interpretations of the Bible, or who among Trump or Obama better represents his values? For years the beauty in words such as yours, and the poetry of so much of the Bible seemed to me to balance its various contradictions, apparent atrocities, and the evident knowledge that so many of it’s adherents seem anxiously awaiting the “end times.” But then you guys whole-heartedly backed and put into power Trump. For all your talk of love, you elected the epitome of hate. For all your talk of truth, evangelicals have done nothing but enthusiastically endorse a sea of lies. All in the name of defeating an enemy – in this case half of Americans united in one aspect, and that is their lack of Christianity. Words can work wonders, but actions do not lie. Those Christians who supported Trump clearly communicated their hate, intolerance, misogyny, and bigotry; and the only words that can now erase this communication are, “I’m sorry.”

              • Spoken like a true lefty. Hate, intolerance, misogyny and bigotry, those are the attributes of the left. It’s routinely articulated on this blog site.

                • Brain I saw nothing in Paul’s text that would or should upset anyone. If you are a Christian and voted for Trump I would really like to know on What Biblical passages you found your call to vote for him.??? I would also like to know where you find the people he has selected for cabinet posts ; show up in the Bible I don”t believe you can. If you find this blog so offensive why are you bothering to spend time here?

                • Well, Brian – as we used to say when we were kids, it takes one to know one. Everything the left has learned about misogyny, bigotry, hate and intolerance it learned from your side of the aisle over the last 8 years. They learned at the feet of the masters.

                  • Susan, We have seen none of this over the last 8 years. Yes, as children we said, It takes one to know one, meaning ultimately that we are all the same. During the past 8 years, we saw none of the characteristics you mentioned. If you want to criticize the former president, could you do so without pinning on him characteristics which come nowhere close to fitting? You can say he had red hair too. That does not make it true.

                • Thank you for giving us a fine example of projection, because those are the defining characteristics of Trump and his most ardent supporters, whom I assume you don’t count among those on the left.

              • Paul, you make valid points. There has been a lot of hypocrisy. I was quite shocked by the amount of christians who supported Trump, some of whom I admired. I just want God to come down and make everything right and clear up all the confusion. But, even if God does come to earth and speaks to us directly, face to face, we would still have to work together to achieve justice and make reparations for the mess the world is in.

                I think you are right there needs to be an apology and a turning from the things Trump ran his campaign on. Well said Paul.

              • God is not silent. The truth, some refer the sound of their own voice of rightness to the ringing truth of Christ’s voice in the ears of their hearts.

              • I don’t see catholicism as Christian. I know it comes under the Christianity banner but Christianity has many redeeming factors where catholicism is pure evil.
                Pro life is not an inherent Christian ethic, it’s a Catholic one, and with it you attack people and attempt to ruin the lives of people exercising the freedom over their own bodies. It’s no surprise the Vatican supported the nazis with ethics like that.

                • Because,
                  It’s clear that you don’t know anything about Catholicism. I invite you to Catholic.com and many other Catholic websites to discover the truth. And you may not know it, but Pope Pius XII during WWII saved somewhere around 800,000 Jews. I’m sure it’s not your fault you don’t know the truth and I don’t blame you but I hope you do learn the truth.

              • I supported Trump and realize he wasn’t the perfect candidate but far more perfect than Hillary and what we have had in office for the last 8 years. God has many times used imperfect people as leaders and He uses them as He sees fit not as we think He should. I am not a bigot, intolerant or a hater so you should know what you are talking about and what you are calling people who supported Trump before you start spouting your words of dislike. No one knows how God will use Trump so we should not try to second guess His reason for putting Trump in the position he will be in come January. We need to give the man a chance, we gave 8 years to Obama and I feel pretty sure Trump couldn’t do near the damage Obama has.

                • So by your reasoning God put Hitler, Stalin, Moussolini, Pol Pot in power???
                  I don’t think so…
                  Try selling this line of crap to a survivor of the Holocaust.

                • I will say this only once. God did not put Trump in office. People did. Just like people put Obama in. Do you think God put Obama in. If you believe he put one but not the other, then your argument has no logic or validation. He either put them both in or he put neither. God can allow it or not allow it. But God gave man freedom of choice, in who they chose, the same as he gives man the choice between choosing right or wrong. Plus the government we are under is an earthly government. Not God’s government. He does however tell us in the bible who to choose as our leaders. In Exodus Ch. 18 verse 21 ; able men such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness, who hate dishonest gain. Men of humility. Which makes me ask, does a man who states that, he has never asked God for forgiveness fear God. He says he is a Christian, but has not only stated he has never asked for forgiveness, but says he has never done anything to be forgiven for. I don’t know any person on the face of this earth that has not done something that they don’t need forgiven for. The bible says that … ALL … have sinned. Trump said I don’t bring God into it. On that note, I would say that Mr. Graham should tread lightly, with his words, because of his high position, when he says that God heard the peoples prayers, to put someone in who believes in God. Mr. Graham does not know if Mr. Trump believes in God or not. The only ones that know that are Mr. Trump and God. The bible says you will know them by their fruit, so you be the judge as to whether his fruit shows he does or not. Personally, I don’t think they do. One does not cheat others, blatantly lie, use the type of language he uses, calls people names like he does, when ever anyone disagrees with him. Before anyone suggest I am a liberal or supported Clinton, I didn’t. Out of 17 people running the people insisted on picking the 2 worse possible choices. But it is to late now. I do know that God does not bless a mess and that is what we have. So I only pray that he will have mercy on us.

                  • Free will…this is the gift He bestowed on us…it is also a heavy responsibility….God did not vote for Trump…and let me just say this….this did not take Him by surprise…He knew this would happen…and I agree…I pray He has mercy on us and equips us to do what He wants us to do..

                  • Very true Paulette. It seems many Christians do not value humility at all anymore and would likely not recognize Jesus if they lived next door to him.

                • Waynette, you really aren’t paying attention to what’s happening now. Trump has done more damage in 3 weeks than just about ANY President has done in 3 years! If this goes on much longer, we are doomed. There won’t be a country left by the end of this year.

                • Thank you Waynette, I’m writing this in March. So hard to understand how differently people think and believe. The bible says we have all come short of the glory of God, we are all sinners, those who believe and accepted Christ are saved by grace. I am a Christian first and as a Christian the Republican party happens to support my faith closer than the Democratic party. Is Trump a perfect man? No, but he acknowledges God and has put godly men on his cabinet. President Trump does not deserve the ill-fitting accusations said against him by John Pavlovitz who in essence is a false teacher. People beware!

                  • And Trump and company are Christian Nationalists. Check back after they’ve torn this country apart, making it Christian before Jesus returns. How will we like it then? I wish people would learn some history. Nothing good ever comes out of a movement like this.

              • Brain I saw nothing in Paul’s text that would or should upset anyone. If you are a Christian and voted for Trump I would really like to know on What Biblical passages you found your call to vote for him.??? I would also like to know where you find the people he has selected for cabinet posts ; show up in the Bible I don”t believe you can. If you find this blog so offensive why are you bothering to spend time here?

              • Paul, no not all of us put Trump there. There are a lot of us that did not support or vote for him and the evil he represents. Please do not judge all of us. I as a Christian are even more appalled than people who aren’t. The people that picked him do not represent all of us.

              • First there’s no such thing as pro abortion. 2nd guess you missed where it said judge not least you be judged so what gives you the same rights as God. Only ignorant hateful think you’re a Christians based their vote on one small plank of a platform while overlooking hate filled lying rants by an idiot trasonous traitor. So shut up

              • Joe Catholic,

                The GOP’s resolve to eliminate the ACA without a better health insurance plan IN PLACE is NOT PRO-LIFE because doing so will terminate such insurance for over 20 million Americans who now have it through the ACA.

                Instead of improving the ACA, the GOP will place at risk and indeed even cause the death of thousands among that 20 million. Any health insurance statistician will tell you that is a FACT. It is especially so because because there is a higher percentage of chronically ill people with insurance through the ACA.

                So, if you (Mr. Joe Catholic) and your party are fine with the suffering and death of thousands of fellow Americans while the GOP dithers around–it’s had at least eight years to come up with a better plan and still they offer nothing–then you and your party are NOT PRO-LIFE.
                It’s all too easy, especially for self-righteous men, to claim they are pro-life by seeking to control the bodies of women,

                But there is far more to being pro-life than that. Far more.

              • Paul, I enjoyed reading your post. In reading the Bible, we know that Jesus came to save us and so the New Testament is what we should focus on, right?

                So who better follows the example of Jesus Christ – Donald Trump or Barack Obama?
                For me, it’s clear – I understand for other people it is less so.

                For me, Obama’s eloquence, intelligence, and competence were the things that got me to vote for him initially. But his humility, compassion, kindness and empathy for others is what made me love and admire him.

                He truly loves and respects his wife – it’s palpable to see them together and he is a good father to their daughters, as well. I loved his interactions with young visitors to the White House as well. Beautiful to see. And children are usually great judges of character.

              • God already spoke when he said
                Love the Lord with all your heart soul and mind and your neighbor as you do yourself.

                But !!!! He also gave us free will and satin still exist with his plan for mankind.

                It is up to you to decide who you will to follow.

                • I really believe God gave us the ability and spiritual tools necessary to make sound Judgements. He also sent his son Yeshua to an be an example. Do you people actually believe that Trump exemplifies any of Yeshua’s teachings. Would he go around bragging about sexual immorality? Of course not! Would he worship money or power, of course not? You know in your hearts that Trump is not living this way. You voted for this man out of fear and hatred. I still love you as children of God, just be honest and try to find ways to bring us together not drive us apart.

              • Paul, thank you for your thoughts. Jesus came about 2000 years ago and showed us, by word and deed, how to live. He said: “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” If you or anyone else haven’t listened to Jesus and put his teachings into practice, do you really think the same words spoken today would change things? His message would be the same.

              • Paul, Brilliant, and very well said. This is the essence of the Bible, the truth never fails and it will not fail now.

            • Well said Kathy, when I read your words it becomes clear that you have done your homework. You and those like you restore my faith in the human race. I believe Yeshua, Jesus would bless you and tell you to share your truth with everyone.

            • When Trump sells all his worldly possessions, gives the money to the poor and goes out to sick, the this dingaling can talk about these to opposite ways of living in the same sentence. Jesus said to pay taxes… Trumo brags about being greedy and greed is the basis of all the seven deadly sins. The Bible commands that people not charge interest on loans to your brother and Jesus said all ken are brothers WHICH MEANS THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF UNREPENTANT CHRISTIAN SINNERS that this Minister should be preaching to be I bet he collects capital gains too and won’t try ti stoo or confess… I can’t understand how anybody can’t fail to see what a scam this is. Pitiful… Like the idiots who want to put a likeness of the Ten Commandments in government building eith a shortened version of the wording when the the Ten Commandments call for death to anyone who makes any likeness and any one who shortens the word ing by even one letter is ti be torture by God and four generations of their children are ti face similar tirture by God… Smite the knees, covered in boils, children abd possessions taken away… Yet these jokes gi to court ti try abd force government officials ti go along with their unabashed and unbelievably stupid abd selfish behavior. The Shroud of Turin is a fraud instead of spending another cebt in it burn it abd have oeople give money that would gi to it to poor Catholics in Africa, Jesus nods his head yes…

            • Thank You Kathy for that. I would add that God not only wants us to be thankful for the good in our lives but to go to him in prayer and Thanksgiving for the painful and not so good things in our lives.

            • Wonderful loving words that speak love and hope in a way that speaks both simply and profoundly of our older brother, the pattern son. Thank you

              • God does know what is sufficient, and he did do it. He gave us 66 books, called the Bible, his word. But he expects us to read it and follow what he says in it. Unfortunately most of the people who said they were Evangelicals apparently didn’t.

