Mike Pence and the Christians Who Betrayed Jesus With a Kiss

Image: nydailynews.com

It was early in 2016.

The Republican politicians and the celebrity Evangelical preachers met with the devil in secret. The last 8 years had driven them to desperation.

One of the group, the one called Pence, approached the devil and asked, “What are you willing to give us if we deliver Jesus and his American Church over to you and to your associate—the orange faced man with the wild hair?”

So the devil counted out for them thirty pieces of silver.

They all laughed heartily, feigning disbelief.
Jerry Falwell Jr. doubled over.
Paul Ryan spit out his coffee.
The House Republicans gesticulated wildly.

“Just kidding,” said the devil with a wink, “I know who I’m dealing with here.”

Well into the night they bargained, with each preacher and politician chiming in on his own behalf, until they all reached an equitable arrangement—which included the Presidency, a Supreme Court Seat, carte blanche with the House and Senate—along with millions of fear-blinded American Christians to amen it all.

The group was absolutely giddy over the terms, barely able to conceal their delight.

Seeing this, the devil added one final caveat: he would receive their souls in exchange for it all. Since they’d found less and less use for them lately, they all gladly signed them away.

The devil decided on a way to ratify the betrayal—an embrace and a kiss.

“Nice New Testament call back!” Pence said with a knowing grin, quite proud of himself as the devil cackled.

From then on they watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over.


The next day they found Jesus in America, chastising his disciples who’d fallen asleep while he was praying. They’d been sleeping a lot lately.

Going at once to Jesus, Pence said buoyantly, “Hello Jesus!”

Jesus quietly replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”

Pence leaned in and kissed Jesus on the cheek—but nothing happened.

Pence immediately realized something wasn’t quite right. He’d expected a more dramatic moment. He turned to Jeff Sessions, who rifled nervously through a stack of papers.

After checking the details of the contract with his nervous co-conspirator, he realized this was not the embrace and kiss the devil had stipulated to seal the deal.

He soon found himself on a large stage, under the searing lights and the fixed gaze of millions of people—standing next to the orange faced man with the wild hair. Pence suddenly understood the gravity of the moment and how much he’d given up. His heart began to beat wildly and he perspired through his shirt.

He wanted to disappear. He wanted to throw-up. He wanted to call the whole thing off. He prayed for the Rapture. But before he could process another thought, the orange faced man with the wild hair pulled him close and kissed him awkwardly.

“This is what you wanted, Mr. Pence. “he whispered in Pence’s ear, “You’re a winner now. I hope it was worth it.”

And from that moment, all over America, in churches and from pulpits, in the Senate and the House, in University commencements and weekly podcasts, on courthouse steps and in press releases—the politicians and the preachers each lined up one by one to publicly kiss the orange faced man with the wild hair—and to betray Jesus.

And they soon received all that the devil promised them—but they lost what they agreed to give away too:

They had gained “the world” and forfeited their souls.

Mike Pence recognized the New Testament call back there too, but it was too late to change anything. He’d made his bed. He’d sealed his fate.

Then Jesus looked to the sky and said, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”

And he wept for America.







138 thoughts on “Mike Pence and the Christians Who Betrayed Jesus With a Kiss

  1. Indeed.

    Read Richard Rorty’s “Achieving our Country”, a 1998 treatise that predicts so much and why the seeds of the fruits of 2016 were sown in the 60s and watered in the 80s.

    A country of laws cannot be long governed by those who believe it is a country of men, and cannot be led by a person for whom it is a country of just one man.

    Much blame lies at the feet of the mighty; but as much lies at ours. God doesn’t have a thing to do with it, thank heavens.

    • Mosswings wrote “God doesn’t have a thing to do with it, thank heavens.”

      Nope, God did not do anything except respect the free will with which we were created and have consistently misused, even in the name of God.

      • The extreme of the Evangelicals claim God is in control and answered their prayers, when, in fact, X numbers of Evangelicals told each other to pray and then went out and voted for Trump. So, who is really in control here?? it doesn’t seem like a difficult question, but my “bible-believing” freinds can’t follow this logic. It doesn’t fit their picture.

        • Well, no, leda b, it can’t their logic because their logic is founded on a false premise. They don’t understand what it means to say “God is in control” because they understand it to mean that nothing bad will ever happen to themselves personally despite all the evidence that rotten stuff happens to Christians on a daily basis.

          After many years of trying to figure it out, I have come to the conclusion that God is in control of my soul, my salvation, my place in God’s cupped hands. I look at it this way, if the sun shines on the just and the unjust alike then it stands to reason that the rain falls on the just and unjust alike also.

          God created us human beings with free will and God respects our free will and allows us to choose as we please. We have abused this free will and that’s called sin.

          This present administration is a result of sin and sinful choices. As I see it, anyway.

          • A result of sin…yes, I do believe that.
            But the Evangelicals who have already made God responsible for Trump’s winning the election will simply say that we don’t question what He does, and he must have had a reason for it including the political rape of America if the present course isn’t changed. They just won’t see themselves as having anything to do with it.

            • leda b wrote “They just won’t see themselves as having anything to do with it.”

              I wonder what would get through to them? Nuclear war? And don’t tell me they think the rapture will happen before that because there will be no rapture as that is not Biblical and was invented in 1830, 1850. My degrees are Church History and Biblical and Theological Studies and that idea of the rapture never occurs in any of a great many primary sources I’ve read.

              • Sometime while I’ve been following this blog, which I think was September, John P wrote a wonderful piece about why he would no longer be tolerant of the intolerant but I can’t find it.

              • As I remember from past theology class, some bishop in some century introduced that as an interpretation to the ten virgins letting their lamps go out when the master came unexpectedly, or two at the well, one gets taken and another left, as well as other New Testament verses. Enough to render the concept a mute point for me.

                • To show or not to show intolerance…to allow diverse ideas without agreeing with them. This we should allow. It doesn’t mean I wouldn’t walk right up to Franklin Graham and tell him I believe he has betrayed the Faith and one day he will have to answer for it, but i wouldn’t call him an idiot, eg.
                  I am frank and agressive in my arguments with my Conservative friends, but I refuse to make them outcasts from my circle, even though I did that at first. I didn’t want them as friends anymore. But as time went on it was I, not them, who was becoming bitter, and I had to let it go. Many aren’t talking to me anymore, and that is their choice. If I can’t converse with a Conservative because of their lack of language, common sense, ability to think critically, I tell them so. But I don’t burn the bridges; if they want to, that is okay. In the final analysis, I couldn’t “enter into His gates with thanksgiving and into His courts with praise” while I dwelt in negativity. I missed the fellowship with the Father

                  • Well said Leda, you reminded me of the verse ,

                    “If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.”