          • Because god is nothing more than an idea, an escape from reality, and an excuse used by people who are too week to own their actions.

      • I think God is aware, very aware, of what Christians think.
        Prayers for a change, no matter the outcome.
        Whatever He Wills/decides to follow…

        And it was delivered.

      • We know how God thinks by paying close attention to what Jesus says. “Evangelicals” risk God’s wrath if they putheir words in Jesus’ mouth. in the end He may say, “Why do you call me ‘Lord ! Lord !’ and do not what I say?” And in the Old Testament the prophets speak for God – so we listen to them as well.

      • He has given us the scriptures as an insight into His thoughts. He gave us His Son, that we would learn through Jesus’ examples.

      • No Satan gets that honor for he is the instigator of confusion and chaos. God can use anyone no matter how vile and despicable for His good. We don’t have to like it. God does not need nor want our support or permission. But how else can you explain how Trump came from so far behind to win? He used His people He opened our eyes to see and our ears to hear. Sadly some refused to listen instead they listened to the lies of Satan and convinced them that God would never use a man like Trump to do good things. Time will tell.

        • Be careful. Read the Prophets. Habakkuk was concerned that unrighteousness abounded among the people of God and complained that God wasn’t doing anything about it. God replied that He was putting the Chaldeans, evil leaders, into power to punish His people.

    • No Katie, not Amen. I would read your Bible before following a false prophet.

      Romans 13:1-7 is foundational for understanding proper civic attitudes: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

      • So Justin,
        The Jews were to give honor to Hitler?? Hitler was a mad man Insan with a hardened heart and not listening to God. Trump is the same.
        God gave everyone a free will to do what is right in God’s holiness. Not the people’s ideas of right. We all pay the consequences of our Choice.
        Same as abortion. It’s not God’s will but, people are given a choice to choose what they will do. God is not a dictator. The evangelicals of today want to dictate to others, take away their rights of free will just like the Pharasees. The same Pharasee who’s demanded Christ be crucified because they didn’t like him freeing people from laws and sin. Afraid he was going to draw all the people to him instead of their controlling and condeming Religion. You respect a same person not one who is evil and taking people free will to choose.

        • It is no minor feat to recognize that Israel became a nation immediately after all of their conflicts due to Hitler. Could Hitler been planned to bring Israel home? Could that whole event have been a black swan event? (look it up). How dare God sacrifice the innocent to save the guilty? To save a nation, right?

    • In the Bible it does tell about the end times due to the sins and curuptions of our world. How do you think God feels when he looks down on earth and see how corrupt his world is and how people are changing his laws and commandments to suit their needs. We are changing God’s laws to suit our own wants and needs and forgetting about the Ten Commandments he commanded of us on how to live. How do you think God feels about the laws or commandments that he left for us. How do you think God feels when we the people are changing his ten laws that he has given us. How do you think God feels about Abortions, and gay marriage. We the people are changing his laws so now we the people will reap what we sow which is the wrath of God. We are One Nation Built Under God and God is pissed

    • Hmmm…in the Bible..were any of the Kings that God appointed.. any less of a sinner than Trump? No! God show me in July that Trump would Be president. And in September he showed me a prophetic scene in the clouds that showed the transition from Obama to Trump. I posted the photo on my Facebook. In the cloud was God’s hand holding Trump over the back of a lamb…Israel. there was a man with a black head with one arm around the neck of the lamb and the other arm over its shoulder…it was Obama. Between Obama head and lamb head was a rats head…Palestine. between Trump and Obama was a bear head…Russia. there was a chute coming down from the top of the cloud formation and the bear was at the bottom. At the top a serpant..Satan..was starting to come down towards the bear. All of these things are in one amazing photo I took of the cloud formation. It was a prophecy of the whole situation of God ushering in the transition to Trump as President. God did indeed put Trump in as President of the United States. Trump is praising God and he will accomplish great things for our country with God’s blessings! Praise God in Jesus Christ Lord of Lords and King of kings!

      • I will definitely pray for you. God does not get involved in politics. He expects us to respect His word and do what His Word says. If we are not obeying God’s 2nd greatest commandment to love all others, then we are not following the Word of God. You need to read Luke, chapter 4. It says it all. Stop trying to tell people what God is saying. They can open the Bible and read for themselves. You will be held accountable one day for your false preaching and may God have mercy on your soul.

  1. Before the crowd who always comes in to point out how intolerant and un-Christian you’re being by pointing out the lunacy and convoluted logic of far right evangelicals for Drumpf, I wanted to jump right in here to say THANK YOU for calling these people out. We should never EVER tolerate the intolerable and use tolerance as an excuse, nor should we EVER allow anyone to try to shame us for our intolerance of what is wrong and hateful when what we are doing is calling out that which they should be ashamed of.

    It is not wrong to hate Hate.

    Thank you for your continued vigilance.

    • True. It is kind of like the criminal caught red handed in the bank vault. When the cops arrest him, he complains about how the cops are discriminating against him—how they are intolerant toward members of the criminal community.

    • All authority comes from God. Unfortunately this articles fails to point out what God did on behalf of all mankind. What we celebrate tomorrow is the greatest gift of all, He left heaven so we all could have access to heaven. Trump deserves prayers and we are commanded to pray for all those in leadership, yes, that means Donald Trump.

  2. Daniel 2:21…….. first off i voted off the ticket for ben carson for president a REAL african american. Do i like trump? Not really but he is much better than the dems satanic candidate. When a party “wholey” sanctions abortion, affirms gay marriage, supports theft in the form of entitlements, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum that said party becomes a unholy stench in the eyes of God. You probably dont want to hear this but you need a HEAVY dose of john mac arthur………….

    • I would rather have a large does of Jesus than MacArthur any day.

      As the story goes in Daniel, “As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.”

      The statue is a metaphor of a scary goliath which seems to have wealth and beauty and which accomplished it’s supremacy through oppression and compromise. It has power at the top but the power is false because it has a weak foundation. The stone made without hands is a metaphor of Jesus who topples the goliath at the ground level were everyday people reside—the grass roots—where Jesus walked and slept and shared meals—to show God is kind, compassionate and understands— to bring the arrogant mocking goliath down—to humble the thing and to put it in it’s place.

      Those who worship the false idol and think God has given it power are unfortunately wrong and can turn away from it, at any time. Don’t be fooled in to thinking God has any investment in the creation of oppressive nations or arrogant leaders. These are the things he wants us to turn away from— and not participate in.

        • Jesus did not put yrump in office. Humans did. I wonder how they can sleep knowing how he is to other races etc.people put yrump in office not God.

      • I put MacArthur and and his assassination of God’s character via his twisted view of Calvinism on the same evil level as Drumpf. Evangelicals, by and large, showed the world that they don’t worship Jesus Christ but at the altar of Republicanism by making it abundantly clear that they will proudly vote for ANYONE who has that magic “R” by their name 🙁

        • No way can I ever vote or support someone that is for killing ! And that is what abortion is! Praying God will forgive us for killing sooooo many innocent human beings! And am praying God will be with our new President-to-be!

          • But Dems want to feed the worlds poor to keep them from dying. Trump doesn’t. Won’t that kill people – The answer is yes. People still die of hunger in 2017. So then by your logic. Abortion is wrong, but starving people is right? I wonder have you even thought your stance through?

            • There’s a big difference between realizing someone is dying because of something you can’t do for them (if not because of their false religion that forbids them from eating the food God gave them) and actively killing someone who is inconveniencing your life. We can’t even touch every person who is starving in the world, much less feed them all, but we can feed the ones in front of us! And, if we can punish under law someone who destroys an eagle’s egg, we can certainly punish under law (if we change the law) someone who actively kills a human being in the womb!

    • Brian; Donald Trump supported abortion until he had to not support it to deceive the people to vote for him, Donald Trump openly affirmed gay rights and same sex marriage during his campaign, and since his win on national TV, Donald Trump Uses entitlements to steal from everyone he comes in contact with. As far as your bible verse goes, yes, God does remove and raise up kings. Not only did he raise up kings such as David, and Solomon who were righteous before him, he also raised up kings such as the Phar who refused to let Israel go, and many other kings who ruled with evil against Gods people. Just because God raised someone does not make them good, or mean you should give them your support. God also raised up Judas, and will raise up the Anti-Christ in his time. do you support Judas and his act? Will you give the Anti-Christ your full support and loyalty? Think before you quote the bible or credit God with men’s actions.

      • MacArthur is a Calvinist? Thanks for the new info. That explains much. In my experience, the Fundie/Religious Right people who are die hard Calvinists are the “worst of the worst.” Rousas Rushdoony was a Calvinist:

        “Oh!!! Those Islamic nut jobs that blew up all those people with pressure cooker bombs at the Boston Marathon. God did it—not the terrorists. He preordained and elected it from the foundation of time.”

        The really great thing about Calvinism is that if you do any evil in your life—it is ultimately all God’s fault. I think this is why there are so many Calvinist nutjobs on the Religious Right. They can do or say any outlandish thing they like and deny their personal responsibility for it. Flip Wilson in reverse.

    • Brian Sharp, “christians” like you are why I will never darken the door of one of your churches ever again. My SSDI and Medicare are not “theft”. I paid for them…churches in America are so full of people like you, that one day God will write over the tops of their doors, “Ichabod”…”The glory has departed.” I probably won’t live to see it, since I have a disabling medical condition that nearly killed me 3 times in 11 months before I could get out of my mid-30s, and your kind have slashed the social safety net to ribbons, and want to take away what I paid into my entire working life, the first 9 years of it at a southern baptist megachurch….Cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will kill millions. Who would Jesus murder, starve or medically neglect to death?

    • You mean entitlements like the billions of dollars in tax breaks and subsidies that the GOPers give to the top 1% even as one in four children are hungry in America? You mean abortions that were made the law of the land in the 1975 republican Supreme Court case roe v Wade? That was just after the republican Supreme Court took prayer out of school! Up until Scalia died, twenty years too late to prevent crippling the middle class and women, up until he died the current Supreme Court was majority republican with multiple unused opportunities to overturn roe v Wade! You know the current Supreme Court that gave us same sex marriage- that was a republican Supreme Court too! Seems to me it’s the GOPers that are atheists ignorant racist misogynic hypocrite!

    • I recall a message that was scrawled on one of the bathroom stalls when I was in middle school in the 1960s. It was about our principal (Mr. Schaefer—now deceased). Whenever someone mentions John MacArthur to me, it reminds me of that graffiti. It read:

      “Mr. Schaefer sucks dehydrated donkey dicks.”

      If John MacArthur believes entitlement programs that help the poor, sick, and hungry are theft, then in my opinion, he has in effect denied the gospel of Jesus Christ by his own words.

    • Brian Sharpe, In your spare time, read Matthew 23rd chapter in it’s entirety. Matthew 7; 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

  3. Terrifying in their belief that this person will bring about the rebuilding of the Temple and in so doing, hasten the rapture, Armageddon and the Second Coming! A few end time pastor and Messianic’s are GLEEFUL about this! But never-mind about actually having to live through the hate and other atrocities that are possible with this new leader. They were worried about the New World Order as seen through the actions of Bush/Obama and Hillary, they are in for a whole other new world order that they are not anticipating and we will all suffer through. Yes, this is as good a place for Jesus to weep. I sure am

    • The American people in general will regret the election of Donald trump like no other President in American history. Criticisms of George W. Bush were just simple politics as usual—-like the criticism of Jimmy Carter. We have elected 44 reasonable, sensible, intelligent and committed people President of the United States (with the possible exception of Warren G. Harding). For 240 years, the American people have said, “It can never happen hear.” In my opinion, it finally has happened. The American people have just elected their first ever “Idiot-Madman-Monster” President of the United States. About 50 percent of Americans are not aware of that fact—just like they cannot point to Iowa on an unlabeled map of the United States. When January 20, 2017 comes, that 50 percent is going to come face-to-face with what the other 50 percent of Americans already knew. I just hope and pray that the Republican Congress has already laid secret plans to legally remove Trump from office and replace him with another Republican like Bob Corker. They will need those plans—sooner than even they think.