                  • Leda, good for you to have the emotional and spiritual maturity to realize it was you who had become bitter.

                    Bitterness is certainly an easy trap to fall into, especially because it is one we believe we can justify and think we are entitled to. But we really can’t and we really aren’t. All we do is hurt ourselves.

                    It’s the same thing with forgiveness. The person who most benefits from the act of forgiveness is not the person who has been forgiven, but the person who forgave.

                    • Ha, Gloria, let me share with you that it took me about 65 years to be that introspective, and still have to be reminded!!
                      And I will tackle the forgiveness thing before I check out!

                    • Leda, you are new here, so you won’t know this but I do not like it when people shorten or abbreviate my name which is Gloriamarie, not Gloria. Thank you for respecting this boundary I place around my name.

                • Leda B, what a strange thing for that bishop to say.

                  Myself, I think the point of the parable of the virgins with the lamps (and why do they have to be virgins, I wonder?) is that all of us are probably the follish virgins even though we, of course, think of ourselves in the starring role of the wise virgins.

  2. Powerful ,haunting and I am afraid it is true. We have many, many friends, use to be friends, who believe this. If Trump resigned today the nation would be in control of these very ones who sold their souls. Now we are on the fringe of many friendships since we see the evil in this man. Even the elect wax cold. They chose to believe this great lie. Mary Couling

    • Mary Elizabeth Couling wrote “If Trump resigned today the nation would be in control of these very ones who sold their souls.”

      As much as I want Trump gone, I also don’t want anyone in this basket of deplorables running lour country.

  3. I am not sure the sequence was that deliberate, and “forgive them , for they know not what they do” is probably closer to the position I would take. These religious leader have been acclimated to their world and domestic views for many years, and their circle of society has not been questioned until recent years. They are reacting to losing their control of American. They are blinded to the thugs and racists that come with the deal. They are drunk with power they have never known before. They are blind to what this new power structure means to America, not to mention to the Christian witness.

    From the Holocaust museum:
    “These were some of the reasons why most Christians in Germany welcomed the rise of Nazism in 1933. They were also persuaded by the statement on “positive Christianity” in Article 24 of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform, which read:

    “We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not jeopardize the state’s existence or conflict with the manners and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The Party as such upholds the point of view of a positive Christianity without tying itself confessionally to any one confession. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit at home and abroad and is convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only be achieved from within on the basis of the common good before individual good.”

    There were many factors in the society which led to that acceptance, but the fact is, it is a true story and one which the Church of Christ should never forget.

    I would highly recommend a book by Francis Shaeffer, Jr. who chronicles the seeds of what we see today in his book “Crazy for God.” The youngest son of Conservative theologian, Francis Jr. recognized the hypocrisy of the religious leaders he met in his family for many years, including prominent Republican figures. He, himself, found his own way through the labyrinth and is now Greek Orthodox, I believe. I am old enough and have been around Evangelicals long enough to fully identify on my own timeline what I observed happening in our Evangelical churches.

    • From the book:
      “There’s no way to jump that because if you accept a tradition and say, “I’m going there for authority”, it’s still you, a fallible human being, making a decision to accept this as true. So you never get away from the subjective elements, so why not just be honest about it? And say “Of course this is a subjective reading of the Scripture of tradition?” Yes, I pick and choose. We all do.
      We pick and choose through everything we do in life, don’t pretend that you’ve received truth in whole cloth from the sky somewhere. And I think that’s what Fundamentalism can’t face because it wants something more than subjective, individual human decisions. And yet you can’t get away from it because even if you decide some theology is true and now you’ll follow it, that is a subjective decision. In addition to which, the writing was by other subjective people, and it’s only in the Scripture because a subjective group of people decided, in some council, that they’d put it in there. And you can say that the Holy Spirit led them, or leads you or whatever, and that just puts it down another step because you’ve chosen to believe that.
      That’s the true divide between Modernity and Fundamentalists’ literalism is a skepticism about our ability to decide what is true. ”

      Frank Schaeffer, Author, (“Crazy for God”)

      Knowing about something is the end of learning about it. Far too many who call themselves Christian “know” what God wants, what God says about any and all situations, what everyone else should be doing to be in line with God–but do not even begin to understand, let alone “know”, what the Truth of Jesus is, what love is–which is Jesus, who is Love, and what Jesus commanded his followers to do. These same people are stuck in the Old Testament, advocating the anger, jealousy, militant disciplining and violence of God, as written in that part of the Bible. That’s not even the part they are supposed to follow…
      And we have a Senate filled with these men (and women, but I can’t name any…there’s such a small representation of them; I guess their husbands want them to stay home and be submissive to him) who “know” that they are doing God’s work in their actions…but in reality, they are hurting those who can least afford more hurt; they are denying basic human rights to “the least of these”. Their actions will not lead to redemption but to death–for both those who are affected by their actions (a real, physical death) and themselves–a more permanent, eternal death for failing to do the work that all Christians have been called to do.

      • I am first inclined to agree with you, Kathleen, but as I pursued that line of thought, I realized that I was passing judgment on 75% of friends I have had for over 60 years. They are not bad people, and I was beginning to have that anger approach John talked about awhile ago.

        I am not saying that would apply to you, but I approached this debate quite passionately, and I, personally, had to let some of that judgment go. Frankie was right about being ultimately responsible about what you believe and do; but at the same time, I believe it is in the scripture that the teachers will be accountable, and Fundamentalists are taught to follow their leaders and Catholics are taught to follow their priests (although most American Catholics have been liberated). So when the Falwells and the Dobsons and the Franklins lead the parade, they don’t question. And, frankly, for the most part, the friends I know simply don’t seem capable of applying logic where they believe the Bible has already spoken.
        I don’t know their hearts and what misgivings they might have had or have now, but those who are in tune with the Holy Spirit will have a battle going on. Once you have declared that Trump was God’s doing, you are caught in a dilemma of blaming God or admitting you were wrong.

        • Excellent point leda b! “…you are caught in a dilemma of blaming God or admitting you were wrong.” True words!!

        • leda b wrote “Once you have declared that Trump was God’s doing, you are caught in a dilemma of blaming God or admitting you were wrong.”

          Exactly. They certainly won’t want to blame God and I have learned that Entirely Too Many People are incapable of admitting they are wrong.

          Dilemma, indeed.

    • Frank Jr is a hero of mine. Have read all of his books. Very enlightening. Thank you for reminding us of the similarities with the holocaust and now. I have the refrain always in my head, and they came for me…………………and no one was left to speak. Peace and Love,

  4. As a follow-up, while the Evangelicals embrace Deitrich Bonhoeffer as a hero and martyr for the church, they do not understand that he would not stand with them today. He supported the “Confessing Church” in that day, which had smaller church communities and were allowed to exist for awhile. We need a Confessing Church that is not politically aligned, although the Church should stand for issues that are understood to conflict with the current political direction of our country.

  5. I’ve shared this on my FB page and just had a report from one person that she had a virus warning. Facebook isn’t allowing the URL to be shared privately although I was able to post the link on my timeline and another person’s. Please, sir, see what you can do. You may remember I’m not a Christian, but this article is that important and worth the read.

  6. “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36

    Christians are playing with the real fire IMO. And so many are doing this heedless of the many warnings and commands not to. Sad. Just sad.

  7. I disagree with “they know not what they do.” I will not let them off that easily. They knew but were so driven by power, money, and fame that they went along with this man who has no morals, no compassion, and little intelligence. In the end, if our country is broken financially and spiritually as a result of these coming years of investigation these disciples will remain wealthy while the middle and working classes suffer. On the other hand, if a nuclear war is a result, we all perish.

    • I honestly believe that “they know not what they do” because they thought they were getting power, money, and fame. They don’t understand that they have pushed up the chances for Nuclear War to 2% over the next four years. They don’t understand that giving their wealthy benefactors free reign could mean the permanent (to our time frame) ecological damage to our planet. They don’t understand that Fundamentalist Evangelical Churches backing Trump to gain power and control of America are being depopulated by young people. These churches are now creating atheists and un-churched at an unprecedented rate, eroding the very foundation of their churches.

      If they had known that they might have turned down that deal with the devil. This is why I believe that they didn’t know what they are truly doing.

    • I agree with you Sue. Anyone who reads Scripture knows what it says. Jesus spoke in parables often but he also was more than clear. Seeking the power of politics is a trap for anyone of sincere faith and not a compact to be entered into for the purpose of power, division and control.

    • Hi Sue. You know human anatomy and George W. Bush. It’s not a “nuclear war.” It’s a “knuckular war” because it is fought with the knuckles.

      • I cannot do less than Christ who forgave the religious leaders and the crowd that day on the cross. And we are faced with what to do with the Pharisees and priests in 2017. Luckily we have a political system that might help us undo the damage socially, but the ideological chasms is great and Christians must decide themselves what to do, individually. Those of us who have walked away from the Evangelical crowd find that few are following, and it is highly unlikely that any of us will return to the “fold” of the Fundamentalist. But I feel we have more of a capacity for including them in our discourse, given that we are the more tolerant.

        • leda b wrote ” But I feel we have more of a capacity for including them in our discourse, given that we are the more tolerant.”

          May I ask in what way should we be more tolerant?

          There are certain things I am not going tolerate and I don’t believe Jesus asks it if me: authoritarianism, bigotry, fascism, gynophobia, homophobia, intolerance of a different opinion, misogyny, racism, rape, sexual assault/molestation, transgenderphobia, white supremacy, and xenophobia.

        • I don’t know anymore leda b. I think I have lost much of my ability to be tolerant. I feel like maybe I have lost my place among “the more tolerant.” I think I have in fact lost my ability to feel or show tolerance for those I see as dangerous, causing harm or willfully ignoring the point of the Bible they thump.

          It is as if a screen has descended and I see them as enemies. I used to see them as lost, brainwashed by the likes of Falwell, Graham, Dobson, Robertson, and of course the right wing media empire and the Republican Party that has so exploited them, but now I see them as having made a choice so unconscionable, so beyond the pale that I cannot reconcile the process that could lead them there.

          I never thought I would admit what my words must already have shown but I do not want to tolerate them, I do not even want to welcome them when or if they finally reckon with what they have done. Most days I feel my attitude will put me in hell with them and I am even okay with that. The election of Trump has been that profound for me.

          I confessed to God and now to you all, I am just lost. I cannot find the love of Jesus in this. I have looked, I have prayed, I have sought Scripture, I have visited religious websites, I have read sermons, even Adam Hamilton (my go to) cannot comfort me. I won’t even ask for prayer, I am good with where I am. THAT is the scary part.

          So, God Bless You if you still have such tolerance left.

          • Banished, let’s have a chat when you lose your health care, or in the aftermath of the nuclear attack that Trumpty Dumpty is sure to bring down on us. You probably think that because you’ve been loyal to the GOP brand for all these years that you’ll get preferential treatment. You won’t. You’ll be screwed over just like the rest of us – you were merely a means to an end. Beyond that, you don’t matter one bit to the Republicans.

          • I didn’t have any tolerance left for the individual, but as I stated in an earlier response, living in constant personal criticism where I didn’t even want to see them, was damaging my faith. I needed to let go of a very judgmental attitude, where normally I would have the left it to the Holy Spirit . I have to go to weddings, funerals that take place in their churches, and I really had to deliberately do what I thought Jesus would do. On the other hand, I will attack the actions and policies of these Evangelicals at every opportunity because I think they are destroying the witness of Christ and making it impossible to call oneself a Christian without some long explanation. And I tell them frankly just that.

          • sandi. I respect & believe your explanation of your state of mind. Thanks for sharing that.

            From our side, we wanted a Conservative for President. We wanted Jeb Bush, or Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina, et al…we did NOT want Donald Trump.

            Because there were too many candidates, and the conversation got tangled, people went for the ‘Plain Speaker’ and the true ‘Outsider’ .

            In the end, we liked the idea of an international businessman shaking up DC, someone to chip away the cement surrounding our Economy.

            [We never thought Trump would win against Hillary. In fact, his nomination handed the Presidency to her on a silver platter. ]

            And then drip, drip, drip. Hillary couldn’t connect with Americans (for Trump, it was as easy as ‘falling off a truck’).

            Hillary thought she could collect votes by using 80s tactics combined with sheer will (that’s a turn off). Whereas, Trump was breezy, and unconventional (that’s attractive), he joked around, he talked about creating jobs. He visited average Americans.

            Alas! the Blue states voted Democrat, and the Red states voted Republican. [Who can fault that?]