    • Not to mention the sheer arrogance of thinking any of their activities will “bring about” the end times. As far as I know, God and God alone decides when He will do what, and “no man knoweth the time.”

  4. Thank you! This fascism- this fanaticism has a religious base/core and it is christian. Does that mean all christians are bad? No. But it’s likely almost all fanatics in this country are christian. And we’re all going to have to own that. This is a religious war. And to ignore that fact will cost us. Because these christians want armageddon and they don’t care what ‘sinners’ get wiped out in the process. John- love you. Hate most christians. And anybody from any other religion who also thinks I have no right to exist.

    • Mr. Wilcox. It is not all Christians. This atrocity is the work of Christian fundamentalists, conservative evangelicals, and a few hair-brained conservative Catholic hotheads like Mel Gibson and that Donahue creep.

  5. God is the creator of all things on heaven and earth. Nothing happens without God. If we don’t realize this, we are not giving God the credit HE deserves.

  6. Thanks for this. The election and the support of christians for Trump has been devastating for my efforts at recovering from childhood trauma including sexual assault. Most overwhelmingly, I used to be an agnostic who desperately wanted to believe in a loving God. I want now, more than anything, to find a way to stop caring and stop wanting to believe. A god who would elevate a confessed serial committer of sexual assault to the presidency has no interest in my healing. I am actively reading all the atheist material I can find. I’m actually listening to a Sam Harris podcast as I sit waiting at the pharmacy. (A Christian friend emailed this link. ) Franklin Graham’s god isn’t morally superior to my abusers. I feel less desire to find a way to believe than I have in many years. I appreciate your saying this and just wanted you to know that you nailed it in my case.

    • Thanks for your thoughts Holly. Jesus and Christianity in general are not the source of your problems. Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals are. They have no real respect for women. If a man rapes you, they will say it is all your fault because God created you to be a temptress like Eve, that you must forgive your rapist totally and completely, and do penance by going to lunch with him to apologize to him for the rape—and if you are feeling really generous—let him hump you a few more times for Jesus because men are more important than women and God gave them insatiable sexual urges that are very near uncontrollable. Your role is to be submissive before men and God—and understand that this is JUST THE WAY THE WORLD IS.

      Please don’t throw Jesus away just because some of the people who claim to work for him are morons. Jesus is not the problem. The morons are the problem.

      • Jesus isn’t here, sir. There’s not a ton of historical evidence he ever was. The best evidence available is the millions of people who claim he has transformed their lives in some way. Examining the fruit of that transformation–what kind of people it turns them into–is the closest I’ll get to evidence. When the Christian leaders crow about their God electing this jackass and Christians votes for him in massive numbers, that tells me what I need to know. I wish it didn’t. I wish there were good reasons to believe in a invisible father who loves me and is sorry about what happened during the first fifteen years of my life. The evidence of the people who believe this is just really, really bad. These people voted in Trump in the name of their God. I NEED their God to be imaginary so I have a hope of healing from my past. The author of this post we’re all commenting on absolutely nailed it. Preachers crediting God for Trump is the best argument for atheism I’ve ever heard. It negates the available evidence that a good God exists quite swiftly.

        • I agree with you’ve said, Holly. I went to oldest baptist university in the United States for undergrad – Baylor University. I wasn’t particularly religious before, and after my experience at Baylor, I became decidedly atheist.

        • Well. Okay Holly. I had a really lousy childhood too—but probably not nearly as bad as yours. I gladly affirm with you how bad it was. Much love to you. If I can ever be of help, just let me know. I will be here at John P’s blog.

    • What policies? He didn’t give any concrete policies. I recall something about building a wall and locking her up, but neither are going to happen. Ban on all Muslims? He just said that becauae it sounded good to people lik you. He’s told us with his own mouth nothing he said is going to happen. Oh and that thing about repealing the ACA, that’s not going to happen either. And he said gay marriage is settled as the law of the land. And he cannot overturn roe v: wade – that’s not going anywhere either. Hate to be the bearer of bad news. I guess you voted to support his efforts to make himself and his buddies richer? Thanks for that!

    • It has always seemed strange to me that so many seem to think they do know what God says or wants. Even as a child
      I wondered what this was all about. Seemed like a trick to get more people on your side. A way t o be top dog. Thank goodness my parents were thinkers . I was told when you help others, when you take care of the sick and broken when you tell your truth about human love and love of this planet we call Earth, then you are doing the work of God and this comes from the whispers in your heart to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your god.

    • We voted for his policies. – Neo-nationalism is the new black for evangelicals. Their ignorance of actual policy positions is evident. Ask them to explain the long run vs. short run effects of the phillips curve in unemployment and their empty stares tell you how well they know about policies. But, yeah, they will tell you they know everything. Nonsense!

    • They did not come out in “droves”~ have you not heard that Hilary is ahead by 2.2+ million votes??? I am a Christian…..he was not a “tenable ” choice for me. But once again, fundamental Christians thinking that they have the only correct answer, for everyone.

          • It’s not our job to save souls Joe. There is only one Saviour

            But it is our job to follow the example of Jesus which means to feed, help heal and welcome strangers in the name of God. Our good works are much broader than soup kitchens or offering plate cheque drops. The church needs to be criticized for excluding people from their charitable acts.

      • Brain I saw nothing in Paul’s text that would or should upset anyone. If you are a Christian and voted for Trump I would really like to know on What Biblical passages you found your call to vote for him.??? I would also like to know where you find the people he has selected for cabinet posts ; show up in the Bible I don”t believe you can. If you find this blog so offensive why are you bothering to spend time here?

  7. You know this guys right in so many ways. Jesus Was never a republican nor was he a democrat. He claimed to be a King. Now I didn’t vote for Hillary nor did I want Trump. In this case the religious establishment is to be accused. Religion often sits behind its rules with no explanation given or showing any mercy to others in its own ranks. It drives people away and creates a division more than show Gods grace. Now this God does have rules or boundaries to knowing him. Just like you have for your friends. But just like you, He would rather you show Him the real you and not a fake representation of yourself. The real you. Complete with all the anger, sorrow, resentment that you have. This Jesus guy hung out with loan sharks, hookers, low lifes all the time, and not the priests an local politicians. So to assume Jesus or God as the bible says he is, was for Trump is a mistake. And any preacher, evangelical or not, is sorely mistaken.

  8. Dear John:

    Thank you for this.

    I was thinking last night that our friends today what the Orthodox Church was to Tzar Nicholas’ government on the eve of the October Revolution — an echo chamber.

    I would suggest two changes:

    1] Rather than saying that the case was being made for atheism, I would offer that current events demonstrate the shape of apostasy.

    2] Rather than ‘crediting’ God for Mr. Trump’s electoral win but popular vote loss, I would use the language of ‘blaming God.’

    • Dear Joe Catholic:

      Actually, Mr. Trump did lose the so-called ‘popular vote.’ However your observation that there is nothing to win or lose is entirely correct since your recent election presented neither principle nor content.

      The scandal-mongering and mutual accusations of criminality/corruption which are now extended by White House/DNC/Wall Street Journal/Washington Post allegations that Russia hack the vote all highlight the palpably undemocratic character of an election in which the real issue was deliberately concealed from the public: the direction of foreign policy after the Obama Administration debacles in Iraq and Syria.

      Senator McCain recently expressed the growing sense in the security establishment that the post WW II world system of relations [i.e., US dominance/hegemony] is collapsing. Republicans and Democrats conflict over tactics and methods, but agree on the need of increasing violence at home and abroad, up to and including world war, to defend the US global position against all challenges from the working class and economic competition abroad.

      Since with either party, we are on the road to war and revolution, you say very correctly that ‘there is nothing to win or lose.’

      What that DOESN’T explain is why you [presumably] voted.

    • The fact that I was blocked by this man on all his social media.platforms and you’re still allowed to spew your nonsense on this blog is part of the reason why I’m not even sure this guy is legit. Maybe it’s because you’re white and all you guys stick together in the end.

  9. this is perhaps a random question, more than a comment, but am not sure where on this site to ask… I have not received emails alerting me to the last several blog posts. Do I need to re-subscribe? thanks to anyone who knows the answer here!!

  10. For preachers whose God is their belly… they aren’t wasting their platform, failing they’re calling and/or
    “squandering an audience with millions of people by giving God credit for a madman’s success.”
    For those who are in agreement with hell and death:
    “Crediting Donald Trump’s win to “God” is the best conceivable argument for someone… in total denial of reality because they’ve been brainwashed!!

    • Can you POSSIBLY be this naive? The election of Trump guarantees that abortion will NEVER end in America. For over 40 years, preachers have run the Republican GOTV efforts all on this one issue. You set the bar so low–ALL he had to do was pay lip service to the notion of being pro-life, and you rushed to vote him in. For the very low price of lip service, Christians voted in a thrice-married man who isn’t just a sexual libertine with a lifestyle destructive to marriage, his books OPENLY boast that other men’s wives are not safe with him in the room. He isn’t just in favor of the sin of gambling, he OWNS casinos. He isn’t just in favor of pornography, he has appeared in porn films and in Playboy. He doesn’t just ignore all Scripture on doing to the least of these, he boasts about having committed sexual assault over and over. Abortion ? Can you even imagine how many abortions a man who boasts of bedding other men’s wives has PAID FOR? You proved that there is LITERALLY NO ONE too scum-sucking for Christians to refuse to rush to vote them in as long as they pay lip service to ending abortion. Sir, you ensured that the Republican party will act to end abortion the day after the American Dental Association acts to ban sugar. Congratulations.

      • So, you believe his promises about conservative justices but you doubt his word when he said that he has NOT asked God to forgive him and has NOT repented, something he was quite explicit about. So you believe what he says when it gives you a Christian justification to vote the way you want and you ignore what he says when what he says undercuts that justification. Got it. Yeah, you’re the exact kind of useful idiot the Republican power brokers rub their palms together and grin about. A porn-loving, porn-movie-appearing, casino-owning, serial-womanizing, sexually-assaulting, serial-adulterer, explicit refuser to repent gets the Christian vote just by paying lip service to abortion. They literally can NOT take action to end abortion, now or ever, because they would lose their #1 way of getting people to vote for them. When abortions are still happening ten years from today, you can look in the mirror and thank your irresponsible, craven refusal to demand even a shred of Christian character before voting for someone as the reason for it.

        • If you live in America…We have a flag…We have a president…Support that or leave…A house divided will fall…We must be united…Fighting against each other doesn’t ever make us strong…United we stand..Divided we fall

      • And if the Republican party playing this bait and switch for 43 years — never really trying to stop abortion, even when it held 35-plus governorships, 7 of the 9 supreme court seats, the white house, and both houses of Congress simultaneously — didn’t make you feel betrayed and make you realize you were being played, WHY in God’s name would an amoral man who profits financially from literally every vice known to Christendom not taking that action suddenly do it? You are kidding yourself or lying to yourself, I’m not sure which.

          • The most ironic and mind-bogglingly stupid thing of all is that when (WHEN, not IF) Trump is yet another Republican President who does nothing about abortion, only the top 1% (at best) of Republicans will even notice. And if they do manage to feel (properly) betrayed, the best answer we who saw it coming can give them will be to link to one of the nine gazillion videos of Trump telling that snake story. He NEVER pretended to be trustworthy. He had to settle a fraud suit for $25 million before taking office. He had a thirty year track record of scamming people. He boasted of bedding other men’s wives. Then on the campaign trail he warned them over and over again that snakes don’t change their nature because you trust them. That this was a political power grab to make him richer and nothing more has been so jaw-droppingly obvious that it makes OJ Simpson’s guilt, the color of the sky, and the cuteness of puppies all look like mysteries by comparison. It wouldn’t work as fiction. Any editor would send this back to a novelist with, “Jeez, readers aren’t stupid. The snake thing is such obvious telegraphing. Give the reader some credit for being more intelligent than a box of hair.” And yet….here we are.

      • Dear Alexis:

        For what it’s worth — the ‘GOP/evangelical’ connection is a political operation with no meaningful theological basis. This political attack has thoroughly secularized the evangelical ‘church’ so that it conforms more and more to the Biblical imagery of Babylon depicted in the apocalypse of Jesus Christ as the false prophet.

    • You are fixated on the unborn. Too bad the repubs don’t give a damn as soon as the umbilical cord is cut. They always give to the rich and take from the poor. Health and housing , cut those funds. Send our citizens to be killed on a damn hoax war. Maybe God is testing you to see if you care for life already here. If so Christians are capital F Failing.
      I don’t believe God appointed such an awful person. Human free will did. You bought the lies and now we’ll all pay.

      • I am poor. I’m supporting 2 people on $11,600/yr, without any public assistance except for my health insurance and even that is not free; I thankfully pay a token amount each month for that too. If I didn’t, the state would be able to take my paid-for house from my children the moment I’m dead, even though it’s only worth about $25,000, which they’ll have to sell to pay to bury me as I have no life insurance or savings. THIS is how they keep the poor, poor generation after generation. The moment we have anything, they take it.
        I’m so sick of this “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” BS I could (and sometimes do) scream. IF one is lucky enough to have boots, the moment one starts to rise, they try to cut the damned straps, if they can’t steal the boots all together. Take your sanctimonious, hateful BS and shove it.

        • And who runs “the state”? VP-elect Pence in my case. And who runs the “the state” in general? The rich, in case you have blinders on. Even Trump admitted this and campaigned on it. You say I shouldn’t lash out at you, but you support those policies quite publicly, so I’m free to criticize you for doing so. You claim to have compassion “I’m sorry for your problems”, but you want to gut any program that might help me. That is hypocrisy. You might not be the one to stomp on me while I’m down, but you’ll either walk on by or stop to watch when others do. That is not what Jesus taught. Charles is right, you’re a troll and I’m done with you. Jesus taught me not to cast pearls before swine.

          • He lives by the proverb, ” I am not my brother’s keeper”

            A. Nonymous I can totally understand. I have been poor all my life and now under 15years away from retirement age. I am facing little retirement income to show for all my hard work. I see myself working until the day I die. And I have worked hard to provide for my family. Not much to show for it. Not much loyalty from my employers whose profits are up this year because they makes cuts.

            Productivity is the labour force not the CEO.

            I don’t have anything to look forward too and I am worried about my health failing. What will happen to me and others like me? There is so much uncertainty. At least I have family that cares but what about those who don’t?

            Capitalism is all about the strong getting what they want and the weak getting barley enough for what they need after all their hard work.

            They way people like Joe talk you would think our labour is worth nothing. This is what rich capitalists don’t understand. The working population slaves for them and they have no conscience towards our well being because another labourer can take my place. Capitalism has a dark side… an evil underbelly of greed and exploitation of people.

            An honest wage for an honest days work?

            The sick and the ill of our society who cannot work where do they fit? I am thinking more about them than I ever did because I know I will be joining their ranks when I can no longer work. I have been strong all my life and worked an honest days wage, but what do I have to show for it?

            People like Joe would have us suffer while he has two cars, two computers and luxury. Definitely the rich man who walks by Lazarus. No Joe didn’t cause any of this, he says.

            ….self justification is the mother of denial.

            • There is a poor working class who are not being paid what they are worth in comparison to the profits reaped off their backs by millionaires/billionaires.

              The labourer is the one who who works and is productive. The extra wealth they generate (despite any measly bonus) goes to the corporation not to the those who work the front lines. One of the worst crimes in my opinion is labor crime.

              As well the poor who have little extra get taxed more than the wealthy who have excess wealth.

              It may be convenient BS to you but it’s an absurd truth to me.

            • my, how easily you insult every hard working citizen who spends four to six months working just to pay state and federal taxes.

              You want more entitlements? By all means, move to Cuba or Venezuela and enjoy a socialist economy….

              Amazing, what makes you think the world owes you anything….oh, I forgot….your special and entitled to the fruits of other peoples labor outside of charity.

              Basically, you are thief hiding behind the power of government to tax and spend with impunity.

              Your lack of self respect and personal responsibility serves only to cheapen the generosity and charity required through Christian tidings and yes, forcibly taken by corrupt politicians because you think all should suffer as you.

              • Your words, put this way cruelly to a working poor man like my father, are an excellent argument for the existence of Hell so God will have somewhere appropriate to store people like you. If you had said those words to Jesus, he would have slugged you right on the spot.

          • Hi A. Nonymous. Charles here. I grew up very poor in a “poor white trash ghetto.” I am personally familiar with all your sufferings—been there—done all that. Relatively speaking, I have also been a rich man with a huge mansion and lots of money.

            Something in our country is broken. This is no longer the America I grew up in. Some of the problem is the fact that our government is dysfunctional. Some of the problem is that the rich have been allowed to become too rich (the one percent)—and they do not care about anyone else but themselves. Part of the problem is that poor people get depressed by their conditions, buy into hopelessness, and cease trying to do what they can to become better off economically.

            At one time I would have told you that the key to success is better education—-but millions of college graduates can no longer find jobs. At one time I thought I had all the answers—but since the crash of 2008—I do not know anything except America is badly broken—and with Trump in power it is going to become even more broken.

            I think all we can do now is cling to Jesus and see what happens. If you ever need someone to talk to, I am here.

            • Thank you Charles. I have posted as A, Nonymous because I was revealing such personal information but I am a regular reader and occasional poster here and your compassion shines through your anger at the harm that fundies/evangelicals have wrought. I have watched my family go from middle/upper-middle class to poor as big corporations have destroyed small businesses, only to close and leave communities decimated. The cost of goods for a small retailer can be higher than the same product bought retail from Walmart. This country is broken and in spite of my experience, I’m still here fighting to fix it and I’m going to fight even harder now that Trump is headed to the White House with all his Goldman-Sachs buddies. What is he doing is wrong and decidedly un-American, at least the America I was taught we were. I’m glad you’re here to fight with me.

              • Hi A. Nonymous. It sounds as if you owned/ran a small retail operation at one time. Good for you. I still love small businesses and prefer to work at them instead of the big businesses. In the town where I live, many business spaces are empty. My son and I went out to buy some fire logs at Ingles yesterday. It is the only store still open in a long strip mall. My son gazed down all the empty stores, looked up at me and said: “This place looks really deserted and so sad.” I said, “Yep. It looks like Atlantic City, New Jersey.” Then I pointed to the totally empty strip mall across the highway from where we were standing.

                Some American cities like NYC are still vibrant. However, the vibrant small town America I grew up in during the 1950s and 1960s is dying and may no longer exist soon.

                I think this is what happens when people cease to love each other. In the 1980s, Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical writers set themselves on a course to pump all the LOVE out of American Christianity. They succeeded—and all we have left are the ashes of better times.

                Thank you for being my brother, I am yours too. We shall fight together to change this—or die trying. Some things in this world are still worth trying and dying.

        • Go look up a graph on GDP versus wages since WWII. You will notice that wages rose with GDP. The two were parallel until about the mid 1970’s when wages started to stagnate relative to GDP. From about 1980 until the last couple of years wages were flat as GDP skyrocketed. Working people didn’t share in this rise in GDP (wealth) as they did before the mid 1970’s. So where did the wealth go ? In 1973 minimum wage was $1.60/hr. Plug that in an online CPI inflation calculator and you will find that the minimum wage should be over $8/hour just to break even.
          Now you are telling me that the rich didn’t get all the goodies but rather the government did when taxes are at historic lows for the rich ? The top income tax rate from the late 1940’s was at about 90% on a half of a million dollars income.
          Kennedy knocked it down to 70% and it stayed there until Reagan knocked it down to 50% and paid for the difference with deficits which continues to this day. Bush I knocked it down to 28% but the budget bled red and, assuming responsibility, raised it to about 35% or so. Clinton raised it to 39.5% and the budget actually go balanced but then Bush II dropped the top rate back down (and Obama continued) and ran deficits again which continue to this day. And who benefited from the bailouts of 2008-9 ? What about the billions for Savings and Loan bailouts during Bush I administration. Yeah, the poor don’t have anything because the state takes it all from them. Right……….
          The only reason many poor have anything is because of the state.

      • Dear Jayne:

        Thank-you for identifying the import of much ‘pro-life’ politics — cannon fodder for discretionary, for-profit wars, and exploitable, [dirt] cheap labor at home.

        If God has any partisan interest in this sordid affair [which I doubt], the intention may be to use sTrumpet to bring down the state. By this, I mean the collapse of the US world-imperial ‘system.’

        At any rate, you nailed the real concern. Thanks.

      • Dear Brian:

        The United States is its own religion. It is a blasphemous and whorish religion to be sure. But it is none the less — religion. This is proclaimed every time any candidate of any stripe claims or proclaims redemptive import for their partizan agenda.

        Lest there be any ambiguity, yes. I am calling the state an idolatrous religion. And it is a whore. This language is used because it is found in the apocalypse of Jesus Christ. No offense to actual sex workers is intended.

    • And tomorrow the electoral college will submit their vote.
      Trump will be declared the next elected POTUS…and with that all the snowflakes here will have a ready made excuse for every ill – imagined or real….”it’s Trump’s fault”.

      The resident benedictine monk along with the roving anti-fundie and of course the butt snuggler will continue with their gnashing of teeth littered with inept generalizations, lame rationalizations and accusations.

      No surprise, John P is not leaving the country. Of course neither are the moronic celebrities who vowed to do so.
      Yup, it was all a hoax….

      God does in fact have a sense of humor…

    • Listen up jerk face. You guys claim that all Democrats hate God. So how could they have credited the God they do not believe in for getting Obama elected? Yep. back to the drawing board for you!!!

  11. Hi John,

    While I’d agree that crediting the ridiculousness that was this election to the positive or praiseworthy work of God, I’d disagree about His crying about it. Come on now. God knows what’s going to happen before we ourselves do. To think that the results of the election were somehow a surprise to Him is at the least, silly, if not blasphemous.

    • As a person who ascribes to the Open View–I don’t believe God knows what is going to happen…I believe the future is full of possibilities–we are His hands and feet. And yes He weeps over what His kids are doing to the world He created.

      • Interesting, Kevin. I’d be curious to know if you’re a Christian and believe in the Second Coming. That is foretold. Why would Trump’s winning the election not be?

          • No. I only post as Charles—except for when my automatic information expires without my noticing, which makes a rare post show up as anonymous—and one time when I showed Gloriamarie how easy it is for Joe Catholic to post his bullshit under multiple names. So no. Any “Anonymous” you see in this long thread is not me. If you see anyone else named Charles with a another icon next to it that IS NOT a green quilt icon containing four diamonds, it is someone masquerading as me—or another Charles.

        • No. The actual rebuilding of the temple that Jesus spoke of in the New Testament was the rebuilding of his physical body. It was metaphorical. The tearing down of his body on the cross was the tearing down of the temple. The resurrection of his body was the rebuilding of the temple (where God’s spirit abides) in three days.