            I think if Progressives could look at their own Democrats in (Michigan, Wisc, Pennsylvania) that voted for Trump, that could help tamp down the bitter rage they feel against Trump supporters. If nothing else, one can admire people for voting their conscience against party lines –yes, ‘even if…’

            Shalom. <

            • Leslie M – I have to ask for curiosity and to expand my understanding. I agree with your assessment of the things the dems and Hillary do wrong, but what evaluation did you give Donald Trump on moral grounds, and would that issue ever affect your voting? And the same questions on Hillary?

          • Hey Sandi, maybe we need a new way of looking at what tolerance is and what we can or cannot tolerate. I think there are understandable limits, so I hope you won’t be too hard on yourself. I don’t view you that way.

            • I really wish I could find that blog of John P’s about how and why he wasn’t going to be tolerant of the intolerant. He wrote it before Sandi and others join up. It might be useful to read it as part of this discussion. I will keep on searching John’s website for it.

          • Sandi, what you describe is exactly how I feel. I am in the same state of being as you. I think there are just some things that are intolerable. I think my faith says that there are some things that are just intolerable. When you are talking about people blithely walking over the cliff and pulling the rest of us over with them, that is intolerable. I have no quarrels with anyone who wants to tolerate, I see that as complicit but that is their problem, I can’t be complicit with what they are doing to this country and using God and Jesus as their cover. Do people really think that God and Jesus are ok with the raping and pillaging of the God’s land, the hatred and discrimination of God’s people. I personally don’t and I have no sympathy with anyone who does. That is my honesty. God and I have had numerous conversations about this, I think He/She agrees. Peace and Love,

            • I’m not sure we are not talking around each other in our terminology, but when I think of the intolerance practiced by the anti-abortionists and homophobics, by those who think they have the truth locked up in their theology, I think simultaneously of the hatred that produces that intolerance and the hatred that follows. I do not want to be caught in a web of hatred. Perhaps this is where “righteous anger” can be applied.

              • I accept that point. Perhaps we are just using different terminology. Perhaps I need to say there are some things that I find unacceptable and I will stand firm against the hatred that has been let loose. Peace,

                • Reading over what we all have said, I wonder if our confusion is that we tend to identify behavior as though it were identity.

                  That is something I have been guilty of. It is one thing to say to a child “you are behaving like a bad girl/boy” and it is completely different to say “you are a bad boy/girl.” The first describes behavior while the latter assigns identity.

                  Maybe instead of talking about intolerant people, we need to talk about people who behave in intolerant ways? If we move the conversation from labeling people to discussing behavior and the ramifications of behavior, we might have better conversations?

                  • I think you are probably right. I think also that we tend to confuse intolerance with hatred so when the word is used in a different context it doesn’t sit well with people. I get that. Peace and Love

                    • Thanks, Gloria,
                      One of the first rules of parenting is to separate the behavior from the child. Although I detest the “hate the sin but love the sinner” phrase for some reason. Also, focusing on behavior is a relatively recent concept , whereas, calling children in particular a good boy or bad girl was the lingo. So we have some un-learning to do.

                    • Leda, only the trolls here call me Gloria.

                      As for the hate the sine love the sinner expression I to hate it and it is not what St. Augustine said.

    • I agree, I think they are so blinded by power and money, even if they knew they would do exactly what they are doing. Destroy the earth, oh well, it won’t happen in my lifetime so who cares is the attitude. Peace and Love,

    • That’s how I feel. They know exactly what they’re doing. But we still pray for God to forgive them anyway, though it rather sticks in my throat.

  8. I think this post just went over the heads of many. Pence had his moment of decision and opportunity to choose differently when the disgusting Trump tape came out and he stumbled. But, it may have already been too late. Once you go down the wrong path it is near impossible to turn around and find your way back.

    In my opinion Pence compromised. From what I can ascertain the Vice Presidency was more important to Pence than recognizing Trump’s lack of fitness as a presidential candidate– yet he went ahead and endorsed him.

    If Trump gets impeached and Pence suddenly withdraws his support and tries to come off as the good guy– don’t believe him. He has been one of Trump’s strongest supporters.

    My question is: Can you impeach both the President and Vice President at the same time? No that’s not far enough! Can you impeach the whole cabinet and push the restart button?

    America needs a do over !

    • I agree that we need a “do over” Kathy, but that will not happen. We have to survive this and if we can keep the nation united, we MIGHT contain the damage. The Christian faith will not be so lucky. Pence has done more to prove the Atheist scorn of religion is based in fact than Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen or Jerry Falwell has. Pence had a golden ticket to stand up for God and he chose power instead. More Christians need to recognize that truth.

    • Yep:

      ” Look Pence. You can’t back out now!!! We already have your name printed on campaign signs, banners, and all sorts of other literature. That cost us millions!!!”

    • Kathy, wrote “My question is: Can you impeach both the President and Vice President at the same time? No that’s not far enough! Can you impeach the whole cabinet and push the restart button?”

      That question is best addressed to a Constitutional lawyer.

      At this moment, the Constitution does not allow for a do-over. The Constitution has no provision for saying this election didn’t count and we have to have a new election.

      For whatever my opinion might be, I think all of the stuff we are seeing are not themselves the problem, they are only the symptoms of the very severe Constitutional crises we are in. The Founding Fathers did not include any way to reverse an election because, apparently, they never thought white males would ever be stupid enough to elect incompetent, immoral, temperamentally unfit, unethical people into high office.

      As I understand it, the only way we could have a do-over would be if we passed a Constitutional amendment and I really can’t see a Congress controlled by the GOP passing an amendment that would effectively remove the lot of them from the government.

      I suppose maybe there could be a class action lawsuit that makes it way to the Supreme Court and then SCOTUS could decide. But I am not really sure about that.

      So, in conclusion, the USA is in a terribly messy situation.

  9. Food for thought . . . and inner reflection. The sliding scale of morals has nearly been worn out and run beyond it’s limits to accommodate the goal, the win and especially the continued, unwavering support that exists. It wasn’t a case of the “lesser of evils” after all . . .

    • Good point R.J. I would love to hear from some of the Trump voters now– I think the the confidence in him is starting to wane but they might be too proud to admit it.

      Anne Coulter is starting to criticize Trump not because she regrets her vote (she says) but because he is not the leader she thought he was.

      “I’m not very happy with what has happened so far,” she told the Daily Caller. “I guess we have to try to push him to keep his promises. But this isn’t North Korea, and if he doesn’t keep his promises, I’m out….”

      Then she goes on to say, “I think everyone who voted for him knew his personality was grotesque, it was the issues.”

      She admits she knew his personality is grotesque ! I have no idea what people are thinking if they vote for someone who is grotesque to them.

      • Hi Kathy. I hope the weather is nice in Canada—sultry here and my air-conditioning is broken.

        Actually—much as I might like not to admit it—only a few of Trump’s voters are peeling away from their support for him. The latest I have heard over just the past few days is that his political base is still mostly intact and still supports him, they are in for the long haul, and if he personally shoots a random person dead in Times Square—they will stay with him and support his acquittal in court.

        The factory worker who gets paid $11 an hour or less, never had a raise over 20 years, lost his job 5 year ago, and has not been able to find a new job remains absolutely firm in his conviction that Trump is going to personally save him and lead him to the Promised Land.

        Someone does need to help these people, but it is not going to be Trump. Even if he truly wanted to help them, the Republicans in Congress would not allow it because most of them have a “Rich Man’s Worldview.”

        Look. I grew up as the son of one of these low-paid workers in a poor white neighborhood full of them. I know them like I know the palm of my own hand. Think back to your own K-12 years in school. You remember them. Your own classrooms were filled with them—and the bell curve told the story. These low-paid workers who have not had a fair break in years are the students who had “C” averages or less in school no matter how hard they tried. Their brains simply did not have the right chemical balances necessary to do successful academic work that would get them to a good-paying job.

        Throughout human prehistory and history, the world has always had a great need for people who could do various kinds of manual labor and crafts—and do them with excellence. This is what human nature and human evolution (even God) made them to do—and our cultural world would have never arisen without them. They were valuable citizens who were highly valued in many instances throughout human history. These people were and still are the “C” average or less students in our K-12 schools.

        The problem now is that we are at a new sea-change in human history—a place where we are about to jettison 5,000 years of human history for a brave new world dominated by computers and machines that need only a “little bit” of human help.

        Now here are the other two bad parts to this picture:

        (A) In this brave new world, babies born to do manual labor and crafts will still be coming into the world—in even greater numbers—but they will have increasingly less and less and less manual labor or crafting work to do—because computers and machines will be doing it for zero wages. So, the “C” average and less kids will be growing up into a world where they will be unable to find a manual labor job and where they will be intellectually unable to learn how to do higher level jobs because they do not have the brain chemicals necessary to “go to the next level.”

        B) Beginning about 1960 (and probably before), people who do manual and craft labor began to be looked down upon by smart people—the people who had the brain chemicals necessary to work at “the next level” and it began at a very young age. In my own K-12 school system, the rich kids, the smart kids, and even the teachers looked down on the “C” average or less students as something approaching “human garbage.” I experienced it personally and so did many others. I fear that the so-called “Age of Computers” or Age of Automation” has made this way of looking at manual labor and crafts people much, much, much worse. Before these ages began, manual labor and crafts people were still needed. When someone needs you—you have at least some measure of value. However, in this brave new world of computers and machines, the need for these manual labor and crafts people is going away, away, and away, which means that manual labor and crafts people are rapidly being graduated to bonafide “human garbage.”

        The problem here is two-fold:

        (A) The out-of-work people who need a manual labor or crafts job know something is wrong as they sit feeling lonely and helpless at home—but they do not know why they are in the situation they are in. (Well, you now do know because I just explained it to you above. It is not your fault. You are blameless. You are who God made you to be–nothing wrong with that. You have not failed. American society and culture have failed you.)

        (B) Remember all those K-12 smart and rich kids who looked down on the “C” average or less kids and viewed them as being something approaching “human garbage.” Kids grow up and often take their kid values with them to adulthood. Most of those smart or rich kids who grew up are now called the “Republican Party.” President Donald J. Trump is one of them and so are the Republicans in Congress. The manual labor and crafts people will get no true respect and little help from Trump and the Republicans in Congress because they still despise those manual labor, craft labor, and “C” average or less people they view as being “human garbage” Those of you who voted for Trump will find this out the hard way over the next 4 years. Taking away your health insurance was just a continuation of a heartless despisal of those “human garbage” people that began in K-12. Everyone knows a garbage has no need for health insurance or a meaningful tax cut. Who would issue a health insurance policy for the contents of their waste basket?

        (C) The Democrats are not much better now. When I was growing up, they actually cared about the manual labor and crafts people and the “C” average or less people. They almost completely forgot them in this last election cycle—and they paid dearly for it. However, the Democrats have another problem. They actually understand the “brave new world” reality that I laid out above—but they do not know what to do about it. They are BAFFLED. How do you tell an unemployed, half-literate Pennsylvania factory worker with a 93 IQ that he needs to get a B.S. degree in computer science to ever again have a shot at anything that looks like a decent job? He is intellectually incapable of ever getting that degree, but he still needs it to feed his family. Neither the Democrats nor anyone else has an answer to what might be the greatest single question of our times:

        “What does our American society and culture do with the millions, and millions, and millions of people who were born into this world to do manual labor and crafts in a world that no longer needs their skills or wants them. Our Christian faith demands that we love and respect these people—and that we find some meaningful way to solve this problem, which is getting worse and worse with each passing day. However, the problem seems almost intractable because it has no quick or easy solution.”

        The Democrats do not know how to effectively solve this problem anymore than anyone else do. They cannot offer solutions—because there are none right now.

        • Well except for the fact that all over this nation there is a real shortage of skilled labor and communities are doing more and more to add vocational training classes in HS and centers at community colleges because of it.

          The low-wage widget workers on an assembly line at clothing and furniture plants that sustained rural communities for decades are gone and not coming back but mechanics, welders, electricians, heavy equipment operators, certified crane and rigging workers, house carpenters, concrete carpenters, concrete finishers, warehouse workers, dock workers, truck drivers, landscaping workers, paving workers, quarry workers, and the many, many jobs created in the energy industry, including the green energy economy offer opportunity and many have real shortages of labor right this minute.

          Even the touted robot and computer generated work will still need human handlers, technicians, oversight etc.

          I think people are in a panic as the economy changes, much like the buggy makers and blacksmiths were once upon a time, but the transition will still happen.

          As for those who will be left out, a guaranteed minimum income is the future solution as rational minds realize it is the only humane and societal value solution we can come up with without bringing back the poorhouses and the workhouses.

          There is no challenge this nation cannot meet except nuclear destruction and THAT is the real elephant in the room as we talk about jobs, the economy, the debt and God’s plan IMHO.