          The actual Temple in Jerusalem was torn down by the Romans in the Judaic zealot insurrection that occurred in 70 A.D. The Romans put down the insurrection brutally; tore the entire temple down except for some of its foundation rocks (known today as The Wailing Wall), deported permanently every Jew they could find to the four winds. Gave Jerusalem a new, nonJewish name—and that was that. The Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals believe that the 1949 re-establishment of Israel after 2000 years is a Biblical sign of the so-called end times. They also believe that those end times cannot occur until Jerusalem becomes the capitol city of Israel and the physical temple is rebuilt on the temple mount in Jerusalem, which is now the location of a world famous Islamic shrine. This is why the fundies are so “horny” for Trump. They think he is going to make Jerusalem the Capitol of Israel through his influence, encourage the Jews to tear down the current famous Islamic shrine on the temple mount, and rebuild the Jewish temple on that site. They- fundies believe fundie positive effort toward making a series of tragic end times dominoes to fall in proper sequence will—and this is a quote…”force the hand of God” to intervene in human affairs, Rapture the fundies out of here, and bring the current universe to an end. The fundie whackos who believe in this bullshit seek to “touch off” a worldwide conflagration that will end in the horrible deaths of billions of people (including nonfundie Christians), and they earnestly believe their man Trump has the power to make it all happen on their behalf because they—and they alone—of all the people on Earth are God’s and Donald Trump’s little darlings—and “F” every other man, woman, child, and panda bear on God’s green Earth—and “F” the earth God created as his garden too.

          Personally, I no longer subscribe to this fundie end times bullshit. Rather, I subscribe to what Jesus personally said in his own words. The Jewish rejection of Jesus was the last straw for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit under the Old Covenant with Israel. Jesus ended the Old Covenant, walked out on the Jews as a GROUP (probably forever), and left their house desolate. This is why the Jews have never been free from persecution and have never been at peace for 2000 years. As a corporate group that still clings to the Old Covenant (which is now gone), they are essentially living under a curse. God walked out on them as a group—and He is still out.

          Nonetheless, God still loves Jews individually, and individually they are still welcome to come to Jesus and be saved and loved forever just like everyone else under the New Covenant that Jesus established.

          Why does the current re-established Israel exist? It is probably a fluke of human will and history—and most likely it will not last because, as Jesus said, “…their house is left unto them desolate.” I suspect that the Jewish state will again cease to exit within the next 100 years—probably as a result of Islamic conquest after the Iranians and other Middle East states develop nuclear weapons. The only reason Israel exists now is because western nations like the United States supported Israel. Why? They wished, just like Hitler did, that their own Jews would somehow go away and never come back–and Israel was a chance to make that happen for all the western anti-Jewish bigots like the ones in the small Tennessee town where I grew up.

          The “Left Behind Series” of books. Pure bullshit. You will not ever see any of this happen in our future because it already has happened. It was not about the end of the world. It was about the apocalyptic end of God’s Old Covenant with the Jewish people, the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., the diaspora of the Jewish people, and God walking out on them forever “corporately.” Just as Jesus and the Apostle Paul said in the Bible, it all happened in that ONE GENERATION of Jews living between about 32 A.D. and maybe a a little beyond 100 A.D. The book of revelations prophecies have all been fulfilled and are done.

          Where does that leave us who have been alive for the past 1900 years. God probably has some other plans for us as part of his New Covenant.

          Well, this is how I feel about the subject now—based on things I have heard, read, and studied. Because this subject is so weird and murky by its very nature, I am subject to changing my opinions on this subject down the road.

          • I share your perspective. Like you, I am not sure what will become of the Jewish state. Yet, I am reminded that I am called to pray for the house of Israel.
            I see no reason to curse or reject Israel as a state or the Jewish people as human beings.
            Having said that, I have tried to fathom the lingering and very real real hate for Israel and the Jewish people. While I understand the historical reasons – the hatred here (by some) and abroad is palpable.
            Again, I agree – the end times perspective as found and often promoted with the fundamentalist’s perspective is BS.
            However, I need to think about your statement; “the book of revelations prophecies have all been fulfilled and are done.” I not sure about this one, at least with any certainty.
            Again, I am reminded….no one knows the day or the hour.
            Last and like you – I remain open and willing to change my mind.

    • I watched this clip and seeing the faces of Trump and Putin against the back drop of Israel and then being hailed by Tom Horn as those who will be rebuilding the temple in Israel is abominable to me.

    • Trump is the Messiah? As if any God would use such a hypocritical, narcissistic, adulterous, habitual liar living in a golden palace to be or usher in the second coming.
      1. You have not studied the bible, but been spoon fed from someone else’s view. Con men preach in many pulpits.
      2. Churches should be taxed because once politics is preached it can take away the ridiculous tax free status.
      3. You people oppose pot, an actual healing plant, because the govt decided? Didn’t God make it, which makes it a good thing? Legalization would help thousands of people, and its not dangerous. The same can’t be said about religion.

      • I am not sure what Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals think about medical marijuana. Knowing how they think, I would expect them to be opposed to it because they think it is just a cover for using marijuana to get high. Fundies are opposed to all mood altering drugs because:

        1) MethylethylJesus is the only drug allowed to alter one’s mood in the fundie realm. He is the drug that kills all problems instantly—on contact.

        2) They wrongly assume that anyone who uses a mood altering substance does so to achieve a maximum drunk level of mood alteration. Idiots.

        3) Mental illness is caused exclusively by ones own sins, so medication is never the answer. Only Jesus can cure mental illness.

        4) Fundies have a historical policy of trying to stamp out happy moods wherever they find them. If they have to be miserable swimming in their legalistic ponds, then everyone else needs to be made just as unhappy and miserable as they are.

        5) No. I do not use illegal drugs of any kind and rarely use alcohol—except for a dash of Jack Daniels in my egg nog at Christmas. Who invented Jack Daniels Old No. 7 Black. God did. Just ask Frank Sinatra. No. It is not bourbon.

    • Nah!!! The “Forerunner” will be a very talkative fellow named John the Blabtist. He’s the pastor down at Possum Holler Baptist Church. Hve you ever heard a possum holler?

  12. I love how “true” Christians are against their fellow man. Hating gay people, immigrants, and the poor is what they are really all about. “Loving your neighbor as yourself,” when said neighbor is a despised enemy, is completely impossible for these people. Never mind all the terrible sins of many, including Trump, because those poor, disabled, gay and immigrants are really the ones God hates. Glad I’m not a Christian anymore.

    • They hate these people because their worldview no longer sees them as human beings—not really. Everyone outside the fundie circle is seen as a “sinner” and “an enemy of God.” When you can objectify people as something less than human, it becomes easier to hate them and take action to punish them.

  13. I don’t understand how a man of faith cannot see the hand of God in this election. God heard and answered his children’s prayers to save our country from continuing in the direction of a socialist, and communist country, and taking God and all Christianity out of our nation. We are truly living in the last days, scripture is being for told before our very eyes. FYI God is being glorified by Christians for answered prayer, something God demands of his people.

    • You are delusional lady. Donald Trump is evil, and he is going to do evil. In the Bible, Jesus makes it clear that the evil person will inevitably produce evil fruit. Get your fruit basket ready—and get ready to repent if you voted for Trump. You will recognize what you have done soon enough—unless you are so blinded by evil that you are no longer able to see it.

        • Exactly…Charles is the epitome of every negative thing he thinks he sees in those whom he labels “fundamentalists”. I just wish he would acknowledge that left-wing fundamentalism exists and that it is as ugly as what he considers (right-wing) fundamentalism to be.

          • I don’t think so, human beings are not mature enough to successfully apply the concepts of liberal and conservative fundamentals.

            They work well in concert.

            There is a time to conserve and a time to be generous.

            • Anony. All I am doing is calling them out on their fundie bullshit. Just imagine that you see a person about to murder someone on a sidewalk, and you intervene to stop it. Then the murderer accuses you of being an anti-murder bigot This is the game Bwian and Gray Anonymous (a.k.a Joe Catholic) are playing here.

              • I know, Charles, those guys are not true conservatives in my opinion because they despise the lower classes and the denigrate the value of everyday people including immigrants and those at risk and in need.

                Perhaps we should be calling them out on falsely representing what conservatism is.

                Conservatism is the balance to radical social change. Conservatism is the economic policy that knows it is smart to save while spending. (In fact Obama is a fiscal conservative)

                Traditional values has been smeared by faux-conservatism.

                There needs to be a counter to the good bleeding heart liberal and that is the good staunch conservative.

  14. In my personal opinion, you either believe God is omnipotent, or you don’t. If you believe He is all powerful, then you have no choice but to accept that whoever won the election did so only because He permitted it to happen. He could have stopped it if He so chose, but didn’t. The author acts as if God is some powerless bystander, horrified because Her Holiness, St. Hillary, couldn’t hold on to Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, or any of the other states that twice voted for an extremely liberal African American, but are now somehow seething with racial hatred and bigotry. It’s easier to believe that than it is to accept that the human mind is incapable of understanding God, or anything he does (or that your candidate was so terrible, and her campaign so completely incompetent, she actually lost to Donald Trump). In this case, barring something unforeseen, God put Mr. Trump in the White House. Like a great many things, I don’t understand to what end, but I’m sure He does.

    • As an adherent to the Open View–I believe God is indeed sovereign AND almighty–I don’t however believe He has exhaustive lnowledge of the future. The future is made up of possibilities (which indeed He knows). Check out the works of Greg Boyd, John Sanders, and my favorite Thomas Oord–it makes a lot of sense to me. Peace–

  15. I put my Faith in God…..no matter what he is in charge. I would dare say that he would be saddened by the hate and anger spewing from the results of this election…but being that I do not know or pretend to know what God is thinking, I am not sure what he feels about how people are acting. I choose to believe that he would not like the hate, and name calling and blaming…I choose to believe he would not like the constant judging of those who voted Trump, as I believe God is the only one who can and should judge us, and he is the only one we have to answer to for our sins. I have angrily written in on this blog several times, due to the constant attacking of the Blog host towards ALL White Christian Republicans. I am no longer angry, I am sad that he has allowed himself to become so judgemental towards those who disagree with his side of politics, I am sad that instead of spreading the word of God, he is spreading hate and anger…I am not sure at the end of the day who it is helping…other than the constant fighting going on on this blog. I think that eveyone is entiteled to their own opinions, not eveyone is always going to agree with each other…BUT no one knows who is right and who is wrong. We all want to believe that our choices and beliefs are the right ones, that is human nature, but there is always a chance that someone else may be right. I think fighting over who is right and who is wrong solves nothing, do you ever really change anyones mind in doing so?? If anything reading the angry rants and the awful accusations and judgements against those who disagree with the Liberal Left..makes me glad I am not part of such an angry belief system. I am not saying the left is wrong and the right is right, but there are those on the left right now who are becoming slightly unhindged…and yes there are those on the right that could be accused of the same behavior…but I know none of them. I also agree with the post above mine, God is in charge….I was not at all thrilled when Obama won 2 times, and my family and I have had a hard 8 years since he has been in office…BUT my husband and my family and I moved on. We Prayed and accepted the results, because while we may not have understood why Obama won….we accepted it as God’s will. I cannot for the life of me imagine posting all over facebook about the people that voted for him, and blaming them and accusing them of being such awful human beings…because at the end of the day you either care about people or you don’t. If you care you do not go out of your way to post such hurtful, hateful, judgemental comments for all to see not caring who you may be hurting, or who you may be accusing of such awful things.

  16. Can those of you that voted for Trump for no other reason than you hope that he’ll be able to put in place a Supreme Court Justice who will overturn Roe v. Wade (this is not a guaranteed thing, right?) answer a question that just really eludes me. Why is it that you are willing to throw caution to the wind with Trump, who even you would have to admit is a lose cannon, when there are other clear policies you could fight for that actually have been proven to reduce the number of abortions? I really don’t get it, and I get even less that this is the “Christian” thing to do.