          • Once again, I am with you. I would add that if they would take green energy and run with it like the Chinese have they would employ a lot of people. But hey they want to promote fossil fuels and make people go down into coal mines. Why not retrain these miners to make solar panels etc. That’s to easy and they can’t make a lot of money quickly so screw it. Anyway I agree with you.

        • Hey Charles, I am well and I hope you and your family are finding ways to keep cool!

          My first reflections about your thoughts is to consider the overview of history. Societies and economic systems have not been contrived by men to benefit all people or to encourage individuals to use their gifts and find contentment through contributing to the greater good.
          Rather mankind has had to battle or negotiate with each other for basic necessities and happiness.

          Government, economic and societal structures have grown out of a desire to control a labor force whether through enslavement, serfdom or a wage class and make wealth for those who hold the means of control. Those established governments which rule people have, over time, been challenged through uprisings, outside invaders, or imperialists. Throughout history mankind has struggled and fought. Economic systems, kingdoms and dynasties have become great and powerful and then they were attacked and destroyed by powerful outside armies.

          Those in power either conquer you or offer protection against enemies — and the everyday manual labor, crafts people, C” average or less people….Plus, I would add, the artisans, the thinkers, the entertainers, the sick, the poor— all gather at cities in nations to give up their individuality and personal power to be protected by warriors and kings, i.e.: a military and government who make a safe city for them to live in and prosper.

          Therefore those people who are not ambitious, who want to be content and left alone to seek their personal happiness need a ‘Benefactor’ to protect and provide for them so they can go on with their day to day life, have basic necessities or get the things advertised on TV. Because we live in a dangerous world of enemies who want to take away our livelihood— or at least this is what we are told.

          This was the appeal of Trump. The irony is Trump doesn’t care about the everyday person who is struggling let alone the sick, the poor or the vulnerable of society.

          Jesus brought up the concept of God’s Kingdom which is pictured throughout the Bible as being a place were everyone has what they need and more— where the great serve the needy— where we find rest from our struggles and adversaries. As a general concept, that kind of world can only exist with God’s presence or with those who serve God. It’s not a pie in the sky dream. It is something we can live out right now— despite the dangerous world we live in.

          • “Jesus brought up the concept of God’s Kingdom which is pictured throughout the Bible as being a place were everyone has what they need and more— where the great serve the needy— where we find rest from our struggles and adversaries. As a general concept, that kind of world can only exist with God’s presence or with those who serve God.”

            Whether this is pie in the sky or not, it is God’s Plan, and while we can’t count on any political platform to turn the ship, in a democracy what we can do is support programs and candidates that seem most likely to promote God’s agenda.

            • Jesus tells us “The kingdom of God is at hand.” What does “at hand” mean? Well, I have at hand a teacup, a teapot, my laptop, a mouse, a chair, a desk.

              Something that is at hand is something right there in front of us. So the Kingdom of God is already here and we are in it. It is not in our future after we die. We are the vassels of the king right this minute.

              Of course, here in the USA, we threw off the shackles of an earthly king in a fit if violence, so it may be more challenging for us to realize what it means to live in a kingdom and be kingdom people.

              OTOH, Jesus is pretty danged clear about it. Here is something said by a fairly devout Roman Catholic with some pretty danged brilliant critical thinking skills. It is also the sig I use in email.

              “If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are or we’ve got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don’t want to do it.” Stephen Colbert

              So when Leda wrote “Whether this is pie in the sky or not, it is God’s Plan, and while we can’t count on any political platform to turn the ship, in a democracy what we can do is support programs and candidates that seem most likely to promote God’s agenda.” I said a very hearty AMEN

              • The real problem is that these kind of Christians that vote against government programs to help the poor think they are helping the poor through Christian charities. When people think Christian charities is enough then to can see why they oppose the government helping the poor. With social media being able to create “bubbles” of reality that are based only on their beliefs and filter hard facts that run counter to their beliefs as “fake news”, we see the results.

                A country run by beliefs divorced by what is really happening cannot stand.

                • Robin, I had an interesting experience a couple of times with “Christian Charities.” I went to a Salvation Army food bank, passed their checklist to find out if I were worthy enough as an accredited member of the “deserving poor” and the woman rustled me up some groceries.

                  Among them was a box of two dozen donuts. As I had recently been diagnosed with diabetes I explained to the woman that as a diabetic, I could not eat donuts and maybe she could keep them for people with children.

                  She looked at me and said “You must not be very hungry, then” and took everything back and I left the “Christian charity” food bank empty handed.

                  In 2014, just after my first heart attack when I was so ill and had no help from anyone because my best friend was nursing her dad through chemo and my parish ignored me, I desperately needed some help in my hime, housework, laundry.

                  I called all over the place trying to find someone to come in and volunteer just a few hours to make my home manageable. I was told no one would volunteer to do someone’s housework for them. At theSalvation Army I was told “Christian charity is not free.”

                  Christin charities will only meet the needs if people donate generously to them.

                  Christian charities will only meet needs when they stop being suspicious of people looking for a free handout because I gotta tell you, I have often been in need of a free handout and so I can’t see what’s wrong with it.

                  Food banks are a horrible place to depend upon for groceries because they are only as good as what is donated and wht is donated? The cheapest foods on the verge of their expiration dates, not healthy foods like fruits, veggies, quality sources of protein.

                  But will anyone here except the liberals hear what I am saying? We poor people are treated like scum, as if we have no right to dignity, privacy, or respect. Everything is given to us with some sorts of strings attached or hoops we have to hop through and some of us are too disabled, too handicapped, too suffering to endure it. Yet somehoe we do because otherwise we die.

  10. Amen, amen, amen and again I say amen

    Except I am 100% confident that they knew and know exactly what they are doing.

    There is going to be a firestorm over this piece.

  11. Prediction:

    Everyone here with half a brain knows that Trump has untreated mental illness issues—which explains why he says one thing and then shoots that same thing down 24 hours later in a Tweet Storm. As things continue to go against him, spiral downward, and further exacerbate his mental illness issues, he is going to become even more paranoid along the way. I am going to predict here that he will begin to see Mike Pence as a threat rather than an ally:

    “He’s next in line for my job. If I lose—then he wins. I bet he is secretly working behind my back right now to get me—the real WINNER—out of office. I bet he is allied with the Republican establishment, the Democrats, and the news media—ALL BEHIND MY BACK. I have to do something about this now. Is there any way I could get rid of him and make Ivanka my new Vice-President?”

    Be on the lookout for it folks!!!!

  12. Here is another excellent read IMO.


    “… When you started talking about attacks on Christianity, I thought you might have been referring to the racially motivated slaying of pastors and lay people at Mother Emmanuel church in Charlotte some time back. Or I figured you were referring to the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt this past Palm Sunday. That’s what I call persecution. But having to pay a judgment for refusing to bake a cake for a same sex couple in violation of the law against discrimination? This you call persecution? There’s a letter in the Bible, written by the Apostle Peter (ever heard of him?). He’s an expert on persecution, having been on the receiving end of it more than once. He says you don’t get divine kudos from suffering the consequences of breaking the law-even if you are a Christian. Moreover, there is a Christian fellow named Paul (aka Saul) who wrote a letter to a church in Rome nearly two thousand years ago. He said that if your enemy is hungry you should feed him (that’s in the Bible too). So wouldn’t it have been the Christian way to have baked a cake for the same sex couple in your example, even if you deem them enemies (another assertion I don’t quite understand)? I’m confused.”

  13. First of all there is no soul at all. That is fiction made up by angry Christians like you to control people by your fire breathing fundamental preaching. Secondly, there is no Jesus, no Paul, etc. etc. You are like the Tea Party. You run out of a little hole throw rocks and run back in and claim Jesus to cover your actions. Same as Crusades. Get over yourself. For god’s sake man

    • That’s okay, Tom. If you ever suspect you have a soul, don’t hesitate to entertain that idea. It will change your life. But then, if you aren’t ready for a life change, avoid.

      • All I have ever seen of christians is fundamental hell fire sermons and crazy political stuff. Like on this blog all it says is god this , jesus that, blah blah blah, I have no problem with the politics just this whole jesus thing. Like everybody has no brain and thinks jesus is some sort of a place to hide. How is that not fundamentalism? I say if you have a point you don’t need jesus to hide behind. Besides, jesus if about love for gods sake and I don’t see enough love here to equate to a flirt. Makes my point. jesus is made up, christians are full of it. If having a soul makes me like this I do not want a soul.

        • Tom, there are many people on this blog who are Episcopalian, Methodist, for example, and not evangelicals and fundies. For the most part, people who identify that way are the trolls.

    • Here’s the thing, Charles. Right when I think he has proven exactly how stupid he is, he goes ahead and says something even more stupid. Is he unaware of what Mueller is going to do? Just how clueless is he?

      • Well, Gloriamarie. I am not sure the depths of his ignorance, stupidity, and unwillingness to learn have been fully plumbed. It is at least a large Florida sinkhole right now. However, I fear that in actuality it might be one of the great cenotes of Central America:


        If Trump does not resign first, I think Mueller will plumb those depths.

  14. The dude that writes it calls homself a pastor and you guys act like the tea party. Not a christian site? Same Jesus games

  15. I think at least 13% of my own people , LGBTQA+’s, voted for Pence.

    I think these people deserve to die.

    While I am at it, as a response to your recent entry about sticking around, I stick around to hurt people who use the term “political correctness” in any context. It’s a completely fictitious concept.

    Again, feel free to flame me because I will not respond anyway.

    • So people need to die because they disagree with you. Hey pastor whoever. I told you that you were a fundamentalist!

      • Tory Dickens has not identifed themself as a fundie, I don’t think. But I can understand the frustration because the 13% helped usher in a regime that poses a real threat to life and livelihood in the LGBTQa+ community. It is hard not to think of them as traitors, the real sense.

      • God is the only one who can hold judgement and a true condemnation.
        We are all guilty, no exemptions , all have fallen short, we cannot point fingers at others.
        We must repent, turn to God, Holy and Just God, live as he has show us in the bible, denying worldly lust , seeking holiness, living to his standard , not what we see around us, or some other sinner leads us to believe will give us false peace or presence .
        Real Peace , Assurance of Salvation in Jesus Christ , A peace that pass’s all understanding.

    • I have a very close family member who is trans. I fear for him; I fear for him running into the wrong people at the wrong time. Pence’s history of discrimination and treatment makes my stomach churn. But I cannot wish him to death because of that. I wouldn’t mind hearing he died, but I don’t want any part of me to bear that responsibility.

          • Well Leda. Now that you are here, I am going to have to teach you how East Tennessee Mountain Folks talk—just for fun. One of the basic rules of the language is that all one syllable words are actually two-syllable words. Let me show you:

            Hell – Heeza goin’ ta H-a-a-a-a-a-a-yul.

            Will – His lawyer drawed him up a w-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-yul.

            Bill – Has yoo paid yer phone b-e-e-e-e-e-yul?

            In fact, he has not paid his phone bill because he followed his dreams to the Promised Land where there are no phone bills. Just listen:

            • Waaay-el Chaals, wha-en ah read yoo pos, ah’ll tra to re-ad with yoo aya-saint. Mah peopoh waas bone n raa-ised in Aalabama, but thaey ha-ed ta go up noth lookin fo wook. Thaey end uup in Alaeska and Washingto-on State. Thaey was fixin’ ta go ba-ek but nevah leaft, so ah kin talk purrdy good now.

      • As someone who lives in Indiana, Pence is evil. His brand of Christianity is full of hatred, and he uses it with a smile.

    • Hi Taylor. Most people here are not going to attack you for being LGBTQA+. As for the occasional fundie who shows up here with militancy in mind, they get a strong talking to from most of us.

      As for your 15 percent, I have never understood that. I live in a town where federal government or federal government-related employment is the main source of income for the population. I have long thought that these local lemmings line up at the voting booths to cast their ballots FOR the candidates they know are going to put and end to their jobs. I think a conversation might go like this:

      Who did you vote for?

      I voted for Trump.

      Why? He is committed to taking away your job.

      It’s a matter of principle. I am against big government.

      Why? Your job pays $178,000 per year +benefits.

      I know. I just believe my job should not exist.

      Well, if it didn’t exist, how would you feed your family?

      I don’t know.

      Do you like what you do?

      Love it. Greatest job in the world. Very challenging. Keeps our nation safe from foreign attack.

      Then why would you want to vote for a person who will stop you from protecting your country from attack?

      Well, you see. My daddy was a Rep……

      • Charles, the cognitive dissonance displayed in that conversation is giving me a headache.

        I am thankful you have the skills to dialog with people who think that way. I don’t.

        My gifts lie elsewhere. Here is where I fight them.