    • Hi Michelle, I actually do not believe that Roe V. Wade will ever be overturned, not too mention that The President actually has little to do with this decision, it goes to The Supreme Court…which yes if a Republican gets in they tend to put in Conservatives who some are totally against abortion in any means even with that I do not see where Roe V. Wade will ever be overturned no matter who is in The Supreme Court. I believe that there are certian circumstances where abortion is unfortunate, but is the only choice. I take all matters into consideration when voting for a President not just abortion…I am a Moderate Republican, however I will vote for either Democrat or Republican depending on which Candidate I favor. I appreciate your question, and that you are not attacking…I had no easy decision this Election, My Husband and I went back and forth the entire time. Politically we lean to the right…so we were more looking at The Republican candidates…as we have not been happy with Obama…(I am not looking to get attacked over this, it is just not been a great 8 years for my husband and I, and our family…) Obama may or may not be to blame for that, but I think in any Election year if your are not doing well or happy with a current situation you generally vote to change it. That being said, and again not looking to be attacked…My husband and I could not bring ourselves to vote for Hillary…and voting 3rd Party or not voting at all is just not something we felt comfortable doing. There were many things about both Hillary and Trump that bothered my husband and I, and we believe that neither was ideal or without fault and baggage. I vote for a President on their policies, not by what my Religion is or what I think theirs is. I feel that most politicians that run for office, will say what the people want hear to get the votes, and alot of them do not follow through. Both the republicans and the democrats have been very dissapointing for a long time…politicians in general have been dissapointing. Alot of Trumps appeal to my husband and myself is that he is not a politician…I would be stupid to try and fight the point that he did or said nothing wrong, so I will not do that, I also believe that Hillary did and said alot of wrong things too. I know that the media makes the candidates look horrible depending on which media you prefer…the left leaning media bashes Trump and the right leaning media bashes Hillary…so I try very hard to do my research on all news sources, and hopefully get maybe somewhat of the truth on the candidates, as I have come to feel that the media is more concerned with ratings than truth. So I tend to take everything with a grain of salt from them. For me and my husband our decesion was based on our situation for the past 8 years, and not continuing more of the same, and maybe giving someone who is not a Washington politician a chance. We felt that there was alot of crap to overlook with both candidates, so it to us was not a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils as I have heard some say that voted for Trump. I think my best answer would be that we voted for policies that we believe in…(Republican) and no we are not happy that people think their rights are going to be taken away, we would never vote for something like that. I know that alot of democrats feel republicans do not care about anyone, and I cannot change their minds on that, but I as a republican can say that I am nothing like that. I think the republicans and democrats in Washington and all over have for so long now flat out refused to work together, and that is alot of the problem. As far as those saying that it is The Christian thing to do, I am not sure where I stand with that reasoning, as I feel it is your right as a US citizen to vote, and a duty to your country. Have I liked everything that Trump has said and done while campaiging?? No just as I did not like everything Hillary said or did during and before Campainging. The only part of abortion that entered into my husband and mines vote, was the option that Hillary wanted to allow late term abortion, and that is something that we disagree with…other than that our decesion had nothing to do with abortion, and was not 100% based on it. I know several people that voted Hillary soley for her policies on abortion and gay marriage, I do not vote for those policies as my only reason for voting, I look ast the entire picture. I know that people are scared that those two things will be overturned, and I will probably get attacked for saying this, but I just do not see that happening…I believe our Nation has larger problems to worry about, and there is no sense in taking away the rights of Gay Marriage, or Abortion, I am not sure in reversing these how that would be any help to anything I also happen to have 2 people in my life that are like family to me, they are gay and they are married, I would not want that taken away from them or any gays that are married, they should have that right if they want it, it really has nothing to do with me. So no the 2 reasons that you cited above did not factor my vote and were a very small piece of my decesion. I voted against more of the same…and getting another same old same old Washington politician in office…I my opinion I felt both candidates were loose cannons, (In much different ways) and I felt that no matter which one you voted for there was no baggage less, crap toting option. I think for alot of people, (at least those that I personally know) the appeal for Trump was that he is not a politician…I think people are so sick of politics as usual (again I can not speak for everyone, only myself and those that I personally know) So in the end my decision came down to that, and policy, and not continuing more of the same as the past 8 years. My Prayer is that Trump will be a President for ALL people.

      • John Pavlovitz. This is Joe Catholic. For God sakes man. Can you please do something to keep Joe Catholic from posting with multiple names? All you have to do is identify his IP addresses and block him from posting under any other name except “Joe Catholic.”

        His whole purpose here is to disrupt the operation of your blogspot in any way he can, and he is using every trick in the book to do it.

          • Sometimes people write under pseudonyms or as anonymous, which in my opinion is their right. However, what is the motive? That would be my question. I have written as anonymous to protect my family and friends if they should read this blog.

            I know a published writer personally who uses a pseudonym because she thinks her name is too generic or common.

            Joe Hill, the son of Stephen King writes under a pseudonym because he wanted to establish his career in writing independently. Many actors and writers have done this.

            So, is there a wrong motive in this case? Maybe Joe was Benny/benny/Joe blow/anonymous/or countless others but what is the motive? Is there real harm being done here?

            • Yes. He hates John Pavlovitz and his ministry—and wants to destroy it. One way to do that is to willfully disrupt this blogspot anyway he can. Just think of it as a form of malicious hacking. Think of it as three people in a room trying to have a real conversation and suddenly a guy steps into the middle of the living room floor and starts reciting the Declaration of Independence at the top of his lungs while the conversation is going on. That is what Joe Catholic and his many aliases are doing here.

              • Fair enough, I for one believe you. But i think you were Benny for awhile and then you changed your moniker to Joe Catholic and I saw your icon under another name at some point so you have been trying to fins the right fit for your pseudonnym I guess. We have all make the mistake with Anonymous eh?

                It’s all a distraction anyways.

                It’s funny how you think there are good Christians leading good lives. Does that mean you think there are bad christians living bad lives?

                • Joe, I don’t always appreciate your comments but I listen. It’s difficult to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who says the things Trump says. Even if he is a blustering loud mouth at worst, he has infused many people with fear and others with a deep distrust in his vision.

                  There may be some placating on the part of Trump for awhile but many people will not be letting their guard down no matter what concessions are made.

                  all my best

        • Sorry to dissapoint you Charles, but not only am I not Joe Catholic I am a female and my name is Lisa. So if John Pavlovitz checks my IP address will not match that of Joe Catholics….no tricks here just my feelings, as I would think would be ok to post since the rest of you do the same. Or is it only ok for me to post my feelings if they are the same as yours and the Blog hosts???

  17. If God chose Trump to be President, then He also chose Obama. He also chose Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong-Un and Vladimir Putin.

    God is responsible for Roe v Wade, and God is also reaponsible for nothing being done to overturn it over four decades despite countless promises. God hasn’t done a single thing to stop abortion, so apparently He’s OK with it.

  18. Man is in control far more than they give God credit for. If Donald Trump’s Electoral College victory is something from God, then God has hostility towards those who are not white, rich, and male. Too often, “God is in control” when man can do something about it is an abdication of responsibility. It is not a surrender to God, but to a higher ranking person.

    Donald Trump ran his campaign by targeting a specific group of people and stoking their fears and directing them against Muslims and Latinos. He also ran his campaign on myths (i.e. decimation of the US armed forces despite being powerful) and blank checks that he cannot cash (keeping manufacturing jobs and reviving the coal industry). When some white racist groups gave their endorsements, neither he nor his campaign rejected them. This gave racists a sense of validation.

    Evangelical Christianity is not about Jesus: It is a fusion of capitalism and nationalism that has a cross as decoration to make it look like it is Christian.

    • Dear Tim W:

      Donald Trump’s manufactured victory arises from the confluence of census information, gerrymandering [elections work SO much better when politicians can pick voters], vetting of any independent thought, owned candidates, slogans that divide, disorient and confuse, choreographed campaigns awash with money, and more.

      A victory by Senator Clinton would mean much the same thing.

      Your last paragraph is brilliant and should be sounded far and wide.

      • Dear Joe Catholic:

        If you’re unprepared or unwilling to be cognizant of the history US bourgeois parties share around such issues as I name — and that list is not exhaustive — we really have nothing to discuss.

        • Dear Joe Catholic:

          Moreover, the last census was in 2010, which Mr. Trump missed by six years. Nevertheless, those and other criticisms generally stand for elections in the US.

  19. The truth is out. According to Bill Clinton the credit goes to angry white men for the election of Donald Trump. Which means, of course, that prophet John P voted for Trump.

  20. John P. has demonstrated more virtue in this one post than the entire combined output of all of Evangelical Christianity over the last year. I still remember thinking when Trump first won the GOP nomination that the Democrats had it locked up because the Evangelicals would never get behind such an obviously morally repugnant individual. Boy, did they prove me wrong.

    • Dear Paul:

      Who would have expected the political attack/racket to which we were subjected? With unprecedented involvement from the intelligence/military community, Sen. Clinton’s e-mail fiasco, ongoing revelations of sexual abuse and now, accusations of foreign manipulation – what could prepare us for this. Again – who would have expected it?

      When a fortnight before Nov 8, it came out that Obama’s signature domestic policy [Obamacare] faced double-digit rate increases in 2017, some had a foreboding sense that ‘that’s it.’

      The best thing to come from this is that at last, some begin now to see US political process itself as a fraud retaining no meaningful relationship to the population.

      As the Orthodox ‘Church’ was the echo-chamber of Tzar Nicholas’ government, so with Evangelical ‘Christianity’ in our own time. It is the channel connecting raw, political sewage to the West Wing.

      By in large, Evangelical ‘Christianity’ is in a pre-converted condition and is untouched by the Gospel.

    • Dear Joe Catholic:

      Not sure if you’re replying to my post. Maybe it’s my browser but the hierarchical order doesn’t always work on my end.

      In the event that you are replying to my post, did I say that Senator Clinton was a better or poorer choice for Christians? It doesn’t sound like me! With neither bourgeois party putting a candidate of integrity on their convention floors, I acted accordingly. Why would I consent to be retained as a political hostage to childish partisan malfeasance? This ‘election’ was a political attack on the working class. As a Christian, I HAD no ‘choice’ in it. I voted accordingly.

      You didn’t vote for policy or leader. With all others who did vote, you supported continuance of the malfeasance which puts us all on the road to world war and revolution. You voted on whether WW III would Russia [Democrat] or China [Republic] first. My ‘vote’ is one voice discrediting the entire political equation, and calling for the abandonment of the same, precisely as the ruling class has already abandoned the working class to its own destiny. Reciprocity is cool.

      NO to Republicans!
      NO to Democrats!
      NO to Big Money!

      YES to the separation of Corporation and State!

      • Dear Joe Catholic:

        Few people do have a clue as to from where I come. And the last time I declared myself, I was told that 1] I had no idea what I was saying, and that 2] I was a suspected troll.

        I’m not going to tell you a ‘couple of policies’ I would like to see enacted. I’m going to direct you to the entire program.

        http://tinyurl.com/humqr67

        Do I expect anyone to read through all 148 paragraphs? No.

        But of those who take 75 seconds to page down and read the section headings, at least some will find something which resonates with them.