        One way to persist in resistance is my FB group, Gloriamarie’s Progressive Stuff, where I post actions, petitions, info, actual news, evidence, facts. There’s a pinned post that I highly recommend people read. I also ask a screening question so I can keep the spammers and the trolls out. All who read this are invited.


  16. Great and powerful story, John Like Judas when he initially carried out his betrayal, white evangelicals do not know the full effects of their sin yet.

    • But they will one day—and they will see the millions that they killed with their militancy—and learn that they were, in fact, doing evil in the name of Jesus. I think this is what Jesus meant about wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fundies are taught that they are exclusively the children of God—and all others Christians and nonChristians are definitely—no doubt whatsoever— going to Hell—but they know that they know that they know there is not the slightest chance that they will go to Hell. As the old saying goes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. I think wailing and gnashing of teeth is what happens when the absolutely certain and supremely confident —like Leslie—get read their final death sentence and find out that 95 percent of what they believed—along with their spiritual arrogance and the pain they caused others—was just plain wrong and nothing like the mind of Jesus.

      Hopefully, Jesus will be merciful with all of us because He is a much better guy than most of the fundies I have ever met.

      • Charles wrote “Hopefully, Jesus will be merciful with all of us because He is a much better guy than most of the fundies I have ever met.”

        I believe Jesus will read hearts and hopefully discover that all of our hearts turned to God, even if we were confused or worse by all the rhetoric around us.

        Here’s how I imagine it will be like when I get to heaven. I am going to be very surprised by who I see there. I imagine heaven is full of heretics who may have believed wrongly nonetheless believed. I believe heaven will be full of people who didn’t think they cared about Jesus, but loved as much of God as they could understand.

        God reads our hearts. Many of us are spurred by the Holy Spirit even when we don’t know it.

  17. Banished for good cause but stealing posts anyway, We did the right thing for our country by voting for Clinton. We don’t need your acceptance or tolerance, but it would be good for you if you had the graciousness and humility to give it and to understand that others see things differently than you do, and voted as they did for good reasons.

    Continue holding your grudge and wallowing in abortion-hatred to your own peril. It’s NOT what Jesus would have you do.

  18. With so much hatred on the hearts of mankind and contempt for others how can we not fail.
    A lustful people who just want vengeance and Thier own desires, not what is BEST , NOT What controls mans wicked heart and the lust with it.
    Mankind only want his, her , own way.
    Thats what this seems to be like.
    Read Between the lines of what really is being said.
    MY way , A Spoiled Rotten Child who doesnt even care what is Right, Just, True, in the best interest of all.
    Another Example of the Entitled , Selfish Gen x who will pay for this , and all other actions against God, Who By the Way is a HOLY , JUST God, NOT A self seeking, Pleasure Seeking , Vengeance seeking God.
    God is waiting , holding back judgement on all mankind until Death , Then you SEE TRUTH , God s Wrath on mankind. Until you die , then you or anyone else has to face Gods Justice.

  19. Thank you. My husband and I think this was perfect except with one thing. We believe they know exactly what they are doing and they don’t care. Peace and Love,

  20. I do something that is maybe odd when I read the comments on political posts like this. I imagine I am hearing the person’s voice. And when I read posts by people who are pushing back on Trump, something strange and kind of freaky happens.

    They all have the same voice in my mind.

    It’s a strident voice, an angry voice. It’s tinged with fear and self-righteous indignation, with overtones of disappointment and undertones of blind rage. There is resentment against the people who won when no one expected it. There is frustration at the sparks-flying wheel-screeching derailing of a train that had been building momentum for eight years. There is despair, and anguish, and a tiny thread of hope. If we push back hard enough and long enough, we might get our dream back.

    But it’s so weird. They all have the same voice. They’re all chanting in unison. They all say the same things, with the same tone, and the same intensity. It’s like they’re all possessed by the same demon.

    It’s kind of like what happens in mob violence. People get themselves worked up into a frenzy, and they feed off each other’s emotion. They do kind of get going in unison, and it is that unison that drives the mob. So it doesn’t have to be a literal demon — just a shared vibe, a common attitude, an intuitively understood emotional agenda.

    Though the Bible does say that “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” I kind of laugh, a gallows chuckle, when I think of one spirit whispering in the President’s ear — there’s your principalities — and another one whispering in his enemies’ ears — there’s your spiritual forces, or cosmic powers. I think to a certain extent that is a true picture. We all listen to the Dark Side on occasion, and you can’t really divorce that thought from the nasty things people are saying. There aren’t two Devils, or two kinds of bad.

    I used to be a progressive Christian, and a conservative one, too. But the politics of the past few years has me looking out my window a lot. I wonder how much longer we’re going to have the luxury of calling ourselves any kind of anything-Christian. My mind goes back to that Bonhoeffer ramble about his friend who wanted to be a saint.

    It’s kind of sad — really sad, actually — that I would use the word “enemies” about a political process. But that’s the word. We aren’t partisan any more. We’re polarized. The parties are quickly becoming an excuse. We are acting like enemies act, not like civil citizens of a republic. “Many shall fall away, and hate one another, and betray one another…”

    Go on with your progressive self, buddy. but “I have seen both Progress and Development in an egg. We call it Going Bad in Narnia.” I’m afraid the ship you’re on is sinking. Not because it’s liberal, but because it’s sailing on some flawed assumptions. I, too, have spent forty-some years travailing with these same issues. “I have not passed through fire and blood to bandy idle words with a witless worm,” and all that. But “I think we need to take the whole line back to formula.” Something weird is going on here, and I’m giving you a heads-up so you won’t be blindsided. Thanks, buddy.

  21. Coby, it is odd how you describe what you hear. It describes exactly what I hear when I hear a Trump crowd or when I talk to a Conservative friend who’s only comments are repetition of what I hear on Fox, whose scriptural references are all neatly lined up for their agenda. And when I hear my life-long Evangelical friends cheer for a man that represents nothing of our faith or Jesus, himself, yes, I feel betrayed. So, there we are.

  22. John, you are a ‘progressive liberal’ fool masquerading as a caring, believing pastor. I happen to like Mr. Trump and think he is doing a world of good for our country. In fact the more he upsets people like you, the more I realize he is doing something right! I happen to like Mr. Pence for standing up for his beliefs, which happen to be conservative. As it happens, apparently, most the rest of America agrees with me and we are damned sick and tired of mealy mouthed, whining liberals who apologize for America, who don’t stand on principles, unless they are completely back-ass stupid and anti-American. But to the point, if you don’t like Mr. Trump, then whom would you have vote for? Lying Hillary? The socialist flake Sanders?

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