  21. I have to say that I am continually disgusted at the lack of comment moderation on this site. “Joe Catholic” should have had this access to this site blocked a long time ago for being inflammatory and a troll. If JP really wanted to create a “table for all” (and by “table for all he means” “everyone who agrees with everything I have to say and don’t question me on anything, especially the authenticity of my motIves or my sincerity, and no white evangelicals, because you kicked me out of the club and I’m still mad”) he would understand that some guests do not want everyone to enjoy their meal at the table, and want to circle the attention to them. JP has prepared a table, and trolls like Joe Catholic are throwing dinner rolls and spitting food in people’s faces. Bad table manners should get you kicked out of the table, bad Internet manners should get you blocked. It did for me anyway, but that’s white male fragility for you.
    Now to Mr. “Joe Catholic” (who I secretly suspect is JP just seeking to drive up site traffic). You seem to find the act of abortion as a non negotiatble, and deal breaker for you when it comes to government decisons. So, it goes to say that you are opposed to them. But, if your wife or daughter were to be sexually assaulted, or one of them had a life threatening complication, do you think it is fair to ask them to carry their baby to term? If your wife had an affair that resulted in a pregnancy could you love a child she sired with another man? If you can, great. But, all that stuff aside, the sooner you and the religious right get it figured out that abortion will NEVER BE OVERTURNED IN THIS COUNTRY, the better. Republicans just dangle that issue and “religious freedom” in front of you like a carrot in front of a horse to keep them distracted from how they have no intention of improving their economic status, and if they overturned Roe V Wade, they’d have to actually do some work. So why don’t you just do us all a favor, leave this blog (unless Pavlovitz grows a pair and blocks you himself, I was blocked on all his personal social media for way less) and go follow Matt Walsh.

    • so…in your mind, the act of censure somehow strengthens your argument…
      I suspect, John P. understands and trusts readers to discern and make up their own minds as to what to believe and more importantly – how to best judge comments and positions.
      What you really want is only one voice to be heard with no dissent permitted.
      Yes, inside every liberal there is tyrant trying to pop out.

    • Joe Catholic – see Robert J. Spitzer, a Catholic Priest, writer and past President of Gonzaga University who I suspect you would enjoy immensely.
      If you can, get his book; “Ten Universal Principles”. In chapter three, he outlines the legal fallacies with Roe vs Wade.

    • Joe, no matter how much you add adjectives to the nouns there is nothing wrong with calling a spade, a spade.

      Pavlovitz is direct and I like that.

      Racism, homophobia, xenophobia and moral hypocrisy found in people needs to be flushed out.

      • It is illogical to say something is disordered but not sinful.

        That is funky apologetics.

        Lets deal with reality.

        A loving faithful relationship between two men does no harm.

        I’ve lived and socialized in the gay community and I know many same sex couples who have lived for years in a committed relationship. They have done no harm to themselves or to others by being in a relationship. If anything, their relationship has been a benefit to them. They grew in devotion to each other, are connected to community and forged stability in their lives. Just like a good marriage does they have had good marriages.

        But, harm has been done to them through the fear filled actions of homophobic people.

        I want to emphasize

        fear filled

        not hate filled.

        you are lead by irrational fears.

        I think it’s time to stop using the word hate and tell it for what it is

        people are fearful.

        I understand that.

        The environment of fear is created by those who misunderstand what being LGBT is.

        We are not disordered in the way we love we are human just like you.

        We can give and receive love in the same way you can, through touch, kisses, holding hands, bodies in union, limbs entangled, feeling the softness of skin the warmth and closeness which helps us feel alive and cherished.

        There is nothing else like that when you are in love.

        You are afraid of abuse but that is not what we experience when we make love.

        We experience the giving of mutual joy through sexual intimacy just like straight couples do.

          • Still, you spun it.

            I don’t agree with how you phrased the question. One does not practice homosexuality.

            Our sexuality is how we are wired to love. It is how we fit with someone.

            When we find the right helpmeet and partner in life we have as much a right to choose them for marriage as anyone.

        • You are relying on texts which do not translate the words properly and a context which did not understand the world or nature, as well as, we do today.

          • It is subject to change because men in organized religion voted for things to be that way and still have all of these questions under consideration.

            Man made doctrines

            Man made churches

            which is why we have so many denominations.

            because men cannot agree

            and men stubbornly think they know better what God thinks

            which is why we have division.

            such a waste of time

            and still same sex relationships are blossoming everyday.

            A look, a smile, a shy
            “Hello, nice to meet you. ”

            you cannot legislate that,

            Sorry, Joe, the church has no control over it.

            • Do you know the reason why the catholic church instituted an Inquisition which used methods of torture on people?

              To control them.

              To force them to believe their doctrine

              because they feared heresy.

              and having heretical congregants meant people would go against their man made doctrines and not go to service, not tithe, not pay for lighting a candle.

              That is what men do when they are powerless

              when they lose influence.

              they torment and hound people.

      • Joe,

        God’s nature is love.

        So I think God can understand love more than anything because he is love.

        I think it is love God acknowledges when we he sees two gay men making love.

        We see the physical act

        God sees the love being expressed.

        He sees beyond the outward appearance and looks at the heart.

        • No, fornicators don’t call it making love they call it sleeping around, a one night stand and all sorts of other things. And there are many LGBT people who don’t want that, they want marriage.

          • The reality is two men can have a loving sexual relationship within the confines of a marriage union.

            It’s not adultery its faithfulness, which is what the Bible says God asks of us,

            to be faithful.

            Marriage is a sacrifice. There is pain in marriage a giving of the self, a denying of ones needs to fulfill the needs of the others.

            I did that whenever I bit my tongue because my spouse was hardheaded and always needed a little more time to soften on a thing before we could move forward.

            Overtime it was thing she knew I did because I respected and loved her, and she appreciated it. It drew her closer to me because she knew I allowed her that space.

            and make up sex is always the best way to bring us closer together again no matter how mad we were about something, sex was the vulnerable place in which our relationship thrived and was made stronger, because when you are in a marriage sex/making love has a greater purpose than just a pleasurable act, it is a bonding together of two people in trust for their good. This good beneficial thing is experienced by two men or two women in marriage, as well.

            • Saying there is no same sex marriage is like saying the sky isn’t blue. You are in denial. There are LGBTQ christians in the catholic church. And some of them are having sex but you just don’t know it because they aren’t telling anyone. Why?because of the denial.
              Dishonesty is worse in my books than being in a marriage and coming clean with who you are.

    • Joe, you are given plenty of space to air your grievances. This is more of a turkey shoot than a safe place to build relationships and forge avenues of understanding.

    • Ebony, too bad you had a bad experience. This table is very similar to our supper table growing up. We had food fights, verbal fights and stole off each others plates. Sometimes we made our mom cry.

      I think the table is messy right now. Not to say it should stay that way but who knows, we were kids and now we are grown up those sort of things don’t happen anymore. Well, except for the arguments and making fun of each other.

      But, I agree on one thing Joe does look down on us all with an air of superiority that rivals Eustace Scrubb but there is redemption for all. Peace .

  22. More atheist= WINNING !!!!!! 25% in the USA and GROWING FAST!
    2nd chronicles 15 13 the core of christianity no different than ISIS. History shows well what happens when indigenous people refuse to worship your “god”, think Native American Indians. YOUR kind want theocracy and this to be claimed a christian nation to be ruled by the laws of the bible. If your “god” is so mighty and powerful then why must he be SOLD to me at my front door? Why does your “god” need to advertise in my mail? Why does your “maker of everything” need to give away gift cards, TV’s, vacations, cars and guns for people to believe in him? Why do I have to support the 450,000 churches in the USA who pay NOTHING in taxes to help the WHOLE community? Religion is the oldest and most profitable business ever invented by MEN to control the ignorant masses and fund their 1% lifestyle.

    • Hi Scott. I am a Christian. Thank you for your comments. Actually, the so-called Christians you cite are NOT the core of the Christian faith. They are a minority group within worldwide Christianity that just happens to be highly concentrated by population here in the United States—unfortunately and so sad to say. The American Christian fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals are in various combinations:

      Theocratic minded (USA is a Christian Nation)
      Taliban and ISIS minded
      Killed most American Indians west of Cumberland Gap, KY
      Institute Biblical Law as U.S. Legal System
      Knock on Your Front Door or Solicit Money by Mail
      Fat Preachers selling Jesus as a Commodity for Money
      Love Guns and the Idea of Killing Guilty Life

      This list is actually much longer and far darker.

      However, I think it would be fair to say that most Christians around the world today do not subscribe to the items on a list like this. The Roman Catholic Church and the mainline American churches (United Methodist Church, Episcopal Church, Lutheran Church, etc.) DO NOT subscribe to this dark and evil list. So, if as an atheist you insist on being angry at Christians, I think it would be most appropriate for you to focus on where the real problem is—the Christian fundamentalist and conservative evangelical churches such as the Southern Baptist Convention, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Churches, etc. Those are the places that BREED MILLIONS of authoritarian, extremist, nutjob people who dare to call themselves “Christians.” If you grew up as a child in one of their churches, I am not at all surprised that you are now an atheist. In my opinion, even young Jesus himself would have been at some significant risk of becoming an atheist in one of these fundie Hell holes.

      Happy Holidays to you and your family.

      • No Brian. He’s talking about you and the other members of your club. He would probably not even be an atheist if it were not for people like you who drive people like him through the door to the atheist club.

    • Romans 13:1-7 is foundational for understanding proper civic attitudes: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

  23. Pingback: Armpit Research, Arms Race, Xmas War, Fake News, Tax Exempt Hate Crimes – FairAndUNbalanced.com

  24. Romans 13:1-7 is foundational for understanding proper civic attitudes: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

    • I agree, what I find interesting is many will quote this and disagree when it comes to Obama. I think it becomes a double-standard based on bias, unfortunately.

  25. There are preachers out there like Jeremiah Johnson from Behold the Man ministries that prophesied Trump as God’s Trumpet. That Trump was used to expose the corruption in both the democratic and republican parties. This ‘prophet’ is now prophesying after a 30 day fast that Trump will be used to expose the corruption in the world. That people are cold to him and because they are cold to him God is going to set record cold temperatures and snow in the US because people are cold towards Trump. Here is what I want to see, such people repent from deceiving many. When you question men like this, they say you’re coming from a wrong spirit. Such is the case withe Jeremiah Johnson of Lakeland Florida’s behold the man ministries.

  26. Every person who says, “Suck it, libs,” calls anyone who didn’t vote for Trump “crybabies” ruins the testimony of all Christians. Every accusation that people who have legitimate fears related to a Trump presidency (along with a Republican Congress and at least one Supreme Court nominee) are “whiners” only pushes people further from anything resembling Christianity.

    There’s an expression I often heard when I still attended Christian churches: “You[r behavior] may be the only Bible that non-Christians ever read.” After “reading” all of the nastiness being spewed by Christians online after Trump’s election, why in the world would anyone want to consider becoming a Christian? Why would any decent human beings consider calling themselves Christian when decent, loving people are clearly outnumbered (roughly 80% of evangelical voters voted for Trump) by the hateful ranks of Trump voters?

    It’s no wonder there are more and more people becoming “nones,” if this is what 80% of evangelical Christians have to offer “the lost.”

  27. John P Writes:m “You’re aligning God with an ignorant, petulant, narcissistic bully. You’re putting God’s rubber stamp on unprecedented racism, bigotry, and violence. You’re attributing to God, the most despicable treatment of women, the greatest intolerance toward the marginalized, the least compassion for the hurting.”

    Hey John, you are parroting the talking points of the whole HRC campaign. And your accusatorial, demeaning rant about the character of our president elect is far from Christlike. You use the strongest language to describe someone you only know about through the media. Have you met Mr Trump? Didn’t think so. “unprecedented racism”? He has many well known blacks, who say different. “Most despicable treatment of women?” Check your facts before you rant. He has more women on his staff mgmt than most corps, AND they make same as men in same positions. Your rant is unbecoming of a minister of Christ, and I find it hard to imagine Jesus would approve of the way you went about this – though it does get you views. BTW Did you rant about any of HRC lies? Did her PROVEN lies and law breaking fit into your blog’s “Stuff that needs to be said” theme. Don’t know if you had or not, as I haven’t perused your back dated blog, but if I was a betting man, I would say NOT. Can you point to me to your blogs where you ranted about any of HRC’s short comings and LAW BREAKING. Finally, What about Romans 13:1 buddy?

    • God is bigger than anything you or I can throw at Him…..He used King Nebuchadnezzar to bring to pass what He had ordained…tell me why He can’t use Donald Trump? Don’t try and limit God..

  28. God is bigger than anything you or I can throw at Him…..He used King Nebuchadnezzar to bring to pass what He had ordained…tell me why He can’t use Donald Trump? Don’t try and limit God..

    • Trump has assembled an Evangelical Executive Advisory Board…..First, notice who is not named. All of evangelicalism’s leading intellects are distinctly absent. The presidents of Fuller, Trinity, Gordon-Conwell, Dallas, and Asbury theological seminaries aren’t there, nor are the current presidents or executive directors of any evangelical denomination. Pastors Bill Hybels and Rick Warren are not there. Jack Hayford is not there. No Vineyard pastor is there. There is no representative from the governing board of the National Association of Evangelicals.

      To repeat: The alliance representing some 40 evangelical denominations and a slew of churches and individual members is not at the tab

      In essence he has assembled those evangelicals with no balance and love the seductive illusion of power. Not one brain among them. In essence, this is not about limiting God, but about exposing corruption among those who are deceived.

  29. When I hear someone who claims to be a Christian, has the audacity to say they voted for Trump because of his policies or how they think he will govern is like me supporting Pontius Pilate in support of Rome. God gave us free will, to choose good or evil period.

  30. Dear John, don’t know if I should address you as Postor John or not as I do not know if the title is correct. Honestly I hope not.

    Please do not tell me you are promoting hate among your congregation if you are indeed a Pastor.

    John, I’m sorry but I give God Glory and Credit for everything good that happens in my life and that I see happening good in anyone’s life. In my opinion the best choice for President was made. Hillary was merely a spinoff of Obama. Surely you don’t side with them. If so, your disdain for Israel is as twisted and ungodly as theirs.

    You call for Pastors to stop giving God credit for a Trump win? I say to you, stop judging the heart of someone you know nothing about.

    I hope you are not thinking that God is looking down on you and happy about your article.

    If you like I can furnish you with scripture concerning spreading gossip, repeating lies and sewing discord among the breathen. But if in fact you are a Pastor I would assume you already know these scriptures which saddens me that you would know better but continue on with violating them.

    In Christ,

    Pastor Brooks

    • Dear Mr. Brooks,

      What makes you think Obama or Hillary were not appointed by God as well? Romans 13….. What you are speaking about here is everything that is wrong with evangelicalism today. The confirmation bias is ridiculous.

  31. Pastor Brooks, while it is true that no one but God knows someone’s heart. You as a preacher also know that the scriptures says that you shall know them by their fruit. So that is all we have to go on, is the things we see one do and say. Neither one of the two, Clinton or Trump were a good choice and I did not support either one of them. It tells us in Exodus Ch. 18 verse 21, what to look for, how to choose our leaders. If people believe that God chooses the president, then they would have to agree that he also chose Obama. If he chooses the president, then he choose booth or the argument is not valid. I happen to believe that, the people chose Trump, the same as they chose Obama and every other president. God gave us free will to chose, just as he gave us the choice to chose between good and evil. Yes, he can intervene if he chooses. But since the ruler of the world right now is Satan, I would say he has more to do with why we find ourselves in the mess we are in, because the people are not seeking Gods will, but their own, as is evident by the things that are happening. We are seeing a great falling away. But the bible tells us this will happen. It also tells us that many will be deceived. If I have said anything here that is not true, feel free to let me know.

    • I respect what you are saying. Nor did I vote for either candidate much like you and probably for some of the same reasons. But now that Trump has won it is up to us, the Christians, to pray to a God who can lead and guide our president. However spreading hate and degrading the elected as many do is no way to handle a situation. Prayer and encouraging others to pray, rather than condemning others for their support, is the way to go. I am sure you agree with that. This article comes off as if the writer is condemning people for supporting Trump which is equivalent to condemning a lost sinner who wants to accept Christ but the Church chooses to reject him rather that love and support him.

      I believe, as you, God didn’t chose Trump but there is a difference in God electing him and anointing him. Read the story of Nebuchadnezzar in the bible of how he wasn’t a godly man but God chose to anoint him as His vessel anyway. What did Nebakanezzar do? Built his kingdom, stopped the persecution of the Christians and during this he came to know God as the True God.

      Should we not support Trump and encourage him to continue on the same pattern as Nebakanezzar? I have noticed a change in Trump already. Have you?

    • The Bible clearly states that God sets up and takes down rulers.

      Trump would not be in office without God’s permission and his foreknowledge of the election results. Don’t you think that God could have intervened and allowed someone else to be elected?

      Have you forgotten that God took down a king who glorified himself (Nebuchadnezzar) and then restored him to power when he repented. God even foretold the event through Daniel, a prophet of God, and Nebuchadnezzar either forgot it or ignored it and so he went through it. Are you unaware that God’s prophet foretold the rule of Cyrus 150 years before Cyrus sat on the throne. Do you think Cyrus would have ever gained power if he didn’t serve the purposes of God?

      Are you aware of Isiah 9:6 concerning another king that would rule? God is always involved in the affairs of men contrary to what anyone might wish to believe.

      Go through the Bible and see how God dealt with rulers of nations and people’s. Your article is not scriptural and it is misleading about God’s plans for this or any other nation or people.

      History is “his story” not ours. It begins in eternity and continues forever because God is not restricted to time as we are. We are privileged to know him and serve him, and there isn’t anything that doesn’t happen outside of God’s perfect will whether it’s his direct intervention or his permission for evil to have its way for a time or a season. In the end, all of it serves his purposes.

      Trump is in office by God’s will and he will serve God’s purposes no matter what you or I or anyone else would like to believe. To think or believe otherwise contradicts God’s word.

  32. The Bible clearly states that God sets up and takes down rulers.

    Trump would not be in office without God’s permission and his foreknowledge of the election results. Don’t you think that God could have intervened and allowed someone else to be elected?

    Have you forgotten that God took down a king who glorified himself (Nebuchadnezzar) and then restored him to power when he repented. God even foretold the event through Daniel, a prophet of God, and Nebuchadnezzar either forgot it or ignored it and so he went through it. Are you unaware that God’s prophet foretold the rule of Cyrus 150 years before Cyrus sat on the throne. Do you think Cyrus would have ever gained power if he didn’t serve the purposes of God?

    Are you aware of Isiah 9:6 concerning another king that would rule? God is always involved in the affairs of men contrary to what anyone might wish to believe.

    Go through the Bible and see how God dealt with rulers of nations and people’s. Your article is not scriptural and it is misleading about God’s plans for this or any other nation or people.

    History is “his story” not ours. It begins in eternity and continues forever because God is not restricted to time as we are. We are privileged to know him and serve him, and there isn’t anything that doesn’t happen outside of God’s perfect will whether it’s his direct intervention or his permission for evil to have its way for a time or a season. In the end, all of it serves his purposes.

    Trump is in office by God’s will and he will serve God’s purposes no matter what you or I or anyone else would like to believe. To think or believe otherwise contradicts God’s word.

  33. Oh my goodness, THANK you, John Pavlovitz for these comments. I too am severely annoyed by fundamentalist christians who think God had anything to do with Trump rising to power. What is so ironic about this belief is Drumpf epitomizes everything that is disgusting about the west. Out of control materialism, inequity and injustice. What a colossal joke! If anything, God is waiting to correct the various governments of the day, including Drumpf.
    God will work on our interiors first, and the material, including government will be corrected last.

  34. There us a big difference between someone following Jesus and someone who is a christofascist. If they are preaching any kind of hate, intolerance, or judgment, they are the latter. If a pastor is wealthy then they are the latter. If your pastor lives in a fancy house or drives a fancy car you can be sure they are not following Jesus.

  35. Scripture clearly teaches that no leader receives authority without God’s permission (John 19:11), or indeed without His direction (Romans 13:1-2). That said, the fact that a leader rises to power is no guarantee that he or she will be a godly leader. King David was raised up by God to do His will. But so was Saul. So was Pharaoh. So was Herod. So was Pilate. That is worth pondering. Jeusus’ commands about “whoever says ‘You fool! will be in danger of hellfire” applies to how we speak about our leaders as well as our neighbors. Scripture (that is, the Lord through the Scripture) also commands His people to obey the authorities, except in those rare cases where obeying man would involve direct disobedience to God. Christians are to be known as the most humble, the most gentle, and the most loving, and the most law-abiding people in any community. The New Testament never grants permission for the raised fist or the shouted, angry slogan.

    • I commented on this post early on because I thought it was going to be a good talk with a Christian kick to it. But regret posting now because I see now that is, and I believe was intended to be, a post merely as a bash Trump post from the beginning. I don’t get into those types of posts.

      Does anyone know this John Pavlovitz? Is he really a pastor? If so John I would give you some good spiritual advice, and that would be to study your bible a little more. If you’re not a Christian my advice would be to get to know Christ. You’ll see things in a total new light.

      God Bless

  36. There are over 600 interdictions against lying in the
    Bible. Satan is also known as “the Father of Lies”. Donald and his administration everytime they open their mouths.

    I think that Evangelicals have found a religious sect that requires rules but not ethics or morals.

  37. Oh, Every time I begin to think I might have lost not just my soul but my mind, after Christians have called me a nihilist and telling me that I should beg forgiveness for not adhering to their definition of scripture; I read something from you and suddenly what I know in my heart to be true was not just a fantasy. THANK YOU!

  38. Pingback: The greatest case for Atheism » Blues for Levantium Lost

  39. Ditto, John. They chose power over people. Religious control over love. God gives us all the ability to choose, and instead they want to legislate to have their way. They have chosen to exalt themselves higher than God. They have chosen hatred, racism, sexism, classism, xenophobia, religious zeal, and homophobia all in God’s name. They seem to have forgotten how Jesus was criticized for loving and being a friend to sinners. They are modern-day Pharisees. Matthew 23 is a passage when Jesus talks about the Pharisees being proud, religious hypocrites. It is not likely who have bristled at your rebuke will recognize themselves as such.

  40. Maybe my story won’t be read because I am commenting long after this blog was published. But anyway . . . I am an atheist, was a Christian. I’ve been an atheist for many years. When I was a child I was raised to be a Christian. And I heard Christians say puzzling things which conflicted with my sense of morality, even as a young person. Hell was number one. Eternal punishment for things that made no sense. And an easy out through salvation. Huh? Gandhi goes to hell but if Hitler at the end accepted Jesus and asked forgiveness he gets heaven? It made no sense. The exclusionary aspects of other religions made no sense. Christianity was the only way and everyone else was wrong. That made no sense to me at all. How would you know for sure if you picked the correct religion? I figured this out at about 12 years old.

    My father who identified as a Christian did not believe in hell and did not believe that other religions were wrong, he just thought of them as different paths. I went along with that for a while, but it still did not make sense. Religions seems so tribal.

    When I was a teen I became a Baha’i. It seemed to acknowledge that there were different paths to God. However, over time I saw that they too believed that their religion was the culmination of those paths and their way was the best way. Plus, despite assurances that women were equal to men, only men could serve on it highest governing body. Um, no.

    I floated as a deist, thinking that if there is a god the god is disinterested.

    And then one day I realized that there was no particularly good reason to believe in a god as there wasn’t any real evidence for god. What a relief. I no longer had to try to make sense of ugliness in religions, of deaths in the name of religion, of the exclusionary basis of religion, of the authoritarian tendencies.

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